20:01:26 <popey> #startmeeting Ubuntu Touch File Manager app meeting
20:01:26 <meetingology> Meeting started Thu May  9 20:01:26 2013 UTC.  The chair is popey. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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20:01:50 <popey> how are you both>?
20:01:55 <popey> blueprint: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone-commons/+spec/initial-filemanager-development
20:02:31 <popey> reviews: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-filemanager-dev/ubuntu-filemanager-app/trunk/+activereviews
20:02:39 <popey> bugs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-filemanager-app
20:02:48 <ajalkane> hi
20:04:02 <popey> I'll change that bug about the apps not appearing in the home page, because that's not a bug in your app
20:04:19 <ajalkane> Aye
20:05:35 <popey> CarlosMazieri: i note you put a comment on the blueprint about porting back the nemo plugin to qt4
20:05:41 <popey> is that so it's acceptable to upstream?
20:05:52 <popey> or some other reason?
20:06:03 <CarlosMazieri> YES, I decided to test it using Qt4 and it did not work
20:06:46 <CarlosMazieri> There was a bug regarding clipboard handling which for some reason worked in QT5.
20:06:58 <CarlosMazieri> it is already fixed. I will release a new version
20:07:31 <popey> great
20:07:36 <CarlosMazieri> Now it is OK, tested Qt4.74 and Qt8.43
20:07:59 <popey> http://theravingrick.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/woof-woof.html may be interesting to you guys
20:08:12 <popey> we're planning on having the phone "usable" as a daily driver by the end of the month
20:08:24 <ajalkane> That's cool
20:08:30 <popey> so the goal is we'll be dogfooding the device running ubuntu
20:08:45 <ajalkane> Yeah I think that's really important
20:09:05 <popey> totally, we'll discover so much more about what's wrong with it, while carrying it around
20:09:22 <ajalkane> Although I won't be able to eat the dogfood unless it's ported to N9, which is probably not happening
20:09:30 <popey> unlikely
20:09:48 <popey> i know a few canonical people have n9's
20:09:55 <popey> quite a few
20:10:01 <popey> some still use it as their main phone
20:10:30 <CarlosMazieri> How about icons ??
20:10:58 <popey> I thought we discussed that previously?
20:11:27 <popey> General advice was to use what you can get hold of because the design team don't have a task to create new ones anytime soon.
20:11:31 <CarlosMazieri> YES, but it requires dome implementation does not ?
20:11:56 <popey> ah sorry, misunderstood
20:12:17 <CarlosMazieri> does it requires some implementation, right ?
20:12:29 <popey> hmm, thought we added a task for it to the blueprint. my mistake
20:13:48 <CarlosMazieri> qt5 has QmimeDatabase and QMimeType
20:13:52 <popey> so yes, we need to find some icons which are appropriate and can be used (compatibile license)
20:14:22 <popey> and implement their use.
20:15:41 <ajalkane> Is there some library to figure out what icon to show for what filetype?
20:16:05 <popey> is that not what qtmimetype does?
20:16:25 * popey rtfm's
20:17:19 <popey> http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.0/qtcore/qmimedatabase.html
20:17:29 <CarlosMazieri> QmimeDatabase and QMimeType gives the mime type, for assigning them to mime types, I think that is necessary to build a database
20:17:37 <ajalkane> Seems to. No QML part so it has to be implemented to the plugin I guess
20:17:48 <CarlosMazieri> YES.
20:18:37 <popey> so we have some work items to define
20:18:39 <ajalkane> Though the docs are a bit ambivalent... "Returns file name of an icon", but path or documentation of Ubuntu's image provider to use it properly is needed
20:18:54 <popey> indeed
20:20:04 <CarlosMazieri> some xdg database needs to be provided
20:21:58 <popey> what normally provides that? on a desktop for example
20:22:03 <popey> does it come with the icon theme
20:22:33 <CarlosMazieri> KDE and gnome do
20:24:18 <popey> hmm
20:25:13 <popey> makes sense to use the existing ubuntu icons from the desktop really.
