15:04:26 <knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
15:04:26 <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jul 11 15:04:26 2012 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
15:04:26 <meetingology> 
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15:04:33 <knome> #chair ochosi astraljava pleia2
15:04:33 <meetingology> Current chairs: astraljava knome ochosi pleia2
15:04:43 <knome> #topic Items carried on
15:04:56 <knome> #subtopic Open action items from previous meeting
15:05:25 <knome> pleia2, is your "review target audience" done?
15:05:41 <knome> release notes are written, and bluesabre has been in contact with people via ML
15:05:55 <pleia2> #info started review of target audience for marketing
15:06:09 <knome> great! is there anything visible? ;)
15:06:13 <pleia2> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing
15:06:29 <pleia2> oh wait, it looks like my changes didn't save
15:06:37 <knome> awwh
15:06:56 <pleia2> (boo travel and unreliable wifi)
15:07:32 <knome> well, i suppose you have it in your head, so we are able to access that data later :P
15:07:32 <pleia2> #info changing the scope of that "Define the Xubuntu target audience" to be target /marketing/ audience, our actual target audience is defined in our strategy document
15:07:37 <pleia2> yeah
15:07:49 <pleia2> so I'll re-update in a bit :)
15:07:54 <knome> great
15:08:13 <knome> #subtopic Enable or disable compositor by default?
15:08:22 <knome> astraljava, did you have some insight on this?
15:08:30 <knome> there was a bug report or so...
15:09:50 <knome> since janne has vanished, anybody else?
15:10:36 <knome> allllllright.
15:10:38 <ochosi> not sure
15:10:41 <knome> :)
15:10:52 <ochosi> i think ideally we should disable it by default in the live-session
15:10:56 <ochosi> and enable it in the install
15:11:02 <ochosi> although that might seem inconsistent
15:11:08 <ochosi> but i think it does make some sense
15:11:09 <knome> i don't know if/how that's possible technically
15:11:33 <ochosi> should be possible, but i guess it would have to be discussed with our packagers
15:11:34 <pleia2> I don't love that idea, we tend to tell people to use the livecd to test if it works and they like it
15:11:42 <ochosi> true
15:11:45 <knome> yes, that raises the question "if we don't need the compositor on live, ..."
15:12:02 <knome> generally, i'm not a huge fan of the compositor
15:12:02 <ochosi> but otoh you don't use the live-cd for a longer period
15:12:39 <knome> that's not to say there is something wrong with it, i just personally prefer to disable the compositor, since i'm getting a bit more clean environment that way
15:13:10 <knome> sure, i can't use translucent panels, but imo those are not obligatory
15:13:46 <ochosi> yeah, we should ensure everything looks good without the compositor as well
15:13:54 <ochosi> but in general the shadows help do distinguish windows
15:13:55 <knome> is there *any* tests done with and without the compositor on, is there a notable speed difference?
15:14:51 <knome> and/or does enabling the compositor mean you should have at least some "power" in your GC?
15:15:34 <ochosi> xfwm4's compositor is really lean
15:15:47 <ochosi> but of course there are "issues" with proprietary drivers
15:15:55 <ochosi> in all fairness, all compositors have those issues
15:16:05 <knome> and generally, this leads us to the question of how far are we willing to go to pursue lightweightness
15:16:07 <ochosi> and in fact there is upstream work going on atm to reduce them (mostly video-tearing)
15:16:45 <pleia2> fwiw, I don't use the compositor either
15:16:46 <knome> in a way, i feel like that the compositor is a nice feature for those who want that extra bling, and because of that POV, i'm thinking "those who want it can enable it"
15:16:48 <ochosi> pleia2: btw, i was mainly referring to switching the compositor off in the "install xubuntu" option, which only shows ubiquity
15:17:01 <pleia2> ochosi: oh, gotcha
15:17:16 <ochosi> and we should strive to improve that anyhow, because there are no panels
15:17:23 <ochosi> but notifications about joining networks etc
15:18:12 <knome> how many of the people around actually use the translucent panels, for example?
