== Meeting information ==

 * #ubuntu-meeting: Developer Membership Board meeting, started by rbasak, 16 Sep at 16:27 — 17:58 UTC.
 * Full logs at https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2024/ubuntu-meeting.2024-09-16-16.27.log.html



== Meeting summary ==

=== Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications ===

Discussion started by rbasak at 16:27.

 * '''PPU application for s390-tools by Frank Heimes at DMB meeting 2024-09-16 (will also join meeting on 2024-09-02, just in case there is remaining time, if not it's also fine).'''  (rbasak, 16:27)
  * ''LINK:'' https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/oracular-oriole-release-schedule   (fheimes, 16:32)
  * ''LINK:'' https://ubuntu-archive-team.ubuntu.com/proposed-migration/oracular/update_excuses.html#s390-tools   (fheimes, 16:41)
  * ''VOTE:'' Grant fheimes PPU for s390-tools and s390-tools-signed (Carried)  (rbasak, 16:52)
  * ''ACTION:'' utkarsh2102 to announce fheimes' successful application  (rbasak, 16:52)
  * ''ACTION:'' rbasak to add fheimes PPU ACL  (rbasak, 16:52)
 * '''PPU application for cloud-init by Alberto Contreras at DMB meeting 2024-09-16 (as 2024-09-02 did not happen).'''  (bdrung, 16:58)
  * ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlbertoContreras/DeveloperPerPackageUploadApplication   (bdrung, 16:59)
  * ''VOTE:'' Grant Alberto Contreras (aciba) PPU for cloud-init (Carried)  (utkarsh2102, 17:56)
  * ''ACTION:'' rbasak to add aciba to the right place & utkarsh2102 to announce the successful application  (utkarsh2102, 17:57)



== Vote results ==

 * [[https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2024/ubuntu-meeting.2024-09-16-16.27.log.html#59|Grant fheimes PPU for s390-tools and s390-tools-signed]]
  * Motion carried (For: 5, Against: 0, Abstained: 0)
   * Voters: rbasak, bdrung, utkarsh2102, bdmurray, teward
 * [[https://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2024/ubuntu-meeting.2024-09-16-16.27.log.html#216|Grant Alberto Contreras (aciba) PPU for cloud-init]]
  * Motion carried (For: 4, Against: 0, Abstained: 0)
   * Voters: utkarsh2102, bdrung, teward, bdmurray



== Action items, by person ==

 * aciba
  * rbasak to add aciba to the right place & utkarsh2102 to announce the successful application
 * fheimes
  * utkarsh2102 to announce fheimes' successful application
  * rbasak to add fheimes PPU ACL
 * rbasak
  * rbasak to add fheimes PPU ACL
  * rbasak to add aciba to the right place & utkarsh2102 to announce the successful application
 * utkarsh2102
  * utkarsh2102 to announce fheimes' successful application
  * rbasak to add aciba to the right place & utkarsh2102 to announce the successful application



== People present (lines said) ==

 * utkarsh2102 (49)
 * aciba (47)
 * rbasak (41)
 * bdrung (38)
 * fheimes (33)
 * meetingology (25)
 * teward (12)
 * bdmurray (3)
 * pleia2 (1)



== Full log ==


 16:27 <rbasak> #startmeeting Developer Membership Board

 16:27 <meetingology> Meeting started at 16:27:32 UTC.  The chair is rbasak.  Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology

 16:27 <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick

 16:27 <rbasak> #topic Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications

 16:27 <rbasak> #subtopic PPU application for s390-tools by Frank Heimes at DMB meeting 2024-09-16 (will also join meeting on 2024-09-02, just in case there is remaining time, if not it's also fine).

 16:28 <rbasak> fheimes: o/

 16:28 <fheimes> hi \o

 16:28 <fheimes> shall I introduce myself quickly?

 16:28 <rbasak> Sure, thanks.

