17:04 #startmeeting Community Council meeting, 20180315 17:04 Meeting started Thu Mar 15 17:04:04 2018 UTC. The chair is elacheche. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. 17:04 17:04 Available commands: action commands idea info link nick 17:05 We start the meeting, in the meanwhile I am sure the marcoceppi and ahoneybun and jose will show up :) 17:05 #topic report since last meeting 17:05 Do we have any news about things we discussted last time? 17:06 I'm around 17:06 Hey ahoneybun 17:06 I didn't finish my task. 17:06 Sorry, lots of things moving here. 17:07 But I should be home for next meeting, so I'll take the same action item again, review the CC meetig pages 17:07 s/meeting/wiki 17:08 elopio-webchat: IS that the actual wiki or wiki posts on the Hub? 17:08 flexiondotorg: The actual wiki 17:09 I didn't advanced on defining what we use each ressource for, I will send a mail about that so you can help me instead of waiting for having some spare time to talk to you via IRC 17:09 flexiondotorg: elacheche made a list of pages on the wiki. We need to review them, and see what can be moved, droped, updated... 17:09 Understood. Was just confirming. 17:10 #action elacheche will email the list of ressources to discuss/debate the need of each via the ML 17:10 * meetingology elacheche will email the list of ressources to discuss/debate the need of each via the ML 17:11 oh, the other thing was that I sent an email to the list, mentioning our decision from the last meeting about missing this meeting without an excuse 17:11 #action elopio still reviewing the wiki pages 17:11 * meetingology elopio still reviewing the wiki pages 17:11 we start counting today, looking at the summary posts. 17:11 elopio-webchat I confirm we got that :) I hope that everyone noticed that while readingthe email 17:12 I think that not attending, and not even reading the summaries makes it twice as bad :D 17:13 Do we have other news? 17:13 not here 17:14 OK, should we move then? 17:14 Yep 17:15 * elacheche like to add 2 more subjects later, one about taking decisions (as example the case of the Ubuntu Europe Federation thread), and the other about the news team 17:16 I just shar ed that now because I know I will forget it later.. 17:16 ok 17:16 Next topic 17:16 #topic Bold bug triaging - issues with contacting a LP user Community Council 17:17 I sent an email to him/her last week 17:17 Let's start by sharing the HUB thread again → https://community.ubuntu.com/t/bold-bug-triaging-issues-with-contacting-a-lp-user/4334 17:17 dino99 right? 17:17 one week without a reply is more than enough time. So next action for me will be to contact the launchpad team to deactivate the account. 17:17 And Mark had this to say: "Yes, I think we can be firm about an expectation of engagement if folks are active." 17:17 they recently just did another round of their thing 17:17 wxl: yes 17:18 yes. It could be that the email is wrong, or anything. The idea is that deactivating the account should prompt them to talk to us, and then we figure out if it was a misunderstanding or a CoC violation. 17:18 YOu can't properly participate on LP with broken email. 17:18 So deactivating for that alone is reasonable. 17:18 +1 17:18 if they just disappear, then the problem is solved too. If they make another acccount and continue, then it's a clear violations and we follow that other path. 17:19 Who'll contact the LP team? 17:19 i think we should just send this to canonical sysadmin 17:19 no? 17:19 hmm 17:19 Hey jose 17:19 acting as the community council, they should be able to just follow suit 17:20 LP Owner can deactivate the team 17:20 It depends on who's administrating the LP.. a LP team or just canonicals sysadmins 17:20 however, they need proof of the discussion/matter in order to do that 17:20 there is a launchpad owner team in launchpad who has the current launchpad admin 17:20 and we can send them an email if it's a private matter 17:20 great then, jose I think the HUB link and the log of this current session can be that proof 17:21 I'll take care of finding the right person, contacting them with links, and follow up 17:21 and documenting on the hub for future reference. 17:21 Sorry elopio-webchat I don't agree with that.. 17:21 actually, gimme a sec and I'll give you a link to the team 17:21 elacheche: tell me more :) 17:22 I think someone else should do the task, we should share the tasks, you already take care of other tasks 17:22 ah, I was taking it because I started 17:22 I'm happy to do it, I'm already halfway there anyways 17:22 I have no particular interest in doing it myself. Anybody, feel free to take it. 17:23 Great! elopio-webchat share what you have with jose :) I don't want any of use to have too much tasks, because we can't blame hime later if there is no progress on multiple tasks :) 17:23 Looks like jose has grabbed that action :-) 17:24 I have contacted them with no reply. That's what I have. The discussion is on the hub, and the summary of this meeting. 