15:00:21 <knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting
15:00:21 <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jun 13 15:00:21 2012 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
15:00:21 <meetingology> 
15:00:21 <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
15:00:41 <knome> #topic Items carried on
15:01:03 <knome> #subtopic Open action items from previous meeting
15:01:26 <knome> #action pleia2 and knome to work on marketing products
15:01:26 * meetingology pleia2 and knome to work on marketing products
15:01:40 <knome> #action pleai2 to raise publicity on triaging, testing and docs
15:01:40 * meetingology pleai2 to raise publicity on triaging, testing and docs
15:01:49 <knome> -typo :)
15:02:15 <knome> that was it for the action items, there's nothing special going on there, still need to get working!
15:02:22 <knome> #topic Team updates
15:02:27 <knome> #subtopic Development
15:02:55 <knome> #info Some work done to get Xfce 4.10 in Quantal
15:03:05 <knome> #subtopic Quality Assurance
15:03:10 <knome> astraljava, your stage
15:03:37 <knome> (please use #info)
15:04:21 <astraljava> #info Some work was done recently to enhance the testing docs, I will dig up the link to those in a minute. The testcases were sanitized, and should now be easier to follow was non-regulars as well.
15:05:08 <astraljava> #info Since Xubuntu did not do an Alpha-1, we haven't used the new tracker much, yet. We should pick up on that now, though.
15:05:47 <GridCube> :) i zsynked the images yesterday
15:06:04 <knome> #info https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-testers is now an *open* team, no need to add your information on the wiki anymore.
15:06:04 <astraljava> #info There's an upcoming QA meeting this Sunday, I will post info about it on the mailing lists after this meeting.
15:06:23 <knome> #action astraljava to send information on the Xubuntu QA meeting
15:06:23 * meetingology astraljava to send information on the Xubuntu QA meeting
15:06:37 <astraljava> bah... you beat me to it.
15:06:41 <xacobe> hi
15:06:43 <astraljava> ..
15:06:44 <knome> :)=
15:06:47 <knome> xacobe, hello
15:06:54 <knome> i suppose that's it
15:07:12 <knome> #info The testers should try to make the QA meeting on Sunday to organize
15:07:21 <knome> #subtopic Marketing, Promotion and Artwork
15:07:50 <knome> #info Some improvements done for Greybird, more information later
15:08:18 <knome> #action ochosi to send more information on Greybird and a request for feedback to ML
15:08:18 * meetingology ochosi to send more information on Greybird and a request for feedback to ML
15:08:24 <GridCube> can i paste what ochosi said?
15:08:42 <knome> GridCube, the thing about compositor is on the agenda, not WIP
15:08:48 <knome> GridCube, (it's a new item)
15:09:10 <knome> GridCube, but if it's something that's WIP, go ahead :)
15:09:22 <knome> (i mean, if it's something else)
15:09:44 <GridCube> :) no, it was that
15:09:50 <knome> okay, let's go forward
15:09:55 <knome> #subtopic General updates
15:10:15 <knome> #info knome has been working on the Strategy Document review, more info soon
15:10:36 <knome> #action knome to send information about the revised Strategy Document to ML soon
15:10:36 * meetingology knome to send information about the revised Strategy Document to ML soon
15:10:41 <knome> is there anything else?
15:10:58 <knome> #info All blueprints are now in place, start your engines!
15:11:10 <GridCube> i have a comment but goes more to the meetings part
15:11:29 <knome> ok, let's discuss that there then :)
15:11:36 <knome> #topic Announcements
15:11:50 <knome> #subtopic Changes in chairing the meetings
15:11:53 <knome> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2012-June/008239.html
15:12:12 <knome> #info The change described in the mail will take place now
15:12:50 <GridCube> that was what i wanted to comment :) i like that
15:13:05 <GridCube> we should enforce it to happen, meetings are extremely important to me
15:13:06 <knome> #info Basically, any team lead can chair a meeting; if the project lead or any team lead is not available, an informal meeting should take place, and the main points sent to the ML
15:13:26 <knome> #subtopic Changes to the Testing lead position
15:13:34 <knome> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2012-June/008242.html
15:14:05 <knome> #info Since there has been no objections against the mail, the change takes place now
15:14:23 <knome> #info Janne Jokitali (astraljava) is the new Xubuntu QA lead
15:14:38 <knome> ...aaaand for the records, it's Jokitalo (will fix that in the minutes)
15:14:45 <knome> astraljava, congrats!
15:14:46 <astraljava> *smirk*
15:14:49 <astraljava> Danke.
15:15:18 <knome> is there any announcements any team leads (including new ones) would like to shout out?
