16:04 <ddstreet> #startmeeting Ubuntu Backporters 16:04 <meetingology> Meeting started at 16:04:09 UTC. The chair is ddstreet. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology 16:04 <meetingology> Available commands: action, commands, idea, info, link, nick 16:04 <ddstreet> ok! let's go over previous action items...i think some did get done :) 16:04 <ddstreet> #topic Previous Action Items 16:04 <ddstreet> #subtopic ddstreet email ubuntu-devel list to announce re-opening of backports (carried over) 16:04 <ddstreet> sadly not yet :( i definitely will before next mtg :) 16:05 <ddstreet> #action ddstreet email ubuntu-devel list to announce re-opening of backports (carried over) 16:05 * meetingology ddstreet email ubuntu-devel list to announce re-opening of backports (carried over) 16:05 <ddstreet> #subtopic ddstreet open bug on u-d-t to update backportpackage script 16:05 <ddstreet> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-dev-tools/+bug/1959115 16:05 <ddstreet> done! 16:05 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 1959115 in ubuntu-dev-tools (Ubuntu) "update backportpackage script to behave according to new backport process" [High, New] 16:05 <mapreri> oh, reading 16:06 <ddstreet> well it's only a bug opened to track it 16:06 <ddstreet> so, the actual *work* isn't done 16:06 <mapreri> sorry, reading what you wrote here heh 16:06 <mapreri> I was distracted 16:06 <mapreri> yeah, I've seen that bug in my mailbox, cool, ta 16:06 <ddstreet> #subtopic ddstreet update wiki page clarifying requestors should subscribe ~ubuntu-backporters to BPO bugs 16:06 <ddstreet> mapreri did this one - thanks! :) 16:06 <ddstreet> #subtopic ddstreet update internal KB page with details about uploads going to 'New' instead of 'Unapproved' queue (carried over) 16:06 <mapreri> I actually forgot it was part of the meeting todo when I did lol 16:07 <ddstreet> yeah me too :) 16:07 <ddstreet> #action ddstreet update internal KB page with details about uploads going to 'New' instead of 'Unapproved' queue (carried over) 16:07 * meetingology ddstreet update internal KB page with details about uploads going to 'New' instead of 'Unapproved' queue (carried over) 16:07 <teward> i'm late sorry 16:07 <teward> got busy with a call to GoDaddy 16:07 <ddstreet> #subtopic ddstreet update tooling, requestbackport, backportpackage (carried over) 16:07 <ddstreet> need to carry that as well - and as before, if either of you want to do the tool updates please feel free 16:08 <mapreri> wait, the one about backportpackage, was that checked recetly? 16:08 <ddstreet> #action ddstreet update tooling, requestbackport, backportpackage (carried over) 16:08 * meetingology ddstreet update tooling, requestbackport, backportpackage (carried over) 16:08 <mapreri> i figured unit193's patch was enough, or..? 16:08 <ddstreet> i have not actually checked... 16:08 <ddstreet> does it match our new process? 16:08 <mapreri> well, in backportpackage it was mostly about adapting the changelog version, and that was done, so I *think* so 16:09 <mapreri> but should probably be extra-verified… 16:09 <ddstreet> ok yeah, let's leave the action in there at least until we double-check it works as we expect 16:10 <mapreri> also, perhaps the bug above should be changed to include also requestbackports, perhaps 16:10 <mapreri> if you ack I'll tweak the title and text 16:10 <ddstreet> yep ack 16:10 <ddstreet> thanks! 16:10 <ddstreet> #subtopic ddstreet fix-released bugs for accepted uploads 16:11 <ddstreet> that's done, for all bugs our team is subscribed to 16:11 <ddstreet> #subtopic ddstreet raise topic of rescheduling meeting on ML 16:11 <ddstreet> i did not send this email yet...should we just discuss now? or will it be easier to work it out on ML? 16:12 <mapreri> here would be quicker most likely. 