20:00 <krytarik> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
20:00 <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 26 20:00:01 2016 UTC.  The chair is krytarik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
20:00 <meetingology> 
20:00 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
20:00 <krytarik> Howdy and welcome to the Xubuntu community meeting.  Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
20:00 <krytarik> So anyone here?
20:00 <Unit193> o/
20:00 <bluesabre> o/
20:00 <akxwi-dave> o7
20:01 <krytarik> #topic Open action items
20:01 <knome> o/
20:01 <krytarik> I just see items from knome and ochosi here.
20:02 <knome> that's all done
20:02 <flocculant> wut
20:02 <knome> except the jenkins stuff from ochosi
20:02 <flocculant> why's krytarik running the meeting lol
20:03 <bluesabre> krytarik is Unit193 currently, maybe
20:03 <pleia2> ohi
20:04 <krytarik> knome: 'initialize voting on the council proposal on devel ML (week from now)' too?
20:04 <knome> yes, the council proposal...
20:04 <knome> not the council
20:04 <knome> note that the last meeting was in may
20:05 <krytarik> Okay, we can carry on unless you'd like to #done something.
20:05 <flocculant> I think we are surely now in a place to move on?
20:05 <knome> let's move on..
20:05 <flocculant> eg my last mail on that
20:05 <bluesabre> let me know what I can do to move that forward
20:05 <flocculant> no no knome
20:05 <knome> wut? :)
20:05 <bluesabre> if anything
20:05 <flocculant> not move on - but move on on the council thing :)
20:06 <flocculant> we have their approval
20:06 <knome> yes, move on the council, and move on on the meeting too
20:06 <krytarik> #topic Updates and Announcements
20:06 <flocculant> og good lord
20:06 <krytarik> Next one I see is in Aug, FF so nothing soon.
20:07 <bluesabre> ochosi is wrapping up the gtk 3.20 Greybird port
20:07 <knome> bluesabre, #info?
20:07 <bluesabre> #info ochosi is wrapping up the gtk 3.20 Greybird port
20:07 <krytarik> Oh, and Debian picked up the Shimmer themes, splitting them out into separate packages.
20:08 <bluesabre> #info GTK 3.20 will be included in yakkety probably sometime next week
20:08 <bluesabre> aiui
20:08 <krytarik> #topic Discussion items
20:08 <krytarik> #subtopic Xubuntu QA (flocculant)
20:10 <flocculant> so what's happening about the council thing then?
20:10 <knome> flocculant, the list of tasks you posted on the mailing list
20:11 <krytarik> flocculant: That can be the next topic, if knome has something.
20:11 <flocculant> knome: ok
20:11 <flocculant> krytarik: ok
20:11 <knome> flocculant, i mean, i thought we had set the plans up already, we even have a blueprint :)
20:11 <flocculant> yea right ... blueprints ....
20:11 <flocculant> ok
20:11 <bluesabre> :)
20:12 <flocculant> so QA thing is pretty simple - I assume people present have read the mail?
20:12 <krytarik> Yes.
20:12 <bluesabre> yes
20:12 <flocculant> for the records in irc
20:12 <flocculant> I need a break.
20:12 <flocculant> Team have been sent a private mail atm detailing that.
20:13 <flocculant> I've not completely gone - in fact I will be here as much as I am now.
20:13 * pleia2 hugs flocculant
20:13 <knome> ack
20:13 <pleia2> breaks are good
20:13 <knome> flocculant, thanks for *everything* you have done so far
20:13 <pleia2> indeed!
20:13 <flocculant> but I'll not be mving things in the zeppedy zaphod zycle
20:13 <bluesabre> +10000
20:13 <knome> (and sorry for being too ignorant at times - probably more often than not)
20:13 <akxwi-dave> sorry hexchat had crashed
20:14 <knome> akxwi-dave, no problem... you just dodged a lot of things being auto-assigned to you :P
20:14 <flocculant> I'm happy to come back - but the remaining members of team need to decide that with akxwi-dave
20:14 <knome> (just kidding)
20:14 <akxwi-dave> :-)
20:14 <pleia2> wb akxwi-dave
20:14 <akxwi-dave> ok seems missed a bit
20:14 <flocculant> it *is* a poisoned-chalice
20:14 <flocculant> akxwi-dave: not really
20:14 <knome> so to have some kind of plan
20:15 <knome> we're participating in beta2, right?