15:15:27 <knome> #subtopic Other announcements
15:15:53 <astraljava> From QA: a small addition.
15:16:09 <knome> (again, use #info :))
15:16:15 <astraljava> #info The updated (short) testcase sits now at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Short
15:16:22 <astraljava> No idea what happened to the longer one.
15:16:40 <astraljava> ..
15:16:45 <knome> that wasn't updated; the old one is still at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/TestingInfo/Long
15:17:06 <astraljava> Oh okay, that's the reason. (we can have a word on why it wasn't updated later...)
15:17:08 <astraljava> *smirk*
15:17:13 <knome> hehe. :)
15:17:28 <knome> #topic New and emerging items
15:17:36 <knome> #subtopic Feedback on Precise development cycle
15:17:40 <knome> okay, so
15:18:07 <knome> if there is any feedback on the dev cycle, how to do things better, proposals, what worked better than before or anything, the floor is yours
15:18:31 <GridCube> i think we need more communication
15:18:42 <knome> please note that we are not evaluating the *product* but the *process*
15:18:48 <GridCube> oh
15:18:54 <GridCube> well
15:18:54 <knome> no, you are right :)
15:19:02 <knome> that's exactly about the process
15:19:04 <GridCube> ah
15:19:08 <knome> and i agree
15:19:19 <knome> we started well with the meetings, but somehow let that slip
15:19:21 <astraljava> +1
15:19:27 <GridCube> yes, that what i mean, i was extremely surprised by the logo change
15:19:33 <knome> this is one of the reasons why i made the change to chairing
15:19:35 <GridCube> i think that was handled pretty bad
15:19:52 <GridCube> i like the new logo now, but it was an unpleasant surprise
15:20:03 <knome> GridCube, while i agree that we could've communicated better on it, but it was announced
15:20:30 <GridCube> yes i know, but meeting where so far apart and sporadic that missing them was extremely easy
15:20:32 <knome> i think the biggest reason why the communication was bad was that it happened so late in the cycle; we actually had a real rush to even get it to the release
15:20:44 <knome> GridCube, exactly; again, that's why the new chairing stuff :)
15:20:49 <GridCube> :)
15:20:53 <knome> GridCube, (and note about the informal meetings)
15:20:59 <GridCube> yes i see that
15:21:07 <knome> generally, any communication between contributors and community is encouraged
15:21:16 <GridCube> and i see we have a twitter feed and g+
15:21:32 <GridCube> so i hope we use it
15:21:34 <knome> yes, though that's for a bit different communication, but still
15:21:54 <knome> yes, the twitter and G+ accounts will be used to announce meetings and new articles on the blog
15:21:55 <GridCube> no, it the same, sending the minutes to twitter and g+
15:22:08 <GridCube> its part of the communication
15:22:18 <knome> (and we now have an official linkedin xubuntu users group)
15:22:33 <astraljava> Whee!
15:22:42 <GridCube> :) yes, i hope the password didnt got stolen in the bunch :P
15:23:03 <knome> GridCube, yes, it's part of it, but it's not developer-developer communication; IRC, wiki and the mailing lists are designed for those :)
15:23:15 <hobgoblin> I hope all of those twitter etc are extra to existing methods of communication - or some od us will miss things
15:23:21 <GridCube> :) i know
15:23:27 <knome> hobgoblin, yes, that's how it is
15:23:37 <hobgoblin> ok  thanks :)
15:23:55 <knome> hobgoblin, as long as you follow the -devel ML, this IRC channel (and maybe the website), you're fine
15:24:05 <knome> and wiki too, if you're interested in a specific area
15:24:08 <hobgoblin> I do
15:24:45 <GridCube> :)
15:25:00 <knome> #agreed We need better communication this cycle; actions already taken are changes in the meetings and social media accounts
15:25:12 <knome> anything else on the subject?
15:25:32 <GridCube> not from me
15:25:40 <knome> somebody else?
15:25:47 <knome> bluesabre_?
15:26:11 <bluesabre_> I'm good.  :)
15:26:11 <knome> bluesabre_, is there something we can do better to make new contributors feel more included?
15:26:24 <bluesabre_> I felt pretty included the whole time
15:26:35 <knome> that's good feedback - thanks :)
15:26:45 <bluesabre_> Thanks!
15:26:55 <knome> let's get rolling again then!
15:27:08 <knome> #subtopic Blueprints; feedback, questions and answers
15:27:15 <GridCube> o/
15:27:22 <knome> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/
15:27:24 <knome> GridCube, go ahead
15:27:38 <GridCube> #info I've been working on the comparison of music players against gmb, can not continue until i have some input about which are the ones that could be considered to compare, because if media libary integration is not obligatory we already have parole
15:27:56 <GridCube> :)
15:28:39 <GridCube> ..
