== Meeting information == * #ubuntu-meeting: Developer Membership Board, 23 Mar at 19:02 — 19:35 UTC * Full logs at [[http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2020/ubuntu-meeting.2020-03-23-19.02.log.html]] == Meeting summary == === Review of previous action items === The discussion about "Review of previous action items" started at 19:03. * ''ACTION:'' tsimonq2 to better document what we expect applicants to know (carried over) * ''ACTION:'' ddstreet to define an initial list of 'flavor teams' * teward to handle permission granting and announcements for rcj: done === DMB elections for the expired 2 members === The discussion about "DMB elections for the expired 2 members" started at 19:14. * Elections are now complete === Outstanding mailing list requests to assign === The discussion about "Outstanding mailing list requests to assign" started at 19:14. * ''ACTION:'' teward to handle request "Adding lubuntu-update-notifier to the Lubuntu package set" * ''ACTION:'' teward to handle request "Requesting upload rights for ltsp" * ''ACTION:'' rafaeldtinoco to handle request "Expired MOTU membership" * ''ACTION:'' slashd to handle request "Please add new printing-related packages to my upload rights into main" === Select a chair for the next meeting (following alphabetical order of first names) === The discussion about "Select a chair for the next meeting (following alphabetical order of first names)" started at 19:23. * tsimonq2 will chair the next meeting === Any other business === The discussion about "Any other business" started at 19:24. * ''ACTION:'' ddstreet to write up a proposal for upload access expiry following some period of disuse == Vote results == == Action items, by person == * ddstreet * ddstreet to define an initial list of 'flavor teams' * ddstreet to write up a proposal for upload access expiry following some period of disuse * rafaeldtinoco * rafaeldtinoco to handle request "Expired MOTU membership" * slashd * slashd to handle request "Please add new printing-related packages to my upload rights into main" * teward * teward to handle request "Adding lubuntu-update-notifier to the Lubuntu package set" * teward to handle request "Requesting upload rights for ltsp" * tsimonq2 * tsimonq2 to better document what we expect applicants to know (carried over) == Done items == * (none) == People present (lines said) == * rbasak (91) * teward (28) * ddstreet (25) * rafaeldtinoco (14) * meetingology (10) * tsimonq2 (5) * cyphermox (3) * sil2100 (2) * slashd (1) == Full Log == 19:02 #startmeeting Developer Membership Board 19:02 Meeting started Mon Mar 23 19:02:55 2020 UTC. The chair is rbasak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. 19:02 19:02 Available commands: action commands idea info link nick 19:03 #topic Review of previous action items 19:03 tsimonq2 to better document what we expect applicants to know (carried over) 19:03 cyphermox to build report for expiry from dev teams (carried over) 19:03 rbasak to announce/implement : Expiry policy for flavor developer team membership (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2019-July/002451.html) 19:03 teward to handle permission granting and announcements for rcj 19:03 mine is done. 19:03 On my action, I will do that soon, now that the new DMB is settled. 19:04 Can someone take over cyphermox's previous action please? 19:04 o/ 19:04 (just now arrived) 19:04 It's related to dealing with requiring expiry of flavour developers without explicit renewal, as requested by the TB, I think? 19:04 Thanks teward! 19:04 I don't see tsimonq2 here. 19:05 Any volunteers for cyphermox's previous action? 19:05 is there any details on what exactly it involves? 19:05 Thanks to teward for blowing up notifications. :P 19:05 Hello. 19:06 ddstreet: if it is what I think it is, it's https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2019-July/002451.html 19:07 I think there has been some discussion in previous meetings - we'd need to look at IRC logs. 19:07 But as people have changed, I don't think anyone should be held to any previous thoughts we had on this. 19:07 Just that it remains pending for us to implement for the TB> 19:07 . 19:08 tsimonq2: any news on your action please, or should I carry it forward? 19:08 so, that email sounds like all that is being asked is to enable team expiry for the per-flavor teams, is that your understanding also? the action item is talking about 'build report' 19:09 ddstreet: I remember a question (probably from me) on what exactly a "flavor team" is - for example is cloud or server included? 19:09 rbasak: Please do. 19:09 We need a list of them. But otherwise, yes. 19:09 (Carry it forward, that is.) 19:09 #action tsimonq2 to better document what we expect applicants to know (carried over) 19:09 * meetingology tsimonq2 to better document what we expect applicants to know (carried over) 19:09 rbasak agreed, is that something the TB shoudl answer or is that something for us to define? 