20:15 <flocculant> akxwi-dave: you have the irc pm and mail I assume
20:15 <flocculant> knome: I'll be here till the end of YY
20:15 <flocculant> that's why I am doing this now :)
20:15 <bluesabre> knome: yes for B2
20:15 <flocculant> so we can plan ;)
20:15 <akxwi-dave> hey if I can survive 25 years of marriage ... :-)
20:15 <knome> flocculant, sure :)
20:15 <bluesabre> flocculant: much appreciated
20:15 <akxwi-dave> yes got  the email anmd your pm this dinner
20:15 <flocculant> 2 seconds here
20:15 <bluesabre> 1
20:15 <bluesabre> 2
20:16 <bluesabre> :D
20:16 <flocculant> just want people to understand that I am still here - and depending on what we do for the next cycle - I'll be about as needed
20:16 <knome> mhm
20:16 <bluesabre> sounds reasonable to me
20:16 <knome> indeed
20:17 <flocculant> I don't care what we do - either muddle along for a cycle, let Dave run it, don't
20:17 * bluesabre gears up for unending development next cycle
20:17 <flocculant> I'm cool with it all
20:17 <knome> re: plan, if there's anybody that is interested in running qa stuff with flocculant this cycle, and potentially leading next cycle, now's a good time to talk :)
20:17 <knome> *cough* akxwi-dave *cough*
20:17 <knome> ;P
20:18 <flocculant> I'll be about for the next cycle still unless it all looks better - at which point there's no point in going backwARDS
20:18 <akxwi-dave> ohhhh ok as long as you get me that kfc
20:18 <flocculant> oops
20:18 <flocculant> heh
20:18 <krytarik> Doesn't QA currently contain flocculant, akxwi-dave, and slickymaster?
20:19 <knome> i'm on the team as well... granted, not very active
20:19 <bluesabre> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-qa/+members#active
20:20 <knome> though i try to see my position to be an enabler... eg. making sure QA can have stuff they want on the status tracker
20:20 <knome> (where possible and realistic)
20:20 * knome saves his bottom ^
20:20 <akxwi-dave> good getout
20:20 * bluesabre claps
20:20 <flocculant> just for the record
20:21 <flocculant> QA as active is akxwi-dave and me
20:21 <knome> yeah, slickymaster has been away from all stuff lately, even docs
20:21 <flocculant> but akxwi-dave has been rather trained in the last few months :P
20:22 <flocculant> he would certainly get a vote from me as a team member
20:22 <knome> i'd agree with that
20:22 <bluesabre> same here
20:22 <flocculant> and he would certainly get all the help he needed from me
20:22 <akxwi-dave> Well, from me, I would be willing to stand in for a cycle, until flocculant come to his senses and comes back
20:22 <flocculant> but
20:22 <pleia2> akxwi-dave: \o/
20:22 <knome> indeed, huzzah for akxwi-dave
20:23 <bluesabre> and flocculant!
20:23 <knome> yes
20:23 <flocculant> if after doing it for a cycle - and deciding he wanted to carry on - I would not ever be in for any sort of fight
20:23 <knome> hahah :)
20:23 <flocculant> bluesabre: he's obviusly already got my vote ;)
20:24 <flocculant> I'd then leave team of course
20:24 <krytarik> I'm pretty sure he has everyone's vote.  I thought he was in team.
20:24 * bluesabre looks to train flocculant for dev next cycle
20:25 <knome> krytarik, that's because he is.
20:25 <knome> ;)
20:25 <akxwi-dave> :-)
20:25 <krytarik> Oh good, so my memory is only half failing.
20:25 * krytarik hides.
20:25 <flocculant> krytarik: he is in team - that was the WHOLE point of -qa
20:25 <knome> bluesabre, not the right time to say this, but i wrote my first (working) python script today...
20:25 <flocculant> krytarik: now I'm really not sure which you are lol
20:25 <bluesabre> knome: congrats!
20:26 <knome> \o/
20:26 <akxwi-dave> grats as well
20:26 <krytarik> So looks like nothing more on this topic.
20:26 <flocculant> akxwi-dave: you need to sort out irc constant to deal with the non-yorkshire people :p
20:27 <flocculant> krytarik: one more thing
20:27 <akxwi-dave> :-)
20:28 <akxwi-dave> starts to look for his rasp-pi
20:28 <flocculant> can people please give akxwi-dave more real support than I have had when it really matters, I cannot say this enough nor loud enough - but if QA asks people to test something and people from Xubuntu Team don't bother - why the hell should they? It REALLY is not rocket science.
20:29 <flocculant> krytarik: and now you can move on ;)
20:29 <pleia2> I'll continue to do my best
20:29 <knome> same here - and i think that's the most one can promise...
20:29 <flocculant> pleia2 and everyone else: everyone does - but it is usually about 5% - you can test an iso in a vm
20:30 <krytarik> And of course, try to remember to report when you do.
