16:12 <ddstreet> #startmeeting Ubuntu Developer Membership Board 16:12 <meetingology> Meeting started at 16:12:48 UTC. The chair is ddstreet. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology 16:12 <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick 16:13 <ddstreet> #topic Current meeting chair 16:13 <ddstreet> this hasn't been discussed for a while, but I think having only sil2100 on the list doesn't seem optimal; anyone else want to volunteer to be on the chairing rotation? 16:14 <ddstreet> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda 16:14 <ddstreet> for reference, the agenda i'm going thru 16:14 <bdmurray> I would after a couple of more meetings 16:14 <seb128> I will do aft... same 16:14 <ddstreet> ok guess we can bring it up again at later mtg 16:14 <ddstreet> i'll skip the long-term action items as we usually do 16:15 <seb128> 👍 16:15 <ddstreet> #topic previous action items 16:15 <ddstreet> #subtopic ddstreet announce fnordahl successful application 16:15 <ddstreet> this is done 16:15 <ddstreet> #subtopic ddstreet adjust fnordahl PPU acl 16:15 <ddstreet> this is done, i haven't checked the TB bug (there is a later item to check it) 16:15 <ddstreet> #subtopic kanashiro announce athos successful application 16:15 <ddstreet> this is listed as done 16:16 <ddstreet> #subtopic kanashiro adjust athos ACL for MOTU 16:16 <ddstreet> also listed as done 16:16 <ddstreet> #subtopic sil2100 update application docs and possibly DMB checklist, to make sure candidates have signed CoC before applying and before DMB approves (carried over) 16:16 <ddstreet> i assume this should be carried over, as he's not here 16:16 <ddstreet> #action sil2100 update application docs and possibly DMB checklist, to make sure candidates have signed CoC before applying and before DMB approves (carried over) 16:16 * meetingology sil2100 update application docs and possibly DMB checklist, to make sure candidates have signed CoC before applying and before DMB approves (carried over) 16:16 <ddstreet> #subtopic sil2100 start discussion on process/rules for when to create packageset vs PPU 16:17 <ddstreet> will carry over as well since he's busy at the sprint 16:17 <ddstreet> #action sil2100 start discussion on process/rules for when to create packageset vs PPU (carried over) 16:17 * meetingology sil2100 start discussion on process/rules for when to create packageset vs PPU (carried over) 16:17 <ddstreet> #subtopic teward follow up to get all application process wiki/docs to explain the process to be able to edit wiki pages, for applicants who don't yet have wiki edit access (carried over) 16:17 <ddstreet> carry over teward? 16:17 <teward> yep 16:17 <ddstreet> #action teward follow up to get all application process wiki/docs to explain the process to be able to edit wiki pages, for applicants who don't yet have wiki edit access (carried over) 16:17 * meetingology teward follow up to get all application process wiki/docs to explain the process to be able to edit wiki pages, for applicants who don't yet have wiki edit access (carried over) 16:17 <ddstreet> ok that's all the previous action items 16:17 <ddstreet> the only application is from me, for a ubuntu-support-uploaders team 16:18 <ddstreet> does the rest of the board want to consider that now or defer it to a meeting where more members are present? 16:19 <bdmurray> Are there people currently interested and ready to join that team? 16:19 <ddstreet> yes 16:19 <seb128> I think we can review it now, or at least start discussing it 16:20 <ddstreet> i actually am trying to hand this application off to a colleague, but haven't done that just yet 16:20 <ddstreet> ok let's do at least an initial discussions then 16:20 <ddstreet> #topic ubuntu-support-uploaders team application 16:21 <ddstreet> for clarification, this request is to create a new DMB-managed team that has upload rights for a new packageset 16:21 <bdmurray> will this team have the ability to approve their own members? 16:21 * bdmurray is reading https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers/TeamDelegation 16:21 <ddstreet> initially, the only team member would be me (assuming i haven't passed this off to someone before its approved), and the initial first package is sosreport 16:22 <ddstreet> bdmurray the DMB docs on this aren't exactly clear, at least to my reading, but no this would be a standard DMB-managed team that can't manage its own members; new members would need to apply to the DMB to join 16:23 <bdmurray> okay 16:23 <seb128> why do you feel like there is a need for a such team? 16:24 <seb128> and who do you envision to be interested to join it? 16:24 <ddstreet> so that the ACL for all the support team's packages is kept in a single packageset, so new members don't need to apply for PPU for a collection of packages 16:25 <ddstreet> re: joiners, members of Canonical support and/or community members who support Ubuntu 16:26 <ddstreet> i believe the setup would be very similar to the 'ubuntu-server' packageset, which is ACL'ed by the ~ubuntu-server-dev team 16:26 <ddstreet> so anyone on the Canonical server team i suspect is familiar with that and understands the usefulness of the setup 16:27 <bdmurray> For the server team I'd think its a stepping stone to core dev though. 