19:02 <rbasak> #startmeeting Developer Membership Board 19:02 <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 23 19:02:55 2020 UTC. The chair is rbasak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. 19:02 <meetingology> 19:02 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick 19:03 <rbasak> #topic Review of previous action items 19:03 <rbasak> tsimonq2 to better document what we expect applicants to know (carried over) 19:03 <rbasak> cyphermox to build report for expiry from dev teams (carried over) 19:03 <rbasak> rbasak to announce/implement : Expiry policy for flavor developer team membership (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2019-July/002451.html) 19:03 <rbasak> teward to handle permission granting and announcements for rcj 19:03 <teward> mine is done. 19:03 <rbasak> On my action, I will do that soon, now that the new DMB is settled. 19:04 <rbasak> Can someone take over cyphermox's previous action please? 19:04 <sil2100> o/ 19:04 <sil2100> (just now arrived) 19:04 <rbasak> It's related to dealing with requiring expiry of flavour developers without explicit renewal, as requested by the TB, I think? 19:04 <rbasak> Thanks teward! 19:04 <rbasak> I don't see tsimonq2 here. 19:05 <rbasak> Any volunteers for cyphermox's previous action? 19:05 <ddstreet> is there any details on what exactly it involves? 19:05 <tsimonq2> Thanks to teward for blowing up notifications. :P 19:05 <tsimonq2> Hello. 19:06 <rbasak> ddstreet: if it is what I think it is, it's https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2019-July/002451.html 19:07 <rbasak> I think there has been some discussion in previous meetings - we'd need to look at IRC logs. 19:07 <rbasak> But as people have changed, I don't think anyone should be held to any previous thoughts we had on this. 19:07 <rbasak> Just that it remains pending for us to implement for the TB> 19:07 <rbasak> . 19:08 <rbasak> tsimonq2: any news on your action please, or should I carry it forward? 19:08 <ddstreet> so, that email sounds like all that is being asked is to enable team expiry for the per-flavor teams, is that your understanding also? the action item is talking about 'build report' 19:09 <rbasak> ddstreet: I remember a question (probably from me) on what exactly a "flavor team" is - for example is cloud or server included? 19:09 <tsimonq2> rbasak: Please do. 19:09 <rbasak> We need a list of them. But otherwise, yes. 19:09 <tsimonq2> (Carry it forward, that is.) 19:09 <rbasak> #action tsimonq2 to better document what we expect applicants to know (carried over) 19:09 * meetingology tsimonq2 to better document what we expect applicants to know (carried over) 19:09 <ddstreet> rbasak agreed, is that something the TB shoudl answer or is that something for us to define? 19:09 <rbasak> ddstreet: IMHO, the TB wouldn't mind if we just defined it 19:10 <rbasak> I don't remember how that turned into an action for a report 19:10 <rbasak> I'd have to look at old IRC logs 19:10 <rbasak> But IMHO, forget that, let's just get it done if we can find a volunteer. 19:10 <ddstreet> ok so we should probably have action item 1) define list of 'flavor teams' and 2) implement membership expiry for those teams 19:10 <rbasak> ddstreet: are you volunteering? :) 19:11 <cyphermox> o/ 19:11 <cyphermox> so my action was to enable expiry, that's all 19:11 <ddstreet> cyphermox o/ hello! 19:11 <cyphermox> probably to notify everyone first, because it'll need people to help with setting the expiry when they add people for the delegated teams 19:11 <ddstreet> cyphermox did you have a list of specific teams to enable expiry for? 19:12 <rafaeldtinoco> o/ 19:12 <ddstreet> full dmb house! \o/ party time 19:13 <teward> ddstreet: *turns on the rave lights and music* :P 19:13 <rafaeldtinoco> is there any homework left for me ? 19:13 <rafaeldtinoco> or was it all taken ? 