15:10 <popey> #startmeeting Ubuntu Touch Dropping letters app meeting
15:10 <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jul 10 15:10:39 2013 UTC.  The chair is popey. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
15:10 <meetingology> 
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15:10 <popey> How are you chaps?
15:10 <aquarius> ohai, although this is going to be another time when I say: I have no spare time :(
15:11 <aquarius> but I have made a note of the dedicated hackday!
15:11 <aquarius> I didn't know that they were going on.
15:11 <popey> yay
15:11 <popey> they were somewhat hurridly organised :D
15:11 <popey> blueprint: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone-commons/+spec/droppingletters-coreapps-development
15:11 <popey> bugs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/dropping-letters/+bugs
15:12 * kenvandine waves
15:12 <popey> reviews: https://code.launchpad.net/dropping-letters/+activereviews
15:12 <popey> So yes, hackdays, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/HackDays
15:12 * aquarius looks at the bug list
15:12 <popey> dogfooding see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/Dogfooding
15:12 <popey> i assigned a few to myself to look at
15:12 <popey> not had chance to yet, but will
15:12 <aquarius> um. Is there normally a way to quit a game in progress, for this sort of game? I am not sure that there is.
15:13 <popey> yeah, most games let you "Quit to title"
15:13 * aquarius looks at a couple of games
15:13 * popey tries to find examples of this
15:14 <popey> letterpress does
15:14 <aquarius> dots does.
15:14 <popey> but that's two player, and you resign
15:14 <aquarius> letterpress is turn-based
15:14 <aquarius> DL isn't -- there's a timer.
15:14 <aquarius> but dots is the same as DL
15:14 <popey> Guess the brand does
15:14 <aquarius> LP needs it because you can have multiple games going on at once :)
15:15 <aquarius> aerox does, too
15:15 <aquarius> most of them seem to have some sort of pause button you can press
15:15 <popey> that might be more appropriate
15:15 <aquarius> which brings up a menu with "exit to main", "restart", etc.
15:16 <popey> but if you get to a state where the game is a mess
15:16 <popey> and you're frustrated
15:16 <popey> "Screw this I want to start again"
15:16 <popey> like if it's dropped all Z's
15:16 <aquarius> ya. With DL there's no difference between "start this game again" and "abandon this game and start a new one", mind.
15:17 <aquarius> ahem. If it drops all Zs then that's the luck of the draw, dude, you're not supposed to quit like a big chicken if that happens ;)
15:17 <aquarius> but I take your point.
15:17 <popey> the fact that it _has_ a title screen makes me think you should be able to get back to it
15:17 <popey> it seems illogical that you can't
15:17 <aquarius> fair comment
15:17 <popey> ok, next bug :)(
15:19 <aquarius> just added a note to the bug summarising the pause button idea
15:19 <popey> ta
15:19 <aquarius> if the links in help aren't clickable, that's a QML bug, I think; they should be clickable.
15:20 <aquarius> ya, just confirmed that clicking them works on desktop
15:20 <aquarius> so that's a Touch bug if they don't work there.
15:20 <kenvandine> what do they open?
15:21 <popey> link to the cc music artist isnt it?
15:21 <aquarius> ya; they're links to whatever you'd expect them to be
15:21 <kenvandine> oh that
15:21 <kenvandine> yeah
15:21 <kenvandine> there are no url handlers on touch yet
15:22 <aquarius> ta daah
15:22 <aquarius> I commented on the bug
15:22 <kenvandine> known issue... it's being worked on :)
15:22 <kenvandine> or will be
15:22 <aquarius> but we'd expect that to Just Start Working at some point, yes? Without any DL changes?
15:22 <kenvandine> the QPA plugin needs to support it
15:22 <kenvandine> yes
15:22 <popey> ok, awesome
15:22 <popey> one less bug
15:23 <aquarius> k. that's https://bugs.launchpad.net/dropping-letters/+bug/1196872
15:23 <aquarius> I totally, totally, totally do not see the point in translating the (minimal) QML text when the dictionary isn't translated.
