== Meeting information == * #xubuntu-devel: Xubuntu council meeting, 23 Nov at 22:33 — 23:22 UTC * Full logs at [[http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2016/xubuntu-devel.2016-11-23-22.33.log.html]] == Meeting summary == === Council communication === The discussion about "Council communication" started at 22:36. * ''ACTION:'' knome to send a summary of the council communication discussion to the ML === Blog article about the council === The discussion about "Blog article about the council" started at 23:08. == Vote results == == Action items, by person == * knome * knome to send a summary of the council communication discussion to the ML == Done items == * (none) == People present (lines said) == * knome (91) * bluesabre (25) * ochosi (22) * flocculant (8) * meetingology (5) * slickymaster (5) * Unit193 (3) == Full Log == 22:33 #startmeeting Xubuntu council meeting 22:33 Meeting started Wed Nov 23 22:33:39 2016 UTC. The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. 22:33 22:33 Available commands: action commands idea info link nick 22:33 #chair ochosi bluesabre 22:33 Current chairs: bluesabre knome ochosi 22:33 woohoo 22:34 anything specific we want in the agenda? 22:34 nothing specific from me 22:35 whatie!?!?!?! 22:35 slickymaster? 22:35 meeting today? 22:35 slickymaster, council, impromptu 22:35 oh 22:35 sorry 22:35 but feel free to follow and comment if there's something 22:35 (surprise!) 22:35 ochosi, anything for the agenda? 22:36 the only specific thing i would like to finalize (although we have discussed it previously via email) is our communication channels 22:36 mhm 22:36 we can also discuss and finalize other generic stuff like voting 22:36 but my presumption is that it'll be the same as with general votes 22:36 my other item is the blog article for council that has been under work 22:36 ok, so 22:36 #topic Council communication 22:36 good 22:37 this has indeed been discussed before in council-exclusive emails, and the gist is: 22:37 (correct me if i'm wrong) 22:38 eugh, sorry for the delay 22:38 :) 22:38 so the basic gist: 22:39 - the council decides whether any discussion needs to be private, but mostly it will be public 22:39 - if a decision is made in private, the reasons behind the decision will still be made public 22:40 - the council will NOT have a separate mailing list (even a private one) for now 22:40 mmm 22:40 anything that needs clarification? 22:40 point 22:40 sure 22:40 i'd explicitely say that we'll use the xubuntu devel ml for now 22:40 not just "NO separate ml" 22:40 yeah, I'd agree with that 22:41 ochosi, well yeah, that's implied; we'll use the regular communication methods unless we want to discuss something in private 22:41 but ok 22:41 while I can understand not wanting to do the whole private m/l - that means that discussion that might be private are not ever available to council members in future 22:41 which could be an issue perhaps 22:41 flocculant, we did discuss that 22:41 it's actually very likely that kind of discussion would happen in IRC 22:41 so there would have to be some kind of logging for that 22:42 mmm 22:42 also, "the reasons behind the decision will still be made public" 22:42 well - I'm just making the point is all :) 22:42 this implies to me that not just the decision but also the gist of the discussion shall be made public 22:42 flocculant, sure, wanted to let you know that we did indeed think about it 22:42 ochosi: not sure that makes a lot of difference 22:42 ochosi, indeed 22:43 anyway - point made :) 22:43 point taken 22:43 ochosi, wasn't that what we agreed on? 22:43 knome: yup, just wanted to say it expressis verbis 22:43 Do we want to utilize a tag when communicated over the mailing list, e.g. [COUNCIL] to make it easier to sort out historical discussion? 22:43 again, obviously if it's anything that requires keeping stuff private for intimacy reasons, then it's not going to be released 22:44 bluesabre, that sounds like we should just create that mailing list :P 22:44 and flocculant's point on the -offtopic channel speaks for that too 22:44 knome, yeah, but we also use [TEAM] for team discussion on the devel list 22:44 in any case, i don't think that list will be very high traffic 22:45 (or have in the past) 22:45 bluesabre, i don't think we'd take "council discussion" to the mailing list 22:45 i mean... 22:45 again, it feels like it's more suited for IRC and real-time 22:45 so it would be more, announcements from the council 22:45 yes 22:45 that's reasonable 22:46 and those announcements do not concern the council only, they are whole project, so i'm not sure what the council tag would be for 22:46 "this is what the council will force on you all" 22:46 :P 22:46 "Ugh, another COUNCIL email" 22:46 (no, please not like that, i want the council to be as transparent and at the same level as the team9 22:46 right 22:47 yeah 22:47 so most (if not all) council communication occurs on #xubuntu-devel, announcements are made to the -devel m/l 22:47 to me the council is also a safety net against the "single point of failure" XPL 22:48 so, 22:48 should it all be expressed this way: 22:48 so not that much active "council stuff" is going to go down in my expectation at least 22:48 That's how I also understand it 22:48 - council will do any discussion-like communication on IRC, announcements and requests for feedback on -devel 22:48 that is, for THIS council setup 22:49 this isn't something we'll write on the strategy document 22:49 (but maybe we should consider adding something general there about the public/private discussion part) 22:50 you mean to not prevent future councils to take a more proactive approach..? 