20:30 <flocculant> or it is pointless
20:30 <knome> i always report when my test is appropriate for testing
20:30 <krytarik> No other topics?  If not, announcements.
20:31 <flocculant> did we briefly brush over not getting anywhere with council ?
20:31 <knome> what we should try to do is getting random "testers" do valid tests and report them instead of telling us "it works" on the mailing list or social media
20:31 <knome> (but it's easier said than done)
20:32 <pleia2> or "it doesn't work but I don't want to submit a bug report" on list :\
20:32 <pleia2> not sure what to do with that
20:32 <knome> flocculant, i'd still say the roadmap for that is in our knowledge, and now we just need to do things as we got the ACK from CC
20:32 <knome> flocculant, i've been AFK and busy so haven't been able to work on it after the ack, but i'll be on it as soon as i have time
20:32 <pleia2> thanks knome
20:33 <flocculant> knome: yea ok but
20:33 <knome> for the record:
20:33 <knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2016-July/011231.html
20:33 <knome> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-y-council
20:33 <flocculant> afaik we need to do the things I said then - shouldn't be hard
20:34 <knome> flocculant, nope
20:34 <flocculant> and I think we need to action them
20:34 <flocculant> and
20:34 <flocculant> pointless action anyone but knome for item 1 or it will just be interminable discussion and mails till it does
20:34 <flocculant> so
20:35 <flocculant> action knome point 1
20:35 <flocculant> I am happy to argue once we have draft :p
20:36 <bluesabre> :)
20:36 <flocculant> possibly worded that harshly
20:37 <flocculant> not what I meant at all lol
20:37 <knome> np
20:37 <bluesabre> I think it's understood
20:37 <bluesabre> progress is +1
20:37 <knome> yep
20:37 <flocculant> well it is - just didn't meant it to sound harsh - the sentiment is right :)
20:38 <flocculant> if Xubuntu hasn't sorted this thing out soon, then I will nominate and then not be able to vote ;)
20:38 <flocculant> and it should be easy
20:38 <flocculant> really easy
20:38 <knome> i think we all agree on the general direction, and just need the more literal version for the strategy document
20:39 <flocculant> I did similar with the forum and that had 200k currents
20:39 <knome> once somebody (who can be me or somebody else) has the time to write that down, i think it's another easy vote
20:39 <flocculant> knome: yea - it's about bullet points from the mail I am sure
20:39 <knome> yep
20:39 <flocculant> in order
20:40 <flocculant> so 'power of statement' dilutes
20:40 <flocculant> the power should always lay in the hands of 'team'
20:41 <flocculant> they 'give' council power and should be able to wrest it away in times of duress
20:41 <flocculant> everything else should be 'tasks'
20:43 <flocculant> does that make sense to people?
20:43 <flocculant> cos - all quiet ....
20:44 <akxwi-dave> sorry taking a long drink of IPA
20:44 <knome> i'm having problems focusing because $other_things
20:44 <akxwi-dave> and yes..
20:44 <knome> (which is why a long pause in replying too)
20:44 <pleia2> I admit, I wasn't really prepared for this topic
20:45 <bluesabre> sounds reasonable
20:45 <pleia2> so I'll reread things to catch up, but it's hard for me to speak to anything right now
20:45 <flocculant> pleia2: it's been bubbling around for ages
20:45 <pleia2> flocculant: yes, I know, which is why I don't know what the state is
20:45 <knome> the state was "waiting on CC's ACK" for a long time, like a few weeks
20:45 <flocculant> pleia2: though it's not stated specifically
20:46 <knome> and as everybody agreed with the general direction, i don't know why they wouldn't agree with the final literal form
20:46 <flocculant> pleia2: recenttish was ack
20:46 <knome> i mean, i don't intend to add or remove any subject matter to/from it
20:46 <flocculant> but then there has been no response from anyone at all for 4 days
20:46 <flocculant> at all
20:47 <flocculant> hard to know if that's a
20:47 <knome> if somebody thinks something should be done, then they should have raised up concerns earlier, or do it now
20:47 <flocculant> carry on
20:47 <flocculant> sto]
20:47 <flocculant> stop
20:47 <flocculant> pleia2: and I don't mean that I expect immediate responses either
20:48 <pleia2> oh, I assumed we were just moving forward, my slience was assent
20:48 <flocculant> but neither have we had any 'wth is going on' responses
20:48 <pleia2> we have a blueprint for this, it's moving in the correct direction
20:48 <flocculant> pleia2: I played that game with the FC :p
20:48 <flocculant> hence the portion you liked ;)
20:48 <akxwi-dave> same here I assumed we were waiting for the time to nominate announcement
20:49 <flocculant> knome: then I will take that as a +1 to doing strat doc changes
20:49 <flocculant> can we has vote here please
20:50 <flocculant> I'd like to know how long we should wait for a null to taken as a positive for any changes
20:50 <knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2016-May/011194.html
20:51 <flocculant> knome: so how long sensibly to get an agreed change between us for SD? 2 weeks?