 16:29 <fheimes> Ok, I'm Frank (fheimes) and work at Canonical's Partner Engineering department (formerly known as hardware enablement) and the Partner I take care of is IBM, with their Z platform (s390x) and their IBM Power family (ppc64el)

 16:30 <fheimes> Prior to my time at Canonical I worked at IBM's R&D lab in Germany in the area of Linux, esp. Linux on s390x.

 16:30 <fheimes> So, I take care about s390x hw enablement duties, I do quite some work in the s390x space, hence me applying for PPU for s390-tools (package set, consists of two packages).

 16:30 <teward> rbasak: sorry for lateness.  (had an IRL emergency problem)

 16:31 <rbasak> OK, questions for fheimes then please.

 16:31 <rbasak> Where can the release schedule be found, and on what date was the freeze for Oracular?

 16:32 <fheimes> that can be found on discourse, there are release schedule pages for all Ubuntu releases, let me quickly find it ...

 16:32 <fheimes> https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/oracular-oriole-release-schedule

 16:33 <fheimes> FF was on Aug 15th

 16:33 <rbasak> fheimes: OK. And if it's after feature freeze, Oracular has 2.34.0-0ubuntu2 and s390x-tools upstream release 2.34.1, what do you need to check to verify that an upload to Oracular will not violate feature freeze?

 16:33 <fheimes> today was beta and hwe freeze

 16:34 <fheimes> well, there are several things (I guess)

 16:34 <fheimes> one thing to check is if the new release is a bug fix release only

 16:35 <fheimes> (there is a high chance with a x.y.1)

 16:35 <fheimes> if it incl. new features, that are urgently needed and it would violate the FF, then a FFe can be thought of

 16:36 <fheimes> if a new version incl. new features AND bug fixes and some fixes are needed, then they need to be cherry-picked -- the package can no longer be simply version bumped after the FF

 16:37 <fheimes> I hope I covered what you were looking for?

 16:37 <rbasak> Yes thanks. Typing question next question...

 16:37 <rbasak> If you upload and it gets "stuck in proposed", who is expected to resolve the situation?

 16:38 <fheimes> well, it's primarily me

 16:39 <rbasak> OK. And how would you approach that - for example where's the documentation for dealing with this situation?

 16:39 <fheimes> I'll should check and shepared the package through the process and should see when it gets stuck, but I will also get a notification in case it's stuck for a certain amount of time

 16:40 <fheimes> I would first of all look at launchpad, trying to find out why it's stuck (FTBFS, missing approval)

 16:41 <fheimes> britney is another source, actually the update excuses page, like:

 16:41 <fheimes> https://ubuntu-archive-team.ubuntu.com/proposed-migration/oracular/update_excuses.html#s390-tools

 16:42 <rbasak> Do you get dep8 results for s390-tools in practice?

 16:42 <fheimes> there are many docs where someone can find more info on what to do, for example in case of an SRU: https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html

 16:42 <rbasak> I see the packaging doesn't ship tests (I think?) but maybe you get rdep dep8 tests triggered?

 16:43 <fheimes> @rbasak: the status on that is what I can see here: https://ubuntu-archive-team.ubuntu.com/proposed-migration/oracular/update_excuses.html#s390-tools

 16:44 <rbasak> There's nothing there at the moment though because it isn't pending migration right now

 16:44 <fheimes> and I can often find directly the reason there (failt to build, missing approval etc)

 16:44 <fheimes> yes, that's correct atm there is nothing there (was just an example in case its stuck)

 16:44 <utkarsh2102> question: what if it's not there (update_excuses.html) and the package has still not migrated?

 16:45 <utkarsh2102> where will you look?

 16:45 <utkarsh2102> or what will you do?

 16:45 <fheimes> and failed tests of dependent packages can be identified and if needed, retriggered (in different ways) or tests fixed (if needed)

 16:46 <fheimes> this is a good doc on this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ProposedMigration#How_to_re-run_autopkgtests_with_dependencies_on_other_packages_in_the_proposed_pocket that I sometimes refer to

 16:47 <rbasak> Thanks. I have no further questions!