16:12 <ddstreet> this day/time works ok for me for the first 30 min...i have an overlap at the bottom of the hour though 16:12 <ddstreet> mapreri teward is there a better day and/or time for you? 16:13 <teward> i don't mind adjusting the schedule times 16:13 <teward> my schedule is relatively flexible until chaos erupts at FT job 16:13 <mapreri> I'd have a preference if we could move this back 1 hour. In practice, follow DST, so in winter it would be at 17 UTC instead of 16 UTC (but not in summer) 16:14 <ddstreet> that would probably work for me, though i would have a mtg right before it so i may be late sometimes 16:14 <mapreri> → https://time.is/compare/1700_26_Jan_2022_in_UTC 16:14 <ddstreet> actually, my meeting usually ends on time, so 17:00 utc should work for me 16:14 <teward> that works for me 16:15 <mapreri> perhaps 17.15 or .30 so it's not a risk of overlaps? it's not our meeting takes up much 16:15 <mapreri> and what does your other meeting do wrt DST? 16:15 <ddstreet> mapreri if we track DST though, i believe USA and Europe have different DST start/end dates? 16:15 <ddstreet> my other meeting does track USA DST 16:15 <mapreri> yeah well, in that time normally either one side or the other just suck it for one round :3 16:16 <mapreri> (leaving the choice to whoever organizes) 16:16 <ddstreet> ok so are we all ok with 17:30 UTC, following USA DST? 16:17 <ddstreet> meaning, 12:30PM Eastern time 16:17 <mapreri> so next round would be https://time.is/compare/1730_09_Feb_2022_in_UTC ? 16:17 <ddstreet> yep 16:17 <teward> yup 16:17 <teward> works here 16:17 <mapreri> cool 16:17 <ddstreet> awesome! i'll action item that change 16:18 <mapreri> that said, the 9th of Feb I might be travelling during the whole afternoon so I might miss it (i'll confirm it later on though) 16:18 <mapreri> :/ 16:18 <ddstreet> #action ddstreet schedule next meeting at 12:30pm Eastern time, following USA DST schedule 16:18 * meetingology ddstreet schedule next meeting at 12:30pm Eastern time, following USA DST schedule 16:18 <mapreri> now, to just drop DST what do we do 16:18 <mapreri> re-aligning the world 16:18 <ddstreet> i really want everywhere to drop DST 16:18 <ddstreet> it's just too annoying 16:19 <ddstreet> annoying enough locally - but then having to work out the differences with contacts in other countries/TZs 16:19 <ddstreet> it hurts my head 16:19 <ddstreet> ok anyway, let's move on 16:19 <ddstreet> #subtopic mapreri propose text for membership process to add to KB page (carried over) 16:19 <mapreri> yeah, carried over 16:20 <ddstreet> #action mapreri propose text for membership process to add to KB page (carried over) 16:20 * meetingology mapreri propose text for membership process to add to KB page (carried over) 16:20 <ddstreet> #subtopic mapreri upload (more of) all the tools (carried over, in progress) 16:20 <ddstreet> #action mapreri upload (more of) all the tools (carried over, in progress) 16:20 * meetingology mapreri upload (more of) all the tools (carried over, in progress) 16:20 <ddstreet> i assume carry over for that and the next one 16:20 <ddstreet> #subtopic mapreri fix lintian to not complain about ~bpo suffix (https://bugs.debian.org/1001399) 16:20 <ubottu> Debian bug 1001399 in lintian "lintian: adjust backports-upload-has-incorrect-version-number for ubuntu" [Normal, Open] 16:20 <ddstreet> lintian isn't done yet is it? 16:20 <mapreri> mh is taht miissing still? 16:20 <mapreri> the one about uploading the tools 16:21 <mapreri> probably mh 16:21 <mapreri> there are a couple to update at the very least, so just leave it there sure 16:21 <mapreri> I'll get to it rsn 16:21 <ddstreet> ack 16:21 <ddstreet> yeah no hurry, we can leave it or drop it whenver 16:21 <mapreri> I think lechner pretty much ignored that bug, I'll poke him on irc later 16:21 <ddstreet> i suspect it'll be a never-ending process of keeping the tools updated 16:22 <mapreri> that's the point :) 16:22 <ddstreet> :) 16:22 <ddstreet> ok i'll action the lintian one too for now 16:22 <ddstreet> #action mapreri fix lintian to not complain about ~bpo suffix (https://bugs.debian.org/1001399) 16:22 * meetingology mapreri fix lintian