19:00 <knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
19:00 <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr 24 19:00:48 2014 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
19:00 <meetingology> 
19:00 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
19:01 <knome> i'll skip the action items, updates and announcements...
19:01 <knome> #topic Making sure the Processes page is up-to-date
19:01 <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes
19:02 <knome> if everybody could check that page and see if we are lacking some documentation for any tasks we need to take every cycle...
19:02 * ochosi notices that he never actually read that page
19:02 <knome> it's a relatively new one
19:03 <knome> and still partly WIP by pleia2, Unit193 and myself
19:03 <GridCube> knome, can we have time to read the page and give feedback in the week?
19:03 <knome> i think it would be a good idea to have good documentation of everything around if people need to be away
19:03 <ochosi> +1
19:04 <knome> GridCube, you can send feedback on the mailing list
19:04 <ochosi> also means you don't have to explain things over and over again
19:04 <knome> i just wanted to bring this up now since we have just done everything in the last 6 months
19:04 <ochosi> if you can simply point ppl to a page
19:04 <knome> yep
19:04 <GridCube> i mean, can that be an action item for the team?
19:04 <knome> GridCube, consider it as an always-open action item for the team
19:05 <GridCube> alright
19:05 <knome> if you ever notice the page is missing something, notice people about it
19:05 <slickymaster> sorry for being late guys
19:05 <knome> pleia2, are you atound?
19:05 <GridCube> sure
19:05 <knome> *around
19:05 <knome> hey slickymaster, np
19:05 * knome mixes up the agenda
19:06 <knome> #topic Plans for 14.04 SRU's
19:06 <knome> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-14-04-point-1
19:07 <ochosi> i guess no news on ibus?
19:07 <knome> no
19:07 <ochosi> the lock/suspend issue is being worked on
19:07 <ochosi> but no patch so far
19:07 <knome> again, this is one of the items that i just wanted to bring up
19:07 <knome> if there's anything you think should be in there, or if you think something should be dropped, be in touch with the team
19:07 <knome> currently, i think everything in the blueprint is more or less SRU material
19:08 <ochosi> i guess, honestly i haven't checked all bugreports
19:09 <knome> ok, let's keep on discussing about that and fixing the bugs
19:09 <knome> and move on
19:09 <knome> #topic Cleaning up Launchpad assets
19:09 <knome> https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website/+bug/1305585
19:09 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 1305585 in Xubuntu Website "Remove unneeded Launchpad assets" [Low,Triaged]
19:09 <knome> anybody see a (technical reason) to keep these assets?
19:10 <knome> can't see the first two mentioned ever used
19:10 <knome> the last one was "used", but doesn't have a technical reason
19:10 <knome> and seeing that kind of page might be just more confusing than helpful for users
19:11 <ochosi> yeah, the daily and buildbot ones are related
19:11 <knome> yep
19:11 <ochosi> i do think we can get rid of both
19:11 <ochosi> will later bring up my proposal to replace that
19:11 <knome> ochosi, ok, good
19:11 <knome> #action knome to contact LP admins to drop ~xubuntu-xfce-daily-builds and ~xubuntu-buildbot
19:11 * meetingology knome to contact LP admins to drop ~xubuntu-xfce-daily-builds and ~xubuntu-buildbot
19:11 <knome> what about the latter?
19:12 <knome> i guess...
19:12 <GridCube> doesnt that recieve bug reports?
19:12 <knome> GridCube, no.
19:12 <knome> GridCube, maybe load the page yourself and see and stop guessing
19:12 <GridCube> then i dont see why keeping it if its not being used
19:12 <GridCube> i did that
19:13 <knome> #action knome to check if the xubuntu-desktop project has any technical reason to be kept and get it removed if not
19:13 * meetingology knome to check if the xubuntu-desktop project has any technical reason to be kept and get it removed if not
19:13 <knome> #topic Create a testing PPA common to -team
19:13 <knome> ochosi, this is yours ;)
19:14 <ochosi> yeah, so since we had a lot of testing going on in the 14.04 cycle through PPAs (and it worked well for us i think), i thought we could set up a team for that
19:14 <ochosi> so that ppl can push packages that ought to get tested during the dev cycle to a common PPA
19:14 <ochosi> to make testers lives easier
19:14 <knome> is there any reason to not link that with ~xubuntu-dev?
19:15 <ochosi> yeah, not all ppl who upload to that ppa might be in that team
19:15 <ochosi> i want to have a rather low hurdle for ppl to contribute to that PPA
19:15 <Unit193> -qa made sense to me.
19:15 <knome> wouldn't it make sense to have some kind of moderation for packages that are tested by $all_testers?