 16:47 <rbasak> Does anyone else have any further questions for fheimes?

 16:47 <utkarsh2102> my question^

 16:47 <bdrung> fheimes, have you considered adding dep8 tests to s390-tools?

 16:48 <fheimes> so far I got cases where things fauiled to migrate (https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/) via LP itself, and update excuses

 16:48 <utkarsh2102> ok, gotcha

 16:48 <utkarsh2102> fine, it's okay

 16:48 <rbasak> Sorry I thought he was answering it in his subsequent messages

 16:49 <rbasak> OK, are we all ready to vote?

 16:49 <fheimes> yes, I have considered that - there is a local version that I havebut it's difficult to trigger that automatically, since special hw access is needed, that is no always possible in KVM

 16:49 <utkarsh2102> yes, ready to vote

 16:49 <bdrung> i am ready to vote as well

 16:50 <rbasak> #vote Grant fheimes PPU for s390-tools and s390-tools-signed

 16:50 <meetingology> Please vote on: Grant fheimes PPU for s390-tools and s390-tools-signed

 16:50 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, -1 or +0 in channel (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1|-1|+0 #channelname')

 16:50 <rbasak> +1

 16:50 <meetingology> +1 received from rbasak

 16:50 <bdrung> +1

 16:50 <meetingology> +1 received from bdrung

 16:50 <fheimes> (for example test on s390x hw cryptography can only be run if the hw got passed throught to a KVM instance, and ensuring that in PS is barely possible ...)

 16:50 <rbasak> Sorry I was just checking the application page for the exact set of package names, and then started pondering about the -signed PPA business.

 16:50 <fheimes> oh ...

 16:50 <rbasak> But I think it's probably irrelevant for initial PPU.

 16:50 <utkarsh2102> +1; Frank has a lot of experience with the package and I think I trust him to be an excellent in taking care of the package.

 16:50 <meetingology> +1; Frank has a lot of experience with the package and I think I trust him to be an excellent in taking care of the package. received from utkarsh2102

 16:50 <bdmurray> +1

 16:50 <meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray

 16:51 <utkarsh2102> omg, bdmurray, hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!

 16:51 <rbasak> teward: are you available to vote?

 16:51 <teward> yes i am 1 minute

 16:51 <utkarsh2102> rbasak: we already have 4 votes

 16:51 <teward> +1

 16:51 <meetingology> +1 received from teward

 16:51 <utkarsh2102> ah nice

 16:51 <utkarsh2102> perfect!

 16:51 <rbasak> Yeah but people should have the opportunity to register if they dissent :)

 16:51 <teward> rbasak: voted.  sorry but like 2 minutes ago I get a call from CEO at DAYJOB

 16:52 <teward> and that's one of those "Always Answer" cases

 16:52 <rbasak> (and it's nice when they also +1)

 16:52 <rbasak> #endvote

 16:52 <meetingology> Voting ended on: Grant fheimes PPU for s390-tools and s390-tools-signed

 16:52 <meetingology> Votes for: 5, Votes against: 0, Abstentions: 0

 16:52 <meetingology> Motion carried

 16:52 <utkarsh2102> fheimes: hey, congratulations! <3

 16:52 <rbasak> Congratulations fheimes!

 16:52 <pleia2> congrats fheimes :)

 16:52 <utkarsh2102> rbasak: can you add his acl and I can take care of the announcement?

 16:52 <rbasak> Any volunteers for the action items to enact this?

 16:52 <aciba> congrats fheimes

 16:52 <rbasak> ack

 16:52 <utkarsh2102> coolio

 16:52 <rbasak> #action utkarsh2102 to announce fheimes' successful application

 16:52 * meetingology utkarsh2102 to announce fheimes' successful application

 16:52 <fheimes> Many thx ! I'm excited and happy !

