16:10 <popey> #startmeeting Terminal meeting
16:10 <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jun 17 16:10:21 2015 UTC.  The chair is popey. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
16:10 <meetingology> 
16:10 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
16:10 <popey> Yeah, I pushed a new version to the store after the contributions.
16:10 <popey> I know dp m has been playing with terminal on the desktop
16:10 <popey> resulting in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-terminal-app/+bug/1465975
16:11 <popey> and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-terminal-app/+bug/1465978
16:12 <popey> For the OSK icon, we need to decide what to do on a desktop / TV form factor where there's no touch and near-zero chance you'll enable the OSK
16:12 <popey> I'd encourage you both to comment on that bug. I discussed it with dp m earlier today and wanted to get your input
16:12 <popey> For the window size one, I think we should default to 80x25 :)
16:12 <JMulholland> :D
16:13 <popey> (cols/rows not pixels) :)
16:13 <swordfish> Ok. One should be an easy fix.
16:13 <JMulholland> on the first bug, we it’s not just no touch - we need to cater for touch enabled, but with a physical KB connected (in which case, it’s a little slicker if we dont show the KB button either)
16:14 <swordfish> I agree with you we should offer sizes in text rows/cols to replicate the current terminals.
16:14 <JMulholland> *well it’s not just
16:15 <swordfish> I agree with J. During the terminal planning we discussed this configuration, and the idea we came out with was to allow both possibilities.
16:15 <swordfish> You have a physical keyboard and you also have the on-screen keyboard button.
16:16 <swordfish> That's what two hard-core nerds came out with :D. What do you think?
16:16 <popey> dpm suggested we have a setting to hide the osk button
16:16 <popey> permanently
16:16 <popey> e.g. for laptop / desktop / tv with _no_ touch screen ever
16:16 <popey> why would you want it on screen?
16:16 <JMulholland> makes perfect sense popey
16:16 <popey> I suggested just fading it out if you never touch it
16:16 <popey> but I can see it would be annoying on screen if you dont use it
16:16 <swordfish> If you have no touch the button is gone. It serves to purpose.
16:17 <popey> right
16:17 <popey> but the extension to that is even if you _do_ have touch but don't want to see it, you may want to manually hide it
16:17 <popey> e.g. modern new laptop which happens to have a touch screen, but you have it plugged into an external display/keyboard
16:17 <swordfish> Yep. I would personally hide it forever on a modern laptop.
16:17 <popey> it _has_ touch, but you will never use it because the laptop is lid-closed on/under your desk
16:18 <popey> ok
16:18 <swordfish> So the switch is probably a must. What about the default? Should it be on or off?
16:19 <popey> on by default
16:19 <popey> IMO
16:19 <swordfish> JMulholland, do you have any idea on the subject?
16:19 <dpm> this is the bug for rerefence https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-terminal-app/+bug/1465975 - popey and I disagreed, so hoping one of you guys can help with deciding :)
16:20 <popey> dpm: I think we've come to agreement now, it needs a switch
16:20 <JMulholland> its a tricky one, as its highly unlikely a user would ever want to use an OSK on a touch enabled laptop that has a hardware KB...
16:21 <popey> indeed
16:21 <JMulholland> hmm, i suppose there are convertible touch enabled laptops though (i.e. the ones you can swivel the monitor on yo use like a tablet)
16:21 <JMulholland> hmm
16:21 <popey> those pesky blurry lines
16:21 <JMulholland> convergence is an edge-case minefield :P
16:22 <swordfish> eheheh... :D
16:22 <popey> So I think the general conclusion is a) we need to make it hide-able, b) we need a switch to make it manually hideable. c) later, we figure out some "do we have touch heuristics" to autohide?
16:22 <JMulholland> I think that seems the most logical course popey
16:24 <swordfish> I really like (and I mean really really) the idea of touch heuristics. Anyway I agree. In the meantime that the best decision.
16:25 <popey> Ok, great.