15:24 <popey> yeah
15:24 <popey> that can wait
15:24 <aquarius> Hands up anyone who wants a game with the word "play" on the title screen in English but the dictionary in Swahili? Hardly anyone. So having it the other way around is the same :)
15:24 <aquarius> that's why I didn't do any of the i18n stuff ;)
15:24 <popey> the translation is a master bug for all apps
15:24 <aquarius> ah ok
15:25 <aquarius> puzzled by the bug about play continuining when we hit the top
15:25 <popey> we can do that once we figure out how to do dynamic dictionaries... i.e. later
15:25 <aquarius> it should flip the screen back to the title screen when that happens
15:25 * aquarius tests
15:25 <aquarius> hey!
15:25 <popey> so basically hit play and leave it
15:25 <aquarius> we can quit to title
15:25 <aquarius> that's what the x, bottom-right, is for
15:26 <popey> that was removed ☻
15:26 <aquarius> oh REALLY
15:26 * popey points at kenvandine
15:26 <popey> the app wasn't using HUD
15:26 <aquarius> so your bug is "this used to work and then we broke it"? ;-)
15:26 <popey> haha, yes, that's exactly what it is
15:26 <kenvandine> haha
15:26 <popey> so i just need a button which hooks to that old quit code?
15:26 <aquarius> why'd'ya bust my app, kenvandine? ;-)
15:27 <popey> actually!
15:27 <kenvandine> i switched it to use the toolbar
15:27 <aquarius> gnargh
15:27 <kenvandine> for new game
15:27 <kenvandine> that x was tiny and hard to hit on the device
15:27 <popey> right, so my column is red
15:27 <aquarius> what, instead of the "play" on the front screen?
15:27 <kenvandine> so instead of going to the title screen to start a new game
15:27 <aquarius> I just got a red column, and it plays the "clang" bell, and flips the screen back to the title screen.
15:28 <popey> not here
15:28 <popey> i can still select letters
15:28 <kenvandine> when i get red it just sits there
15:28 <aquarius> then someone's bust that too
15:28 <popey> probably the same busted code
15:28 * aquarius gives the hairy eyeball to ken ;)
15:28 <popey> haha
15:28 <aquarius> the x is the same size as the letters are...
15:28 <aquarius> or it is in my last version, anyway :(
15:28 * kenvandine didn't change any gameplay :)
15:29 <aquarius> clearly I need to look at the most recent version
15:29 <popey> well, did you rip out the "quit" code from behind the button?
15:29 <kenvandine> indeed :)
15:29 <aquarius> can I just branch lp:droppping-letters?
15:29 <kenvandine> aquarius, you should have reviewed my branches :)
15:29 <kenvandine> yes
15:29 <popey> yes
15:29 * aquarius branches.
15:29 <kenvandine> There is now a "New Game" in the toolbar
15:30 <kenvandine> what is the purpose of wanting to go back to the title screen?
15:30 <popey> to see the copyright holder of the music you're not listening to because kenvandine removed that too ☻
15:30 <aquarius> hey, you took the buttons off the bottom toolbar!
15:30 <kenvandine> :-D
15:30 <aquarius> kenvandine, going back to the title screen is wanting to quit this game without starting a new one... because, say, dinner is ready
15:30 * kenvandine doesn't remember anything besides the X
15:31 <aquarius> there were two buttons on the bottom: mute, and x
15:31 <kenvandine> ah
15:31 <kenvandine> i think the mute isn't there because we disabled the sounds
15:31 <aquarius> and the bottom thing is the same size as the letters that fall from the top, which means it's big enough to press.
15:31 <kenvandine> there is a problem with the corner...
15:31 <kenvandine> gestures
15:32 <aquarius> I do not understand why DL needs an SDK toolbar at all, personally.... because you *have* to have the in-game bottom toolbar because it's where the score goes
15:32 <aquarius> ad because the game looks stupid if the letters fall right to the bottom of the screen. I tried that :)
15:33 <kenvandine> indeed
15:33 <kenvandine> i tried that too :)
15:33 <kenvandine> the toolbar gives it consistency
15:33 <kenvandine> and the X didn't make much sense to me... it was hard to hit on the phone and i didn't see a need to go back to the title screen
15:33 <aquarius> OK. The game should pause with the toolbar up, and on the toolbar should be "resume", "restart", and "quit to title"
15:33 <kenvandine> what you most likely want is to start a new game
15:33 <kenvandine> being too close to the edge is tough
15:33 <kenvandine> that makes sense
15:33 <aquarius> kenvandine, that's what the above discussion was: most games we've checked offer a "bail on this game without starting another" option.
