== Meeting information == * #xubuntu-devel Meeting, 30 Jan at 15:00 — 16:08 UTC * Full logs at [[http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2015/xubuntu-devel.2015-01-30-15.00.log.html]] == Meeting summary == === Open action items === The discussion about "Open action items" started at 15:02. * ''ACTION:'' pleia2 to mail list to kick off discussion about default office applications * ''ACTION:'' elfy to mail list about removing games from default install * ''ACTION:'' elfy to mail list re user poll === Team Updates === The discussion about "Team Updates" started at 15:05. * knome worked on the website refresh * QA has seen a new name floating about on tracker post- QA incentive blog * not a great deal of testing reported though * knome and slickymaster started working on the installer slideshow update * ''LINK:'' http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-1504-slideshow === announcements === The discussion about "announcements" started at 15:20. === Discussion === The discussion about "Discussion" started at 15:26. * '''Discuss participating in the weekly Community Q&A sessions''' (15:26) * ''LINK:'' http://ubuntuonair.com/calendar/ * ''ACTION:'' knome to send an email about community Q&A participation * '''Finalise User identifies as poll options''' (15:35) * ''LINK:'' http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-user-identifies-as * ''ACTION:'' knome to schedule a meeting for poll improving * '''Discuss games in default install following m/l thread''' (15:51) * ''ACTION:'' elfy to mail list (TEAM) for suggestions on new games for the default * ''ACTION:'' knome to send an email about ISO size target(s) * ''ACTION:'' bluesabre to set up next meeting == Vote results == == Action items, by person == * bluesabre * bluesabre to set up next meeting * elfy * elfy to mail list (TEAM) for suggestions on new games for the default * knome * knome to send an email about community Q&A participation * knome to schedule a meeting for poll improving * knome to send an email about ISO size target(s) == Done items == * pleia2 to mail list to kick off discussion about default office applications * elfy to mail list about removing games from default install * elfy to mail list re user poll == People present (lines said) == * knome (199) * elfy (95) * ochosi (86) * slickymasterWork (47) * meetingology (11) * bluesabre (3) * ganglere (1) * ubottu (1) * vforberger (1) * baffledbear (1) == Full Log == 15:00 #startmeeting 15:00 Meeting started Fri Jan 30 15:00:04 2015 UTC. The chair is elfy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. 15:00 15:00 Available commands: action commands idea info link nick 15:00 !team | so who's about? 15:00 so who's about?: bluesabre, elfy, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193 15:00 o/ 15:01 :) 15:02 Not a team member, but I'm happy to sit in 15:02 welcome - it is a community meeting :) 15:02 #topic Open action items 15:03 welcome ganglere 15:03 o/ 15:03 o/ 15:03 I'll also be sitting in, except for that bit where I'm at a standup 15:03 * knome lies 15:03 welcome baffledbear too 15:03 figure out what that implies 15:03 ;) 15:03 I think pleia2 is away - but I know she did what she was listed as having to do 15:03 pants on fire knome? 15:04 and I did the ones I was going to do 15:04 good good, #done them then 15:04 #done pleia2 to mail list to kick off discussion about default office applications 15:04 #done elfy to mail list about removing games from default install 15:04 #done elfy to mail list re user poll 15:05 yea - was looking to see if I needed to ochosi :) 15:05 #topic Team Updates 15:05 #done knome updated the Processes page with up-to-date QA process descriptions 15:05 #done knome designed certificates for the QA incentive programme (and more) 15:05 #info knome worked on the website refresh 15:05 #info QA has seen a new name floating about on tracker post- QA incentive blog 15:06 #info not a great deal od testing reported though 15:06 #undo 15:06 Removing item from minutes: INFO 15:06 i did one 15:06 #info not a great deal of testing reported though 15:06 knome: I know :) 15:06 and about to do more 15:06 #info knome and slickymaster started working on the installer slideshow update 15:06 i have a laptop for testing available now 15:06 http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-1504-slideshow 15:06 ^ that's the drafting pad 15:07 :P 15:07 knome beat me 15:07 i've also done some PoC things, the branch is at lp:~knome/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/1504-changes 15:07 * ochosi looks at pad 15:07 these include: a "searchable" whiskermenu 15:07 inside the slideshow, that is, with predefined application targets 15:07 and some unbelievable features yet to came ;) 15:08 a slide that cycles through wallpapers 15:08 and showing application paths on hover only (to save space) 15:08 mhm, sounds nice 15:09 i'll have to update the branch, i've a local copy of the whiskermenu slide done where i've laid out the menu on top of a screenshot 15:09 so it looks better 15:09 and non-case-sensitive search too 15:09 and with icons... 15:09 sweet 15:10 that does all sound rather good :) 15:10 pushed that right now, so if you branch/pull again, you'll see that too 15:10 yeah, i'm looking forward to having both an updated website and an updated slideshow 15:10 our idea is to somoe how port this interactivity concept also for some other slides 15:11 at least Make the desktop your own and Personalize your computer 15:11 great 15:11 yep, i think the slideshow has served its purpose well, but otoh, it has been quite boring 15:11 or become that 15:11 would you go for a bigger default window size then? 15:11 and perhaps join those two making just one out of them 15:11 probably not... 15:11 i'm even thinking smaller to fit all netbook monitors better and such 15:11 i'm wondering whether it would be possible (i mean it should be, inside ubiquity's code) to query the size of the screen and just always use 3/4 of it 15:12 and then make the slides responsive 15:12 considering the slideshow width is defined in the static CSS file... i really aren't sure of that 15:13 and in a configuration file too, now that i think of it 15:13 [Slideshow] 15:13 width:750 15:13 height:420 15:13 no units 15:13 (not even 193) 15:14 ochosi, you might want to change that color that hurts my eyes on the pad 15:14 yeah, i think we'd need some internal changes in ubiquity to make that possible 15:14 yes 15:14 i might mention it to xnox though 15:14 sure 15:15 i'd be up for making our slideshow responsive at least 15:15 it doesn't really need much though 15:15 That'd be cool 15:16 Hi all, around very briefly 15:16 (Sorry) 15:16 btw, that isn't really a team update, but since that was brought up today (and i followed up on it), there are no plans to remove the notification shown on the scroll-even of indicator-sound (despite that one commit suggesting it). just the configuration option for it will be dropped 15:16 if you make it smaller to fit netbook monitors isn't it going to end up looking swamped on bigger ones 15:16 bluesabre: hi - and sorry - I did mean to do this when you're about :( you're up next time though \o/ 15:16 elfy, depends if it looks swamped on netbooks :) 15:17 i'm not proposing to do the same amount of information on a smaller size 15:17 just adjust all that and make the slideshow work with less 15:17 (and show more of the information on interaction, if useful) 15:17 yep 15:17 just one thing re the use of wallpapers knome mentioned 15:17 ochosi: I got that I think a short while ago btw 15:18 ochosi, do you think it's possible to coordinate the wallpaper contest calendar deadline with the Documentation String Freeze so the winning wallpapers could be added to the slideshow? 15:18 if we organize a contest, that is 15:19 besides serving our purpose it would also serve as a extra reward for the applicants 15:19 exactly knome 15:19 bit late for this cycle isn't it? 15:19 ^ and a great way to liven up and make the slideshow look fresh 15:19 elfy, for LTS 15:19 ok 15:19 probably not going to do a contest on regular releases anyway 15:19 yeah 15:19 too much work tbh 15:20 yes, with LTS in mind 15:20 i mean if somebody else wants to organise it, i won't object 15:20 i might, just for the laughs. 15:20 anymore updates from anyone? 15:20 i don't think so 15:20 lol 15:20 let's move forward so we can get stuff discussed today :P 15:20 moving on then 15:20 nothing from me 15:20 #topic announcements 15:21 I've got nothing 15:21 me neither 15:21 anyone ? 15:21 nope 15:21 one more thing 15:21 knome: since we're talking team updates, how's it going with the wallpaper? any ETA on that? 15:21 hr hrr 15:22 i just noticed that because i was looking at our overall progress and there are some blueprints that are lagging behind 15:22 artwork being one of them 15:22 well, and website and marketing 15:22 dev wallpaper you'll get before beta 1, final before ui freeze 15:23 mkay 15:23 before meaning i will consider that it will take time to land 15:23 and upload and such 15:23 i mean tbh it's a bit late already this cycle for it, i also considered postponing it 15:23 dev wall? works for me 15:23 but then again, since you've already worked on it and we only need to upload it once... 15:23 i'll let you decide once it's ready 15:23 b1 is about 2 weeks away 15:24 i mean i'd personally install it in a new folder somewhere so we only have to flip a config-switch as soon as we're post-release again 15:24 and re: website/marketing blueprints, there are many things that are almost ready, and that most of those are not related to the release cycle 15:24 meaning it'll be easier to catch up with those once we start hitting freezes that slow down other progress 15:25 ok 15:25 it's impossible to estimate it, but it isn't many things i need to do before we can ask IS to push the first take on the new website live 15:25 yeah, i appreciate that those aren't release-critical 15:26 *estimate the time to get the tasks done 15:26 alrighty 15:26 let's move on then... 15:26 besides, there are things like "enable translations" 15:26 #topic Discussion 15:26 (^ a bug, so can't mark postponed without dropping the bug from the blueprint) 15:26 #subtopic Discuss participating in the weekly Community Q&A sessions 15:27 knome: this was your baby afaik 15:27 yep 15:27 http://ubuntuonair.com/calendar/ 15:27 so basically, we have an invitation from daniel holbach... is anybody interested to join some of those? 15:27 for when these things are - which appears to be 1600 UTC Tuesdays 15:27 * elfy is generally driving at that time 15:27 if we schedule three sessions per cycle, that means once every two months - and can be different person participating 15:28 technically, it's a google hangout, so you'll have to release your or your cats face 15:28 lol 15:28 that's on hangouts right? 15:28 google hangout... didn't i say that? 15:28 :) 15:28 you said technically so someone might think not :p 15:28 yeah knome, but I'm Alt_tab'ing 15:29 slickymasterWork, ;) 15:29 elfy, heh, i meant "the technical context is..." 15:29 so, that's a no go for me, don't have the required, and needed hardware to be able to attend 15:29 eg. it's not organized in knome's moms tearoom with limited access to elderly people only 15:30 slickymasterWork, if hardware is the issue, we can organize funding from the canonical community fund, or our fund if they think it's stupid. 15:30 slickymasterWork, but if you just rather would not do that, it's ok as well 15:30 slickymasterWork, that being participating, not applying for funds, i can do that ;) 15:30 lol, this is a government agency, theoretically I can't bring outside equipment 15:30 I'd be in that category if I wasn't driving ... 15:31 slickymasterWork, aha, so the time is also a problem 15:31 not as much 15:31 slickymasterWork, as...? 15:32 it's weekly, so we might be able to ask people to organize one of the hangouts on a weekend as well 15:32 or some other time that would work for anybody participating 15:32 ... as being able to get a camera and a microphone and use them here 15:32 afaik they do them during their working day 15:32 knome: ^^ 15:32 i generally think this is a good initiative/idea, but then again i'm already quite swamped with many other things and don't feel like taking on another responsibility 15:32 well yeah, that's really it 15:32 if nobody can/wants to do it, then let it be so 15:33 elfy, yep... 15:33 we could also take that to the ML 15:33 elfy, so the community means the community that can contribute when the canonical employees are at work :P 15:33 although i guess having someone from -team do it would be good 15:33 lol knome 15:33 yes, i would say it would have to be a team member that participated for xubuntu 15:34 and i believe that's their thought as well, it's not a users hangout 15:34 yea 15:34 (users can participate by asking) 15:34 hangouters should be participating by answering... 15:34 anyway, 15:34 #action knome to send an email about community Q&A participation 15:34 * meetingology knome to send an email about community Q&A participation 15:35 thanks knome 15:35 that way it'll be archived sensbily 15:35 even if nobody wanted to do it now 15:35 yep 15:35 np 15:35 sensibly too 15:35 move o 15:35 *on 15:35 #subtopic Finalise User identifies as poll options 15:35 http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-user-identifies-as 15:36 so there's this poll which Marketing want to run 15:36 i think we should set up a team that goes through this, creates a poll, and then can run it through the team 15:36 I took the original pad contents and cleaned them up a bit 15:36 did we ask for feedback on this already? 15:36 from the list - via the pad 15:37 (we did...) 15:37 slickymasterWork and you did :) 15:37 so here's my feedback (having been working on the original pad) 15:37 setting up a team makes sense 15:37 the first question seems good to me 15:37 though i'm not really sure what we are trying to gain with that question 15:38 what did I do enterprisedc ? 15:38 sorry, this thing TTL'd on me 15:38 the second question is questionable (no pun intended) in my opinion, do we really want to ask/know the *profession* of people? 15:39 the main issue i see with the questionnaire is some duplication, like "how do you use xubuntu" is asked in several ways 15:39 I'd not want to know 15:39 and/or is that important when wanting to identify people 15:39 ah ok, the users poll 15:39 the last question is in my opinion the best one 15:39 that's not as quantitive as the others, but i think it gets us the best bang for the buck, so to speak... 15:40 you mean what ppl use the internet for? 15:40 or whether ppl customize 15:40 do you strongly agree/strongly disagree with the following statements? (cut or reword some of these) 15:40 the whole list after that 15:40 ah 15:40 so we could cut the middle bit out 15:40 yeah, i think that list is ok 15:40 i think that answer the question of "how do you identify" the best 15:41 but there is some duplication going on there 15:41 sure... 15:41 but that's okay 15:41 they aren't an either/or question 15:41 and it doesn't matter if there is overlap 15:41 each answer can be handled individually 15:41 yeah, i know 15:41 those questions also implicitely identify "personas" or "usage profiles", and probably more clearly than by just asking for it directly 15:41 if 80% of the survey takers identify with any answer, that's a good sign 15:42 yes, so with that list.. 15:42 i'm not sure if the first one is needed either 15:42 i'd rather make that an optional question 15:42 or maybe the other "where and how" could be moved under that 15:42 the first? 15:42 yeah... 15:42 after the others 15:42 or the second? 15:43 i numbered the questions 15:43 so i would propose 2 comes first, and 1 then, and can be optional 15:43 yup 15:43 exactly 15:43 ok 15:43 works for me 15:44 age bracket should be optional, but is interesting 15:44 ochosi, what kind of bracket? 15:44 0-18, 18-29, 30-39, ... ? 15:44 yeah 15:44 btw, we might weave in a question about office tasks in 1) 15:44 i think that might be manageable to squeeze in 15:45 if you end with 49 - infinity then I will refuse :p 15:45 that might help us with the whole LO/abiword discussion 15:45 ochosi, you mean... in 2) ? :P 15:45 oh 15:45 right 15:45 elfy, slickymasterWork: let's schedule some time to go through the 1) list 15:45 and finalize that 15:45 yep 15:45 like: Xubuntu's default software selection satisfies my office needs 15:45 I'll answer that after reading the backlog knome 15:45 I lost the all discussion :P 15:46 #action knome to schedule a meeting for poll improving 15:46 * meetingology knome to schedule a meeting for poll improving 15:46 ochosi, that sounds a bit off from the general "policy", but we'll see 15:46 yeah 15:46 just felt we might throw something like that in the mix 15:47 yep 15:47 it's up to you whether you wanna keep it 15:47 unless we killed off #2 completely 15:47 i mean with 2) i'm really not sure what we wanna know 15:47 then we could have things like Xubuntu default software satisfies my entertainment needs 15:47 ochosi, yes. 15:47 if we wanna know whether our default apps are fine for most users, we should expressedly ask for that 15:47 ochosi, it's a great quantitative question though 15:48 just remember 15:48 this poll is supposed to figure out how our users identify 15:48 yeah, but what conclusions do you draw from that question (ideally)? 15:48 there are more polls to follow which can address other questions better 15:48 ah, alrighty 15:49 afaik this is just #1 in a series 15:49 i don't "want" to draw any conclusions 15:49 i want data that enables us to figure out something 15:49 so - get some idea of where people are first - then craft polls more specifically - I thought that was pleia2's idea/plan 15:49 if you understand the difference.. 15:49 elfy, absolutely and exactly that 15:49 yeah, i had forgotten there would be more of them 15:49 let's move on 15:50 yup 15:50 yeah, I agree with the idea of one step at a time 15:50 nothing else on the agenda, but I guess we could deal with games and that discussion 15:50 right 15:50 yep, throw a subtopic in and let's briefly discuss the games thread 15:50 we could at least continue it a bit 15:51 #subtopic Discuss games in default install following m/l thread 15:51 so we have a summary https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PasiLallinaho/XubuntuGamesDiscussion 15:51 which seems to me to be 15:51 and just ftr: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-January/thread.html#10530 15:52 14 to keep games 15:52 4 to lose games completely 15:52 1 sitting on the fence and nothing from me :) 15:52 yes... the list url will be available forever, the wiki page will be dropped 15:52 hmyeah, i'm sorta on the majority's side if i have to weigh in 15:52 the numbers are pretty clear 15:52 which ignores whether to change the current games or not 15:52 yes, there are good arguments for keeping 15:52 i don't *really* care too much, but then again, the games aren't heavy 15:52 "Games make Xubuntu look friendly and less nerdy." 