19:09 ddstreet: IMHO, the TB wouldn't mind if we just defined it 19:10 I don't remember how that turned into an action for a report 19:10 I'd have to look at old IRC logs 19:10 But IMHO, forget that, let's just get it done if we can find a volunteer. 19:10 ok so we should probably have action item 1) define list of 'flavor teams' and 2) implement membership expiry for those teams 19:10 ddstreet: are you volunteering? :) 19:11 o/ 19:11 so my action was to enable expiry, that's all 19:11 cyphermox o/ hello! 19:11 probably to notify everyone first, because it'll need people to help with setting the expiry when they add people for the delegated teams 19:11 cyphermox did you have a list of specific teams to enable expiry for? 19:12 o/ 19:12 full dmb house! \o/ party time 19:13 ddstreet: *turns on the rave lights and music* :P 19:13 is there any homework left for me ? 19:13 or was it all taken ? 19:13 rbasak i can at least take the action item to define an initial list of 'flavor teams' for review next dmb 19:13 ddstreet: thank you! 19:13 unless rafaeldtinoco wants to take it :) 19:13 no, its yours 19:13 #action ddstreet to define an initial list of 'flavor teams' 19:13 * meetingology ddstreet to define an initial list of 'flavor teams' 19:14 rbasak to announce/implement : Expiry policy for flavor developer team membership (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2019-July/002451.html) (carried over) 19:14 #info teward to handle permission granting and announcements for rcj: done 19:14 #topic DMB elections for the expired 2 members 19:14 #info Elections are now complete 19:14 No applications, so 19:14 #topic Outstanding mailing list requests to assign 19:15 Looks like these go back quite a way 19:16 Adding lubuntu-update-notifier to the Lubuntu package set 19:16 From 8 Jan 19:16 Expired MOTU membership 19:16 From 17 Feb 19:16 Please add new printing-related packages to my upload rights into main 19:16 From 20 Feb 19:16 Requesting upload rights for ltsp 19:16 From 18 Mar 19:16 That's all the outstanding requests I can see. 19:17 Can I suggest that we nominate one DMB member to look into each, and ask if you need help? 19:17 re: lubuntu-update-notifier I'll take that one, and make sure that gets added to teh packageset - this wwas discussed separately with the Lubuntu Team in the past that this is a reasonable request (at least from me as a coredev) 19:17 i'll take that one 19:17 Thanks 19:17 re: ltsp request, that needs a separate PPU upload IMO 19:17 the request expands BEYOND LTSP when reading it further 19:17 For each one, determine if you can act alone, or if you need the DMB to vote, and if the latter, bring that up next meeting? 19:17 i already dug in LTSP so i'll take that one 19:17 as well 19:18 #action teward to handle request "Adding lubuntu-update-notifier to the Lubuntu package set" 19:18 * meetingology teward to handle request "Adding lubuntu-update-notifier to the Lubuntu package set" 19:18 #action teward to handle request "Requesting upload rights for ltsp" 19:18 * meetingology teward to handle request "Requesting upload rights for ltsp" 19:18 Volunteers for the other two please? 19:18 let me have one 19:18 i have an opinion re: the printing rights request 19:18 but i won't take it :p 19:18 rafaeldtinoco: two for the taking :) 19:19 rafaeldtinoco: any preference? :) 19:19 nope 19:19 #action rafaeldtinoco to handle request "Expired MOTU membership" 19:19 * meetingology rafaeldtinoco to handle request "Expired MOTU membership" 19:19 One more volunteer for the printing request please. 19:19 Does anyone have no action? 19:20 slashd maybe please? 19:20 rbasak: sure 19:20 Thanks! 19:20 #action slashd to handle request "Please add new printing-related packages to my upload rights into main" 19:20 * meetingology slashd to handle request "Please add new printing-related packages to my upload rights into main" 19:21 That's all of them I think. 19:21 Can anyone see anything I've missed? 19:21 FWIW, this is an unusually large number of outstanding requests. Usually there's zero or one. 19:21 i have a few things that as a member of the Studio dev team i want to get into the studio packagesets 19:21 I guess it's just the backlog during the elction etc. 19:22 but that can wait as they have me (as coredev sponsoring contact) on their team so I can handle those uploads for them 19:22 and i really want Eickmeyer (whos PoC on the Studio Dev Team) to request those 19:22 OK 19:22 so just something to keep in mind but no action item needed for now 19:22 if we've moved on to AOB I have one topic to discuss 19:22 The flavor packagesets are "fun". 19:22 They're automatically generated from a script. 