20:01 <ochosi> #startmeeting
20:01 <meetingology> Meeting started Mon May 26 20:01:30 2014 UTC.  The chair is ochosi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
20:01 <meetingology> 
20:01 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
20:01 <bluesabre> \o/
20:01 <knome> oh boo, i'm soon running out off battery
20:01 <ochosi> indeed, boo
20:01 <elfy> o/
20:02 <ochosi> i think we were a bit lazy in terms of adding stuff to the agenda :)
20:02 <ochosi> anyway, i'll quickly tell you about my action items from last time: staging PPA: done.
20:03 <ochosi> continuing the voting on the ML was done, but we should discuss the result today i think
20:03 <ochosi> and i sent an email about how to do team meetings
20:03 <ochosi> bluesabre: how about your open action items?
20:03 <ochosi> (greeter and menulibre SRU)
20:04 <bluesabre> #info lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.8.5 is stuck, working on it
20:04 <bluesabre> #info menulibre SRU in progress
20:04 <bluesabre> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/menulibre/+bug/1323405
20:04 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 1323405 in menulibre (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Please backport menulibre-2.0.4 to trusty" [Undecided,New]
20:04 <knome> bluesabre, if you need help with getting the black screen in, poke me
20:04 <knome> err, black screen fix
20:04 <ochosi> hehe
20:04 <bluesabre> knome: will do
20:04 <ochosi> knome breaks everyone's install, if needed
20:05 <bluesabre> support i'll link those as well
20:05 <bluesabre> or, wait until announcements for those
20:05 <ochosi> yup, or team updates :)
20:05 <ochosi> elfy: what about your open action items?
20:05 <elfy> do I have any?
20:06 <ochosi> nah, i think they're all done
20:06 <ochosi> just wanted to make sure
20:06 <ochosi> #topic Team updates
20:06 <elfy> the one action thing from the last meeting was done before the meeting finished :p
20:06 <ochosi> any team updates ppl?
20:07 <elfy> #info QA is slow - hardly any movement at all
20:07 <elfy> done
20:07 <knome> ;)=
20:07 <pleia2> oh hi
20:08 <knome> oh hi pleia2!
20:08 <bluesabre> black screen fix should go here or announcements?
20:08 <bluesabre> hey pleia2!
20:08 <knome> bluesabre, here's good
20:08 <bluesabre> ok
20:08 <ochosi> #info Artwork: Our icon-theme is being worked on currently, hopefully a new release soon. Fixed a few visual bugs, like bluetooth status not showing correctly in the panel (blueman) and fix for indicator-power and bright panels.
20:08 <ochosi> #info Artwork: Work on Gtk3.12 support in our themes is currently blocked by Gtk3.12 not being in the repos yet.
20:08 <pleia2> #info Marketing: pleia2 did an interview for Linux Luddites Episode #16 on Xubuntu http://linuxluddites.com/shows/episode-16/
20:09 <knome> pleia2, ooh, can we SOME that?
20:09 <bluesabre> #info Development: The light-locker black screen fix is in the sponsors queue
20:09 <bluesabre> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-locker-settings/+bug/1323368
20:09 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 1323368 in light-locker-settings (Ubuntu) "Please upload light-locker-settings 1.2.1-0ubuntu2 to utopic" [Undecided,Confirmed]
20:09 <bluesabre> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1323367
20:09 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 1323367 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "Please upload xfce4-power-manager 1.2.0-3ubuntu5 to utopic" [Undecided,Confirmed]
20:09 <ochosi> iirc links are picked up automatically now
20:09 <ochosi> no need for #link anymore
20:09 <pleia2> knome: hm?
20:09 <ochosi> (just saying)
20:10 <knome> pleia2, social media
20:10 * bluesabre rocks it old school
20:10 <ochosi> heh
20:10 <pleia2> knome: done!
20:10 <knome> at least links with nothing else on the line...
20:10 <ochosi> bluesabre: sure, however you prefer ;)
20:10 <knome> pleia2, cool :)
20:10 <pleia2> knome: did you #info the external CSS yet?
20:10 <knome> bluesabre, i've bumped the importance to critical.