15:18:32 <knome> i think that's the biggest thing, at least the most prominent change, if we decide to disable compositor by default
15:18:47 <ochosi> for me it's mostly the shadows behind windows
15:19:08 <ochosi> we're currently using translucency in a very conservative way, which i think is good
15:19:43 <knome> bigger window borders would fix "not distinguishing windows" without the shadows ;]
15:20:00 <ochosi> but really, this seems to be a bit of a different discussion (compositor on in general or not), i'd rather continue with the meeting, i don't have too much time right now
15:20:12 <knome> yes, i don't want to push the translucency-button any further
15:20:18 <ochosi> thanks
15:20:25 <knome> i mean :D
15:20:34 <knome> at least, let's not get any less conservative as we are now
15:20:35 <knome> :P
15:20:40 <knome> but we can continue the meeting too.
15:20:47 <knome> #topic Team updates
15:20:52 <knome> #subtopic Development
15:20:59 <knome> mr_pouit, micahg, astraljava
15:22:08 <knome> moving on
15:22:12 <knome> #subtopic QA
15:22:18 <knome> astraljava, GridCube, Unit193, ?
15:22:33 <knome> pleia2, ? :)
15:22:42 <pleia2> nothing from me
15:22:57 <pleia2> oh, we have a meeting coming up, QA-specific
15:23:12 <pleia2> this Sunday at 16:00 UTC
15:23:17 <knome> i assume somebody's going to announce it somewhere?
15:23:25 <pleia2> yeah, astraljava should
15:23:28 <knome> i mean, apart from this really quiet meeting
15:24:02 <knome> #action astraljava to announce the QA meeting on sunday, 16utc to mailing list and other 'forums'
15:24:02 * meetingology astraljava to announce the QA meeting on sunday, 16utc to mailing list and other 'forums'
15:24:23 <knome> #subtopic Marketing, Promotion, Art
15:24:52 <pleia2> I have many things :)
15:24:56 <knome> ochosi, do i really need to highlight you? ;)
15:25:15 <knome> pleia2, just go ahead, with #info & #action
15:25:41 <pleia2> #info I contacted the owner of the most-maintained Facebook page about Xubuntu, and he agreed to let us make it the official one
15:25:45 <pleia2> #link https://www.facebook.com/xubuntuusers
15:25:55 <knome> i assume you're an admin now too?
15:25:58 <pleia2> yep
15:26:01 <knome> good :)
15:26:09 <pleia2> so we should add it to the site now (I can do that)
15:26:18 <knome> great, thanks
15:26:39 <pleia2> I also wanted to say that it's been an exceptional experience approaching all these admins, google+, linkedin, facebook
15:26:54 <pleia2> they've all been happy to add me as admin and excited about having their sites made official
15:26:54 <knome> :)
15:27:14 <knome> now that we're this far, i suppose it's not a bad idea to cover more social networks
15:27:14 <pleia2> so I started writing a "thank you" blog post on my personal blog, should I keep this personal or maybe post it on xubuntu.org?
15:27:29 <knome> at least if those groups already exist and we can just drop in
15:27:29 <ochosi> i'm for the latter
15:27:35 <knome> xubuntu.org definitely :)
15:27:50 <pleia2> #action pleia2 to add Facebook page to website
15:27:50 * meetingology pleia2 to add Facebook page to website
15:27:54 <knome> it's a thanks from the whole (dev) community
15:28:02 <pleia2> #action pleia2 to draft "thank you" blog post to social media admins
15:28:02 * meetingology pleia2 to draft "thank you" blog post to social media admins
15:28:19 <knome> also, another way to tell people that they can join/follow/like...
