15:02 <knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
15:02 <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Sep 12 15:02:31 2013 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
15:02 <meetingology> 
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15:03 <knome> so who's here for the meeting?
15:03 <lderan> me
15:03 <jjfrv8> o/
15:03 <micahg-work> o/
15:03 <knome> #topic Items carried on
15:03 <knome> #subtopic Open action items from previous meeting
15:03 <knome> #action     knome to prepare the website for the desktop of the week
15:03 * meetingology knome to prepare the website for the desktop of the week
15:03 <knome> #action     mr_pouit uploads the new artwork package later
15:03 * meetingology mr_pouit uploads the new artwork package later
15:04 <knome> #nick mr_pouit
15:04 <knome> #action skellat to prepare blog article discussing updating & upgrading for users and why it is okay to do so
15:04 * meetingology skellat to prepare blog article discussing updating & upgrading for users and why it is okay to do so
15:04 <knome> #nick skellat
15:04 <knome> #subtopic Strategy Document reviewing
15:04 <pleia2> o/
15:04 <knome> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2013-August/009312.html
15:05 <knome> jack sent me some grammar and clarity fixes
15:05 <micahg-work> hrm, sorry, I forgot to review that
15:05 <knome> but the content itself hasn't changed since last meeting
15:05 <pleia2> I still need to review as well
15:05 <knome> okay, let's postpone until next meeting.
15:05 <knome> #subtopic Ideas for using the project money
15:06 <micahg-work> more swag
15:06 <ochosi> #idea live-usb sticks with xubuntu on it (either as a give-away, or even for some very cheap price that's about what the usb stick would cost)
15:07 <knome> this is somewhat irrelevant, but there was an idea that unixstickers.com could "hold" our free material, and contributors who have talks in events could "order" those when needed with special code or sth
15:07 <ochosi> also sounds nice
15:07 <lderan> usb sticks would be cool
15:07 <lderan> aye
15:07 <micahg-work> ooh, ochosi's idea is good, no profit...
15:07 <knome> what micahg-work and ochosi are proposing sound like new marketing projects we should undertake, not exactly "using the money"
15:08 <micahg-work> well, the money is seed money for the marketing project :)
15:08 <micahg-work> but it's self-renewing
15:08 <knome> basically we would like to just set up the swag for our users to order them
15:08 <ochosi> knome: well the money would be needed for starting it up
15:08 <pleia2> #idea order some trial tshirts from international vendors
15:08 <ochosi> micahg-work: +1
15:08 <knome> not really, if vendors are doing that, like unixstickers.com
15:08 <knome> pleia2, +1 for that
15:08 <knome> the situation with t-shirts is that we still haven't found a good vendor
15:09 <knome> ubuntu studio used spreadshirt.net
15:09 <knome> or uses
15:09 <micahg-work> can we use the one that Studio is using?
15:09 <knome> pleia2, did you get to order something from them yet?
15:09 <ochosi> who would the tshirts be for?
15:09 <knome> micahg-work, practically we can use anything, we aren't just sure if price/quality is par with our expectations
15:09 <knome> ochosi, contributors
15:09 <knome> ochosi, but the main idea would be to check the quality
15:09 <ochosi> as in: ourselves? :)
15:10 <knome> pleia2 has been ordering shirts with her own money for now
15:10 <knome> yep, us
15:10 <knome> xubuntu-team
15:10 <micahg-work> knome, we could do t-shirts for -team members at cost to again keep the money from depleting...
15:10 <knome> another requirement in addition to quality is reasonable shipping prices
15:11 <knome> micahg-work, not sure i follow.
15:11 <micahg-work> or reuse it for multiple ventures
15:11 <knome> i'm not saying we should just dump it all to something
15:11 <micahg-work> AIUI, we're only prohibited from profiting, that doesn't mean that we can't use it as seed money over and over again
15:11 <ochosi> knome: remind me, how much is it again?
15:11 <knome> usb sticks are nice, and sure, we need to do a trial order even if we use a vendor
15:12 <knome> we have about 250 euros
15:12 <ochosi> hm, nice
15:12 <pleia2> I've only used zazzle so far
15:12 <pleia2> also, if we do find a marketing thing we like, there is still the flavors pool of money we can make requests against: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2013/06/20/ubuntu-donations-and-community-funding/
15:12 <smartboyhw> Speaking of T-shirts: You can only purchase it from USA, Canada, Europe or Japan if you use Spreadshirt
15:13 <smartboyhw> Which is why I have to via xequenc to get one
15:13 <smartboyhw> So, not a good idea for you guys.
15:13 <pleia2> smartboyhw: thanks, good to know
15:13 <smartboyhw> (to use Spreadshirt)
15:13 <knome> yes, that was one of the problems with spreadshirt
15:14 <knome> micahg-work, sure, but "seed money" for me sounds like "new marketing projects"
15:14 <micahg-work> and?