 16:52 <rbasak> #action rbasak to add fheimes PPU ACL

 16:52 * meetingology rbasak to add fheimes PPU ACL

 16:53 <bdrung> congratulations

 16:53 <utkarsh2102> I know we are running out of time but can we look at aciba, too?

 16:53 <rbasak> I have a hard stop

 16:53 <bdrung> fheimes, I missed to ask one very important question since you stated that you live in the Schwäbische Alb: What is a Muggeseggele?

 16:53 <utkarsh2102> teward, bdrung, bdmurray?

 16:53 <teward> i have no objection

 16:53 <bdrung> ;-)

 16:53 <bdrung> no objections

 16:53 <utkarsh2102> rbasak: but are you okay with cloud-init PPU?

 16:53 <fheimes> oh, hey pleia2 !

 16:53 <rbasak> I'm OK if you'd like to continue anyway. If you can please ask the usual questions then I'll check back later and vote if needed.

 16:54 <rbasak> On the matter of cloud-init PPU, I believe Chad already has PPU for cloud-init?

 16:54 <aciba> Chad and James have

 16:54 <utkarsh2102> i think he does

 16:54 <utkarsh2102> yes

 16:54 <fheimes> @bdrung I'm living here, but didn't grew up here, but nevertheless it is a very small unit ;-)

 16:55 <rbasak> I'd like to see that ML thread concluded with DMB consensus on the topic, but maybe it's best to follow existing precedent for cloud-init in the meantime

 16:55 <rbasak> Seeing as aciba has already been let down

 16:55 <utkarsh2102> i don't understand what that means

 16:55 <rbasak> And because it'd be a separate matter as to whether cloud-init is considered "core".

 16:55 <bdrung> fheimes, I was born in Baden-Württemberg, but grew up in Berlin.

 16:56 <utkarsh2102> are you okay with us continuing?

 16:56 <rbasak> I think it is probably "core", but cloud-init has been working well enough with PPU recently, especially as any changes have to effectively pass an SRU reviewer anyway.

 16:56 <rbasak> are you okay with us continuing> yes

 16:56 <utkarsh2102> great!

 16:57 <rbasak> #chair utkarsh2102 bdrung bdmurray teward

 16:57 <meetingology> Current chairs: bdmurray, bdrung, rbasak, teward, utkarsh2102

 16:57 <rbasak> I need to step away imminently so someone else will need to take over chairing

 16:57 <utkarsh2102> bdrung: are you okay to chair?

 16:58 <bdrung> okay

 16:58 <bdrung> #subtopic PPU application for cloud-init by Alberto Contreras at DMB meeting 2024-09-16 (as 2024-09-02 did not happen).

 16:58 <utkarsh2102> \o/

 16:59 <aciba> o/

 16:59 <bdrung> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlbertoContreras/DeveloperPerPackageUploadApplication

 16:59 <bdrung> aciba, do you quickly want to introduce yourself?

 16:59 <aciba> yes

 16:59 <aciba> I am Alberto Contreras, I have been working for Canonical during the last ~2.5 years as part of the Canonical Public Cloud (CPC) team focused on cloud-init on cloud-specific features / fixes.

 17:00 <aciba> I would like to apply to get upload permissions for cloud-init.

 17:00 <aciba> More about myself and the application: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlbertoContreras/DeveloperPerPackageUploadApplication

 17:01 <bdrung> Thanks. Questions for aciba please.

 17:04 <bdrung> aciba, you list LP #2045582 as first entry under areas of work. What went well there and what did you learn there?

 17:05 <utkarsh2102> aciba: question - after you answer the above, what happens if the verification of the SRU fails? what do we do then?

