16:00 <knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
16:00 <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Nov 28 16:00:37 2013 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
16:00 <meetingology> 
16:00 <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
16:00 <knome> pop up your hand up if you're around
16:00 <pleia2> o/
16:00 <skellat> o/
16:01 <jjfrv8> o/
16:01 <ali1234> o/
16:01 <micahg> o/
16:01 <knome> cool :)
16:01 <knome> ochosi, GridCube, brainwash: hullo
16:01 <knome> #topic Items carried on
16:01 <brainwash> o/
16:01 <knome> #subtopic Open action items from previous meeting
16:01 <knome> #action knome to prepare the website for the desktop of the week
16:01 * meetingology knome to prepare the website for the desktop of the week
16:02 <knome> TBD
16:02 <knome> #action micahg to talk to barry about python2.7/3 situation
16:02 * meetingology micahg to talk to barry about python2.7/3 situation
16:02 <knome> micahg, status? :)
16:02 <micahg> oops
16:02 <knome> heh, np
16:02 <micahg> I think I forgot
16:03 <knome> let's carry that on then
16:03 <ochosi> o/
16:03 <knome> #action micahg to upload whiskermenu to xfce PPAs
16:03 * meetingology micahg to upload whiskermenu to xfce PPAs
16:03 <knome> micahg, ?
16:03 <ochosi> (sorry, that was a late popping up of the hand)
16:03 <knome> or was that done by mr_pouit
16:03 <skellat> whiskermenu is in archive for trusty
16:03 <knome> #info Done, whiskermenu is in the archive for trusty.
16:04 <knome> #subtopic Strategy Document reviewing
16:04 <micahg> 4.10 PPA times out for me
16:04 <ochosi> lp ftw
16:04 <skellat> I've got whiskermenu backported in ppa:skellat/tests
16:04 <GridCube> o/
16:04 <skellat> And am playing with it on 12.04.3 at the moment
16:04 <micahg> I could upload whiskermenu right now if someone tells me which releases and if it's the 4.12 PPA
16:04 <ochosi> skellat: there should also be an official PPA by the whiskermenu dev
16:04 <knome> have people had time to look at the new strategy document?
16:05 <knome> ochosi, micahg: can you get to that after the meeting or in PM; thanks for taking care though :)
16:05 <GridCube> i have read it before and i don't have anything to say against it
16:05 <jjfrv8> knome, I have, but it was a while ago. I'm okay with it.
16:05 <knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2013-November/009413.html
16:05 <knome> that's the link to the mail that links the new branch
16:06 <micahg> I have not had a chance to review it
16:06 <knome> sent on nov 5
16:06 <knome> micahg, basically:
16:06 <knome> (and others:)
16:06 <knome> 1) only allow members of ~xubuntu-team to vote for the new XPL
16:06 <knome> 2) strip out the process descriptions, move to wiki/Xubuntu/Processes (done already)
16:06 <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Processes
16:07 <knome> pleia2 can confirm i'm not tricking you, she worked with the later update with me
16:07 <pleia2> indeed
16:07 <pleia2> knome didn't want to be xpl forever, so we left that part out
16:07 <ochosi> i'm also fine with it
16:08 <GridCube> yes, as i said, i've read it, i don't see why its needed or relevant, but im ok with the changes
16:08 <knome> we are much shorter now, and i hope the SD can be much more useful this way for daily development
16:08 <knome> let's vote.
16:08 <micahg> I don't want to get any shorter :P
16:09 <knome> #vote Approve proposed Strategy Document (+1) or not (-1); members of -team can vote
16:09 <meetingology> Please vote on: Approve proposed Strategy Document (+1) or not (-1); members of -team can vote
16:09 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
16:09 <ochosi> +1
16:09 <meetingology> +1 received from ochosi
16:09 <knome> +0
16:09 <meetingology> +0 received from knome
16:09 <jjfrv8> +1
16:09 <meetingology> +1 received from jjfrv8
16:09 <GridCube> +0
16:09 <meetingology> +0 received from GridCube
16:09 <pleia2> +1
16:09 <meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
16:09 <skellat> -1
16:09 <meetingology> -1 received from skellat
16:09 <knome> skellat, can you argument?
16:09 <micahg> +1
16:09 <meetingology> +1 received from micahg
16:10 <skellat> We need to loosen up unsuitable packages a little considering the amount of stuff Ubuntu mainline is producing in Python
16:10 <skellat> Which is an interpreted language
16:10 <knome> skellat, as we've discussed, we should do that review later after these changes are up
16:10 <skellat> Okay
16:10 <knome> what we're voting is "are the changes okay", not "is this the perfect SD"
16:11 <knome> i would imagine there is always room for improvement
16:11 <skellat> My vote won't change the outcome anyhow :-)
16:11 <micahg> mrh
16:11 <knome> just wanted to ask for arguments
16:11 <micahg> +0
16:11 <meetingology> +0 received from micahg
16:11 <knome> micahg, ?