15:14 <knome> because ultimately, we don't want to run the merch business ourself
15:14 <knome> we just want to set up xubuntu-branded merch on other vendors
15:14 <GridCube> \o
15:15 <micahg-work> it becomes more of an endowment rather than a gift to spend
15:15 <knome> micahg-work, i don't think we should user 250 euros to usb sticks to sell them away
15:15 <knome> micahg-work, i think we should rather work with a vendor to get it right (tm) and allow people to order from the vendor directly
15:16 <micahg-work> knome, sure, that works too
15:16 <lderan> aye that makes sense to me
15:16 <knome> so if we want usb sticks... sure, but we don't need to use a lot of money to create them
15:16 <micahg-work> but doesn't that usually require some initial investment to "get it right"
15:16 <pleia2> yeah
15:16 <knome> unless the vendor is willing to work with us on it
15:16 <knome> but sure
15:16 <pleia2> order from a couple places to check on quality
15:17 <knome> but there's no way getting the initial investment back
15:17 <knome> if we spend it, we spend it
15:17 <knome> if something is not right and even if we used 15 euros for it, i don't want to sell that to our users
15:17 <knome> because it isn't right
15:17 <pleia2> yeah, we'll just keep them ourselves
15:17 <knome> that's why i'm +1'ing ordering t-shirts
15:18 <knome> we've run that project already, and we need some more of that initial investment
15:18 <ochosi> we can always give stuff that isn't right for free
15:18 * lderan will accept reject xubuntu usb sticks / t-shirts
15:18 <knome> ochosi, sure, but money-wise, that's the same as keeping it
15:18 <pleia2> we have to start somewhere
15:18 <ochosi> pleia2: +1
15:18 <knome> i would be +1 for the t-shirts
15:19 <knome> that's possible the best merch
15:19 <pleia2> let's start there then
15:19 <knome> people need clothes, they want to promote xubuntu
15:19 <GridCube> i wonder if there would ever be a new USD thats not virtual, if thats the case i would vote to keep the money to help whoever goes to one of those
15:19 <knome> -> they order a t-shirt
15:19 <knome> GridCube, 250 euros isn't too much to spend on that
15:19 <GridCube> no, sure, but it would help
15:19 <knome> GridCube, say it's in the states, and i needed to travel there
15:19 <ochosi> how much money would be needed for t-shirts that go from a vendor anyway?
15:19 <knome> GridCube, the flights would be something multiple times that money already
15:20 <pleia2> ochosi: custom shirt + shipping is around $30
15:20 <GridCube> sure, but it will help
15:20 <pleia2> (less once you get to bulk)
15:20 <ochosi> right, but how much would it cost for us to set it up?
15:20 <GridCube> in any case i dont think theres any usd thats in real person soon, or ever
15:20 <knome> GridCube, i think it's more sensible to use that money to various different things, if that helps us getting the t-shirts to a shippable state etc.
15:20 <GridCube> i understand
15:20 <ochosi> how many t-shirts would we order in order to test that the merch is "good" ?
15:21 <knome> ochosi, one, if the quality is good
15:21 <knome> ochosi, so far, there have been clear defects
15:21 <knome> so we won't order again from the same vendor because there is a risk one of our users get a defect shirt as well
15:22 <knome> so the answer is: we don't know
15:22 <ochosi> sounds like an investment into t-shirt market-research
15:22 <pleia2> so we should decide upon a style of shirt to order, then pick a few vendors to order some from
15:22 <knome> until somebody does it right.
15:22 <micahg-work> can we find the vendor Canonical uses for their shirts?
15:22 <pleia2> logo on black is really hard to do right, so I'm inclined to go with a white or blue shirt as the base
15:22 <knome> don't know how black/blue would be much different
15:22 <pleia2> light blue ;)
15:22 <knome> it's easy to get it right if you want to get it right
15:23 <knome> the problem with online vendors is that they are doing it cheap
15:23 <knome> that's why it can be wrong time to time
15:23 <lderan> aye that they can be
15:23 <ochosi> i agree with micahg-work, let's just use canonical's vendor
15:23 <pleia2> yeah, not much color balancing for a dark background, so the logo ends up looking even darker
15:24 <micahg-work> ochosi, Canonical probably orders several thousand, so it might not be possible, but at least worth looking into
15:24 <pleia2> ochosi: afaik you need to have a bulk agreement with them
15:25 <knome> this discussion leads me thinking we should just do a white t-shirt first
15:25 <knome> most vendors are supposed to get that right
15:25 <knome> so basically:
15:25 <knome> find a vendor with reasonable (shipping) prices and good coverage on shipping destinations
15:25 <knome> then order one t-shirt
15:25 <knome> and if it's good, make it official
15:25 <knome> then look into other colors.