20:51 <pleia2> I guess I'm just used to blueprint items moving along without revoting
20:51 <pleia2> I thought it was implied that we move along to the strategy document updates, again, I thought it was pretty much finaized
20:51 <knome> nobody replied to that, so i take the team is OK with somebody doing the writing part
20:51 <pleia2> knome: nods
20:51 <flocculant> pleia2: except we've not really used them for cycle(s)
20:51 <knome> and now that CC ack'd our draft, there's no blocked in doing that
20:52 <pleia2> flocculant: I still use them :\
20:52 <knome> now we only need somebody to have time to write it
20:52 <flocculant> knome: do you think we can do our bit by eow?
20:52 <knome> we did use blueprints heavily last cycle; this cycle has been very slow generally, and not much has happened, which is why blueprints haven't got too much love either
20:52 <knome> i can't promise anything either way
20:52 <flocculant> ok
20:52 <knome> but it's possible, given that things don't go too much south
20:53 <pleia2> thanks for trying, knome
20:53 <knome> i should be "back at the office" next week, so at latest then i'll have time to work on that too
20:53 <flocculant> so we'll just have another meeting then
20:53 <flocculant> knome: ack - not pressuring you here - just you know :)
20:53 <knome> again it's just a task of making a bullet point list literal
20:53 <knome> no worries
20:53 <knome> if somebody else feels like doing it, go for it
20:54 <flocculant> knome: if you want me to take ti with someone else?
20:54 <flocculant> I've got time
20:54 <knome> (we'll likely end up doing one or two wording changes anyway, so no need to feel like to have to be perfect the first time)
20:54 <flocculant> yea yea
20:54 <knome> sure, it's up for "anybody" to pick up (assigned to -team)
20:54 <flocculant> has to be someone fairly active
20:55 <flocculant> e.g. people talking :p
20:55 <knome> well anyway,
20:55 <akxwi-dave> speak to me in morning on irc and ill see if i can jumo in and help with it
20:55 <flocculant> bluesabre: do you have time?
20:55 <flocculant> akxwi-dave: okey doke
20:55 <knome> let's not stretch the meeting... we can figure out schedules with people after it :)
20:55 <bluesabre> flocculant: yup
20:56 <bluesabre> I'm on vacation this week, but generally available at most times or can make myself available
20:56 <knome> yeah, i'm technically on paternity leave this week as well (if my application is approved)
20:56 <flocculant> akxwi-dave: not dissing you, thanks for the offer, if I take this with bluesabre - it'll not be QA orientated :p
20:57 <akxwi-dave> flocculant, no probs mate just wanted to help out if no one else available
20:57 <flocculant> howabout if we action bluesabre flocculant : reword SD for Council
20:57 <akxwi-dave> +1  from me..
20:58 <krytarik> #action bluesabre and flocculant to reword the SD to formalize the council.
20:58 * meetingology bluesabre and flocculant to reword the SD to formalize the council.
20:58 <flocculant> then move next meeting from slickymaster to either me or bluesabre and we can report it
20:58 <bluesabre> alrighty
20:58 <flocculant> s/it/in
20:59 <flocculant> does that make sense?
20:59 <flocculant> I just want this to be sorted out asawc
20:59 <flocculant> \o/
20:59 <krytarik> Not sure if it matters who is running, but flocculant you're before bluesabre.
21:00 <knome> flocculant, just put it in a pad, and point me to it when you work on it and i might pokey poke it.
21:00 <flocculant> yea I read :)
21:00 <flocculant> yup
21:00 <knome> (if you want extra set of eyes)
21:00 <flocculant> bluesabre: as you are now 'Day' could you start in a pad?
21:01 <flocculant> if -team fiddle can they at least let us know how did stuff~?
21:01 <krytarik> flocculant: Details after the meeting?
21:01 <flocculant> krytarik: ack
21:01 <krytarik> #topic Announcements
21:01 <krytarik> flocculant to schedule next meeting
21:01 <krytarik> Anything else?
21:01 <bluesabre> #info upcoming date, Feature Freeze August 18th
21:02 <bluesabre> nothing more from me
21:02 <akxwi-dave> or me
21:03 <krytarik> #endmeeting