20:10 <knome> pleia2, oh noes
20:10 <knome> i need power
20:10 <knome> brb
20:10 <bluesabre> thanks knome
20:11 * Unit193 been skimming.
20:11 <ochosi> any further team updates?
20:11 <knome> y
20:11 <ochosi> ok, will wait for you then
20:11 <ochosi> just wanted to say in advance that despite the empty schedule, there are a few things worth discussing
20:11 <pleia2> #info Website new static.xubuntu.org CSS page was added to theme so we can do some of our own CSS updates without waiting on IS
20:11 <knome> oh duh
20:12 <knome> i was writing a much more verbose one
20:12 <ochosi> \o/ nice pleia2 and knome
20:12 <knome> ochosi, that was my item ;)
20:12 <pleia2> verbose--
20:12 <pleia2> :)
20:12 <knome> nah
20:12 <knome> depends!
20:13 <ochosi> ok, any other updates?
20:13 <knome> bluesabre, btw, i'm not sure if you should set the bug confirmed
20:13 <pleia2> I'm done
20:13 <knome> bluesabre, that might not be the way the SRU team tracks the bugs...
20:13 <bluesabre> knome: those two aren't for SRU yet
20:13 <bluesabre> gotta go to utopic, the SRU back to trusty
20:13 <ochosi> #topic Announcements
20:13 <bluesabre> so more bugs in the future :)
20:14 * ochosi assumes that when pleia2 is done, everyone is
20:14 <ochosi> any announcements?
20:14 <knome> bluesabre, hmm, sponsors what i meant ;)
20:14 <bluesabre> ok, then it's good for sponsors ;)
20:14 <knome> bluesabre, i somehow thought sru...
20:14 <elfy> ochosi: should there not be an announcement from you
20:14 <elfy> on the mailing list thing
20:14 <knome> and debian liaison?
20:14 <knome> or did that get two weeks
20:14 <ochosi> elfy: i actually wanted to wait for discussion for that one
20:15 <bluesabre> anybody else going to apply for tech lead?
20:15 <knome> who knows... ;)
20:15 * elfy will just so there is someone else
20:15 <bluesabre> oh good
20:15 <elfy> what is it?
20:15 <knome> haha
20:15 <bluesabre> ;)
20:15 <ochosi> knome: debian liaison has a week, so thursday...
20:15 <knome> ochosi, practically this is "next week", but okay ;)
20:16 <ochosi> i can of course always prematurely announce it if you insist ;)
20:16 <knome> go as you please
20:16 <elfy> there are 3 replies - that's generally about it ;)
20:16 <knome> just a thought that popped into my mind
20:16 <Unit193> ochosi: I hear Noskcaj_ wanted that. ;)
20:16 <ochosi> ok, i'll wait one more minute (or two) for further announcements, then i'll carry on
20:17 <knome> Unit193, wanted to cheer you? yeah...
20:17 <ochosi> Unit193: that's not how i interpreted his email ;)
20:17 <Noskcaj_> Unit193, What do i want?
20:17 <ochosi> and hi Noskcaj_ :)
20:17 <ochosi> any announcements from you?
20:17 <Noskcaj_> hey ochosi
20:17 <knome> Unit193, stop being a slimey amoeba;)
20:17 <Noskcaj_> I'm back?
20:17 <knome> welcome
20:17 <bluesabre> yay!
20:17 <ochosi> hehe, good announcement :)
20:17 <ochosi> better #info that ;)
20:17 <knome> another dictator ruling the project now
20:17 <Unit193> bluesabre: Also, yes, don't set it to confirmed.
20:18 * knome hides
20:18 <knome> hehe, he's back and he's off
20:18 <ochosi> just stopping by to say i'm back! bye! :)
20:18 <ochosi> ok, let's carry on...