15:34 <kenvandine> yeah, so that would be quitting the app right?
15:34 <aquarius> ah, the toolbar needs a Mute/Unmute togglebutton.
15:34 <popey> quit to title
15:34 <aquarius> no, because you can't quit apps ;)
15:34 <popey> not quit the app
15:34 <aquarius> quit to title.
15:34 <popey> oh you can, one of our other apps has a quit option
15:34 <kenvandine> when we add sound back :)
15:34 <popey> (bug filed to remove it)
15:34 <popey> we should add sound back in
15:34 <popey> and let it crash on nexus 7 ☻
15:34 <kenvandine> does it not crash on the n7?
15:35 <popey> yes, yes it does
15:35 <popey> which is a platform problem
15:35 <kenvandine> we need it to be more robust :)
15:35 <popey> apps shouldn't crash when they can't play audio
15:35 <kenvandine> right
15:36 <aquarius> are you sure DL itself crashes? That is: it's not the platform? I think that the problem is that you ask for audio and the qml engine crashes; it's not something you can work around in an app
15:36 <kenvandine> but right now the nexus 7 is what our users are most likely to be using
15:36 <kenvandine> aquarius, right
15:36 <kenvandine> we can't do anything about it
15:36 <aquarius> what DL should do, if it asks for an Audio object and something is wrong, is whine about it on the console ;)
15:36 <kenvandine> the platform needs fixing
15:36 <aquarius> ah, right, cool
15:37 <kenvandine> nexus 7 is our most common device, since a bunch of them were giving out at UDS last year :)
15:37 <kenvandine> and it is one of our 4 supported devices
15:38 <kenvandine> popey, there is a bug tracking that issue right?
15:38 <kenvandine> it's widely known... but i've never actually seen a bug # for it
15:38 <popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/dropping-letters/+bug/1196865
15:38 <popey> oh, in the platform?
15:38 <kenvandine> yeah
15:38 <popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-nexus7/+bug/1068804
15:39 <popey> hmm, thats the desktop build
15:39 <aquarius> is there some event I can hook for when the toolbar shows?
15:40 <kenvandine> yeah
15:40 <popey> cant find one
15:40 <aquarius> quitting to title is trivial: just add a toolbaraction which sets flipable.flipped to false ;)
15:40 <kenvandine> toolbar.active
15:40 <kenvandine> i think
15:40 <kenvandine> or .opened
15:40 <kenvandine> i can't remember, the API has changed a couple times :)
15:41 <aquarius> hrm, it's neither of those :(
15:42 <kenvandine> it's .opened
15:42 <kenvandine> http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/devel/ubuntu-13.10/qml/ui-toolkit/qml-ubuntu-components0-toolbaractions.html
15:42 <aquarius> oh
15:42 <aquarius> maybe it is in saucy
15:42 <aquarius> so I can't do that, then
15:42 <kenvandine> and the sdk ppa
15:42 <aquarius> sdk ppa?
15:43 <aquarius> I can get all the up to date stuff on raring?
15:43 <kenvandine> the one we suggest developers on raring to use
15:43 <kenvandine> yes
15:43 <popey> http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/
15:43 <popey> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:canonical-qt5-edgers/qt5-proper && sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ubuntu-sdk-team/ppa
15:43 <popey> those two
15:43 * aquarius adds
15:43 <aquarius> OK, I'll doa  branch which pauses the game when the toolbar is up, and lets you exit to the title screen
15:44 <popey> oh awesome, thanks.
15:44 <kenvandine> aquarius, great!
15:44 * kenvandine needs to prepare for another meeting... gotta run
15:44 <kenvandine> thanks guys!
15:45 <popey> thanks kenvandine
15:45 <popey> ok, lets wrap up..
15:45 <aquarius> popey, thoughts on what the "quit to title" button should be called?
15:45 <popey> aquarius: lemme know when the branch is done and I'll test on device
15:45 <popey> "Quit"
15:45 <aquarius> that would suggest that it quits the app, no?
15:45 <popey> Exit suggests leave the app to me
15:45 <popey> quit doesnt
15:47 <popey> I mean, if you're in a game and you choose quit, you're definitely saying "I don't want to play this anymore"
15:48 <popey> whether that quits to title or to shell is largely unimportant
15:48 <aquarius> fair
15:49 <popey> #endmeeting