17:24 yep, will share progress when I have it! 17:24 jose: just please make sure to make a post on the hub explaining how to deactivate a user. 17:24 #action jose will find the good person to deactivate the LP user account, this log can be the proof with the HUB URL 17:24 * meetingology jose will find the good person to deactivate the LP user account, this log can be the proof with the HUB URL 17:24 And Marks reply on the ML. 17:24 flexiondotorg: That was a surprise x) 17:25 Do you have any other comments about this topic or should we move to the next one ? 17:25 Move on. 17:25 #topic Review, triage, and fix Code of Conduct bugs - @wxl 17:27 ping wxl 17:27 oh hey sorry :) 17:27 No problem, I know you're @work 17:28 so during GCI i made a task to have students sign and file bugs on the CoC 17:28 it was actually very successful, even with the fact that many of them were using GPG for the very first time 17:28 i could probably fix the directions a bit to make it a little bit easier, but that's not my point for this topic 17:28 the topic is we now have a lot of bugs and we should go through them and see where we can improve the CoC 17:29 that's not going to be a five minute thing, i don't think 17:29 so i was going to suggest perhaps we schedule a time to get together expressly for that purpose 17:29 thoughts? 17:29 wxl: I am sorry, can you please explain more the task? Or share a bug link 17:29 I don't think all the bugs need to be actioned. 17:30 not actioned, but at least triaged, I'd say 17:30 So just need review and explaination as to why we aren't incorporating the changes. 17:30 how many bugs? 17:30 elacheche: the task is irrelevant. what came out of it-- bugs against the CoC-- is what we need to worry about 17:30 we currently have 23 new bugs 17:31 i think some of them are actually valid, so saying we're not going to incorporate the change may not be appropriate for all of them 17:31 ok 17:32 I think we can meet again and triage those together as jose & wxl suggested 17:32 so do we want to schedule a time now to do that? 17:33 I'd prefer a weekend, but not sure if you can do that 17:33 I'm travelling around the US right now for work, so my schedule is a bit hectic 17:33 i'm fine with that 17:33 Emm.. What about starting a ML thrread about this.. So we don't have to be all online in the same time and we can discuss those 17:34 i don't love that idea as it will take us much longer 17:35 maybe we can meet up with those who are available, and then send a summary to the ML for commenting, for those who weren't available? 17:36 that seems reasonable. or we could just all take it upon ourselves to have the discussion within the bug reports themselves 17:36 wxl: OK, as you lead the task you pick the time and others will try to join you (remeber we have different TZs ;-) ) 17:36 yes, except hub instead of mailing list please. 17:37 if we're just going to make it a non-realtime public chat, let's just do it on the bug reports themselves 17:37 which means that everyone has an action to go get on that 17:38 OK wxl that seems the good choice 17:38 +1 17:38 agree 17:38 there ya go then :) 17:38 wxl: can you share the url please? 17:38 So, is the action: Triage CoC bugs and discuss them on LP? 17:39 yep 17:39 elopio-webchat: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-codeofconduct 17:39 thanks 17:39 #action ALL CC will Triage CoC bugs and discuss them on LP? → https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-codeofconduct 17:39 * meetingology ALL CC will Triage CoC bugs and discuss them on LP? → https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-codeofconduct 17:40 Any other thoughts? 17:40 We still have 20 min before ending the meeting 17:40 We move on then.. 17:41 #topic Clearly define governance seats, terms, and quorum - @wxl 17:41 I think you're talking about the UMB quorum? 17:41 i mean for all the governance boards, but especially the umb and lc which have faced issues over time of understanding what's what 17:42 robert's rules don't really help in re: quorum as it's basically like "the maximum number of people you'd expect might show up given the weather" or something ridiculous like that :) 17:42 is we have x number of seats, we should be able to define y number of people to make quorum 17:42 but that's the other problem: we don't even knwo what x number of seats is sometimes :) 17:43 Afaik, the quorum was always 4 members, I remember that I read it somewhere + some old UMB announced it during meetings when I was joining the meetings before I become a Ubuntu Member, later when I joined the UMB we used that too 17:43 I may dig the old wikis again to try to find it (reading some diffs can helo I guess) 17:44 so that would be 4/10 which is not a majority 17:44 i've never seen any of that documented anywhere for anyone 17:44 hmm. in general, I'd say quorum for meetings should be 1/2, and for voting 2/3, but that's just me 17:45 wxl: Let's don't forget that not all the 10 members should be present at the same timen that's why the UMB have multiple slots.. not only for candidates, but for board members too 17:45 so you're saying a majority then, jose? 17:45 yes. but now, the UMB is a special case... 17:45 elacheche: true. we'd need to define