19:22 yes they are rbasak xD 19:22 So you can't just add something - you have to modify the script, etc. 19:23 (or, in theory, rerunning the script should suffice, but I'm not sure it's ever been that simple) 19:23 #topic Select a chair for the next meeting (following alphabetical order of first names) 19:23 We never did this in the past because attendance was so unreliable. Should we start this now? 19:24 Any objections? 19:24 no objs 19:24 sounds good to me 19:24 If not, tsimonq2 can start by chairing the next meeting as someone has already put together the list and he's first. 19:24 #info tsimonq2 will chair the next meeting 19:24 #topic Any other business 19:24 ddstreet: you're up! 19:25 I wanted to bring up the topic of general team expirations 19:25 Sure, I can chair. :P 19:25 tsimonq2: thanks! 19:25 i know MOTU and coredev, etc. have expirations enabled, but my thought was perhaps we should 'retire' people from coredev/motu/etc after X years of no uploads 19:26 i suspect even people who have no intention of ever uploading again will still click the 'renew' button once every few years when their membership is reaching expiration 19:26 bringing the topic up for thoughts from the dmb 19:26 I'm curious to know what other similar projects do. 19:27 I'm generally for the idea, but I'd like to see a report showing who has rights and who has exercised them 19:27 including PPU rights. 19:27 rbasak similar projects meaning like freedesktop or fedora or github, etc? 19:27 Also, we sometimes get people whose memberships have expired ask for renewal. What do you propose to do if we get such a request after someone gets removed for having no uploads? 19:28 I think we need specifically to look at MOTU and CoreDev and specialized groups separately 19:28 ddstreet: like freedesktop and fedora. Community projects with a large number of "committers". 19:28 if they have a Launchpad group and we expire them from upload rights they aslo need to be removed / deactivated from the team at the same time 19:28 that's an excellent point to consider, i personally would suggest anyone who is expired due to no uploads should re-apply, but it should be a policy (if we do 'retire' people) 19:28 teward i like the report idea, that would be good info to have 19:29 i'm in favor of re-apply idea if we ever start to demote devs 19:29 One thing that has happened recently is some people accidentally expire ("missed the email") so IIRC what we've done that is be fairly lax with readding them. 19:29 rbasak: we could have an acceptable period 19:29 rbasak: With some exceptions, I think we should be more strict on enforcement 19:29 By "lax" I mean just re-add them if it's only been a month or so 19:29 +1 on lax 19:29 or have a 'grace' period where they can be readded BUT have to have evidence of actually using those permissions 19:29 agreed +1 19:30 yep, maybe if we enable a 'no upload retirement' policy, we could just disable the 'renew' emails 19:30 but we would need a new email sent, saying 'you need to upload' instead of just 'you need to click this button' to stay in the group 19:30 Unfortunately to implement this I think we'd have to write some scripting ourselves 19:30 indeed 19:30 yep 19:30 ok probably no action to take now, but at least we're thinking about it 19:31 The Launchpad membership expiry doesn't stretch far enough for this proposal. To be clear: that's not intended to mean I'm opposed to this. 19:31 OK. Thank you for bringing this up. 19:31 I suggest that to make more progress someone writes a concrete proposal to the ML? 19:31 devel-permissions@ is probably the appropriate venue. 19:31 Any other AOB? 19:31 +1 on proposal, with examples from other communities 19:32 i liked the examples idea 19:32 so we dont reinvent the wheel 19:32 +1 to sending to the ML (with a CC to the developer membership board list as well so it's alos listed htere) 19:32 agreed from me also, as i brought it up i'll first see if i can get a report together as teward suggested 19:33 and then email the list once the report is ready 19:33 rbasak: let's at least assign an action item to ddstreet for now re: getting together a report of: 19:33 ddstreet: i'd write this as a small RFC so we grow it through the mail thread 19:33 ddstreet: do you want that as an action? 19:33 (1) who currently has upload rights, and (2) who has used them or not in the past year+ 19:33 my two cents 19:33 sure yep i'll take the action 19:34 #action ddstreet to write up a proposal for upload access expiry following some period of disuse 19:34 * meetingology ddstreet to write up a proposal for upload access expiry following some period of disuse 19:34 Anything further to discuss? 19:35 I guess we're done then. 19:35 Thanks all! 19:35 #endmeeting Generated by MeetBot 0.1.5 (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology)