13:21 <popey> #startmeeting Music App meeting
13:21 <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Feb  9 13:21:55 2015 UTC.  The chair is popey. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
13:21 <meetingology> 
13:21 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
13:21 <popey> Thanks guys!
13:22 <popey> Ok, so jounih you had some high priority requests for this week?
13:22 * vthompson is still consuming coffee so be patient
13:22 <popey> I'll type slowly.
13:24 <jounih> morning guys!
13:24 <jounih> hehe no probs
13:24 <vthompson> jounih, do you have more specs for a converged music app for us?
13:24 <jounih> early in the us?
13:24 <ahayzen> :)
13:24 <vthompson> early-ish, 7:24am
13:25 <jounih> convergent music app - so for now I think we would follow a typical web inspired responsive design
13:25 <jounih> ie fluid design, and width based breakpoints for triggering bigger layout changes
13:26 <vthompson> how would the now playing page fit into it? right now the "side panel" view is the secondary "songs in an album" or I assume "albums by an artist"
13:26 <jounih> so for instance, we could say that if your screen width is more than say, 66GU, a page stack would be two panels side by side
13:26 <vthompson> I think we were originally envisioning a 3 panel layout
13:27 <jounih> a 3 panel layout may be possible on landscape 10” or desktop
13:27 <jounih> but might be a bit tight for say, 7” landscape
13:27 <ahayzen> so what happens to the panels when you go to a stack depth larger than the amount? eg Artists->Albums->Songs->Queue ? do we just see Songs | Queue ? or ?
13:28 <vthompson> I think we need to avoid making things looked pagestacked in a the converged app... which is going to be hard
13:28 <ahayzen> yup
13:28 <jounih> did you see this - https://www.dropbox.com/s/vly1xk8l150mx7n/music_tablet_albums2.jpg?dl=0
13:28 <ahayzen> yes
13:29 <ahayzen> so when i then select a song...what happens?
13:29 <ahayzen> do i get a now playing and queue somewhere?
13:29 <vthompson> Yep, so for that when you start the app, I assume there is no side panel? And then when you select an album, it animates inward?  If that makes sense
13:29 <jounih> what happens when you select a song now? just gets added to the queue right?
13:30 <vthompson> Yea, but a big Now playing page appears
13:30 <ahayzen> yeah or replaces ... but I mean in UI terms...at the moment we jump to the now playing page
13:30 <vthompson> it should be contained somewhere and not a separate page?
13:30 <jounih> vthompson: we could either do that, or have 2 panes at the start and on the details pane show the first album details
13:30 <jounih> ahh ok right
13:30 <jounih> we could do the same - jump to the now playing - I wonder if we can just start playing and update the bottom toolbar?
13:31 <ahayzen> unless you still push the now playing onto the stack...but have the queue as the left panel and the now playing as the right?
13:31 <jounih> might make a less disruptive experience
13:31 <jounih> we could probably do that on phone too?
13:31 <vthompson> jounih, people on the desktop will want to see largish cover art, they'll want the now playing view to go somewhere
13:31 <jounih> I think we definitely want the now playing view
13:31 <jounih> and it could even be full screen
13:32 <jounih> but just wondering if the way to get to that view would only be from tapping the toolbar or bottom edge swipe
13:32 <jounih> instead of every time you tap on a song in album details
13:32 <jounih> what do you think?
13:32 <vthompson> So if we are going to show convergence bottom edge swipe doesn't really help us
13:33 <vthompson> IMHO
13:33 <jounih> would ignore bottom edge swipe for now
13:33 <ahayzen> i think it flows quite nicely how it is at the moment...its what other apps do (jumping to now playing)?
13:33 <vthompson> In a desktop app? Most don't really jump around
13:33 <jounih> we have some suggestions on how to handle gestures on desktop, but that’s a different discussion
13:33 <vthompson> that's my point
13:33 <jounih> ok so instead of jumping around could we just update the toolbar?
13:34 <jounih> definitely on larger screens
13:34 <jounih> maybe also on phone
13:34 <ahayzen> yeah probably not in the desktop/larger devices i agree
13:34 <jounih> and if user wants to get to now playing, they could just tap the toolbar, like now
13:34 <vthompson> I'm trying to find that 3 panel view I made in that wireframing tool... popey, do you know where those live?
13:35 <popey> uh
13:35 <popey> yes.