20:18 <bluesabre> oh, I guess confirmed is only for sponsored merges
20:18 <ochosi> #topic Discussion
20:19 <ochosi> #suptopic Mailinglist proposal by knome
20:19 <ochosi> as you all know, we voted on knome's proposal last time
20:19 <ochosi> the result wasn't quite as unanimous as i'd have hoped
20:20 <ochosi> we discussed this outside the meetings and i came to the following conclusion/proposal:
20:20 <ochosi> especially in the light of the ML being rather slow lately and strangely since we started discussing closing the ML the offtopic stuff got reduced, i think we can leave it open for now
20:21 <ochosi> but we try a "two strikes, and you're flagged" model (or X strikes, if ppl have good reasons that 2 is not ok)
20:21 <ochosi> so when somebody sends inappropriate or offtopic stuff à la "Install LibreOffice by default" to the ML
20:21 <ochosi> or something that is a bugreport, or a support request
20:21 <knome> ( ^ technically, set the moderation flag for the email address so further mails from that person needs moderation)
20:22 <ochosi> a moderator of the list gets in touch with the "offender" directly and personally
20:22 <ochosi> if the person ignores that and offends again, he/she gets flagged
20:22 <ochosi> good, i don't have to explain flagging anymore, thanks knome :)
20:22 <knome> ( ^ messages should also be sent CC to xubuntu-devel-owner@lists.ubuntu.com, so other moderators know it's been dealt with)
20:23 <ochosi> so yeah, that'd be the proposal, and if everyone can live with it, i'd say we try that for at least a month
20:23 <ochosi> generally, this would be a very dynamic policy anway though
20:23 <ochosi> if there's no offtopic stuff, there's nothing to moderate
20:23 <elfy> but only admins can flag - is that right?
20:23 <bluesabre> sounds reasonable to me
20:23 <knome> and finally, if you aren't sure, ask other moderators
20:23 <ochosi> if the offtopic stuff takes over, we flag lots of people
20:23 <knome> elfy, only owners can flag, that's me and pleia2 atm
20:23 <ochosi> knome: care to list the moderators, so that everyone knows?
20:24 <knome> owners are (can set flags): knome, pleia2
20:24 <knome> moderators are: elfy, unit193, bluesabre (+owners)
20:25 <pleia2> I'd also appreciate discussion about this, if someone thinks someone is borderline, let me and knome know, I have a tendancy to give folks reams of rope to hang themselves with :)
20:25 <knome> sending a mail to xubuntu-devel-owner@lists ... sends a mail to everybody in those two groups.
20:25 <knome> i'm the bad cop, pleia2 is the good cop
20:25 <elfy> and I have a tendency to use very short rope - having other things to do than baby people
20:25 <pleia2> hehe
20:25 <knome> but i'll promise to try to be as prompt as possible if people request moderation flags
20:26 <knome> also,
20:26 <elfy> if we're going to be going - ooh shall we, not sure,, mmm
20:26 <knome> we should set a policy...
20:26 <Unit193> elfy: I tend to just ignore, because it's "Ubuntu, so gotta give so much rope you lose sight of them."
20:26 <elfy> then I don't want to be involved in that at all
20:26 <knome> when moderator X sends the mail and CC's other owners
20:26 <knome> the same moderator should take care of noticing the second strike
20:26 <knome> (if at all possible)
20:27 <ochosi> i'd personally prefer if we wouldn't vote on this again, cause it slows things down, if the owners and moderators of the list are ok with this proposal, i'd like to put it in effect now/today
20:27 <knome> and i guess once that happens and anybody notices that, send another mail to -owner
20:27 <knome> so other moderators know that's it's going to happen, and we owners can act accordingly and add the flag
20:27 <ochosi> if needed, we can document this, i just wanna "get on with it!" and talk about other things :)
20:28 <knome> if everybody is happy with the proposal, i can document it under Processes in the wiki today
20:28 <ochosi> sweet, thanks knome
20:28 <ochosi> (i hoped you'd say that ;))
20:28 <knome> but of course! ;)
20:28 <ochosi> pleia2: +1/0/-1? :)
20:28 <ochosi> moderators?
20:28 * elfy can see this getting completely wishy washy
20:28 <bluesabre> +1
20:29 <knome> if we need to flag loads of people, we can always reassess the need for full moderation.
20:29 <ochosi> exactly
20:29 <Unit193> Policy++
20:29 <elfy> I'll just in whichever way gets this moving
20:29 <knome> yeah, i can +1 this one as well, but i'll want one from pleia2 too, because this is clearly more work for *owners* then the previous proposal.