19:13 <ddstreet> rbasak i can at least take the action item to define an initial list of 'flavor teams' for review next dmb 19:13 <rbasak> ddstreet: thank you! 19:13 <ddstreet> unless rafaeldtinoco wants to take it :) 19:13 <rafaeldtinoco> no, its yours 19:13 <rbasak> #action ddstreet to define an initial list of 'flavor teams' 19:13 * meetingology ddstreet to define an initial list of 'flavor teams' 19:14 <rbasak> rbasak to announce/implement : Expiry policy for flavor developer team membership (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2019-July/002451.html) (carried over) 19:14 <rbasak> #info teward to handle permission granting and announcements for rcj: done 19:14 <rbasak> #topic DMB elections for the expired 2 members 19:14 <rbasak> #info Elections are now complete 19:14 <rbasak> No applications, so 19:14 <rbasak> #topic Outstanding mailing list requests to assign 19:15 <rbasak> Looks like these go back quite a way 19:16 <rbasak> Adding lubuntu-update-notifier to the Lubuntu package set 19:16 <rbasak> From 8 Jan 19:16 <rbasak> Expired MOTU membership 19:16 <rbasak> From 17 Feb 19:16 <rbasak> Please add new printing-related packages to my upload rights into main 19:16 <rbasak> From 20 Feb 19:16 <rbasak> Requesting upload rights for ltsp 19:16 <rbasak> From 18 Mar 19:16 <rbasak> That's all the outstanding requests I can see. 19:17 <rbasak> Can I suggest that we nominate one DMB member to look into each, and ask if you need help? 19:17 <teward> re: lubuntu-update-notifier I'll take that one, and make sure that gets added to teh packageset - this wwas discussed separately with the Lubuntu Team in the past that this is a reasonable request (at least from me as a coredev) 19:17 <teward> i'll take that one 19:17 <rbasak> Thanks 19:17 <teward> re: ltsp request, that needs a separate PPU upload IMO 19:17 <teward> the request expands BEYOND LTSP when reading it further 19:17 <rbasak> For each one, determine if you can act alone, or if you need the DMB to vote, and if the latter, bring that up next meeting? 19:17 <teward> i already dug in LTSP so i'll take that one 19:17 <teward> as well 19:18 <rbasak> #action teward to handle request "Adding lubuntu-update-notifier to the Lubuntu package set" 19:18 * meetingology teward to handle request "Adding lubuntu-update-notifier to the Lubuntu package set" 19:18 <rbasak> #action teward to handle request "Requesting upload rights for ltsp" 19:18 * meetingology teward to handle request "Requesting upload rights for ltsp" 19:18 <rbasak> Volunteers for the other two please? 19:18 <rafaeldtinoco> let me have one 19:18 <teward> i have an opinion re: the printing rights request 19:18 <teward> but i won't take it :p 19:18 <teward> rafaeldtinoco: two for the taking :) 19:19 <rbasak> rafaeldtinoco: any preference? :) 19:19 <rafaeldtinoco> nope 19:19 <rbasak> #action rafaeldtinoco to handle request "Expired MOTU membership" 19:19 * meetingology rafaeldtinoco to handle request "Expired MOTU membership" 19:19 <rbasak> One more volunteer for the printing request please. 19:19 <rbasak> Does anyone have no action? 19:20 <rbasak> slashd maybe please? 19:20 <slashd> rbasak: sure 19:20 <rbasak> Thanks! 19:20 <rbasak> #action slashd to handle request "Please add new printing-related packages to my upload rights into main" 19:20 * meetingology slashd to handle request "Please add new printing-related packages to my upload rights into main" 19:21 <rbasak> That's all of them I think. 19:21 <rbasak> Can anyone see anything I've missed? 19:21 <rbasak> FWIW, this is an unusually large number of outstanding requests. Usually there's zero or one. 19:21 <teward> i have a few things that as a member of the Studio dev team i want to get into the studio packagesets 19:21 <rbasak> I guess it's just the backlog during the elction etc. 19:22 <teward> but that can wait as they have me (as coredev sponsoring contact) on their team so I can handle those uploads for them 19:22 <teward> and i really want Eickmeyer (whos PoC on the Studio Dev Team) to request those 19:22 <rbasak> OK 19:22 <teward> so just something to keep in mind but no action item needed for now 19:22 <ddstreet> if we've moved on to AOB I have one topic to discuss 19:22 <rbasak> The flavor packagesets are "fun". 19:22 <rbasak> They're automatically generated from a script. 19:22 <teward> yes they are rbasak xD 19:22 <rbasak> So you can't just add something - you have to modify the script, etc. 19:23 <rbasak> (or, in theory, rerunning the script should suffice, but I'm not sure it's ever been that simple) 19:23 <rbasak> #topic Select a chair for the next meeting (following alphabetical order of first names) 19:23 <rbasak> We never did this in the past because attendance was so unreliable. Should we start this now? 19:24 <rbasak> Any objections? 19:24 <rafaeldtinoco> no objs 19:24 <ddstreet> sounds good to me 19:24 <rbasak> If not, tsimonq2 can start by chairing the next meeting as someone has already put together the list and he's first. 19:24 <rbasak> #info tsimonq2 will chair the next meeting 19:24 <rbasak> #topic Any other business 19:24 <rbasak> ddstreet: you're up! 19:25 <ddstreet> I wanted to bring up the topic of general team expirations 19:25 <tsimonq2> Sure, I can chair. :P 19:25 <rbasak> tsimonq2: thanks! 