15:28:24 <pleia2> yeah :)
15:28:34 <pleia2> also, I'm doing a Xubuntu presentation on Saturday
15:28:48 <knome> "now that we have done this really exhaustive taking-over..." ;)
15:28:50 <pleia2> micahg and ochosi already reviewed, I merged their changes in: http://people.ubuntu.com/~lyz/xubuntu/xubuntu-feltonlug.pdf
15:28:54 <pleia2> hehe
15:29:00 <pleia2> in case anyone wants to review today
15:29:17 <knome> what, can i ask questions too about xubuntu?
15:29:29 <knome> though i'm not sure if even *200* slides would go in that case..
15:29:33 <pleia2> no, you know everything
15:29:48 <pleia2> but if there is anything I am obviously missing, comments welcome :)
15:29:59 <knome> ok, i'll try to get around to reading it
15:30:06 <knome> by when do you need feedbak?
15:30:07 <knome> +c
15:30:22 <pleia2> today would be preferred, I am starting to practice actually giving it
15:30:27 <knome> ok
15:30:31 <pleia2> thank you :)
15:30:34 <pleia2> and finally...
15:30:45 <knome> at least for the slide 16, mention (gtk3) updates for albatross and bluebird too :)
15:31:10 <knome> aaand you lack ochosi from the reviwers ;)
15:31:14 <pleia2> oh hm, I changed that to say "Xubuntu's default themes"
15:31:18 <knome> ok
15:31:22 <knome> :)
15:31:27 <pleia2> that's odd, it uploaded but didn't seem to update the download
15:31:27 <ochosi> yup, i already mentioned that in my review ;)
15:31:31 * pleia2 retries
15:31:52 <pleia2> ok, try download again
15:32:03 <pleia2> maybe sftp didn't auto-override the old file or something
15:32:10 <knome> pleia2, in slide 9, maybe replace "background" with "wallpaper"
15:32:41 <pleia2> #info I ordered a black t-shirt from zazzle.com with the design from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Products#T-shirts (lack the ubuntu font though)
15:32:45 <knome> pleia2, (and optionally add ", general appearance..."
15:32:47 <knome> )
15:32:54 <knome> awwh!
15:32:55 <knome> pics?
15:32:58 <pleia2> #info I'll report back on how it goes, they were having a sale so I figured I'd give it a try :)
15:33:04 <knome> ah
15:33:10 <knome> so it hasn't arrived yet ;)
15:33:13 <pleia2> yeah
15:33:35 * ochosi goes to the loo for a sec
15:33:43 <knome> pleia2, slide 11, first bullet "Join (#)xubuntu-devel mailing list and IRC channel"
15:34:51 <pleia2> thanks
15:34:52 <ochosi> re
15:34:57 <knome> pleia2, and in pg 14 too, last bullet; background->wallpaper, and maybe sth like "for example"
15:35:20 <ochosi> #info Albatross has been fully ported to Gtk3, it also has a metacity theme now and supports Unity
15:35:26 <knome> \o/
15:35:36 <ochosi> #action Shimmer-Team to write a blog-post about the Albatross progress
15:35:36 * meetingology Shimmer-Team to write a blog-post about the Albatross progress
15:35:39 <pleia2> ok, went with "Attend meetings to voice your opinion on proposed changes to artwork, wallpaper and other visual changes"
15:35:40 <knome> #info Albatross xfwm-refresh is very much WIP...
15:35:59 <pleia2> maybe visual elements
15:36:12 <ochosi> #info ochosi is trying with the help of a new contributor to port Greybird to pure CSS (no more unico engine in Gtk3 hopefully)
15:36:42 <knome> pleia2, pg17, 3. bull; "panel applets..."
15:37:00 <ochosi> #info Some small bugs have been squashed in Bluebird and Greybird in Gtk3 for Quantal already, but we need more testing
15:37:12 <ochosi> #info We also need more testing for missing icons
15:37:20 <ochosi> that's about it from the artwork-side
15:37:47 <knome> ochosi, can you follow-up on the icons with astraljava, so we could get a special mention for the rest of our 12.10 milestones? :)
15:38:21 <ochosi> what do you mean exactly?