19:15 <bluesabre-tmp> well, we don't want too low
19:15 <ochosi> and if we channel everything through -dev, it won't be fun because that team is too small
19:15 <knome> i'd like the -dev team to have more members than now
19:16 <ochosi> yes, i'd want a team that needs approval
19:16 <ochosi> yeah, but -dev can also push to all branches
19:16 <ochosi> that's not the same as up-ing packages to PPAs
19:16 <bluesabre-tmp> yeah, but with -dev we can verify things before they get pushed
19:16 <ochosi> bluesabre-tmp: i don't mind, but it increases the workload
19:16 <bluesabre-tmp> yeah
19:16 <elfy> but with -dev then things would take ages to get on the ppa
19:16 <knome> i would vote for -dev, we shouldn't make it too easy to "mess up" with PPA's
19:16 <ochosi> and might get ppl to just push stuff to their private PPAs
19:17 <knome> elfy, not really, currently ochosi and bluesabre-tmp are members
19:17 <bluesabre-tmp> ^
19:17 <elfy> mmm
19:17 <knome> i'd also suggest at least thinking to add Unit193 and Noskcaj
19:17 <bluesabre-tmp> +2
19:17 <elfy> well - most of the things that I ended up testing weren't by any of those that have been named
19:17 <Unit193> bluesabre-tmp: You've been rejected. :(
19:18 <knome> ochosi, do you think there would be people who we'd like/trust to push to the PPA, but don't want to give "all branches" permissions?
19:18 <elfy> so I would STILL end up with a personall PPA
19:18 <slickymaster> brainwash made a few
19:18 <ochosi> knome: brainwash has only been around for one cycle, but he put lots of stuff in his PPA for testing
19:18 <Unit193> slickymaster: They could be pretty quickly copied.
19:18 <knome> elfy, the point is, those people weren't in that team when we needed them to be
19:18 <bluesabre-tmp> yeah, we can sponsor ppa uploads as needed
19:18 <ochosi> right
19:19 <knome> so we've been bottlenecking on that
19:19 <knome> i don't mind another team, if there is justification for it
19:19 <Unit193> ochosi: We'd want to make sure to stress to the packagers to not go willie-nillie with it.
19:19 <bluesabre-tmp> +1
19:19 <knome> i just don't want yet another one just because we have one more task to do
19:19 <ochosi> Unit193: sure, i agree
19:19 <knome> if we can delegate that to one of the current teams, great
19:19 <knome> bluesabre-tmp, not sure what you're +1'ing ;)
19:19 <ochosi> well as long as it's not just bluesabre-tmp and me reviewing the PPA, i'm fine with -dev
19:19 <Unit193> (Could almost use -team. :P )
19:19 <knome> Unit193, almost, but not really...
19:20 <ochosi> i just wanted to ensure that things are not slowed down because ppl are busy with stuff
19:20 <elfy> ochosi: which is my worry - at that point do we gain anything
19:20 <amigamagic> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10844
19:20 <ubottu> bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10844 in Window Buttons "Visual feedback for grouped windows in the panel (tasklist windows buttons plugin)" [Enhancement,New]
19:20 <knome> how many of the team are around?
19:20 <elfy> amigamagic: not now please
19:20 <knome> amigamagic, can you please take it up after the meeting
19:20 <ochosi> so if Unit193 and Noskcaj get added to -dev and agree to help reviewing and managing that i'm fine with that
19:21 <knome> we might just have quorum
19:21 <knome> (to vote)
19:21 <amigamagic> sorry, I don't know there was a meeting
19:21 <knome> team members, raise your hand
19:21 <knome> o/
19:21 <ochosi> o/
19:21 <GridCube> i don't understand lp mechanics so i dont feel qualified to vote
19:21 <elfy> o/
19:21 <slickymaster> o/
19:21 <bluesabre-tmp> o/
19:21 <GridCube> o/
19:21 <Unit193> \o
19:21 <knome> one more?
19:22 <jjfrv8-work> o/
19:22 <ochosi> Unit193: always the funny one, eh? ;)
19:22 <knome> great
19:22 <Unit193> ochosi: Yep, pretty much.
19:22 <ochosi> hehe
19:22 <knome> so, should we vote about this?
19:22 <ochosi> why not
19:22 <knome> (-dev vs. new team)
19:22 <knome> or do people need more information?
19:22 <slickymaster> Ithink so
19:22 <slickymaster> let's vote it
19:22 <ochosi> although, for me it depends on how many ppl are in -dv
19:22 <ochosi> -dev i mean
19:22 <elfy> knome: 2 of the people on -team weren't about for more or less the whole cycle
19:23 <ochosi> and how many want to help with that work
19:23 <knome> elfy, yeah, but we have quorum even with them counting ;)
19:23 <knome> let's make an assumption:
19:23 <Unit193> Also, just because you technically can push to the branches, doesn't mean you should or will.
19:23 <knome> approximately 2 of the people in -dev are always around
19:24 <knome> #vote Team for official testing PPA's: +1 for -dev, -1 for something else
19:24 <meetingology> Please vote on: Team for official testing PPA's: +1 for -dev, -1 for something else
19:24 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
19:24 <bluesabre-tmp> (good thing Unit193 does not sleep)
19:24 <knome> team members can vote.
19:24 <GridCube> +0
19:24 <meetingology> +0 received from GridCube
19:24 <elfy> +1
19:24 <meetingology> +1 received from elfy
19:24 <knome> if you want, you should be able to private vote.