19:25 <ddstreet> i know MOTU and coredev, etc. have expirations enabled, but my thought was perhaps we should 'retire' people from coredev/motu/etc after X years of no uploads 19:26 <ddstreet> i suspect even people who have no intention of ever uploading again will still click the 'renew' button once every few years when their membership is reaching expiration 19:26 <ddstreet> bringing the topic up for thoughts from the dmb 19:26 <rbasak> I'm curious to know what other similar projects do. 19:27 <teward> I'm generally for the idea, but I'd like to see a report showing who has rights and who has exercised them 19:27 <teward> including PPU rights. 19:27 <ddstreet> rbasak similar projects meaning like freedesktop or fedora or github, etc? 19:27 <rbasak> Also, we sometimes get people whose memberships have expired ask for renewal. What do you propose to do if we get such a request after someone gets removed for having no uploads? 19:28 <teward> I think we need specifically to look at MOTU and CoreDev and specialized groups separately 19:28 <rbasak> ddstreet: like freedesktop and fedora. Community projects with a large number of "committers". 19:28 <teward> if they have a Launchpad group and we expire them from upload rights they aslo need to be removed / deactivated from the team at the same time 19:28 <ddstreet> that's an excellent point to consider, i personally would suggest anyone who is expired due to no uploads should re-apply, but it should be a policy (if we do 'retire' people) 19:28 <ddstreet> teward i like the report idea, that would be good info to have 19:29 <rafaeldtinoco> i'm in favor of re-apply idea if we ever start to demote devs 19:29 <rbasak> One thing that has happened recently is some people accidentally expire ("missed the email") so IIRC what we've done that is be fairly lax with readding them. 19:29 <rafaeldtinoco> rbasak: we could have an acceptable period 19:29 <teward> rbasak: With some exceptions, I think we should be more strict on enforcement 19:29 <rbasak> By "lax" I mean just re-add them if it's only been a month or so 19:29 <rafaeldtinoco> +1 on lax 19:29 <teward> or have a 'grace' period where they can be readded BUT have to have evidence of actually using those permissions 19:29 <teward> agreed +1 19:30 <ddstreet> yep, maybe if we enable a 'no upload retirement' policy, we could just disable the 'renew' emails 19:30 <ddstreet> but we would need a new email sent, saying 'you need to upload' instead of just 'you need to click this button' to stay in the group 19:30 <rbasak> Unfortunately to implement this I think we'd have to write some scripting ourselves 19:30 <teward> indeed 19:30 <ddstreet> yep 19:30 <ddstreet> ok probably no action to take now, but at least we're thinking about it 19:31 <rbasak> The Launchpad membership expiry doesn't stretch far enough for this proposal. To be clear: that's not intended to mean I'm opposed to this. 19:31 <rbasak> OK. Thank you for bringing this up. 19:31 <rbasak> I suggest that to make more progress someone writes a concrete proposal to the ML? 19:31 <rbasak> devel-permissions@ is probably the appropriate venue. 19:31 <rbasak> Any other AOB? 19:31 <rafaeldtinoco> +1 on proposal, with examples from other communities 19:32 <rafaeldtinoco> i liked the examples idea 19:32 <rafaeldtinoco> so we dont reinvent the wheel 19:32 <teward> +1 to sending to the ML (with a CC to the developer membership board list as well so it's alos listed htere) 19:32 <ddstreet> agreed from me also, as i brought it up i'll first see if i can get a report together as teward suggested 19:33 <ddstreet> and then email the list once the report is ready 19:33 <teward> rbasak: let's at least assign an action item to ddstreet for now re: getting together a report of: 19:33 <rafaeldtinoco> ddstreet: i'd write this as a small RFC so we grow it through the mail thread 19:33 <rbasak> ddstreet: do you want that as an action? 19:33 <teward> (1) who currently has upload rights, and (2) who has used them or not in the past year+ 19:33 <teward> my two cents 19:33 <ddstreet> sure yep i'll take the action 19:34 <rbasak> #action ddstreet to write up a proposal for upload access expiry following some period of disuse 19:34 * meetingology ddstreet to write up a proposal for upload access expiry following some period of disuse 19:34 <rbasak> Anything further to discuss? 19:35 <rbasak> I guess we're done then. 19:35 <rbasak> Thanks all! 19:35 <rbasak> #endmeeting