it based on that, i.e. there would have to be a minimum number of folks at each slot 17:45 I remember beforehand there used to be two UMB teams 17:45 s/at/signed up for/ 17:46 one for the 10 and another for the 22 UMBs. then, both teams in a general UMB team for lp admin purposes 17:46 also i'll add if "4" is the magic number then that means that most of the LC needs to be there: 4/5 17:47 and for us that's not a majority either: 4/8 17:47 wxl: True, when I signed up for the UMB seat I signed up for all the slots, same for multiple others, because we are near the UTC TZ 17:48 that might be a good reason to suggest more than one team 17:48 let's imagine the situation where you leave-- that means both boards are affected, but we might get a replacement that can only do one 17:48 so then we need to add another person 17:49 i think it would be better to have two teams but either team can participate in the other one 17:49 Just a side note.. I think that I read in one of the meetings (yeeaaaaaaaaaaaars ago, I don't know what/when) that CC members can help if the quorum is not enough, like if the UBM need 1 more person, and there is a CC around he can vote 17:49 I am note sure if that's documented somewhere or not too 17:49 right. and i've seen that happen... and i've seen it not work because they're not around 17:50 my understanding of it was that the cc as a whole was entitled to one vote 17:50 so if you were down 2, even with two cc members, that wouldn't get you there 17:50 but again, this all needs to be defined and most importantly, documented 17:50 OK, we should document all that somewhere for future CC 17:50 it sounds to me that the first step is to dig out the current rules. Then, figure out if we need to add rules or modify the process entirely. 17:51 That ^ 17:51 Which I was just hunting for. 17:51 i've never seen the rules but elacheche seems to think he has 17:51 so maybe next action, elacheche goes hunting? 17:52 wxl: I think I saw them in here during some meetings before I become a Ubuntu member, and saw some on the wiki.. That's why digging the wikis will be a good start 17:52 OK, I will do that.. 17:54 #action Get in touch with current and former board members, ask about seats, terms, and quorum, and try to find writen evidence on the Wiki or IRC/MLs logs 17:54 * meetingology Get in touch with current and former board members, ask about seats, terms, and quorum, and try to find writen evidence on the Wiki or IRC/MLs logs 17:54 #action elacheche will get in touch with current and former board members, ask about seats, terms, and quorum, and try to find writen evidence on the Wiki or IRC/MLs logs 17:54 * meetingology elacheche will get in touch with current and former board members, ask about seats, terms, and quorum, and try to find writen evidence on the Wiki or IRC/MLs logs 17:55 We're late.. Any other suggestions, or should we move? 17:55 Next.. 17:55 #topic Bootstrap new, official, Ubuntu flavours - @Wimpress aka flexiondotorg 17:56 So, I mentioned this before. 17:56 flexiondotorg: can you resume that, and what actions are needed in this stage? 17:57 The idea is this, the CC activly engages with desktop environment communities or application communities to encourage them to create an Ubuntu flavour. 17:57 Example of a desktop environment community could be Liri. 17:57 Example of application community could be Kodi. 17:58 i like the idea 17:58 fresh blood is always a nice thing 17:58 I'd like to propose that each dev cycle the CC reach out to an agreed number of projects to invite them in. 17:58 it might be especially good to find projects that don't have packaging or have outdated packaging 17:58 I do too.. But we should have some good arguments to convince them to do so 17:59 Question is, how many projects (should they all accept) is a managable number for us to steward? 17:59 elacheche: Yes, we need material to support this. 17:59 i think the number should be kept small 17:59 actually maybe just start with one 17:59 flexiondotorg: We probably should get in touch with someone from the technical board as well to help us answer your questions 17:59 do it as a trial and then decide from there 18:00 these are not necessarily technical issues, elacheche 18:00 OK, your idea seems fair wxl.. We can start with 1 18:01 Working with the TB is essential, since they have to approve/deny applications to become a flavour. 18:01 We are out of time here.. As there is no other meetings planned for today, we can extend our meeting? 18:01 You can check that here → http://ubuntu-news.org/calendars/ 18:01 So part of our role would be making sure they are ready to apply before contacting the TB. 18:01 ^^ that's what i meant 18:01 I think deciding on a contacting 2 projects per cycle is ample. 18:02 And may end promptly if they are not interested. 18:02 We have one in flight right now, Ubuntu Unity. 18:02 I suppose the first thing to agree, is that we agree this is something we will do. 18:02 Do we agree? 18:03 yes 18:03 I think we had consensus last time I proposed this. 18:03 YES.. We should work on getting new people involved 18:03 * flexiondotorg waits for others to comment 18:03 yep 18:04 OK, that is enough. 