22:50 * knome shrugs 22:50 largely to just have an official statement on these things should questions or eyebrows be raised 22:51 why do we have a strategy document if the strategy is whatever the majority of currently active people agree on? 22:51 of course future councils or whatever can just change the section on the SD 22:52 certainly 22:53 ok, so 22:53 1) most discussion is public, private only if the council feels it's required for the issue at hand 22:55 2) if discussion is private, any decisions and the rationale for the decision will be made public, unless making the rational public would infringe personal privacy or something alike 22:56 3) council discussion will mostly be had in IRC; the xubuntu-devel mailing list is used for any council announcements and requests for feedback 22:56 4) council announcements will also be announced on the community meetings 22:56 sounds good to me 22:57 5) the council will have scheduled and/or impromptu meetings on #xubuntu-devel; the meeting minutes (and logs) will be sent to the xubuntu-devel mailing list 22:57 phew 22:59 did somebody want to mull over the public/private discussion issue and the decision making leading to a private one? 22:59 eg. do we need to express more clearly that the council will not take discussions private unless the council really thinks privacy requires it or it is a really sensitive issue otherwise? 23:00 apparently not 23:00 #action knome to send a summary of the council communication discussion to the ML 23:00 * meetingology knome to send a summary of the council communication discussion to the ML 23:00 anything that even suggests a lack of transparency or openness is generally going to be frowned upon 23:00 knome: Only thing I can think of is sending the private logs to the team server so that they're more archived for later council members. 23:01 Unit193, right, the only "issue" with that is that people not in the council have access to that 23:01 again, not a statement of trust issues, but it's not foolproof 23:01 Indeed, thought of that. 23:01 also, does ochosi have access to the server? 23:01 or bluesabre? 23:02 nope 23:02 nope 23:02 not that i know of 23:02 so again if we want to do something like this, i'd just vote for creating that mailing list 23:02 certainly not the council server :D 23:02 and sending the meeting logs to the council ML 23:02 the ownership of a ML is easy to transfer when the council seats change 23:02 I think that the ability of those logs being available to future councilmembers is important, imo 23:03 you think, in your opinion 23:03 i'd never thought of that 23:03 *trollface* 23:03 knome: Was just an idea as a way to archive them, though yeah it's a bit moot if you do setup the ML after all. 23:04 i mean instead of doing the weird server setup, just do it on the ML - don't even need to use that for anything else 23:04 there is no guarantee that the xubuntu devel server will always exist 23:04 yeah 23:06 so at this point i see no reason to set up anything like this 23:06 -- however, if a private discussion is needed, the council should reasses the situation 23:06 +s 23:07 ok, i think that's clear now :P 23:07 anything else on this subject? 23:08 nope 23:08 i think this is fine 23:08 #topic Blog article about the council 23:09 without further ado, we have one under draft at http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-council-article 23:09 we probably want "something personal" there too about the council members 23:11 I can agree with that 23:12 I'm also for having this in general for our team for anybody that wants to put their name on the site or wiki 23:12 there have been talks about an "introducing the xubuntu team" article series for ever... 23:13 so anyway, we can likely continue working on that article outside of the official meeting 23:14 does anybody have any ideas what we should/could have there? 23:15 to me the structure and content looks fine 23:15 we can finalize this outside the meeting 23:15 oki 23:16 anything else? 23:16 nope, fine by me 23:16 I think we're good with that 23:17 so anything else on anything else? 23:18 does the general public have any questions for the council? 23:18 :P 23:18 I don't think so... I can imagine that our activity (as a single acting body) will be incredibly rare 23:22 Any questions can be directed to the mailing list and added to the Meetings discussion to be picked up as we go 23:22 yes 23:22 thanks 23:22 #endmeeting Generated by MeetBot 0.1.5 (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology)