10:08 <ochosi> #startmeeting
10:08 <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jul 15 10:08:00 2014 UTC.  The chair is ochosi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
10:08 <meetingology> 
10:08 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
10:08 <ochosi> who's here for the meeting?
10:08 <pleia2> o/
10:08 <pleia2> I'm in Germany this week, so this meeting isn't at 3AM :)
10:08 <ochosi> hehe, nice
10:09 * ochosi is already a bit hungry, it's lunchtime in .at too ;)
10:09 <pleia2> hehe
10:09 <slickymasterWork> o/
10:09 <ochosi> !team | meeting time everyone! :)
10:09 <ubottu> meeting time everyone! :): bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193
10:09 <bluesabre> \o/
10:11 <ochosi> wow, quite the turnout :)
10:11 <ochosi> anyway, i guess let's start since pleia2 isn't around that much longer
10:11 <ochosi> #topic Open action items
10:12 <ochosi> doesn't look like we have much
10:12 <ochosi> slickymasterWork: how is the -core stuff doing?
10:12 <slickymasterWork> haven't been able to start it yet ochosi :P
10:12 <slickymasterWork> lately things at work haven't been easy
10:13 <bluesabre> xubuntu-core?
10:13 <ochosi> yup
10:13 <ochosi> slickymasterWork: no worries, there's still time ;)
10:13 <ochosi> we can carry that forward i guess
10:14 <bluesabre> I merged the branch for that last night, so that should appear shortly in utopic :)
10:14 <ochosi> #action slickymaster Add core information to FAQ
10:14 * meetingology slickymaster Add core information to FAQ
10:14 <slickymasterWork> I targeting to get that in mid august ochosi
10:14 <slickymasterWork> s/I/I'm
10:14 <ochosi> slickymasterWork: is it on trello?
10:14 <ochosi> if not, please add it there
10:14 <slickymasterWork> not yet
10:14 <slickymasterWork> will do
10:14 <ochosi> ty
10:14 <ochosi> ok, we have two things on our agenda...
10:15 <ochosi> #topic Default irc client
10:15 <ochosi> sooo, we had a bit of discussion on the ML
10:15 <ochosi> i'm not sure that was really entirely conclusive
10:15 <pleia2> yeah, not so much
10:15 <ochosi> from what i gather, most people are in favor of hexchat>xchat
10:16 <ochosi> but whether to just use pidgin instead, that was not very clear as a feedback
10:16 <bluesabre> I think at present, we should replace xchat with hexchat
10:16 <ochosi> i'm generally fine with that
10:17 <bluesabre> since we never had any conclusive decision, and hexchat is effectively the newer version
10:17 <ochosi> iirc elfy had some concerns wrt hexchat
10:17 <ochosi> some bugs or regressions i think
10:17 <bluesabre> I see
10:17 <ochosi> generally i'm fine with proceeding that way
10:18 <pleia2> me too, can we action elfy to let us know what the issues are?
10:18 <ochosi> i don't remember how grave the problems were, and it seems neither Unit193 nor elfy are around
10:18 <ochosi> sounds like a good idea
10:18 <bluesabre> sounds good to me. Then we can work to resolve those items prior to next meeting
10:18 <ochosi> (since he didn't say anything on the ML)
10:19 <ochosi> #action elfy Inform the team on the mailinglist about potential bugs/regressions of hexchat over xchat
10:19 * meetingology elfy Inform the team on the mailinglist about potential bugs/regressions of hexchat over xchat
10:19 <ochosi> generally speaking, i'd be fine with trying to just go with pidgin for a cycle in case hexchat has regressions
10:20 <ochosi> so either way, i'd do away with xchat for at least 14.10
10:20 <ochosi> thoughts/comments?
10:20 <pleia2> sounds good
10:20 <bluesabre> I agree
10:21 <ochosi> okeydokey, then let's discuss this again next time with elfy's intel
10:21 <ochosi> #topic Gksu/do
10:21 <ochosi> now, this is a topic i don't know much about
10:21 <ochosi> so i'm hoping one of you has done the homework :p
10:22 <ochosi> (i read what was posted on the ml, but nothing beyond that)
10:22 <slickymasterWork> xubutrello: card 81 link
10:22 <xubutrello> https://trello.com/c/wn31wIF5/81-add-core-information-to-faq
10:22 <slickymasterWork> ochosi: ^^
10:22 <ochosi> thanks slickymasterWork
10:22 <bluesabre> cool, so there are a few things going on here
10:23 <bluesabre> 1. Ubuntu moved away from using gksu(do) in favor of pkexec.  Most of their applications now ship pkexec policies, so this was an acceptable item for them.