19:24 <slickymaster> +1
19:24 <meetingology> +1 received from slickymaster
19:24 <GridCube> again, i dont feel qualified to say one way or the other
19:24 <bluesabre-tmp> +1
19:24 <meetingology> +1 received from bluesabre-tmp
19:24 <jjfrv8-work> +1
19:24 <meetingology> +1 received from jjfrv8-work
19:24 <knome> +1
19:24 <meetingology> +1 received from knome
19:25 <Unit193> +0
19:25 <meetingology> +0 received from Unit193
19:25 <ochosi> +0
19:25 <meetingology> +0 received from ochosi
19:26 <knome> do we still miss one?
19:26 <knome> no
19:26 <knome> #endvote
19:26 <meetingology> Voting ended on: Team for official testing PPA's: +1 for -dev, -1 for something else
19:26 <meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:3
19:26 <meetingology> Motion carried
19:26 <knome> technically we should carry on the motion
19:27 <knome> but since it's ochosi's work item...
19:27 <ochosi> anyway, i hope this doesnt end up in lots of review-work that ends up not getting done cause it's annoying
19:27 <knome> right
19:27 <ochosi> but let's carry on and hope it goes well :)
19:27 <GridCube> :)
19:28 <elfy> +1 to that
19:28 <knome> #agreed Testing PPA's to be added under ~xubuntu-dev. Reassess if it adds too much workload/creates a bottleneck.
19:28 <Unit193> ochosi: Around after the meeting?
19:28 <ochosi> i'd actually prefer starting with a single ppa
19:28 <ochosi> Unit193: yup
19:28 <knome> ochosi, sure sure, single or multiple PPA's
19:28 <knome> :)
19:28 <ochosi> e.g. "xubuntu+1"
19:28 <knome> that's up for members in -dev to decide ;)
19:29 <ochosi> right
19:29 <knome> #topic Documentation lead change
19:29 <knome> so, here's were we're standing
19:29 <ochosi> +h
19:29 <knome> yes...
19:29 <knome> thanks.
19:30 <knome> as discussed, jjfrv8-work wanted to step down from the doc lead position. that would take effect now.
19:30 <knome> jjfrv8-work, THANKS!
19:30 <Unit193> :(
19:30 <elfy> jjfrv8-work: thanks for what you have done for us all :)
19:30 <GridCube> :) thanks yes
19:30 <jjfrv8-work> thank you all
19:31 <knome> but also as discussed, we planned to replace him with slickymaster starting from the U cycle, if he was still up for it and the team agreed
19:31 <Unit193> jjfrv8-work: Indeed, bummer to see you go.
19:31 <ochosi> thanks a lot jjfrv8-work
19:31 <ochosi> jjfrv8-work: very sad to see you go :/
19:31 <slickymaster> yes jjfrv8-work, thanks for a splendid work
19:31 <knome> i've asked slickymaster earlier today, and he said he'd still be up for it
19:31 <ochosi> weeee
19:31 <knome> let's do a quick vote for that.
19:31 <ochosi> jjfrv8-work: will you still keep contributing?
19:31 <jjfrv8-work> absolutely
19:31 <Unit193> I think both knome and slickymaster make sense, considering how much both you did with it.
19:32 <ochosi> good
19:32 <knome> #vote Appoint slickymaster as the new documentation lead? (-team members can vote)
19:32 <meetingology> Please vote on: Appoint slickymaster as the new documentation lead? (-team members can vote)
19:32 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
19:32 <knome> +1
19:32 <meetingology> +1 received from knome
19:32 <elfy> +1
19:32 <meetingology> +1 received from elfy
19:32 <ochosi> +1
19:32 <meetingology> +1 received from ochosi
19:32 <Unit193> +1
19:32 <meetingology> +1 received from Unit193
19:32 <jjfrv8-work> +1
19:32 <meetingology> +1 received from jjfrv8-work
19:32 <knome> slickymaster, btw, you are free to vote.
19:32 <slickymaster> +0
19:32 <meetingology> +0 received from slickymaster
19:32 <elfy> :)
19:32 <slickymaster> :P
19:32 <bluesabre-tmp> +1
19:32 <meetingology> +1 received from bluesabre-tmp
19:33 <ochosi> slickymaster: how modest ;)
19:33 <knome> GridCube, poke
19:33 <GridCube> +1
19:33 <meetingology> +1 received from GridCube
19:33 <knome> #endvote
19:33 <meetingology> Voting ended on: Appoint slickymaster as the new documentation lead? (-team members can vote)
19:33 <meetingology> Votes for:7 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
19:33 <meetingology> Motion carried
19:33 <ochosi> congrats slickymaster
19:33 <slickymaster> ochosi: modest or fearful?
19:33 <ochosi> :>
19:33 <elfy> fearful :p
19:33 <knome> #info Taking effect immediately, David Pires (slickymaster) is the new Xubuntu documentation lead.
19:34 <knome> #action knome to work with appropriate (past) leaders to update the Leaders wikipage today
19:34 * meetingology knome to work with appropriate (past) leaders to update the Leaders wikipage today
19:34 <knome> pleia2, still not around?