20:29 <ochosi> elfy: well there's only one obvious way to get this moving... ;)
20:30 <pleia2> should be ok
20:30 <elfy> +0
20:30 <elfy> I'll sit on the fence then ;)
20:30 <ochosi> heh
20:30 <pleia2> we can reassess if it's annoying/awful :)
20:30 <ochosi> fine
20:30 <ochosi> #info The mailinglist will get moderated on a per-offender basis, "two strikes and you're flagged".
20:30 <knome> #action knome to describe the -devel ML moderation policy to Processes in the wiki
20:30 * meetingology knome to describe the -devel ML moderation policy to Processes in the wiki
20:31 <ochosi> #action knome will document the new moderation policy against offenders on the wiki
20:31 * meetingology knome will document the new moderation policy against offenders on the wiki
20:31 <ochosi> garr
20:31 <ochosi> :)
20:31 <knome> #undo
20:31 <ochosi> thanks
20:31 <knome> hmm, only chair can undo
20:31 <ochosi> #undo
20:31 <meetingology> Removing item from minutes: ACTION
20:31 <ochosi> ok, let's move on
20:31 <ochosi> #subtopic Trello
20:32 <ochosi> as it wasnt announced, i thought we could quickly talk about it
20:32 <ochosi> there's a big trello board now that elfy set up
20:32 <ochosi> bluesabre also used it already
20:33 <ochosi> elfy: wanna do a few #infos?
20:33 <ochosi> so my proposal with this one is that we try it out
20:33 <ochosi> it can't really be much worse than the launchpad blueprints in terms of up-to-dateness
20:33 <bluesabre> :)
20:33 <ochosi> try it for one cycle and then re-assess how it helped us and what would be needed for it to work better
20:34 <ochosi> #info Unit193 set up a Trello bot for interaction with the board from within IRC.
20:34 <knome> does that need a trello account?
20:34 <elfy> unfortunately yes
20:34 <knome> or how's the interaction done
20:34 <ochosi> Unit193: further infos on that? will it always reside in a different channel? how does it work?
20:35 <elfy> there's currently 5 team members not there - knome, skellat, michah, lionel and jackson
20:35 <elfy> 2 of those are not about for sure anyway
20:36 <ochosi> has anyone talked to skellat lately? how long is he MIA?
20:36 * knome has been slacking
20:36 <knome> ochosi, probably not getting back very son
20:36 <knome> *soon
20:36 <elfy> ochosi: from what I saw - another cycle
20:36 <ochosi> actually micah mentioned that he got promoted at work, so he's busier than before
20:36 <elfy> which begs the question - if missing for 2 cycles
20:37 <ochosi> don't wanna jump to conclusions, but i don't think he (=micahg) will be around much during U
20:37 <ochosi> elfy: you mean wrt team membership status?
20:37 <elfy> ochosi: I got that impression
20:37 <elfy> ochosi: yea
20:37 <ochosi> right, iirc knome did something before leaving me this moldy chair that ii'm currently residing on
20:38 <ochosi> something with respect to team membership running out if there are no contributions for X cycles
20:38 <knome> ochosi, whatever you do, don't smell it!
20:38 <knome> i haven't done very strict cleaning.
20:38 <ochosi> but i don't remember whether the policy was put into place or just thought about
20:38 <elfy> "Anyone with no contributions for more than a complete cycle (6 months) should deactivate themself from the team as well as all subteams and reapply if/when they are willing to rejoin. "
20:38 <knome> i've asked some people whether they think they will continue contributing
20:38 <elfy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument#Xubuntu_Team
20:39 <knome> by that definition, skellat and mr_pouit should be probably dropped.
20:39 <ochosi> i think mr_pouit did one upload of shimmer-themes in the trusty cycle
20:39 <ochosi> depends now on what you count as "contributing"
20:39 <knome> otoh, lionel *has* popped up now and then (and has said that since he really can't follow IRC, it's hard to follow the development generally)
20:39 <knome> so it all depends how strictly you want to force that rule
20:40 <ochosi> but yeah, i think it's fair that without contributions, you lose your voting rights for the time being
20:40 <knome> i still think it's a good idea to keep that in place.
20:40 <elfy> knome: he said that in the m/l discussion I think
20:40 <knome> ochosi, that's the reason why it is there in the first place
20:40 <knome> also if n people are absent, it gets harder and harder to get a quorum
20:40 <knome> since they are never around
20:40 <ochosi> yup
20:40 <knome> well, "never"
20:41 <ochosi> i think we should ask a few ppl to seize their voting rights then
20:41 <ochosi> just have to take the time to write understanding appreciative emails with the right tone i guess...
20:41 <knome> i'd prefer if the people deactivated themself
20:41 <elfy> knome: +1
20:41 <ochosi> yeah, but we still have to ask them to do it
20:41 <knome> sure
20:41 * ochosi wasn't suggesting anything else
20:41 <knome> no, no
20:42 <knome> though if we ask them, and they don't answer in six months...
20:42 <Unit193> ochosi: It's in read only mode, it's in a different channel as it's not been invited in one of the 'official' channels.
20:42 <ochosi> Unit193: i know, i meant: #info a few infos plz ;)
20:42 * elfy wishes he'd not taken this trello thing offtopic lol
20:42 <ochosi> before we move on, cause trello seems to be going away as a topic atm...
20:43 <knome> ochosi, maybe point out that "ex" team members will most probably get their membership back much quicker than new developers
20:43 <ochosi> elfy: yeah...
20:43 <ochosi> knome: yeah, thought of that
20:43 <ochosi> ok, anything else ppl wanna talk about wrt Trello?
20:43 <elfy> #info Those in -team not yet on the trello access list to get account so they can be added
20:43 <knome> ochosi, and that it's not really about excluding them, mostly for practical reasons (because that's how it is)
20:43 <knome> #action knome to create a Trello account
20:43 * meetingology knome to create a Trello account
20:43 <Unit193> ochosi: Like?
20:44 <ochosi> #info Whoever has questions to Trello can get in touch with elfy.
20:44 <elfy> can you undo that please
20:44 <ochosi> Unit193: what did you plan/think the bot would be used for? etc.
20:44 <knome> elfy, why does Trello start with T and end with o?
20:44 <ochosi> elfy: awwwwh :)
20:44 <ochosi> #undo
20:44 <meetingology> Removing item from minutes: INFO
20:44 <elfy> then add slickymaster to it - he knows as much as me :)
20:44 <knome> slickymaster, why does Trello start with T and end with o?
20:44 <ochosi> well i think somebody should be the "trello contact", even if i don't think there'll ever be questions
20:44 <elfy> you can also add the other admin - which is ochosi :p
20:44 <knome> :P
20:45 <Unit193> ochosi: If it's useful, how you want, etc.  I like IRC, so this makes sense to me.  If we want to get more from it, we can.
20:45 <elfy> ochosi: ok then
20:45 <ochosi> meh, knome made me admin on so many things already...
20:45 <elfy> pleia2 uses it as well
20:45 <ochosi> anyway, let's carry on if there are no further #infos
20:45 <elfy> so there are a few of us
20:46 <elfy> #info Whoever has questions to Trello can get in touch with elfy.
20:46 <ochosi> #subtopic Meeting times during the U cycle
20:46 <ochosi> righty, i quickly wanted to bring that up
20:46 <knome> ochosi, did that come as a surprise to you? :P
20:46 <ochosi> conveniently the person who will hold the next meeting isnt here tonight :p
20:47 <knome> skip it then
20:47 * ochosi looks at slickymaster
20:47 <knome> and select the next one from the list
20:47 <knome> this needs to be dynamic:)
20:47 <ochosi> heh
20:47 <elfy> or get them to do it tomorrow
20:47 <ochosi> well i also didn't announce the next meeting on the day of the previous meeting
20:47 <knome> or call them in their phone!
20:47 * knome hides
20:47 <ochosi> don't think that's a huge problem
20:47 <knome> then just info that person X does it ;)
20:47 <ochosi> just wanted to give ppl another chance to object (since there were no comments made on it on the ML)
20:48 <knome> cycling chairs and times is a great idea.