10:23 <bluesabre> 2. We followed suit.  However, most of our applications do not have pkexec policies, so we're a bit behind on that.
10:24 <bluesabre> so 3. the question is, do we want to return gksu(do), or create an effort to make pkexec policies for our common applications?
10:24 <slickymasterWork> we sort of had a similar discussion on this last cycle regarding the occurrences of gksu in the documentation
10:24 <ochosi> hm, i see
10:24 <bluesabre> gksu has been the norm for a long time, and you could say that users expect it
10:25 <slickymasterWork> and it was decided to drop gksu favoring the use of sudo .i
10:25 <slickymasterWork> *sudo -i
10:25 <ochosi> so does anybody have an idea how many apps are affected?
10:25 <ochosi> (just to get an idea of how much work it'd be)
10:25 <bluesabre> I think it depends entirely on what we want users to be running as superuser
10:25 <bluesabre> firefox: probably a bad idea
10:25 <slickymasterWork> ochosi: you're just referring to shipped app's, right?
10:26 <slickymasterWork> firefox is definitely one
10:26 <ochosi> slickymasterWork: yes, those we ship
10:26 <bluesabre> mousepad and terminal could both be beneficial
10:26 <ochosi> but yeah, it makes one wonder about whether we're causing users issues on other apps...
10:26 <ochosi> thunar?
10:26 <bluesabre> yes
10:27 <slickymasterWork> I think that terminal would be another
10:27 <ochosi> how much work is it to add a pkexec profile?
10:27 <bluesabre> one sec
10:28 <ochosi> pleia2: btw, if you have to run but have team updates, i'll give you the floor anytime...
10:28 <pleia2> ochosi: yeah, I should do that soon :)
10:28 <bluesabre> sample file: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings/trunk/view/head:/com.ubuntu.pkexec.lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings.policy.in
10:28 <pleia2> seems not so bad
10:29 <ochosi> yeah, but that all has to go upstream ideally, right?
10:29 <pleia2> I assume at least to the packages in debian first
10:29 * ochosi just hopes this isn't another thing ppl will get flamey about like systemd...
10:29 <bluesabre> ideally, or we can ship it in xubuntu-default-settings... but yeah, implementation would be another question
10:29 <bluesabre> we already have pkexec, just no supported apps :)
10:29 <ochosi> heh
10:30 <ochosi> any downsides to additionally bringing back gksu?
10:30 <bluesabre> I see none, but there may be some arguments... we should discuss with #ubuntu-devel folks maybe?
10:30 <slickymasterWork> http://pastebin.com/G2nGpEdt <- for xfce4-terminal
10:31 <ochosi> hmm, either way... i think we can't come to a conclusive decision today. i'd prefer it if we could compile a list of apps to get an idea of the workload...
10:31 <ochosi> bluesabre: good idae
10:31 <ochosi> idea
10:31 <bluesabre> right, that would be the best course of action :)
10:31 <ochosi> #action ochosi to talk with folks in #ubuntu-devel about the upsides/downsides of gksu and pkexec and then inform the team
10:31 * meetingology ochosi to talk with folks in #ubuntu-devel about the upsides/downsides of gksu and pkexec and then inform the team
10:31 <bluesabre> thanks ochosi
10:32 <ochosi> let's also do this though:
10:32 <ochosi> somebody should send an email to the ML about collecting apps in question for pkexec
10:32 <ochosi> ideally on a wikipage or something
10:32 <ochosi> so users can also contribute
10:32 <ochosi> we might not think of everything
10:32 <ochosi> any volunteers for that task? :p
10:33 <bluesabre> suppose I can take that action item
10:33 * ochosi wants to move on to the team updates...
10:33 <pleia2> thanks bluesabre :)
10:33 <ochosi> thanks bluesabre
10:34 <ochosi> #action bluesabre to set up a page on the ubuntu-wiki collecting apps that potentially need a pkexec profile and send an email to the list to get users to contribute to the list
10:34 * meetingology bluesabre to set up a page on the ubuntu-wiki collecting apps that potentially need a pkexec profile and send an email to the list to get users to contribute to the list
10:34 <ochosi> #topic Team updates
10:34 <pleia2> #info The Marketing blueprint has been updated with plans for this cycle https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-u-marketing
10:34 <ochosi> great
10:34 <pleia2> if anyone else has ideas, feel free to let me know, but we're not being so ambitious this cycle :)
10:34 <bluesabre> :)
10:35 <ochosi> indeed :)
10:35 <ochosi> it's ok to take a slower one ;)
10:35 * pleia2 nods
10:35 <ochosi> pleia2: so you've discussed the financials with knome for flyers and tees?