19:35 <knome> ok, let's move on
19:35 <knome> #topic Using the project money (gathered from Linux Identity articles)
19:35 <knome> there was discussing about this, but nothing has actually happened
19:36 <knome> i'm proposing the following:
19:36 <knome> pleia2 printed some "xp to xubuntu" flyers recently
19:36 <knome> let's cover her printing costs
19:36 <GridCube> sure
19:36 <ochosi> +1
19:36 <elfy> agreed
19:36 <slickymaster> +1
19:36 <knome> #vote Cover pleia2's printing costs? (-team can vote)
19:36 <meetingology> Please vote on: Cover pleia2's printing costs? (-team can vote)
19:36 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
19:36 <knome> +1
19:36 <meetingology> +1 received from knome
19:36 <elfy> +1
19:36 <meetingology> +1 received from elfy
19:36 <jjfrv8-work> +1
19:36 <meetingology> +1 received from jjfrv8-work
19:36 <ochosi> +1
19:36 <meetingology> +1 received from ochosi
19:36 <GridCube> +1
19:36 <meetingology> +1 received from GridCube
19:37 <knome> (let's do it the official way..)
19:37 <slickymaster> +1
19:37 <meetingology> +1 received from slickymaster
19:37 <knome> bluesabre-tmp, Unit193
19:37 <knome> want to vote? :P
19:37 <bluesabre-tmp> +1
19:37 <meetingology> +1 received from bluesabre-tmp
19:38 <knome> #endvote
19:38 <meetingology> Voting ended on: Cover pleia2's printing costs? (-team can vote)
19:38 <meetingology> Votes for:7 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
19:38 <meetingology> Motion carried
19:38 <slickymaster> Unit193: finally fell asleep
19:38 <bluesabre-tmp> :D
19:38 <Unit193> Hah.
19:38 <GridCube> and you went and waked him up
19:38 <knome> #action pleia2 to follow up with the exact amount with knome, who shall paypal the money to her
19:38 * meetingology pleia2 to follow up with the exact amount with knome, who shall paypal the money to her
19:38 <knome> we will still have stuff left
19:39 <knome> is there anything else anybody thinks we should use it for?
19:39 <GridCube> o/
19:39 <knome> GridCube, yes?
19:39 <GridCube> my always recurring topic
19:39 <Unit193> He meant pay him.
19:39 <knome> heh.
19:39 <ochosi> :)
19:39 <GridCube> we dont have a wallaper of the week thing done yet
19:40 <GridCube> or desktop of the week rather
19:40 <knome> GridCube, err, do we need money for that?
19:40 <GridCube> no
19:40 <GridCube> i waht
19:40 <GridCube> XD sorry
19:40 <knome> then focus! ;)
19:40 <Unit193> knome: To pay you off?
19:40 <knome> hah.
19:40 <GridCube> i missread
19:40 <knome> since we've had it for $quite_long, i would propose the following...
19:40 <knome> pay elfy for his headset he bought to be able to take part in vUDS
19:40 <GridCube> :)
19:40 <Unit193> Xfce take donations?
19:41 <knome> Unit193, i guess, but what's the point, they aren't very active? :|
19:41 <elfy> really really don't want that - thanks though :)
19:41 <knome> ok, then let's not vote
19:41 <knome> i was just thinking... :)
19:41 <elfy> thanks for the thought :)
19:41 <knome> i can keep the money on hold still, but i'd rather get it moving sooner or later
19:41 <bluesabre-tmp> any server costs that xubuntu eats?
19:41 <ochosi> not really
19:41 <Unit193> knome: Still wouldn't be here without them, even though I'd like them to be active I'm thankful that they're still there.
19:41 <ochosi> xfce still can't accept donations i think
19:41 <ochosi> but i can work on that
19:41 <knome> bluesabre-tmp, shimmer is hosted on xfce
19:42 <knome> bluesabre-tmp, but that's not exactly xubuntu
19:42 <knome> and i doubt it adds to their costs..
19:42 <ochosi> not really, i think xfce is mostly hosted gratuitiosly
19:42 <knome> is anybody linked with loco teams that could do something cool xubuntu-related?
19:42 <pleia2> thanks guys
19:42 <elfy> hi pleia2
19:42 <bluesabre-tmp> skellat
19:43 <pleia2> sorry, was at an appointment
19:43 <knome> pleia2, PM me the amount and your paypal addy and i'll get it done today
19:43 <Unit193> knome: OLF is coming up, yes.
19:43 <knome> do we want a big xubuntu banner?
19:43 <ochosi> knome: what about bug bounty?
19:44 <knome> is that useful, or do we always go under ubuntu anyway?
19:44 <knome> ochosi, for what bug? :)
19:44 <ochosi> the lid suspend bug?
19:44 <ochosi> any bug that is pressing
19:44 <ochosi> or even features
19:44 <ochosi> it has become quite popular recently in foss projects
19:44 <ochosi> and i think it works as a motivation
19:44 <ochosi> and as a reward other than the vocal praise for ppl who actually do stuff
19:44 <knome> i'm fine with that
19:45 <ochosi> they can still decide to donate the money back
19:45 <ochosi> or to another bug
19:45 <knome> if there isn't anything that needs "covering" now, let's hold the money
19:45 <ochosi> we don't have to spend it all on one bug
19:45 <knome> ideas always welcome
19:45 <ochosi> ok
19:46 <knome> #topic Review and discuss team reporting
19:46 <knome> pleia2! :)
19:46 <pleia2> oh yes
19:46 <pleia2> so I've really just been copying the action items from meetings into our team reports
19:46 <pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports
19:46 <pleia2> March is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports/14/March
19:47 <ochosi> pleia2: thanks, a lot better than having to write them ;)
19:47 <pleia2> indeed!