18:04 flexiondotorg: So, what's the next action? 18:04 Next question, is contacting 2 projects per cycle sufficient? 18:05 I think that's enough for a trial as wxl said.. So we can manage that and have a feedback to improve, if we find the good path we can increase that the next cycle.. What do you think 18:06 I think if 2 both agree it would generate quite some work and more than 2 would be unmanagable. 18:07 I also forsee projects declining, but that fine too. At least we extended and invitation. 18:07 So, here is the action I would like to request. 18:07 sorry, I agree 18:08 Every CC member should find one desktop environment or set top application and add that to a topic I will start in the Hub. 18:08 Next meeting we can decide which is those 7 project we contact. 18:08 Which 2 of the 7. 18:09 +1 18:09 I wrote up some of the process of becoming a flavour for Ubuntu Unity. 18:09 +1 18:09 We should use that as a starting point. 18:09 * elacheche can't wait to seem the "Ubuntu AweomeWM" flavor :D :p 18:10 Yes, significant Window Managers count as DE :-) 18:10 I think we can all find something, and duplication of suggestions is fine. 18:10 YESS 18:10 * wxl is an awesome user 18:10 actually there's a couple tiling wayland wms out now........ 18:10 wxl: AWESOME people uses awesomewm :p 18:10 Right, I'll take the action to start to topic. 18:11 Everyone else get the action to bring their suggestions. 18:11 OK then flexiondotorg 18:11 #action flexiondotorg start a HUB thread about Bootstrap new, official, Ubuntu flavours 18:11 * meetingology flexiondotorg start a HUB thread about Bootstrap new, official, Ubuntu flavours 18:11 wxl: Save it for the Hub :-D 18:11 #action ALL CC members suggest a Desktop or and Application then we will vote about 2 18:11 * meetingology ALL CC members suggest a Desktop or and Application then we will vote about 2 18:13 Any other suggestion, or should we move on? 18:13 Move on. 18:14 #topic Ubuntu guerrilla marketing campaign - @Wimpress aka flexiondotorg 18:14 So, something else I've mentioned before. 18:14 I thought this might be something we could steward in the absence of GSoC. 18:15 Basic idea is get the LoCos and community making fun, interesting and quality Ubuntu "marketing" material. 18:16 Then get the community sharing these "adverts" for Ubuntu in creative ways to reach people's attention who are outside the FOSS bubble. 18:17 Good idea.. We can ask the LC to announce it so LoCo contacts can share 18:17 This probably needs seeding with some initial examples. 18:18 Which would also be made available in such as way that they can be translated. 18:18 I'm not so interested in seeing a load of tweets. 18:18 I want to see posters, cards in libraries, adverts in shops, banners at sports events. 18:19 The French LoCo are really creative in how they "market" Ubuntu. 18:19 I'd like to see more LoCos being active in fun, interesting ways. 18:20 Release parties are OK, but are rarely attended by new members. 18:20 flexiondotorg: The good thing about Ubuntu-fr is that they are a legal association in France (afaik), so they have some financials to do that.. 18:20 The French LoCo rent a tent a music festivals with Ubuntu flags, computers of pedestals and Ubuntu water applied tatoos. 18:20 And they have the legal authority to put posters and banners in public 18:23 agree with the idea.. who have comments? 18:24 flexiondotorg: what action do you think is needed for this topic 18:24 maybe we provide all the materials and info and documentation for locos and offer them funds to make it happen? 18:25 I think "materials" is the key things there. 18:25 We need to outlines what we are hoping to see, how people can get involved and some example "adverts". 18:26 I don't think we can pitch the idea with out some structure. 18:27 Perhaps a wiki post on the Hub we can all contribute to? 18:27 flexiondotorg: +1 I was about to suggest that too 18:27 To outline the idea and things we need. 18:27 Action me with that then. 18:27 Sounds good 18:28 #action flexiondotorg start a HUB post to discuss this topic 18:28 * meetingology flexiondotorg start a HUB post to discuss this topic 18:28 Anything else we should discuss today? 18:29 If not we should end the meeting.. 18:29 in 10.. 18:29 9.. 18:29 8.. 18:29 7.. 18:29 6.. 18:29 5.. 18:29 4.. 18:30 3.. 18:30 2.. 18:30 1.. 18:30 0. 18:30 Thank you everyone for being here.. I will make sure to send the report link asap and start the action assigned to me asap too. 18:31 In the meanwhile, don't hesitate to share progress via IRC, HUB and/or ML. 18:31 Have a good night/day for all of you 18:31 on that subject 18:31 Yes! 18:31 jose: sysadmins say the process for dealingw ith an lp user would be to file an rt with as much info as possible 18:32 sorry, had to jump on a work meeting 18:32 will get back shortly 18:32 End it 18:32 #endmeeting 18:32 ooh nice delay matrix 18:33 OK, we can move to #ubuntu-communitycouncil to discuss this? I think we should free the meeting channel :D We already extended the meeting by 30min :D 18:33 #endmeeting