 17:06 <aciba> the sru process, having the package in -proposed allowed other developers to test that new version and detect a couple of bugs prior to releasing it, iirc

 17:07 <aciba> so we detected a couple of bugs and proposed a new version of the package with those bugs fixed to be SRUed

 17:09 <bdrung> thanks. perfect transition to utkarsh2102's question

 17:10 <aciba> if the verification fails in a valid way, we need to hold that version and fix it

 17:10 <aciba> proposing a new version including the fix or fixes

 17:10 <aciba> as we did in #2045582

 17:10 <aciba> we need to add the tags as verification failed to the lp bug

 17:11 <utkarsh2102> perfect, thanks

 17:11 <utkarsh2102> aciba: what freezes do you need to keep in mind before uploading?

 17:12 <aciba> feature freeze, documentation freeze, beta freeze, final freeze, they are doucmented here: https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/oracular-oriole-release-schedule/36460

 17:12 <utkarsh2102> great

 17:12 <bdrung> aciba, when you upload a package to the archive, which steps are taken until the package hits the release pocket?

 17:13 <aciba> typically: unnapproved queue > -proposed > -updates

 17:14 <aciba> those steps are outlined here: https://canonical-sru-docs.readthedocs-hosted.com/en/latest/howto/standard/

 17:14 <bdrung> aciba, and in case of uploads to oracular?

 17:15 <aciba> it depends on the time of the release cycle we are at

 17:16 <aciba> prior to feature freeze, it goes directly to the release pockets

 17:16 <aciba> after feature freeze but prio to the release, it requires a ffe and goes directly to the release pocket after the ffe has cleared

 17:17 <aciba> before release it follows the normal SRU process

 17:17 <aciba> that is: unnapproved queue > -proposed > -updates

 17:18 <bdrung> did you mean s/before release/after release/?

 17:18 <aciba> yes, sorry

 17:19 <bdrung> aciba, there is a step in between the upload and release pocket on the development series.

 17:20 <aciba> it goes to the unpproved queue, but it gets automatically accepted under certain circumstances,

 17:21 <bdrung> aciba, and what about autopkgtest?

 17:21 <aciba> they are run when the package hits -proposed, every reverse dependency's dep8 test on the package get executed

 17:22 <aciba> on can see the results in the update excuses page

 17:22 <aciba> and the SRU drive must monitor and take care of them

 17:22 <aciba> s/drive/driver/

 17:23 <bdrung> aciba, are autopkgtest only run for SRU uploads and not for development release uploads?

 17:24 <aciba> the rdeps ones yes, I belive the ones associated with the package itself do run on every build

 17:27 <bdrung> package uploads to the development release and up in -proposed first.

 17:28 <bdrung> s/and/end/

 17:28 <aciba> then yes, autopkgtest run for development release uploads

 17:29 <bdrung> Do you need a FFe for every upload after the feature freeze (and before the release)?

 17:30 <aciba> no, for example, if there is a new upstream version that contains only bug fixes, then a new upload containing that does not require and ffe

 17:30 <aciba> before the release, the SRU process holds

 17:30 <bdrung> s/before/after/?

 17:30 <aciba> s/after/before/ again

 17:31 <aciba> sorry I am a bit nervous

 17:31 <bdrung> thanks for being honest here (written text does not convey things like that)

 17:32 <aciba> exceptions to the FFe process can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureFreeze and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess

 17:33 <bdrung> Any questions from my DMB fellows?

 17:35 <utkarsh2102> not from me

 17:35 <teward> none here

 17:35 <bdrung> aciba, You list https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/commit/57bb32388 as one example. Anything one should be aware of when (re)moving files in /etc?

 17:38 <aciba> it should not changer behavior, it should not remove config files created by the user

 17:39 <aciba> it should aviod user intervention

 17:39 <aciba> s/aviod/avoid

 17:41 <aciba> does that satisfy your question?

 17:41 <bdrung> aciba, if upstream decides to drop a file in /etc can the package just remove the file in /etc on upgrade?

 17:43 <aciba> drop the file how?

 17:43 <aciba> at runtime?