16:26 <popey> so, the next one is window size.
16:26 <davmor2> popey: I thought there was talk of making the button translucent if there was a keyboard present so it was still clickable if needed?
16:26 <popey> there was talk
16:26 <popey> we decided against that :)
16:26 <davmor2> :(
16:26 <JMulholland> oh, how come?
16:27 <popey> its still there, even translucent
16:27 <popey> well, this was dpm's strong opinion, that it should just flat out not be there when there is no touch
16:27 <popey> AIUI
16:28 <JMulholland> aha
16:29 <davmor2> popey: my only concern is I know how long bt can take to disconnect, so if you walk away from a keyboard with a device for example then it will not give you keyboard for upto a minute iirc
16:29 <popey> so we fix bluetooth
16:29 <popey> we shouldn't work around bluetooth being crap in the apps
16:29 <davmor2> if there is a manual override switch in settings though I guess that is fine
16:30 <popey> We can of course test this first :)
16:31 <swordfish> @davmor2, the manual switch has to be there. But I have to say I'm not against playing with opacity. There is also the possibility of blurring if opacity isn't enough.
16:31 <meetingology> swordfish: Error: "davmor2," is not a valid command.
16:31 <popey> ok
16:31 <popey> agreed swordfish
16:31 <popey> So how about the other one dpm filed about window size?
16:31 <popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-terminal-app/+bug/1465978
16:31 <popey> can we calculate what size (for example) 80x25 would be?
16:32 <swordfish> Yes we can. We have the size of characters and window.
16:33 <popey> Great.
16:33 <popey> I like easy answers like that.
16:33 <swordfish> We can basically do everything, but we need to define a consistent behaviour.
16:33 <swordfish> (you don't like this I guess :) )
16:34 <popey> hah
16:34 <popey> well, in full screen mode, we just fill the screen with the window
16:34 <popey> as on the phone
16:34 <swordfish> Agreed, on phone and tablets. Thats probably fine.
16:35 <popey> but in 'windowed' mode, when started from scratch we should start at either 80x25 if it fits, or if it's a low-res display (i.e. 80x25 doesn't fit) then it should be full screen also
16:35 <popey> IMO
16:35 <nik90> \
16:35 <popey> e.g. low res tablet in windowed mode with a keyboard.
16:35 <swordfish> Very well that's what I was typing :D ...
16:35 <popey> hah :)
16:35 <popey> Consensus ftw :)
16:35 <swordfish> :D
16:36 <swordfish> Ok. Next point. Bottom keyboard bar... Should we stick to what we decided during the terminal planning?
16:37 <popey> when on desktop?
16:37 <popey> (without touch)
16:37 <swordfish> Yep. The policy was to always show it. Because people might use pointing devices to access it.
16:38 <popey> right, but you're thinking maybe we should allow the user to switch it off maybe?
16:38 <popey> :)
16:38 <swordfish> That's already possible :) ...
16:39 <popey> uh
16:40 <popey> hah!
16:40 <popey> How did I miss that setting!
16:41 <popey> Ok, what was your question swordfish ?
16:41 <swordfish> If the planned/current behaviour is good... Always shown with a disable switch...
16:42 <popey> yes, i like this
16:43 <popey> people need to know the feature is there. if they want to hide it, they can.
16:43 <popey> anything else?
16:44 <swordfish> Great. I think it's basically everything. Sizing, keyboard bar and keyboard button.
16:44 <popey> Excellent.
16:44 <swordfish> For a first iteration should be good. I'll work on this in the weekend...
16:44 <popey> Super stuff, thanks swordfish
16:44 <popey> If niklas doesn't beat you to it :)
16:44 <JMulholland> thanks all!
16:45 <popey> Have a great weekend (and rest of week) :)
16:45 <swordfish> Thanks to all of you guys! :D ... Ahahah...
16:45 <swordfish> Thank you Niklas! :D
16:45 <popey> :)
16:45 <popey> #endmeeting