16:11 <ochosi> what, so everyone's now +0-ing because their vote doesn't matter? :D
16:11 <micahg> I had the idea of voting on something I haven't read...I'm not a member of Congress...
16:11 <micahg> s/had/hate/
16:12 <knome> seriously,
16:12 <knome> you have had 23 days to review the changes
16:12 <skellat> ochosi: Nah, there are already enough positive votes that one negative by me won't block it
16:12 <pleia2> strategy documents are boring :)
16:12 <GridCube> ^
16:12 * ochosi goes to the closet, gets the big elephant whip and hands it to knome
16:13 <ochosi> skellat: i know, i was just kidding ;)
16:13 <micahg> I think I've worked at least 150 hours in the past 23 days...
16:13 <knome> i can allow for one more week if micah promises he will get to read the document by that time.
16:13 <pleia2> micahg: hugs
16:13 <knome> micahg, i understand, and i'm sorry, but ultimately we need to keep things rolling. the XPL-voting change has been pending for months
16:13 <ochosi> micahg: ouch, i hope at least your bankaccount reflects that! :>
16:14 <knome> #endvote
16:14 <meetingology> Voting ended on: Approve proposed Strategy Document (+1) or not (-1); members of -team can vote
16:14 <meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:1 Abstentions:3
16:14 <meetingology> Motion carried
16:14 <micahg> ochosi: unfortunately not...
16:14 <skellat> knome: We'll need to ask lderan to add an "abandonvote" function eventually to meetingology
16:14 <knome> #info motion not carried. one more week to review.
16:14 <micahg> knome: you have enuogh votes without me here
16:14 <lderan> skellat: shall add it :)
16:15 <knome> lderan, or just make #undo work on votes
16:15 <knome> not if we want -team quorum.
16:15 <micahg> give me a couple minutes and I can diff/read
16:15 <knome> okay
16:15 <knome> both versions are in the branch
16:15 <pleia2> thanks micahg
16:15 <knome> and i'll make sure i word the vote better
16:16 <micahg> knome: if you restate your vote, it's an effective #undo
16:17 <knome> micahg, we're talking about undoing a whole vote, not a single persons
16:17 <micahg> oh, haha
16:18 <ochosi> ok folks, i'm out of the door with one foot
16:18 <ochosi> knome: mind if i say something to the wallpapers and then run off?
16:19 <knome> #subtopic Something about wallpapers
16:19 <ochosi> :)
16:20 <ochosi> #info The wallpaper contest has been running for a short while, but we already have quite a few accepted submissions:
16:20 <ochosi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/CommunityWallpapers/Accepted
16:20 <ochosi> while i think it's enough to already call it a success, i'd like to encourage everyone in the team to point to the call for wallpapers again
16:20 <ochosi> and also encourage artists whose artwork you personally like to contribute
16:20 <ochosi> so, all the social-media mumbo-jumbo etc.
16:21 <knome> #action knome and pleia2 to give the wallpaper contest some publicity in social media again
16:21 * meetingology knome and pleia2 to give the wallpaper contest some publicity in social media again
16:21 <ochosi> righty, thanks
16:22 <ochosi> gotta take off, will read the rest when i'm back
16:22 <knome> ochosi, one sec
16:22 <knome> ochosi, would your vote be +1 for the SD?
16:22 <knome> just double-checking.
16:22 <ochosi> i already voted on that
16:22 <ochosi> so yeah, still +1
16:22 <ochosi> bbl
16:23 <pleia2> thanks ochosi
16:25 <pleia2> knome: next!
16:26 <knome> just a sec
16:26 <knome> #subtopic Strategy Document reviewing
16:26 <knome> #vote Approve the proposed changes to the Strategy Document (+1) or not (-1, please argument)
16:26 <meetingology> Please vote on: Approve the proposed changes to the Strategy Document (+1) or not (-1, please argument)
16:26 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
16:27 <knome> better wording, eh?
16:27 <pleia2> +1
16:27 <meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
16:27 <jjfrv8> +1
16:27 <meetingology> +1 received from jjfrv8
16:27 <GridCube> +1
16:27 <meetingology> +1 received from GridCube
16:27 <skellat> +1 since we can address the Python-based mainline stuff question at a later time
16:27 <meetingology> +1 since we can address the Python-based mainline stuff question at a later time received from skellat
16:27 <knome> +0, want to give the community a word on changes.
16:27 <meetingology> +0, want to give the community a word on changes. received from knome
16:27 <knome> there is one more +1 from ochosi
16:28 * GridCube is ok with the changes just doesnt understand why they are so important
16:28 <pleia2> GridCube: I think making it shorter is important so people actually read it
16:28 <GridCube> well, yes, that is true
16:28 <pleia2> GridCube: and re: XPL - currently votes come from a completely open team, very few of whom have insight into team workings, this is very odd
16:29 <knome> ultimately the SD should be a guide in day-to-day development of xubuntu
16:29 <micahg> +1
16:29 <meetingology> +1 received from micahg
16:29 <knome> unless we have a clear idea where we are going, or can't refer to those rules, we're running around like headless chicken and it's really hard for new contributors to jump in and grasp what we are steering our development by
16:30 <knome> #endvote
16:30 <meetingology> Voting ended on: Approve the proposed changes to the Strategy Document (+1) or not (-1, please argument)
16:30 <meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
16:30 <meetingology> Motion carried
16:30 <pleia2> hooray!!
16:30 <knome> 6 is quorum, 5-0-1 is approved
16:30 <GridCube> I see, i see, yes, those where the reasons why im OK with the changes, i just fail to see how the old SD is inflecting something on us, even if they have voice, they never choose to make it notice
16:30 <GridCube> :)
16:31 <knome> #topic Team updates
16:31 <GridCube> but anyway, :)
16:31 <knome> #info ochosi and knome have been working with the wallpaper contest
16:31 <knome> #info knome and Unit193 have been looking at docs translations
16:31 <skellat> #info whiskermenu is backported for P, Q, R, and S in ppa:skellat/tests for those who wish to try it
16:31 <GridCube> can docs be translated trhough launchpad?
16:31 <pleia2> #info pleia2 completed triaging website bugs this week
16:31 <knome> #info elfy has been working with organizing QA for the T cycle
16:32 <knome> GridCube, yes.
16:32 <micahg> #info whiskermenu is backported in the Xfce 4.10 PPA
16:32 <pleia2> #info pleia2 put out a call for VM-based tests to determine our actual minimum requirements
16:32 <micahg> #info Xfce 4.10 PPA backport was done by mr_pouit
16:33 <knome> #info you can translate the docs at: https://translations.launchpad.net/xubuntu-docs (note that several changes and additions are going to land later this cycle)
16:33 <skellat> #info Out of vUDS-1311, we may have the opportunity to ask local communities to "adopt a package" for work or testing during this cycle.  LoCo Council hasn't fully set this up yet, though.
16:34 <knome> skellat, will you follow up on that?
16:34 <skellat> knome: In what way?
16:34 <knome> telling us when that's set up.
16:34 <knome> :)
16:34 <skellat> knome: Yes
16:34 <knome> ta
16:35 <knome> more updates?
16:35 <GridCube> whats the status of mugshot?
16:35 <knome> bluesabre, ?
16:35 <knome> bluesabre, also tell us about menulibre if you're around
16:37 <jjfrv8> #info after discussion with ochosi, we dropped light-locker and added xfdesktop to the documentation blueprint
16:37 <GridCube> so no lightdm locking?
16:38 <knome> i would imagine the goals are still as planned
16:38 <skellat> GridCube: No need to write it up in documentation
16:38 <jjfrv8> no, it just doesn't need documentation
16:39 <knome> and we shouldn't use such technical names in the docs anyway
16:39 <knome> #topic Announcements
16:40 <knome> #subtopic There is a new Launchpad team ~xubuntu-qa
16:40 <knome> #info this team has currently only a social meaning, being the subteam from which people who contributed to QA can ultimately be approved to -team (per the SD)
16:41 <knome> #info if you think you should be a member in this (moderated) team, poke elfy.
16:41 <knome> #topic New and emerging items
16:41 <knome> #subtopic Meeting time reviewing
16:41 <knome> so,
16:42 <knome> several people told me in the last days this time isn't best for them
16:42 <knome> neither it is for me
16:42 <knome> i'm proposing 18UTC or 19UTC as the new time.
16:42 <knome> still on thursdays
16:42 <knome> is this horrible for some?
16:42 <jjfrv8> np for me
16:43 <GridCube> what utc is now?
16:43 <skellat> I *may* have an issue coming up that will prevent meeting attendance in general but I'm not allowed to talk about it in a logged channel
16:43 <knome> 1643
16:43 <GridCube> im traveling at that hours to my home
16:44 <knome> from 18UTC to 20UTC?
16:44 <GridCube> but im not esential on the developing process so go ahead
16:44 <knome> i mean, i'm proposing either 18-19 or 19-20 UTC
16:44 <GridCube> basically, i have 1.5hs of traveling every day
16:44 <knome> (even 20-21 UTC works)
16:44 <knome> (for me)
16:44 <micahg> I'm at work for all of that, so that's fine
16:45 <GridCube> knome, dont bend the hours for me tho, again, i contribute very little to the developing process
16:45 <knome> ok, let's try 19UTC next week.
16:45 <knome> #subtopic Schedule next week
16:45 <knome> bah...
16:45 <knome> #undo
16:45 <meetingology> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Subtopic object at 0x16ea8d0>
16:45 <knome> #subtopic Schedule next meeting
16:45 <knome> #info Next meeting: Thu 5 Nov, 19UTC
16:45 <knome> #endmeeting