10:35 <pleia2> ochosi: mostly
10:35 <ochosi> cool
10:35 <pleia2> we'll work out details as we move forward with actual ordering
10:36 <slickymasterWork> #info bug #1299743 is now Fix Committed status
10:36 <ubottu> bug 1299743 in xubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "No options: "Show printers shared by other systems"" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1299743
10:36 <pleia2> lunch now
10:36 <ochosi> bon appetit, pleia2
10:36 <slickymasterWork> enjoy pleia2
10:36 <bluesabre> seeya pleia2
10:36 <bluesabre> #info bluesabre now has upload rights for the xubuntu packageset
10:36 <slickymasterWork> congrats on that bluesabre
10:37 <ochosi> \o/
10:37 <bluesabre> #action bluesabre to review applications shipped by xubuntu to make sure they are in the xubuntu packageset (menulibre is not currently included)
10:37 * meetingology bluesabre to review applications shipped by xubuntu to make sure they are in the xubuntu packageset (menulibre is not currently included)
10:38 <ochosi> how're things looking for 14.04.1?
10:38 <bluesabre> well, xfpm and lls are both in -updates now
10:38 <ochosi> good
10:38 <bluesabre> but I missed the fact that xubuntu-default-settings needed to be updated as well
10:38 <bluesabre> so working on the SRU documentation for that
10:39 <ochosi> if you're ok with it, we could take a shared action item for blogging about that bug, so that ppl know what is fixed and what isn't and how to make sure the fix works
10:39 <bluesabre> menulibre and lightdm-gtk-greeter are stuck in limbo on their way to trusty-proposed, once that happens we can proceed with verification
10:39 <bluesabre> ochosi: I'd be in favor of that
10:39 <ochosi> i can draft it, but as all of this is a bit complex, review would be very necessary
10:39 <bluesabre> right
10:40 <ochosi> #action ochosi and bluesabre to work on blog posting for xubuntu.org about the resolved black screen bug (for 14.04.1)
10:40 * meetingology ochosi and bluesabre to work on blog posting for xubuntu.org about the resolved black screen bug (for 14.04.1)
10:40 <bluesabre> also, need to know if there is a freeze for 14.04.1
10:40 <bluesabre> we're 9 days away (24th)
10:40 <ochosi> humm, that's not too much time
10:41 <bluesabre> nope
10:41 <ochosi> let's hope there is none then ;)
10:41 <ochosi> i guess that's not enough time for a separate action item anyway
10:41 <bluesabre> and the SRU process dictates that packages have to sit in proposed for 7 day
10:41 <bluesabre> s
10:41 <ochosi> oh dear, that means 2 days or less for menulibre and greeter?
10:41 <ochosi> (not even talking about the xdg-utils patch...)
10:42 <bluesabre> yeah, gotta get these things moving if we want to fixes in the iso
10:42 <ochosi> yeah, would be good, especially as all the 12.04->14.04 upgrades are visible for the first time with 14.04.1
10:43 <ochosi> who of you has done a 12.04->14.04 upgrade?
10:43 <bluesabre> o/
10:43 <ochosi> would be nice to write up some of the things needed to do after that upgrade
10:43 <slickymasterWork> o/
10:43 <ochosi> something like "fixing indicators" etc
10:43 <slickymasterWork> but mostly those were tests
10:43 <ochosi> just a quick list that we can publish on the blog
10:43 <bluesabre> sudo apt-get remove xscreensaver
10:43 <ochosi> heh, yeah, stuff like that ^
10:44 <ochosi> slickymasterWork: would you mind starting with a draft?
10:44 <ochosi> then maybe also ask elfy to help on it
10:44 <slickymasterWork> ok
10:44 <ochosi> and then we can ask ppl on the team or whoever has done that upgrade to check whether something's missing
10:44 <ochosi> cool, thanks slickymasterWork
10:45 <ochosi> #action slickymaster to write up a draft for "things to do after a 12.04->14.04 upgrade"
10:45 * meetingology slickymaster to write up a draft for "things to do after a 12.04->14.04 upgrade"
10:45 <slickymasterWork> I'll ping elfy on it, because I mostly just made the upgrading tests and afterwards deleted those boxes
10:45 <ochosi> sure
10:45 <ochosi> okay, any other updates?