to not complain about ~bpo suffix (https://bugs.debian.org/1001399) 16:22 <ubottu> Debian bug 1001399 in lintian "lintian: adjust backports-upload-has-incorrect-version-number for ubuntu" [Normal, Open] 16:23 <mapreri> ah, I see now that lechner did raise some points about it mh 16:23 <mapreri> I'll follow up 16:23 <ddstreet> we have unassigned actions too, i'll go thru them, if anyone wants to take any of them (or has completed any) please speak up, otherwise i'll just re-action them 16:23 <ddstreet> #subtopic (unassigned) define details on handling members/leads who are no longer participating (carried over) 16:24 <mapreri> that should likely come after the membership process above 16:24 <ddstreet> #action (unassigned) define details on handling members/leads who are no longer participating (carried over) 16:24 * meetingology (unassigned) define details on handling members/leads who are no longer participating (carried over) 16:24 <ddstreet> #subtopic (unassigned) define process/procedure for adding new members (carried over) 16:24 <mapreri> mh 16:24 <mapreri> how is that any different than "propose text for membership process to add to KB page" ? 16:25 <ddstreet> probably not really different 16:25 <mapreri> drop it? 16:25 <ddstreet> yeah, i think it came up from concerns about non-participating DMB members...but it definitely should just be part of the whole 'membership process' 16:25 <ddstreet> ack to dropping it 16:26 <mapreri> non-partecipating members is the one before, which is fine to leave separate so we make sure it's included 16:26 <ddstreet> ah right ok 16:26 <mapreri> this current one looks just a duplicate, however :) 16:26 <ddstreet> yeah definitely :) 16:26 <mapreri> pls nobody disappear until we have the text in place :3 16:27 <ddstreet> lol 16:27 <ddstreet> maybe we should remove this unassigned item and update the action you have to specify 'including non-participating' 16:27 <ddstreet> does seem like just a subset of the process action 16:27 <mapreri> as you'd like 16:28 <ddstreet> ack, yeah just administriva details - i'll update next mtg's agenda with them folded togehter 16:28 <ddstreet> #subtopic (unassigned) get DEB_VENDOR=ubuntu dch --bpo to DTRT pls (carried over) 16:28 <ddstreet> don't think this is done? 16:28 <mapreri> nope 16:28 <ddstreet> #action (unassigned) get DEB_VENDOR=ubuntu dch --bpo to DTRT pls (carried over) 16:28 * meetingology (unassigned) get DEB_VENDOR=ubuntu dch --bpo to DTRT pls (carried over) 16:28 <mapreri> and nobody likes dechange's code, so it'll likely stay there for a while :3 16:28 <ddstreet> #subtopic (unassigned) look at reviewer tooling such as 'queue' or other tools for reviewing/accepting/rejecting uploads, and closing the corresponding bugs 16:29 <ddstreet> i think this is an important one we should get assigned either now, or next mtg 16:29 <mapreri> looking at my own todo list, I'd rather not take this one myself, sorry 16:29 <ddstreet> ok 16:30 <ddstreet> teward you have time? if not we can carry it to next mtg 16:30 <ddstreet> assign it then 16:30 <ddstreet> ok let's just carry it 16:30 <ddstreet> #action (unassigned) look at reviewer tooling such as 'queue' or other tools for reviewing/accepting/rejecting uploads, and closing the corresponding bugs 16:30 * meetingology (unassigned) look at reviewer tooling such as 'queue' or other tools for reviewing/accepting/rejecting uploads, and closing the corresponding bugs 16:31 <ddstreet> #subtopic make sure wiki page includes requirement to add LP:# tag in backport changelog 16:31 <ddstreet> i haven't actually checked this 16:31 <mapreri> it's not there 16:31 <ddstreet> ok i'll take it, should be a quick change 16:31 <mapreri> ack 16:31 <ddstreet> #action ddstreet make sure wiki page includes requirement to add LP:# tag in backport changelog 16:31 * meetingology ddstreet make sure wiki page includes requirement to add LP:# tag in backport changelog 16:31 <ddstreet> ok that's all the action items! 