19:47 <knome> yes, that's an improvement
19:47 <pleia2> I think it's going ok :)
19:47 <knome> now if #done only worked...
19:47 <pleia2> heh, right
19:49 <knome> well, let's use it
19:49 <knome> actually not
19:49 <pleia2> anyway, I think we're ok continuing this for the time being, unless anyone else wants to do more work on reports
19:49 <knome> but money is sent to pleia2, and $0.40 fee covered by the xubuntu team ;)
19:49 <elfy> :)
19:49 <ochosi> pleia2: +1
19:49 <pleia2> thanks
19:49 <ochosi> thanks for doing that
19:50 <knome> yeah, thanks
19:50 <knome> we should probably mention it in the processes page that the one adding the meeting minutes should also update the team updates page.
19:50 <knome> and if it's the first meeting of the month, cycle the monthly pages
19:51 <knome> #topic Use a common area for detailed discussions notes such as Trello
19:51 <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/U/Trello%20Communication
19:51 <knome> elfy,
19:51 <Unit193> I tended to ignore it. :/
19:51 <knome> Unit193, wait, when did you add the meeting minutes? ;)
19:52 <slickymaster> I felt it useful
19:52 * GridCube leaves
19:52 <pleia2> if it's valuable to folks, I think trello is lovely to use, but I have my own todo lists so "update trello" tends to land there :)
19:52 <elfy> ok - so I was just thinking about us communicating a bit better - I spent a lot of time last cycle - going over the same ground - I really don't want to do that again
19:52 <knome> besides, that link is bogus
19:52 <slickymaster> and elfy and I did use it quite a lot in -qa
19:52 <ochosi> yeah, trello is very good to use
19:52 <elfy> and it worked for those of -qa that did use it
19:52 <bluesabre-tmp> elfy, you should harrass everyone with !team
19:52 <bluesabre-tmp> :D
19:52 <knome> elfy, is it about communication about "what do we need to do (generally)" ?
19:53 <elfy> why?
19:53 <knome> elfy, or specific action items people need to take?
19:53 <ochosi> even for managing progress, i'd actually prefer it to the clunky blueprints on launchpad (if it were integrated in launchpad)
19:53 <knome> the positive side to LP is the good status page.
19:53 <elfy> it's more general - there's not anywhere other than blueprints to actually write anything - and that would soon be a nightmare
19:54 <Unit193> ochosi: Nah, if it were on LP, it'd be far slower.
19:54 <knome> elfy, want to expand the spec for next week?
19:54 <ochosi> Unit193: hehe, yeah, there we go :p
19:54 <knome> elfy, eg. briefly cover what we would use it for, and maybe some action screenshots
19:54 <elfy> ok
19:54 <knome> cheers
19:55 <ochosi> cool
19:55 <elfy> but if we don't do that - we do need to do something
19:55 <knome> #action elfy to extend the Trello spec, discussion to follow
19:55 * meetingology elfy to extend the Trello spec, discussion to follow
19:55 <knome> elfy, yep, anything that works for the team :)
19:55 <ochosi> trellolo
19:55 <knome> okay, and now the item you have all been waiting for
19:55 <knome> #topic Project future: New project lead, council, or something else?
19:55 <ochosi> incecream?
19:56 <knome> wb Unit193 ;)
19:56 <ochosi> Unit193: feeling so nervous..?
19:56 <elfy> too late - we voted Unit193 in :p
19:56 <knome> you have just voted the next XPL
19:56 <knome> yep
19:56 <knome> too bad :|
19:56 <knome> joking aside...
19:56 <pleia2> lol
19:56 <knome> i think we should organize a call for XPL nominations
19:56 <slickymaster> the decison was taken long ago in the backstages
19:57 <pleia2> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-team/+members
19:57 <knome> there's a specific reason why i say this...
19:57 <elfy> knome: and how long will we wait for that
19:57 <knome> i'll do the call at latest on monday
19:57 <pleia2> now that our team is more than 4 people, I think we could actually support a small council if we wanted to go that route
19:57 <knome> then some time to gather nominations
19:57 * knome refrains from disclosing the reason
19:57 <knome> ...but other people can.
19:58 * elfy thinks we should have called earlier
19:58 <knome> elfy, would have been madness to do that during the release
19:58 <ochosi> +1
19:58 <knome> it has always gone like this
19:58 <ochosi> elfy: knome is still here ;)
19:58 <elfy> yea - I know that :)
19:58 <ochosi> so it's his problem if there's no new xpl, he'll just have to stay :D
19:58 <pleia2> time machines ftw
19:58 <knome> hah
19:59 <knome> well, if no nominations are sent...
19:59 <knome> then we will have to investigate other options
19:59 * pleia2 nods
19:59 <ochosi> after loooong consideration and discussions...
19:59 <knome> but as pleia2 said... yes, we could sustain a council
20:00 <ochosi> i've started to consider applying for the terrible terrible burden that knome has been carrying for us
20:00 <knome> :)
20:00 <pleia2> :D
20:00 <Unit193> Well that could solve that.
20:00 <ochosi> there were a few subsequent discussions with bluesabre
20:00 <ochosi> (who unfortunately left the meeting as it seems)
20:01 <ochosi> so anyway, we can talk about that when he's around again i guess
20:01 <knome> yeah
20:01 <knome> anyway... i would very much like to see a "single" XPL instead of council
20:01 <knome> hey bluesabre-tmp!
20:01 <ochosi> oh, speak of the devil
20:02 <elfy> I would prefer to see a single one as well if we can
20:02 <pleia2> knome: me too!
20:02 <knome> i would also say that we need to lessen the burden
20:02 <ochosi> yes, ok, so now that bluesabre-tmp is around again
20:02 <bluesabre-tmp> ok, what did I miss?
20:02 <knome> if at all possible
20:02 <knome> bluesabre-tmp, you're the new XPL
20:02 <knome> bluesabre-tmp, just voted on that
20:02 <pleia2> haha
20:02 <ochosi> bluesabre-tmp: i can pastebin you the backlog
20:02 <bluesabre-tmp> O.o
20:02 <ochosi> or you can check the online-log
20:02 <slickymaster> ochosi propsed you and we all agreed
20:03 <bluesabre-tmp> ochosi: sure, trying to navigate as little as possible since I'm testhering on my phone
20:03 <slickymaster> *proposed
20:04 <pleia2> seriously though, knome will do call for nominations by monday
20:04 <elfy> knome: so how will we lessen the burden?
20:04 <knome> pasted to bluesabre-tmp's PM
20:04 <knome> so basically,
20:04 <knome> well that's one of the things to do imo ^
20:04 <knome> we need to rethink "who" is it who does all the heavy lifting
20:04 <knome> to me, it feels natural that the -release team had a bit more responsbility, but also power
20:04 <knome> yes, i will.
20:04 <knome> release team could take some of the paperwork
20:05 <knome> that is, filing exception bugs
20:05 <knome> i've been cooperating a lot in -release, and have been happy to see elfy do that as well
20:06 <elfy> they're not too bad in there ;)
20:06 <bluesabre-tmp> :)
20:06 <knome> maybe there could be team members who would make sure the blueprints are up-to-date
20:06 <knome> or whatever method we are using
20:06 <elfy> can't team leads do their blueprints?
20:06 <knome> ideally, all people would manage their own work items
20:06 <pleia2> yeah, I could do a much better job of my blueprints
20:06 <knome> sure, that works as well if it... works
20:07 <ochosi> yeah, i think it's hard to formalize that process
20:07 <ochosi> i mean we can say, we create a subset of ppl who handle blueprints
20:07 <knome> ochosi, since you have been pondering this, is there something else you are afraid of?
20:07 <elfy> well I'm happy enough to do qa ones
20:07 <knome> i don't think it's a bad idea that everybody *can*
20:07 <ochosi> after thinking more about it, not that much
20:07 <ochosi> there's just stuff that you've been doing that i haven't done often (like chairing meetings)
20:07 <knome> if a work item is assigned to [user], user should make sure it's updated
20:07 <ochosi> and you're irc-ier than me
20:08 <knome> for chairing meetings, i'd really love to see a rotating chair or something
20:08 <ochosi> yeah...
20:08 <ochosi> would be cool
20:08 * elfy hates driving the bot
20:08 <ochosi> :)
20:08 <knome> i guess nobody likes it
20:08 <ochosi> i assume that too
20:08 <elfy> it drives on the wrong side of the road :p
20:08 <bluesabre-tmp> I'm usually not able to make it to these mettings
20:09 <bluesabre-tmp> *meetings
20:09 <knome> bluesabre-tmp, then we should reschedule
20:09 <Unit193> I tend to miss the beginning.
20:09 <knome> i've no problem with varying meeting times
20:09 <knome> we can even let the chair mostly decide the time.
20:09 <ochosi> yeah
20:09 <ochosi> we can have them cycle around a bit
20:09 <knome> well take all team leaders, or team members
20:09 <ochosi> to make sure all team members can attend once a month at least
20:09 <bluesabre-tmp> hm, this sounds like a good idea
20:09 <knome> cycle through them evenly
20:10 <knome> when it's your turn, schedule how you wish
20:10 <knome> and others will, or won't, be available
20:10 <elfy> mmm not sure about that
20:10 <ochosi> makes chairing more comfortable
20:10 <knome> it's not a huge issue that everybody is not being able to make it
20:10 <knome> we have the meeting minutes
20:10 <knome> and we have the mailing list
20:10 <slickymaster> is there any channel where one could do some sort of testdrives knome?
20:10 <ochosi> yeah, and ppl are around anyway
20:10 <knome> slickymaster, #meetingology
20:10 <slickymaster> ok
20:11 <knome> elfy, express your concerns :)
20:11 * elfy test drives the bot in FC meetings sometimes
20:11 <elfy> hang on - just getting the words right :)
20:12 <elfy> I'd worry about meetings at that point end up being empty - nothing would get done
20:12 <elfy> in time
20:12 <knome> well,
20:12 <knome> it'd be good practice to make sure at least somebody is able to make it ;)
20:12 <elfy> how about a straw poll with a doodle poll of general times
20:12 <knome> we've done that too many times IMO
20:12 <knome> any time always seems to be perfect
20:12 <knome> then when we start running the meetings at that time, people can't come
20:13 <knome> which is one of the reason why i think a "moving target" could work just as well...