15:25 <knome> maybe.
15:25 <pleia2> yep
15:26 <knome> that way we'll use about $30
15:26 <knome> investigting and googling is free of charge
15:26 <knome> (for now)
15:26 <GridCube> i've never bought any, but i've heard that topatoco products are rather nice
15:27 <knome> #action knome to see designing a white-bg t-shirt
15:27 * meetingology knome to see designing a white-bg t-shirt
15:27 <ochosi> sorry folks, i gotta run
15:27 <pleia2> and anyone with vendor ideas, please add to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Projects#T-shirts
15:27 <GridCube> :) bye
15:27 <lderan> by ochosi
15:27 <ochosi> i'll be back a bit after the meeting, i'll read the backlog and reply later
15:28 <lderan> bye*
15:28 <knome> anything else on the topic?
15:28 <knome> i'd encourage people to discuss this on the mailing list
15:28 <smartboyhw> You guys have a contract with canonical right?
15:29 <knome> feels a waste of time to meet every 2 weeks on a meeting and babble 30 mins about merch ;)
15:29 <knome> smartboyhw, what contract would you be referring to?
15:29 <smartboyhw> knome, I remembered that ttoine (our person who made the shop happen) spent 2 months working out a deal between Canonical and Spreadsheet or something
15:29 <smartboyhw> Best to ask him, but the legalese must be sorted out
15:30 <knome> we've asked canonical if it's okay to do this on the legal sense.
15:30 <pleia2> we're not making profit on this, it's all promotional material so within our trademark rights (we asked)
15:31 <knome> anyway,
15:31 <knome> #topic Team updates
15:31 <knome> anything? (please #info and #action, and do it quickly :P)
15:32 <micahg-work> #info Xubuntu restricted extras to not carry chromium codecs (Ubuntu just added it to theirs)
15:32 <knome> cool
15:32 <knome> (or that's how you perceive it, but i think it's cool)
15:32 <jjfrv8> #info review of saucy docs is about 80% complete.
15:32 <GridCube> #info the desktop of the week team has been in touch with some desktop screenshotters for the licenses that where missing, we are starting to get some responses but not so fast as we would wish
15:32 <micahg-work> #action micahg to review ochosi's gmb patch
15:32 * meetingology micahg to review ochosi's gmb patch
15:33 <knome> micahg-work, when's the last date you can upload new stuff before going away?
15:33 <knome> we need an upload for the artwork package when the new wallpaper is ready
15:34 <knome> (trivial, but needs to be done)
15:34 <knome> would wednesday 18 work for you?
15:34 <micahg-work> having it by this weekend would be nice, I think the beta freeze might be moving, so next weekend might be viable as well
15:34 <micahg-work> no, if it's quick I can do it night of the 17th
15:34 <knome> i'll see if i can get it done by weekend
15:35 <knome> #topic Announcements
15:35 <micahg-work> #info micahg unavailable Sep 19-21 and 26-28
15:35 <knome> #info Jack Fromm (jjrfv8) is the new Xubuntu Documentation lead. Congratulations!
15:35 <lderan> \o/
15:35 <pleia2> \o/
15:35 <micahg-work> congrats!
15:36 * jjfrv8 blushes
15:36 <smartboyhw> \o/
15:36 <GridCube> \o/
15:36 <GridCube> :D
15:38 <knome> #topic New and emerging items
15:39 <knome> #subtopic Schedule next meeting
15:39 <knome> do we want a meeting next week? (UIF, B2F, DocF)
15:40 <jjfrv8> i might have a problem making next thursday
15:40 <micahg-work> might be good to nail down issues that need to be fixed before beta 2
15:40 * micahg-work won't be around either though
15:40 <knome> micahg-work, yeah, though that's the b2 freeze day.
15:40 * pleia2 out of town too
15:40 <knome> would wednesday or tuesday be more suitable?
15:41 <jjfrv8> either for me
15:41 <knome> that'd leave us some actual time to fix the issues before the freeze
15:41 <knome> and not a meeting with lots of "we're too late"
15:41 <micahg-work> tuesday would be better as I won't be able to do much Wed
15:42 <knome> everybody else fineish with tue?
15:42 <pleia2> I'm gone all week, but you don't need me for b2 stuff :)
15:42 <knome> nope, only the release announcement stuff you'll prepare this week
15:42 * knome hides
15:42 <pleia2> lol
15:42 <knome> no, we're fin
15:42 <knome> e
15:42 <lderan> i'll be able to do tuesday :P
15:42 <knome> #info Next Xubuntu community meeting: Tuesday, September 17 at 15UTC
15:43 <knome> #endmeeting