15:28:48 <knome> i'd suggest scheduling some time in the near future (maybe next week) with me, you and maybe ochosi (and of course, others interested) to go through what you have done already, and what would be the next steps
15:29:27 <knome> does that sound like a good plan?
15:29:40 <bluesabre_> (I'm a fan of keeping something with a library and sound menu support) :)
15:30:09 <knome> mmh, one of the things we need to discuss is what the "requirements" for features are for the default media player
15:30:25 <knome> that needs to be done before we can rule out players from the comparison
15:30:52 <GridCube> yes
15:30:57 <knome> i agree that we have way too many players up right now; it would be way too much work to compare all those
15:31:09 <GridCube> i agree, it sounds like an idea knome
15:31:34 <knome> my stance on it is that we should at least drop anything with Qt or anything that's CLI off
15:31:48 <knome> and, everything that is not on the repositories too
15:31:57 <knome> (and everything that takes >200MB) :D
15:31:59 <GridCube> mmhm yes, i added them just because they qhere recomended to me to test
15:32:06 <knome> yup, that's good
15:32:19 <GridCube> in this channels
15:32:41 <knome> #action knome to follow up about the default media player -blueprint on the ML, scheduling some time to go through the spec next week
15:32:41 * meetingology knome to follow up about the default media player -blueprint on the ML, scheduling some time to go through the spec next week
15:33:04 <knome> GridCube, something around these times is good for you? ~15UTC ?
15:34:59 <knome> anything else on the blueprints?
15:35:42 <knome> #info Generally, all blueprints have no or slow progress, but things are expected to change relatively soon as infrastructure on a few things has been set up
15:36:55 <GridCube> knome, yes, that a good time
15:37:00 <knome> GridCube, ok, good
15:37:16 <knome> bluesabre_, you have anything about the blueprints?
15:37:30 <knome> astraljava, you?
15:37:51 <bluesabre_> Not really.  Slow going on the keyboard shortcuts overlay and catfish (which is nearly done)
15:38:33 <GridCube> o/
15:38:33 <knome> bluesabre_, great to hear :) you know it already, but please remember to update the work item statuses while you progress :)
15:38:36 <knome> GridCube, yep?
15:38:43 <GridCube> about the arandr thing
15:38:46 <bluesabre_> sure thing :)
15:38:48 <astraljava> Not really, pretty much the same as others; slow progress, unfortunately. Trying to pick up soon.
15:38:57 <knome> GridCube, what's up with that?
15:38:58 <GridCube> theres just arandr, grandr is not been made anymore
15:39:15 <GridCube> i mean theres only one current interface for xrandr
15:39:32 <GridCube> !info grandr
15:39:33 <ubottu> Package grandr does not exist in precise
15:39:35 <knome> GridCube, mm-hmm; in that ase, the question is if we want to include that or not
15:39:38 <knome> +c
15:39:42 <GridCube> yep
15:39:51 <knome> i'm not sure what the status on xfce monitor management dialog is
15:40:01 <knome> if that looks good, then it's an option too
15:40:11 <GridCube> in 4.10 its the same that in 4.8
15:40:15 <knome> if not, then there shouldn't be much stopping us from shipping arandr
15:40:19 <GridCube> so its not good
15:40:37 <knome> well, we can cherry-pick changes if the dialog gets much love in the next weeks
15:40:47 <GridCube> mmhm
15:40:50 <GridCube> i agree
15:40:50 * micahg sees there's a meeting of some sort going on
15:41:06 <knome> micahg, yes, the community meeting announced on the ML;)
15:41:17 <GridCube> micahg, a community meeting not the less
15:41:18 <GridCube> :D
15:41:23 <knome> #info grandr is no more, keep an eye on the xfce monitor management dialog
15:42:21 <knome> anything else on the blueprints?
15:42:41 <GridCube> not from my pocket :P
15:43:10 <knome> ok, let's continue then (let's try to fit this in 1h)
15:43:22 <knome> #subtopic Enable or disable compositor by default?
15:43:34 <knome> #info ochosi told he's +1 for enabling by default
15:43:50 <bluesabre_> I'm all for keeping it by default
15:43:59 <GridCube> i don't really care
15:44:01 <astraljava> Keeping?
15:44:12 <knome> the reason why i brought this up is that it takes some resources and even causes some problems when enabled
15:44:13 <bluesabre_> *enabling
15:44:21 <knome> astraljava, it's enabled by default now.
15:44:28 <astraljava> Ok.
15:44:54 <bluesabre_> What problems exist with it enabled (besides ubiquity)?