16:27 <ddstreet> seb128 if i understand the ~ubuntu-desktop team correctly (which has ACL to upload into the ubuntu-desktop packageset), that is different as far as managing its own members 16:28 <ddstreet> bdmurray could be, though i don't think that's necessarily a goal for support members 16:28 <seb128> I see the interest of creating a set, providing the content of the set has value to some people who aren't going to apply to more 16:29 <seb128> I'm not really familiar with what the support team usually needs though, nor with sosreport 16:29 <ddstreet> sosreport, systemtap, crash, gdb, etc 16:30 <ddstreet> packageset additions would have to be approved by the DMB of course 16:30 <ddstreet> initially it's only sosreport 16:30 <seb128> right, I just foresee that to be of real use that set would need to include things like gdb and apport 16:30 <bdmurray> Given that any changes, of people or packages, would be managed by the DMB I'm fine with creating this team. 16:30 <seb128> which probably creates an higher contribution trust level than sosreport 16:31 <ddstreet> seb128 absolutely, i just want to defer adding those packages until we can be sure we actually want/need upload rights for them 16:31 <ddstreet> gdb, for example, generally hasn't really required us to upload fixes for it 16:31 <ddstreet> even though we use it extensively 16:31 <seb128> I feel like people doing those packages should probably aim for coredev 16:32 <ddstreet> that might change in the future if/when debuginfod is implemented for ubuntu 16:32 <seb128> doing uploads for* 16:32 <ddstreet> seb128 why do you feel that? support's goal is very different and very far removed from devel release work 16:32 <ddstreet> you may be viewing this from product engineering perspective 16:33 <seb128> it's more that I see some of those components as key ubuntu packages, preinstalled 16:33 <seb128> so I wouldn't hand upload right for those lightly 16:33 <seb128> and to win the trust needed you would probably need significant uploads to Ubuntu 16:33 <ddstreet> that seems more like a question of which specific packages should be in the packageset though, not if the packageset should be created in the first place? 16:34 <seb128> right 16:34 <ddstreet> if you haven't ever used sosreport, for example, do you think only coredevs should be able to upload that? 16:34 <seb128> but the path leads me to wonder if the packageset is going to be of real use 16:34 <seb128> no 16:34 <ddstreet> crash likewise is heavily used by support, but i doubt if that really needs a coredev to upload it 16:35 <seb128> right 16:35 <ddstreet> in any case, the initial application only involves sosreport 16:35 <seb128> I don't see an issue with creating that packageset 16:35 <ddstreet> any more q from anyone? 16:36 <ddstreet> since i'm applying for the packageset/team, i'll abstain from the voting 16:36 <ddstreet> i would like to get things rolling before the next meeting though, is it ok with everyone here if I ask for a vote (and any further discussion) to happen on the ML? 16:37 <seb128> that's ok with me 16:37 <bdmurray> that's fine with me 16:37 <ddstreet> #action ddstreet request discussion/voting on ubuntu-support-uploaders continue on ML 16:37 * meetingology ddstreet request discussion/voting on ubuntu-support-uploaders continue on ML 16:37 <ddstreet> ok thanks, i'll send an email to the list to follow up 16:38 <seb128> just for clarification, my questions were basically aimed at getting a feeling on the value of a such set, but I've not been in the DMB long enough to really understand if that's something we should give consideration to 16:38 <ddstreet> #topic open TB bugs 16:39 <ddstreet> seb128 yep i understand, and i think the DMB might benefit from more defined docs to help new members (and old members!) understand what exactly the process and policies are 16:39 <ddstreet> anyway, moving on 16:39 <ddstreet> #subtopic fnordahl PPU 16:39 <seb128> right, sorry for derailling thins :) 16:39 <seb128> things 16:39 <ddstreet> np :) 16:39 <ddstreet> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/1967795 16:39 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 1967795 in ubuntu-community "[TB/DMB] PPU for ~fnordahl" [Undecided, Fix Released] 16:39 <ddstreet> look like this is done 16:39 <ddstreet> #topic AOB 16:40 <ddstreet> #subtopic No single official source of DMB rules/procedures/policies, and KB wiki page is not complete or correct 16:40 <ddstreet> I don't know if we want to discuss this here and/or in the ML 16:40 <ddstreet> and this might just be my personal opinion 16:41 <seb128> ML or another time 16:41 <seb128> I need to wrap in a few minutes at least 16:41 <ddstreet> #subtopic Suggestion (from ddstreet) to discontinue use of private DMB IRC channel, and keep all official communication public 16:41 <ddstreet> this also is just a suggestion from me 16:41 <ddstreet> no need to discuss now, if everyone needs to wrap 16:41 <ddstreet> any comments before we end? 16:42 <ddstreet> or any other AOB topics? 16:42 <seb128> not from me 16:42 <ddstreet> ok let's wrap, thanks everyone o/ 16:42 <ddstreet> #endmeeting