16:31 <mapreri> alright 16:31 <ddstreet> let's move to AOB? 16:32 <mapreri> yes pls 16:32 <ddstreet> #topic AOB 16:32 <mapreri> Q: 16:32 <mapreri> do we want to enforce bugs also for trivial updates of already backported things? 16:33 <mapreri> Case that happened: a guy already had their bpo approved and already there. they uploaded an updated that I accidentally noticed the other day, and after looking at it, it just felt fine to approve it… but there wasn't a bug. tbh this felt mostly "fine" to me, but perhaps we want more tracking for some reason? 16:33 <ddstreet> i think we dont need them if it's trivial...but if the reviewer rejects, the rejection comment should probably ask for a bug opened to discuss it 16:33 <mapreri> s/an updated/an update/ 16:33 <mapreri> the rejection case sounds fair, yep 16:34 <teward> i got called to fix something sorry 16:34 <ddstreet> yeah basically i think we agree, ok to upload without a bug for simple backports, we can request a bug if we have any concerns, yeah? 16:34 <teward> ddstreet: for super simple i agree, for anything that requires any deviation from 'simple' then it needs a bug 16:34 <teward> my 2 cents 16:34 <mapreri> k. do we want to make this written, or just keep it as a tribal knowledge, so people don't get over-excited of skipping bugs? 16:34 <teward> i'd keep it as tribal knowledge 16:35 <teward> because we don't want to *encourage* skipping the processes 16:35 <teward> or make people think that 'what's simple to them is actually a simple case that doesn't need a bpo bug" 16:35 <ddstreet> well, that leaves it ambigous for reviewers as well 16:35 <ddstreet> i'd say we work out specific wording for an 'acceptable' no-bug backport? 16:35 <teward> agreed 16:36 <teward> and potentially detail some examples 16:36 <ddstreet> like 'if there are no code changes and the package is already in the target backport pocket' or something like that? 16:36 <teward> > if there are no code changes 16:36 <teward> that's where i start saying "Define code changes" 16:36 <mapreri> that sounds like a job for another #action to propose a fine wording. The term "trivial" is clearly too ambiguous too 16:36 <ddstreet> should we work out the specific wording on ML? I can start a thread...I just started my other mtg, so my attention is divided now :( 16:36 <teward> yes lets start on specific wording on the ML 16:36 <mapreri> yeah 16:36 <ddstreet> yep definitely 'trivial' can mean different things :) 16:37 <teward> i'm diverted to my FT job because somehting's on 'fire' 16:37 <ddstreet> #action ddstreet start thread on ML to clarify wording for no-bug-required backports 16:37 * meetingology ddstreet start thread on ML to clarify wording for no-bug-required backports 16:37 <mapreri> teward's job is clearly too hot, being on fire so often /o\ 16:37 <ddstreet> lol 16:37 <teward> lol 16:37 <ddstreet> yeah 16:37 <ddstreet> i hope you have a fireproof suit teward 16:37 <teward> mapreri: not my fault that the one team that has yielded their stuff to IT at my FT job are all using legacy/EOL crap 16:37 <teward> literally EOL crap that i'm having to use bits of my UA-I seats for temporarily >.> 16:37 <teward> (8.04 anyone?) 16:38 <teward> (that's the oldest i'm currently porting stuff to a 20.04 system for) 16:38 <mapreri> I knoe the fealing, having inherited a bunch of 14.04 myself... or so I though but at least it doesn't get to single-digit releases 16:38 <teward> ddstreet: i'm literally fireproof now heh 16:38 <teward> mapreri: two 12.04s, six 14.04s, one 8.04 16:38 <teward> but i digress 16:38 <mapreri> yep 16:39 <mapreri> alright, ddstreet: let's close up? :) 16:39 <teward> the old stuff is breaking so i keep having to move things into emergency migration mode 16:39 <teward> yep yep 16:39 <ddstreet> sounds good, last call for anything else? 16:39 <ddstreet> 5... 16:39 <ddstreet> 4... 16:39 <ddstreet> 3... 16:39 <ddstreet> 2... 16:39 <teward> give coffee? 16:39 <teward> :P 16:39 <ddstreet> 1... 16:39 <ddstreet> #endmeeting