15:44:56 <GridCube> i think that it might be disabled by default in the livecd and enabled in the final install
15:45:17 <knome> bluesabre_, for some people it has brought some rendering issues
15:45:25 <knome> (really rare, but happens)
15:45:30 <bluesabre_> ah
15:45:40 <knome> i think the main argument for keeping it enabled is our semi-transparent launcher panel
15:45:50 <knome> we'd have to change that if we disabled compositor
15:46:08 <knome> GridCube, yes, that's something we should look at, because it brings some problems to ubiquity
15:46:33 <knome> GridCube, or, just fix how ubiquity runs xfce, because that's what is actually causing the problems
15:47:14 <knome> maybe we can make some performance tests on how it affects low-end machines at installation time
15:47:28 <GridCube> knome, the pseudo dock can be rezised and centered and locked so it wont be on all over the bottom of the monitor
15:48:06 <knome> GridCube, yes, but that's not the issue; the issue is that if we disable the compositor, we can't have panel transparency
15:48:14 <GridCube> and that doesnt need transparencies
15:48:22 <knome> possibly
15:49:12 <knome> #info drop compositor on ubiquity? performance issues with low-end machines at installation time if compositor enabled?
15:49:32 <knome> i think we should investigate this more when we start testing
15:49:41 <knome> right now, there is not much to do
15:49:45 <astraljava> I'll mark it as a TODO for me.
15:49:55 <knome> astraljava, ok, thanks:)
15:50:07 <knome> #action astraljava to look at enabling/disabling compositor
15:50:07 * meetingology astraljava to look at enabling/disabling compositor
15:50:23 <knome> #subtopic Meeting schedule; how often should we have meetings?
15:50:30 <knome> weekly, be-weekly?
15:50:59 <knome> we should just run a quick poll to get some idea
15:51:11 <astraljava> I think bi-weekly is enough.
15:51:23 <knome> #vote Meetings; +1 for bi-weekly, -1 for weekly
15:51:23 <meetingology> Please vote on: Meetings; +1 for bi-weekly, -1 for weekly
15:51:23 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
15:51:25 <knome> +1
15:51:25 <meetingology> +1 received from knome
15:51:34 <astraljava> +1
15:51:34 <meetingology> +1 received from astraljava
15:51:37 <bluesabre_> +1
15:51:37 <meetingology> +1 received from bluesabre_
15:51:43 <knome> GridCube, micahg?
15:51:44 <GridCube> -1
15:51:44 <meetingology> -1 received from GridCube
15:51:52 <GridCube> sorry i have a huge lag
15:51:58 <knome> no problem :)
15:52:07 <knome> i'll try to wait for some time before proceeding
15:52:15 <knome> i'm sure not all can be as focused as i am...
15:52:29 <knome> i mean, need to chair == need to be focused
15:52:36 <knome> hobgoblin, ?
15:52:49 <hobgoblin> hello
15:52:59 <hobgoblin> oic
15:53:04 <hobgoblin> +1
15:53:04 <meetingology> +1 received from hobgoblin
15:53:10 <GridCube> vote hobgoblin :D
15:53:17 <micahg> +0, biweekly except around a release milestone IMHO
15:53:17 <meetingology> +0, biweekly except around a release milestone IMHO received from micahg
15:53:41 <knome> micahg, mm-hmm, might be ideal that way :)
15:53:43 <knome> #endvote
15:53:43 <meetingology> Voting ended on: Meetings; +1 for bi-weekly, -1 for weekly
15:53:43 <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:1 Abstentions:1
15:53:43 <meetingology> Motion carried
15:54:08 <knome> let's set the next meeting to two weeks from now
15:54:20 <knome> if there is need, people can have an informal meeting next week :)
15:54:33 <GridCube> :D
15:54:34 <micahg> I'd actually suggest a meeting next week if you want an alpah2
15:54:40 <knome> micahg, ah.
15:54:44 <micahg> *alpha2 even
15:54:45 <knome> in that case...
15:54:50 <knome> let's make it next week ;)
15:55:00 <astraljava> Decisions are made to be broken anyway.
15:55:04 <knome> #info Next Xubuntu community meeting at 21st of June, at 15UTC
15:55:16 <micahg> especially with the meetings on wed, the pre freeze meeting can be planning and the pre release meeting can be make sure everything is good
15:55:18 * GridCube wonders if that wouldnt actually be alpha1... you know... because we hadnt that one...
15:55:40 <micahg> GridCube: because the release schedule says so :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseSchedule
15:55:41 <knome> GridCube, no, that's still a2 in the ubuntu calendar :)
15:55:49 <GridCube> :P
15:55:50 <knome> #endmeeting