15:39:34 <knome> pleia2, pg19, last bullet, please add a slash add the end of the line ;)
15:39:49 <pleia2> hehe
15:39:52 <knome> ochosi, we can tell our testers to look specifically at the icons
15:40:05 <ochosi> i think the long-test already contains something like that
15:40:07 <ochosi> i added it myself
15:40:08 <knome> ok
15:40:12 <knome> heh, fine...
15:40:27 <ochosi> check point 11 here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Long
15:40:58 <knome> since we're *kind of* changing our icon theme, maybe that could be a part of the short test for the 12.10 cycle
15:41:37 <knome> anyway, i suppose that was it for the artwork
15:41:48 <knome> #topic New and emerging items
15:41:59 <knome> #subtopic BP: Add more launchers to Settings Manager
15:42:06 <knome> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-q-xubuntu-settings-manager-launchers
15:42:26 <knome> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Quantal/SettingsManagerApps
15:42:31 <knome> Unit193, you around?
15:43:34 <knome> ok, let's carry on
15:43:40 <knome> #subtopic Encryption required for testing on milestones?
15:44:09 <knome> who added this? astraljava? :)
15:44:13 <knome> or me...? :P
15:45:19 <ochosi> look at the wiki-log?
15:45:24 <knome> that's too long
15:45:47 <knome> i suppose this means if we should have the encryption -testcase on milestones
15:45:57 <knome> or, any other ideas what this could mean?
15:46:04 <knome> (yes, i know i might've added this myself... ;))
15:46:28 <knome> oh, no, that's astraljava
15:46:45 <knome> since he doesn't seem to be around, let's carry on :)
15:46:50 <knome> #subtopic Testcases feedback
15:46:57 <knome> astraljava's too, carry on...
15:47:17 <knome> #subtopic Do we need screensaver by default or would a screenlock suffice?
15:47:28 <pleia2> no screensaver
15:47:33 <knome> +1
15:47:41 <ochosi> +1
15:47:45 <bluesabre> +1
15:47:46 <knome> the default savers aren't very good looking anyway
15:47:57 <knome> #agree Drop screensavers by default
15:48:01 <pleia2> \o/
15:48:05 <ochosi> great
15:48:08 <bluesabre> no screensaver, but monitor power management enabled?
15:48:16 <knome> bluesabre, sure.
15:48:31 <knome> bluesabre, screensaver is just the visual thingy.
15:48:40 <pleia2> yeah, I think we just set it to blank instead
15:48:44 <bluesabre> Yeah, but I think the default settings don't power off the monitor
15:49:06 <ochosi> we need a screenlocker though
15:49:17 <ochosi> it actually is a planned feature of lightdm
15:49:24 <ochosi> no clue what the progress is on that though
15:49:30 <knome> #nick xubuntu-team
15:49:44 <knome> #action xubuntu-team to investigate adding a screenlocker
15:49:44 * meetingology xubuntu-team to investigate adding a screenlocker
15:50:06 <knome> #action xubuntu-team to investigate default settings for monitor power management
15:50:06 * meetingology xubuntu-team to investigate default settings for monitor power management
15:50:19 <knome> #subtopic Schedule next meeting
15:50:36 <knome> is there a milestone that requires us to have a meeting next week?
15:50:55 <knome> apparently not
15:51:16 <knome> no, wait
15:52:54 <knome> we do
15:53:16 <pleia2> yeah, next milestone in 2 weeks + 1 day
15:53:31 <knome> #action knome to announce the next meeting, which will be held on 18th of July at #xubuntu-devel
15:53:31 * meetingology knome to announce the next meeting, which will be held on 18th of July at #xubuntu-devel
15:53:43 <knome> that date even made sense!
15:53:46 <knome> #endmeeting