 17:44 <aciba> bdrung

 17:44 <bdrung> drop = delete / not ship it in the file in the release tarball

 17:44 <aciba> yes, the package maint scripts can delete a config file when it is not need anymore

 17:45 <aciba> but it depends in a case by case basis  I think

 17:45 <bdrung> aciba, and in case the file was modified by the user?

 17:45 <aciba> we should minimize user disruption

 17:46 <aciba> and if the user modified the file, the maint scripts shouldn't remove the file

 17:46 <bdrung> perfect thanks. i was aiming for the helpers from https://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/noble/en/man1/dpkg-maintscript-helper.1.html to be used to handle that.

 17:47 <bdrung> I am done with my questions.

 17:47 <bdrung> Everyone ready for voting?

 17:47 <utkarsh2102> yes

 17:47 <utkarsh2102> teward, bdmurray?

 17:47 <bdmurray> I have no questions.

 17:48 <utkarsh2102> bdrung: i think we should proceed

 17:48 <utkarsh2102> it's wayyyyy over time

 17:49 <utkarsh2102> teward will follow up

 17:49 <teward> no questions

 17:49 <utkarsh2102> there :)

 17:49 <bdrung> #vote Grant Alberto Contreras (aciba) PPU for cloud-init

 17:49 <meetingology> Please vote on: Grant Alberto Contreras (aciba) PPU for cloud-init

 17:49 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, -1 or +0 in channel (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1|-1|+0 #channelname')

 17:49 <teward> (you already asked if we had more questions and I didn't)

 17:51 <utkarsh2102> writing a review..

 17:53 <utkarsh2102> +1; I think Alberto has quite a lot of experience with cloud-init & its internals. I think they'd be a great addition as an uploader of the package. Yes, there were some answers which weren't completely clear but that's okay, I think those are smaller and can be learned on the fly. Alberto, I'd ask you to exercise your upload rights with caution &

 17:53 <meetingology> +1; I think Alberto has quite a lot of experience with cloud-init & its internals. I think they'd be a great addition as an uploader of the package. Yes, there were some answers which weren't completely clear but that's okay, I think those are smaller and can be learned on the fly. Alberto, I'd ask you to exercise your upload rights with caution & received from utkarsh2102

 17:53 <utkarsh2102> please don't hesitate to ask before uploading or whenever in doubt. More reviews, better the upload is. So please keep in mind all those things when you upload. ;)

 17:54 <utkarsh2102> bdrung, bdmurray, teward?

 17:55 <bdrung> +1 I concur what utkarsh2102 wrote

 17:55 <meetingology> +1 I concur what utkarsh2102 wrote received from bdrung

 17:55 <teward> +!

 17:55 <teward> oops

 17:55 <teward> +1

 17:55 <meetingology> +1 received from teward

 17:55 <bdmurray> +1

 17:55 <meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray

 17:56 <utkarsh2102> #endvote

 17:56 <meetingology> Voting ended on: Grant Alberto Contreras (aciba) PPU for cloud-init

 17:56 <meetingology> Votes for: 4, Votes against: 0, Abstentions: 0

 17:56 <meetingology> Motion carried

 17:56 <utkarsh2102> yay!

 17:56 <utkarsh2102> aciba: congratulations! <3

 17:56 <aciba> wow, many thanks, I will take care and ask when in doubt

 17:56 <utkarsh2102> aciba: super! thank you!

 17:57 <bdrung> aciba, congrats. asking when in doubt is the correct mindset. nobody knows everything.

 17:57 <utkarsh2102> #action rbasak to add aciba to the right place & utkarsh2102 to announce the successful application

 17:57 * meetingology rbasak to add aciba to the right place & utkarsh2102 to announce the successful application

 17:57 <utkarsh2102> ok, I'm going to call if off. It was a pretty long meeting :)

 17:57 <utkarsh2102> thank you so much for chairing, bdrung.

 17:57 <aciba> much appreciated, have a good day o/

 17:57 <bdrung> exactly

 17:57 <utkarsh2102> you were great! o/

 17:58 <utkarsh2102> #endmeeting



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