20:13 <ochosi> +1
20:13 <elfy> second thought - a -team mailing list - at least then we'd be able to have targetted discussions
20:13 <bluesabre-tmp> +1
20:13 <knome> elfy, i could +1 that
20:13 <bluesabre-tmp> I like that idea
20:13 <knome> would *only* team members be allowed to send?
20:13 <elfy> yep
20:14 <elfy> like a 'council' list
20:14 <knome> because if not, soon it would become xubuntu-dev-team-please-include-libreoffice
20:14 <ochosi> huhu
20:14 <elfy> exactly
20:14 <bluesabre-tmp> hah
20:14 <knome> what do others think?
20:15 <knome> pleia2, i know you're opposed to redundant infrastructure, so i want your opinion
20:15 <elfy> then at that point - we'd have 'votes' on issues that can be taken to meetings whatever time they are
20:15 <ochosi> we can give it a try
20:15 <elfy> or
20:16 <knome> #action knome to send a call for new XPL's to the -devel mailing list
20:16 * meetingology knome to send a call for new XPL's to the -devel mailing list
20:16 <knome> elfy, yeah?
20:16 <elfy> if we do go to something like trello - we could make that private
20:16 <knome> well, that's a bit meh
20:16 <knome> or maybe not
20:16 <bluesabre-tmp> trello does do emails notifications
20:16 <elfy> yea
20:16 <knome> bluesabre-tmp, yeah, but is it about all changes?
20:16 <knome> i don't want dumb diffs :(
20:17 <knome> i want well-written, thought out mails
20:17 <bluesabre-tmp> it's "hey, you've missed 4 updates!"
20:17 <elfy> knome: that
20:17 <slickymaster> theoretically elfy's idea has potential
20:17 <bluesabre-tmp> I know because ochosi keep updating a trello that I should be contributing to
20:17 <knome> bluesabre-tmp, yeah, that's just email "crap"
20:17 <knome> even if it was about meaningful things
20:17 <elfy> I'd be inclined to m/l rather than trello for team stuff though
20:18 <knome> another idea is
20:18 <knome> add some moderators and take out the whip at -devel mailing list
20:18 * Unit193 would be a bad choice.
20:18 <elfy> don't like that idea
20:18 <knome> we can make people's mails autoadded to moderation queue by email address
20:18 <knome> i think we need to do $something for the -devel list nonetheless
20:19 <knome> especially if we create a -team mailing list
20:19 <knome> because at that point, -devel could very easily turn into -feature-requests
20:19 <knome> i'm still waiting for any input from pleia2 :)
20:20 <pleia2> sorry
20:20 <knome> np
20:20 <elfy> not really - most of the stuff that goes to -devel is general
20:20 <elfy> ly what it should be - call's etc
20:20 <knome> elfy, most of the stuff there now is stuff that could be in -users
20:20 <pleia2> it's not like -devel is overwhelming
20:20 <slickymaster> yes, it could perfectley land on xubuntu mailing list
20:20 <knome> well, most of the stuff by non-team-members..
20:20 <elfy> since release I'd agree
20:21 <knome> do we want to design a tag for team communication?
20:21 <knome> pleia2, ^
20:21 <elfy> pleia2: what we were discussing was a new private m/l for -team
20:21 <pleia2> elfy: yeah
20:21 <knome> i know anybody can use that, but...
20:21 <knome> might be possible to autosend to moderation queue if it's not from team member emails
20:22 <pleia2> so launchpad makes it very easy for us to create a private list there
20:22 <elfy> knome: well - I did for a while mail the list with [TEAM] in the subject
20:22 <knome> pleia2, launchpad lists are meh.
20:22 <ochosi> holy crap, there is a scorpion in our appartment (no kidding!)
20:22 <elfy> got a couple of replies
20:22 <ochosi> bbabl
20:22 <elfy> good lord
20:22 <pleia2> knome: I don't know that we'd need it for a lot anyway :) mostly we just talk here tbh
20:22 <knome> pleia2, i'd just make IS create another
20:22 <bluesabre-tmp> ochosi is not going to make it
20:22 <knome> well, related to this
20:23 <knome> it was brought up by lionel (mrpouit) that it's getting harder and harder for him to follow/help with development since he's now a lot less in IRC
20:23 <Unit193> Uhh.  I'm still stuck at where he said "scorpion"...
20:23 <knome> so i think we are being (partly unconsciously) in exclusive
20:23 <knome> -in
20:24 <knome> pleia2, send meeting minutes there?