10:45 <bluesabre> also, might do a mention that ppas are disabled on upgrade
10:45 <ochosi> indeed
10:46 * slickymasterWork agrees
10:46 * ochosi hopes slickymasterWork is already taking notes
10:46 <ochosi> :>
10:46 * slickymasterWork will use the logs
10:46 <bluesabre> xubuntu-dev ppas are growing steadily
10:46 <ochosi> clever slickymasterWork
10:46 <ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, wanna info a bit of that?
10:46 <slickymasterWork> there's something I want to get by you guys
10:47 <bluesabre> #info xubuntu-dev PPAs are growing with an increased number of packages for trusty and utopic - https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-staging - https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/extras
10:47 <slickymasterWork> regarding the work that you both made on the Xfce Display Settings
10:47 <bluesabre> go for it :)
10:47 <slickymasterWork> do you want it to be included in the -docs?
10:48 <bluesabre> Is there already a section for the display settings?
10:48 <ochosi> would be nice, but otoh it's simply more intuitive than the old dialog
10:49 <slickymasterWork> not specifically bluesabre
10:49 <slickymasterWork> but it would probably fall in the Settings and Preferences chapter
10:49 <bluesabre> ok, then as ochosi indicated, its probably not a necessity, we made it a lot more user friendly... but if you want to include it, I'm open to any questions you may have
10:50 <ochosi> now it basically works like display dialogs in most other OSs
10:50 <slickymasterWork> I'll dig a bit deeper on that to see if it's adequate
10:50 <ochosi> sounds good, thanks slickymasterWork
10:50 <bluesabre> ^
10:50 <slickymasterWork> if not, then we'll just drop the idea
10:50 <slickymasterWork> okie dokie
10:51 <ochosi> anything else from your sides?
10:51 <slickymasterWork> not from me
10:51 <ochosi> #topic Discussion
10:51 <ochosi> any discussion left? :)
10:51 <bluesabre> did Noskcaj mention that xfce packages are now accepted under the MRE (micro release exceptions)?
10:51 <ochosi> he did
10:51 <slickymasterWork> the inxi issue is done with, right?
10:51 <ochosi> bluesabre: that would be an announcement i guess
10:52 <bluesabre> slickymasterWork: inxi will be included in the seed the next time the seed files are generated
10:52 <slickymasterWork> I mean we're going to ship it
10:52 <ochosi> #topic Announcements
10:52 <ochosi> slickymasterWork: yup
10:52 <slickymasterWork> you beat me
10:52 <bluesabre> oh, slow down ochosi
10:52 <slickymasterWork> :)
10:52 <bluesabre> question: clutter in xubuntu
10:52 <ochosi> #undo
10:52 <meetingology> Removing item from minutes: TOPIC
10:52 <bluesabre> *for parole
10:52 <slickymasterWork> he starvating bluesabre ;)
10:52 <ochosi> hehe
10:53 <ochosi> bluesabre: do we know what clutter pulls in?
10:53 <ochosi> package-wise
10:53 <bluesabre> probably a mess
10:53 <ochosi> i forgot what is all needed, was it just libclutter-gst-1.0-0 ?
10:54 <bluesabre> I can verify that, but going forward, the x components will work decreasingly well over the next few releases as X support is pulled from gtk
10:54 <ochosi> or gstreamer1.0-clutter?
10:55 <bluesabre> I'll check on that later, not sure what recommends get pulled
10:55 <ochosi> #action bluesabre to investigate what packages would be pulled in for being able to use Parole's clutter backend
10:55 * meetingology bluesabre to investigate what packages would be pulled in for being able to use Parole's clutter backend
10:55 <bluesabre> that'll do
10:55 <bluesabre> :)
10:55 <ochosi> cool
10:56 * bluesabre leaves in 5 minutes
10:56 <ochosi> ok, let's wrap it up then?
10:56 <ochosi> #topic Announcements
10:56 <slickymasterWork> I've got none
10:57 <slickymasterWork> maybe next meeting schedule?
10:57 <ochosi> #info Xfce packages are now accepted under the MRE (micro release exceptions). Thanks Jackson!
10:57 <ochosi> #topic Schedule next meeting
10:57 <ochosi> #action bluesabre is to set up the next meeting
10:57 * meetingology bluesabre is to set up the next meeting
10:57 <ochosi> :)
10:57 <slickymasterWork> he he
10:57 <bluesabre> oh boy
10:58 <ochosi> that'll be fun
10:58 <ochosi> okeydokey
10:58 <ochosi> thanks everyone!
10:58 <ochosi> #endmeeting