20:25:42 <popey> given it's already packaged
20:25:47 <ajalkane> Yes but the problem is how to associate filetypes/mimetypes in a folder with bunch of files to their icons
20:25:49 <popey> humanity-icon-theme
20:26:03 <ajalkane> Ie. we get ".txt" file, what is the path to the icon? You can't hard-code those
20:26:12 <ajalkane> You need some library that provides what icon to use
20:26:25 <ajalkane> Gnome and KDE most likely provides tools for that
20:26:38 <ajalkane> Does Ubuntu Phone has something like that for QML?
20:26:41 <popey> not an extractable database?
20:26:53 <CarlosMazieri> I think that is xdg implementation
20:26:56 <popey> I don't think so, but I can check with the SDK guys
20:27:50 <ajalkane> CarlosMazieri: I think XDG only provides the icons for launchable applications (ie. .desktop files). I might be wrong.
20:28:01 <popey> shared-mime-info looks like the package
20:28:22 <popey> Description-en: FreeDesktop.org shared MIME database and spec This is the shared MIME-info database from the X Desktop Group. It is required by any program complying to the Shared MIME-Info Database spec, which is also included in this package. . At this time at least ROX, GNOME, KDE and XFCE use this database.
20:30:06 <popey> perhaps that could be of use?
20:30:14 <ajalkane> I'm not sure if that's applicable
20:30:27 <CarlosMazieri> ajalkane:  I have used xdg-open which opens a file with a suitable application
20:30:35 <ajalkane> Ie. think about theming. Each theme can have different icons
20:30:47 <ajalkane> So there probably is another layer on top of those mimetype mappings
20:30:57 <ajalkane> CarlosMazieri: that's a different case
20:31:14 <ajalkane> Opening an application and determining what icon to use for a random file are different things
20:31:39 <ajalkane> xdg-open uses the mimetypes file to determine what application to use for opening the file
20:31:51 <ajalkane> An icon to associate could use similar mapping
20:32:00 <ajalkane> But the theming aspect of it suspects there's another layer
20:32:13 <ajalkane> http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/shared-mime-info-spec
20:32:30 <ajalkane> "Integration with icon themes has not been finalised (and is not currently part of the specification)."
20:33:12 <popey> i imagine when installing an icon theme debian package there are some post-inst hooks which update the system with the new icon locations
20:33:43 <popey> i have a horrid feeling gnome-settings-daemon is responsible for some of this
20:33:49 <ajalkane> There is though this linked from above page: https://github.com/vilkov/libxdg/wiki
20:34:27 <ajalkane> It implements this: http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications/icon-theme-spec
20:39:18 <ajalkane> The documentation does not seem too complete, but something like that is required.
20:39:40 <ajalkane> Plus integration to QML
20:40:10 <ajalkane> Of course one alternative is to forget about icons in FileManager for now.
20:40:36 <popey> heh, true.
20:40:37 <ajalkane> Except for like "This is a folder, this is a file" kind of crude iconing.
20:41:56 <popey> I'm inclined to agree.
20:42:32 <popey> You could go further with "these are devices" but I don't think you necessarily need doc, xls, odt etc
20:44:04 <ajalkane> If that's the approach taken, we can for now hard-code the icons in QML for what the QML plugin provides. I don't think it currently provides for devices, but folder/file information is there.
20:44:50 <popey> for devices (and other 'not a file / not a folder' type files) I'd be inclined to look for something which implies "don't click this"
20:45:14 <popey> or even hide them, colour them or shade them
20:46:14 <ajalkane> I think whatever the final icons will be, have to be decided once Ubuntu Touch icons are in place and the overall look of the platform is quite ready. It's easy to put placeholders for now.
20:46:43 <ajalkane> And if I remember correctly folder icons might have placeholders already
20:47:23 <ajalkane> But devices probably need some support to QML plugin first
20:48:10 <popey> ok.
20:48:34 <popey> for a 1.0 release we don't need to go mad with the theme.
20:48:44 <popey> especially as the visual design isn't complete
20:48:53 <CarlosMazieri> ok
20:49:03 <popey> anything else?
20:49:09 <popey> we overran a bit ㋛
20:49:20 <CarlosMazieri> No from my side
20:49:44 <CarlosMazieri> until next week
20:49:50 <popey> thanks guys!
20:49:53 <ajalkane> True that... I'm not going to be able to do much in the future, so I try and concentrate on little bug fixes and improvements that come in the way
20:49:57 <ajalkane> Cya next week!
20:50:09 <popey> great ajalkane
20:50:13 <popey> #endmeeting