13:35 <ahayzen> https://ubuntu.mybalsamiq.com/projects/coreappsconvergence/grid ?
13:35 <vthompson> thanks!
13:35 <popey> https://ubuntu.mybalsamiq.com/projects/ubuntuphonecoreapps/grid;jsessionid=B9407247766AFDF19C87048BF9192C50-n4
13:35 <popey> dammit
13:35 <jounih> i’m looking at spotify on desktop
13:35 <jounih> they have 3 panel view but the 3rd panel is just used for following people
13:35 <vthompson> The first two listed are the ones I made: https://ubuntu.mybalsamiq.com/projects/coreappsconvergence/Music%20app%20-%20Horizontal%20tablet
13:36 <vthompson> Yea, you know spotify would be a good app to emulate
13:37 <jounih> looking at spotify more.. i don’t think it’s really applicable, their left panel is mostly our nav drawer, plus a big album art image below it
13:37 <jounih> and all the nested content stuff happens in the middle panel
13:37 <vthompson> So I use their web app mostly (http://i.imgur.com/vNhQskZ.png)
13:38 <jounih> ahh that’s different.. let’s see
13:38 <vthompson> I think the nav bar is nice and we should do the same at some point, but for now I think having the Now Playing on the side is a great first step to convergence
13:38 <ahayzen> +1
13:39 <jounih> would you get rid of the bottom toolbar then?
13:39 <jounih> if that now playing is persistent on the side?
13:39 <vthompson> ahayzen, and I have talked about this a lot too, it requires us separating our Now Playing and Queue views so that we can have a more static experience on the desktop
13:40 <vthompson> jounih, I suppose we would
13:40 <ahayzen> yeah probably would make sense
13:40 <jounih> if we went with the design i did, keeping the bottom toolbar
13:41 <jounih> wondering if it would work or would the exploded pagestack have issues when dealing with nested pagestacks like artist->albums->details
13:42 <ahayzen> don't forget the add to playlist option that is popped on to the stack from anywhere lol
13:42 <ahayzen> it could have issues
13:42 <jounih> right, yeah
13:42 <vthompson> I think we'll have odd navigation issues for a while in the artist->album->details pattern... the best and easiest thing to add is a side now playing view
13:42 <jounih> ok let’s conside the side “now playing” view
13:42 <vthompson> page stack things will not really be solvable for now, I think
13:42 <jounih> any issues we see with that?
13:43 <ahayzen> nope ... and hide the toolbar?
13:43 <vthompson> We'd need to fully flush out separating the queue and now playing components, but we can probably do so
13:43 <jounih> yea hide toolbar
13:43 <jounih> i can see one thing we need to address too
13:43 <jounih> right now we have one header
13:43 <jounih> and all actions are in the header
13:43 <jounih> if we have two views side by side
13:44 <jounih> both views might have different actions
13:44 <ahayzen> ... header actions could be fun from a technical point of view lol ...
13:44 <jounih> and we can’t combine them in the header because there is no focus, we don’t know what view the actions apply to
13:44 <ahayzen> exactly my thought ;)
13:44 <vthompson> hm
13:44 <jounih> so I think we need to move some of the actions from the header into the “now playing” view
13:45 <jounih> or split the header, which doesn’t sound like a good idea
13:45 <jounih> wouldn’t want two headers side by side
13:45 <ahayzen> hmm
13:45 <vthompson> yea, that will be tricky, but I agree it'll need to be done
13:45 <jounih> we are thinking of changing the header component so don’t worry about what’s doable with the current SDK component
13:46 <jounih> just need to figure out what’s the best way of doing this and then extend the header component
13:46 <jounih> I would leave “global” actions like search in the main header
13:46 <jounih> and probably put view specific actions in the view itself… have to have a little think, using this example of “now playing” always on the right
13:47 <ahayzen> ok so if we have now playing on the right....we still have a toggle for it to switch to the queue right?