20:48 <bluesabre> +1
20:48 <ochosi> #action slickymaster to announce the next meeting time ASAP
20:48 * meetingology slickymaster to announce the next meeting time ASAP
20:49 <elfy> though I did just have a thought about this cycling thing - 75% of the leads are EU of some sort :)
20:49 <ochosi> after that it'll be elfy's turn i think
20:49 <elfy> ochosi: you forget -dev :)
20:49 <ochosi> elfy: yeah, but that hasn't been voted on yet ;)
20:49 <knome> elfy, 100% of XPL was EU the last time, wasn't a problem then...
20:49 <ochosi> we also skipped our to-be Debian Liaison
20:49 <elfy> ochosi: indeed - but it will have been by the time it gets to me :p
20:50 <ochosi> sure, so most likely bluesabre and then elfy
20:50 <elfy> not that I *really* mind I add
20:50 <ochosi> do we need a list for that or will we make it clear at the end of every meeting who chairs the next one?
20:50 <knome> who's gonna update the wiki for the new policy?
20:51 <ochosi> the one who asks?
20:51 <knome> ochosi, the list could be in the meetings page comments
20:51 <ochosi> :)
20:51 <elfy> knome: whoever is in there doing the m/l stuff?
20:51 <knome> :P
20:51 * knome sighs
20:51 <elfy> lol
20:51 <ochosi> knome: in due time, we'll create a wiki-team for you ;)
20:51 <knome> #action knome updates the Processes page for the new meeting chair/scheduling policy
20:51 * meetingology knome updates the Processes page for the new meeting chair/scheduling policy
20:51 <elfy> +1 to having list in meeting page comments
20:52 <ochosi> thanks knome!
20:52 <knome> #Action knome adds a list of cycling chairs in the Meetings page
20:52 * meetingology knome adds a list of cycling chairs in the Meetings page
20:52 <ochosi> ok, any other things we wanna discuss?
20:52 * ochosi is through with his topics for tonight
20:52 <elfy> oh yea
20:53 <ochosi> ah right
20:53 <ochosi> there's one left on the meeting page :D
20:53 <ochosi> sorry elfy
20:53 <elfy> I only just remembered
20:53 <ochosi> #subtopic Route testing requirements through xubuntu-qa
20:53 <ochosi> elfy: you got the floor
20:53 <knome> elfy, show us your best moves
20:53 <elfy> so - simple enough - if you want something testing - talk to me
20:53 <elfy> and
20:54 <elfy> before you talk to me - you can check on trello calendar to see when we can fit things in :)
20:54 <bluesabre> :)
20:55 <elfy> please don't let me wake up to testing calls on the mailing list - I have to keep cleaning tea of the monitor ;)
20:55 <ochosi> hehe
20:55 <bluesabre> yeah, I'll behave
20:55 <ochosi> elfy: good you're not drinking substances that are harder to clean off though ;)
20:55 <elfy> bluesabre: well - you know where the calendar is :)
20:55 <elfy> ochosi: lol
20:55 <ochosi> any #infos for that?
20:56 <knome> ochosi, like oil?
20:56 <elfy> #info Talk to QA for testing requirements
20:56 <Unit193> elfy: OK, so contact you if/when for -core?
20:56 <ochosi> also, that sounded more like an announcement than a discussion
20:56 <elfy> #info Check Trello calendar before talking to QA
20:56 <ochosi> or is it just my ears... :>
20:56 <elfy> ochosi: no - it's the time :)
20:56 <ochosi> heh
20:57 <elfy> if people want to try and persuade me that they can call for testing at any time - they are welcome to try :)
20:57 <elfy> Unit193: mmm - as you are in the QA team I'd hope you'd be able to see when we've got space :D
20:58 <ochosi> righty, anything else to "discuss"? :}
20:58 <elfy> ochosi: we can discuss it if you want - but I'm pretty much sat here with feet in concrete
20:59 <ochosi> nah, i'm fine with this
20:59 <elfy> :)
20:59 <ochosi> other topics/discussions?
20:59 <elfy> none from me
21:00 <bluesabre> good here
21:01 <ochosi> ok, in that case, thanks everyone!
21:01 <ochosi> #endmeeting