20:24 <knome> pleia2, run votes there
20:24 <pleia2> sure
20:24 <knome> let's do a quick, non-finally-decisive vote
20:25 <elfy> knome:
20:25 <Logan_> yes hello is this a meeting thing
20:25 <knome> to get a general idea what people think
20:25 <knome> Logan_, yes, very much
20:25 <knome> elfy,
20:25 <elfy> if we went to -team m/l we could have -release team as the moderators
20:25 <bluesabre-tmp> hey Logan_ :)
20:25 <bluesabre-tmp> oh yeah, knome, my -release is about to expire, and it said to message you
20:25 <elfy> or something - so it's not just another XPL task
20:26 <knome> elfy, yes, though we wouldn't need much
20:26 <elfy> bluesabre-tmp: he knows :)
20:26 <knome> bluesabre-tmp, yep, just a sec
20:26 <bluesabre-tmp> :)
20:26 <elfy> knome: nope - just when people move in and out of -team
20:26 <elfy> but yea a quick vote wfm
20:26 <knome> #vote Create xubuntu-team mailing list or not? (non-final voting, just gathering general thoughts)
20:26 <meetingology> Please vote on: Create xubuntu-team mailing list or not? (non-final voting, just gathering general thoughts)
20:26 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
20:26 <knome> +1
20:26 <meetingology> +1 received from knome
20:26 <elfy> +1
20:26 <meetingology> +1 received from elfy
20:26 <bluesabre-tmp> +1
20:26 <meetingology> +1 received from bluesabre-tmp
20:27 <slickymaster> +1
20:27 <meetingology> +1 received from slickymaster
20:27 <pleia2> +0
20:27 <meetingology> +0 received from pleia2
20:28 <knome> bluesabre-tmp, elfy: i've extended you for a month in -release, until we get a new XPL/council/something
20:28 <bluesabre-tmp> knome: thanks
20:28 <knome> bluesabre-tmp, elfy: let's reassess the situation at that point
20:28 <elfy> ok - ta
20:28 <knome> other team members?
20:29 <knome> #action knome to send a mail about creating a xubuntu-team mailing list
20:29 * meetingology knome to send a mail about creating a xubuntu-team mailing list
20:29 <knome> #endvote
20:29 <meetingology> Voting ended on: Create xubuntu-team mailing list or not? (non-final voting, just gathering general thoughts)
20:29 <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
20:29 <meetingology> Motion carried
20:29 <knome> ok, finally..
20:29 <knome> #subtopic Team leaders
20:30 <knome> ochosi, pleia2, elfy: you fine to continue with your leader hats? :)
20:30 <elfy> yep
20:30 * knome bows to elfy
20:30 <pleia2> sure
20:30 <elfy> as long as people are ok with it of course
20:30 * knome bows to pleia2
20:30 <pleia2> knome: we should chat re: website at some point though, if you are no xpl, you may want that hat :)
20:30 <knome> i don't think we are generally voting about (non-project) team leads
20:30 <knome> pleia2, we can
20:30 <knome> i don't want anything in 6 months
20:31 <knome> but i'm by tentatively open for stuff after that
20:31 <bluesabre-tmp> I'd be willing to apply for technical lead, not sure if others are currently interested
20:32 <knome> mhm,
20:32 <knome> i would approve that direction
20:32 <knome> having a technical lead that's around would also help with the XPL burden
20:33 * pleia2 nods
20:33 <Unit193> bluesabre-tmp: Get uploader rights. ;)
20:33 <knome> i'm all open for other nomiations as well, but i'd say it's a big pro if you are actually around.
20:34 <bluesabre-tmp> Unit193: yeah, thats the next step
20:34 <knome> #action New XPL/council to run a call for a new technical lead
20:34 * meetingology New XPL/council to run a call for a new technical lead
20:34 <knome> hmpf.
20:34 <knome> #undo
20:34 <meetingology> Removing item from minutes: ACTION
20:34 <knome> #action new-xpl: New XPL/council to run a call for a new technical lead
20:34 * meetingology new-xpl: New XPL/council to run a call for a new technical lead
20:35 <knome> #nick new-xpl
20:35 <knome> #topic Other issues
20:35 <knome> anything else?
20:36 <knome> yeah, i think we are done and all exhausted :)
20:36 <knome> #topic Next meeting
20:36 <elfy> now't from me for sure
20:36 <bluesabre-tmp> in 5 minutes
20:36 <bluesabre-tmp> :>
20:36 <knome> hah
20:36 <pleia2> I'm gone next week
20:36 <knome> i might be away @may 1 too
20:37 <knome> is *monday* a bad day for people?
20:37 <knome> that is, may 5
20:37 <slickymaster> I'll be away between april 30th and may 5th
20:37 <elfy> fine for me
20:37 <knome> slickymaster, including 5, or not?
20:37 <bluesabre-tmp> good for e
20:37 <pleia2> I'm gone then too :)
20:37 <bluesabre-tmp> cinco de mayo
20:37 <slickymaster> excluding knome
20:37 <knome> mhm
20:37 <knome> well what about tuseday may 6?
20:37 <slickymaster> workday the 5th
20:37 <knome> pleia2, better? :P
20:38 <pleia2> nope
20:38 <pleia2> I'm back on wednesday :D
20:38 <knome> hah
20:38 <knome> let's do email stuff then
20:38 <knome> and have a meeting on thursday
20:39 <knome> the regular time
20:39 <pleia2> k
20:39 <knome> #info Next meeting: May 8, 19 UTC
20:39 <knome> let's hope we have XPL submission mostly in by that
20:39 <knome> can not quite be, because need 2 weeks
20:39 <knome> (iirc)
20:39 <knome> anyway, thanks!
20:39 <knome> #endmeeting