15:53 and I'm +1 to keeping games 15:53 mkay 15:53 yeah, makes sense 15:53 "They are something familiar for new users and helps them connect and feel comfortable with Xubuntu and learn about it." 15:53 I vote for 2-4 generic games. those switching from windows will miss solitaire. 15:53 we don't ship solitaire currently though... 15:53 and we aren't discussing which games to ship... yet 15:53 we had aisleriot at some point 15:54 yes, was dropped to help with the fit-on-a-CD mission 15:54 iirc 15:54 knome: yea - but I think we should discuss that - just not now 15:54 elfy, yep 15:54 right 15:54 and to be complete... 15:54 as I said in -offtopic - I think the best plan would be draw up a list of simple games - then poll users and team 15:54 i think also seans comments were good: 15:54 "Games makes Xubuntu feel more human-oriented." 15:54 *make 15:55 agreed 15:55 "Users can install games if they want, but small games are supposed to be quick diversions." <- meaning, it isnt't a quick diversion if you have to isntall a game first 15:55 elfy, works for me 15:55 ok, i guess there are no strong voices here for *dropping* the games so let's move along then :) 15:56 I'll mail Team re getting a list of simple games 15:56 and just fyi aisleriot: installed: 14,8MB, download: 2.8MB 15:56 ochosi, not so simple and small :) 15:56 i'd actually want to discuss one more thing 15:56 yeah, it's >1 card game 15:56 briefly 15:56 we'll have to take this on the mailing list... 15:56 #action elfy to mail list (TEAM) for suggestions on new games for the default 15:56 * meetingology elfy to mail list (TEAM) for suggestions on new games for the default 15:56 are we going to target a 1Gb image? 15:57 or will we move our "maximum size" target to 2Gb? 15:57 I think we should, at least until next LTS 15:57 tbh, i think the target should be "as close as or under 1Gb" 15:57 yes, 15:58 mmm 15:58 if it seems obvious that we will go over 1Gb with the potential app changes 15:58 or even better, 15:58 "under, or as close as possible to 1Gb" 15:58 under being the first target/goal 15:58 but surely that doesn't work ? 15:58 probably not. 15:58 we're not that far from that, presently 15:59 yeah, would be nice 15:59 especially if we end up replacing abiword and gnumeric with LO components 15:59 1.1Gb might be as close as possible - then if the decision is about hardware - how many 1.1Gb usb sticks have you seen? 15:59 at that point if it's just that consideration - 2Gb is fine 15:59 elfy, what my intention is that even if we go over 1Gb, we shouldn't fill up to 2Gb just because; the download size still matters 15:59 yeah 16:00 of course not - that's not really what I'm saying :) 16:00 i think it's more about DL size than installation medium 16:00 elfy, i understand, but it's important to mention imo 16:00 the media is not the only issue here elfy, there's also bandwidth considertaions 16:00 afaik none of the other *buntu's are anywhere close to 2 16:00 elfy, i mean, the "as close to 1Gb as possible" goal 16:00 considertaions even 16:00 things have changed a little though since we have -core 16:00 * slickymasterWork sighs 16:00 ochosi: true enough 16:00 ochosi, we don't test the core image *very much* 16:01 yeah, not yet 16:01 elfy, no comments about not testing the main images :P 16:01 but yeah... 16:01 ha ha 16:01 but i dunno if it really needs special testing as soon as it's established that the approach works 16:01 most of what's there is the same as in the main image 16:01 as i very theoretically asked elfy one day: 16:01 lol 16:01 if we tested the core image with installations, would we really need to test the main image? 16:02 I gave a theoretical answer based on experience :p 16:02 because the core is the same, main image just brings applications, which are tested separately anyway.. 16:02 not all of them knome 16:02 slickymasterWork, then we should reconsider what core is 16:02 but that was just theoretical 16:02 point taken 16:02 having a smaller image to download for the ISO test might mean more people would be enabled to test 16:03 *might* 16:03 but that's the discussion 16:03 and we definitely should get this on the list for broader discussion within the team 16:03 agreed 16:03 #action knome to send an email about ISO size target(s) 16:03 * meetingology knome to send an email about ISO size target(s) 16:04 sounds good 16:04 let's do those ML threads after each other though 16:04