13:47 <vthompson> I think what we'd do is have the main app in the middle use the header, but somehow have the Now Playing on the side with the toggle, add to playlist, and add to queue header actions as buttons in the now playing view, below the play button and whatnot
13:48 <jounih> would probably make sense to have now playing/queue in the same panel, switchable with a toggle
13:48 <ahayzen> yeah ... the multiselect header actions are ok ... as you have already selected the 'focus'
13:48 <jounih> vthompson: yeah that sounds alright
13:48 <vthompson> What we'd end up with is this: https://ubuntu.mybalsamiq.com/projects/coreappsconvergence/Music%20app%20-%20Horizontal%20tablet
13:48 <jounih> so we agree on trying this? I’ll mock up some designs
13:49 <vthompson> but with the middle and right panels converted into one
13:49 <jounih> kind of yeah. i’ll do some design today and send it to you guys so we can see how it works
13:49 <vthompson> and the header actions being displayed in the Now Playing side view
13:49 <jounih> i think it’ll work ok, just have to think about how to place the actions in the “now playing” view
13:49 <vthompson> I still don't like the idea of toggling to get to the queue on the desktop... but we can work through that
13:50 <jounih> whether to have some kind of a secondary header for the actions, or just have them in the content area
13:50 <jounih> vthompson: yeah.. it’s not too bad though. Might not need to see the queue at all times if it’s an easy switch away. Could even be a keyboard shortcut
13:51 <vthompson> jounih, fair enough, I'm just used to always seeing my queue on a desktop app... I have no real expectations for a tablet app though... so ignore me :)
13:51 <jounih> no i think it’s a fair point
13:52 <vthompson> and you'll be demoing on your Nexus 10, so I don't think what we've talked about will look weird
13:52 <jounih> hey maybe we do the scrolling now playing view
13:52 <jounih> with queue at the bottom
13:52 <jounih> looking at the spotify web app
13:52 <ahayzen> Sonos app comes to mind as being similar to ours in a tablet view
13:53 <jounih> they just have an empty block below their now playing panel on the right
13:53 <ahayzen> eg with now playing/queue on right...and albums/songs/artists on left
13:53 <vthompson> jounih, I like that idea
13:53 <ahayzen> ooo that would be nice
13:53 <jounih> ok guys i’ll do some designs today :)
13:53 <vthompson> Can't promise we can delive in time, but I'd like to try to do so
13:53 <jounih> do you think there is any chance of seeing some prototype next week?
13:53 <jounih> ok you’re the man!
13:53 <jounih> mans
13:54 <jounih> men
13:54 <ahayzen> hah
13:54 <ahayzen> "the wrong mans" ... good TV series ;)
13:54 <vthompson> ahayzen and I are good at rough prototyping, we'll try to pull something together
13:54 <jounih> gotta go to a gp appointment.. promise to send something later today!
13:54 <jounih> thanks guys, great ideas
13:54 <jounih> byee!
13:55 <popey> o/
13:55 <ahayzen> thanks :)
13:55 <vthompson> later jounih good job brainstorming!
13:55 <popey> thanks guys.
13:55 <popey> all done?
13:55 <ahayzen> popey, i think so unless we have anything to discuss ourselves?
13:55 <popey> I don't
13:55 <popey> r830 just hit the store.
13:55 <ahayzen> popey, new music app just landed in the store :)
13:55 <vthompson> I think so, we just need to figure out when we'll put this together
13:55 <ahayzen> \o/
13:55 <vthompson> woohoo!
13:56 <vthompson> ahayzen, let's make a team branch sometime... from refactor, and just start pushing stuff to it
13:56 <ahayzen> yup agreed
13:56 <ahayzen> literally a prototype branch
13:56 <vthompson> yea
13:56 <popey> you may want to mark it as prototype somehow
13:57 <popey> you know how these bloggers will pick up on it and say it's the new music app
13:57 <vthompson> it'll be marked Experimental for sure :)
13:57 <ahayzen> "experimental"
13:57 <ahayzen> is what i usually do
13:57 <popey> ok
13:57 <ahayzen> or we could hide it somewhere mwhaha
13:57 <popey> (I have no problem with bloggers, for the benefit of the log)
13:57 <DanChapman> hah!
13:57 <vthompson> Let's email tarballs back and forth!!!!!1111
13:57 <ahayzen> neither do i ;)
13:57 * ahayzen waves to Joey
13:57 * popey sets up a cvs server
13:58 <ahayzen> they have bots btw :P
13:58 <popey> I met Joey for the first time on Friday!
13:58 <ahayzen> awesome!
13:58 <popey> Right, lets get more coffee!
13:58 <popey> See you later guys! Thanks
13:58 <ahayzen> thanks o/
13:58 <vthompson> Later guys! have a good one
13:58 <popey> #endmeeting