15:12 <sil2100> #startmeeting DMB
15:12 <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 13 15:12:24 2017 UTC.  The chair is sil2100. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
15:12 <meetingology> 
15:12 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
15:12 <sil2100> #topic Review of previous action items
15:12 <sil2100> Ok, checking previous action items from the logs
15:13 <bdmurray> my item is not done
15:13 <bdmurray> Do I need to contact the whole TB or just a member regarding the extension?
15:13 <sil2100> Has the addition of rosco2 to the contributing developer team been made and announced?
15:13 <jbicha> one more unfinished item (not on the agenda) is handling fossfreedom's application for upload rights for budgie pkgs
15:15 <sil2100> jbicha: ok, we'll discuss that during AOB, since I guess this one was very tricky
15:15 <micahg> wasn't fossfreedom supposed to come back with endorsements after a period of time
15:15 <sil2100> I think it was hard since he was applying for a non-existing packageset too
15:15 <sil2100> Since the packageset wasn't created yet
15:15 <sil2100> Anyway, we'll get back to it
15:15 <micahg> ok
15:15 <sil2100> rbasak: did you add and announce Rosco2?
15:16 <sil2100> I see that was set for you
15:16 <rbasak> I don't recall.
15:16 * sil2100 rbasak to add Rosco2 to the contributing developer team (rbasak, 19:32)
15:16 * rbasak works off the agenda page
15:16 * sil2100 rbasak to announce Rosco2's new contributing developer team membership (rbasak, 19:32)
15:16 <sil2100> http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-02-27-19.15.html
15:16 <rbasak> OK give those actions to me again please.
15:16 <sil2100> Ok
15:17 <sil2100> #action rbasak to add Rosco2 to the contributing developer team (carried-over)
15:17 * meetingology rbasak to add Rosco2 to the contributing developer team (carried-over)
15:17 <sil2100> #action rbasak to announce Rosco2's new contributing developer team membership (carried over)
15:17 * meetingology rbasak to announce Rosco2's new contributing developer team membership (carried over)
15:17 <sil2100> bdmurray: as for your thing, I think DMB memberships are handled by the DMB, right?
15:17 <rbasak> Thanks! Sorry, I checked only the agenda page earlier today, and assumed I had no actions.
15:18 <micahg> DMB memberships are handled by the TB
15:18 <sil2100> I'll fix that up today
15:18 <sil2100> micahg: ah, hm, ok
15:18 <micahg> oh, membership in DMB owned teams, yeah, we can do those
15:18 <micahg> I thought you meant actually DMB team membership
15:18 <sil2100> It's about DMB membership extension
15:19 <micahg> yeah, TB then
15:19 * sil2100 bdmurray to sort out votes and related items in respect of the two upcoming expiring DMB memberships (rbasak, 20:41)
15:19 <sil2100> micahg: do you know if one TB member is enough?
15:19 <sil2100> Or does it have to involve a vote?
15:19 <micahg> in the past 1 person has just done it I think
15:20 <bdmurray> I'll start with one then.
15:20 <sil2100> micahg: thanks!
15:20 <sil2100> bdmurray: ok, I'll carry it over then as well
15:20 <sil2100> #action bdmurray to sort out votes and related items in respect of the two upcoming expiring DMB memberships (carried over)
15:20 * meetingology bdmurray to sort out votes and related items in respect of the two upcoming expiring DMB memberships (carried over)
15:21 * sil2100 rbasak to sort out the SRU uploaders team (rbasak, 20:41)
15:21 <sil2100> rbasak: that's done I think? ^
15:21 <rbasak> I think so. I deferred actually creating the team in Launchpad until we had one member.
15:21 <sil2100> Makes sense, we might have one today!
15:21 <rbasak> I did announce it.
15:22 <rbasak> (and invite applications)
15:22 <rbasak> Yes :)
15:22 <sil2100> Ok, so one action item finished, woot!
15:23 <sil2100> There are also two other action items from cyphermox regarding chiluk's application - I added him to the team and announced in cyphermox's stead
15:23 <sil2100> Since he was busy
15:23 <sil2100> So this is done as well
15:23 <sil2100> Ok, let's move on
15:24 <sil2100> #topic Ubuntu Contributing Developer Applications
15:24 <sil2100> #subtopic Dan Streetman (ddstreet)
15:24 <ddstreet> o/
15:24 <sil2100> ddstreet: please introduce yourself o/
15:24 <ddstreet> hi guys, I'm Dan
15:25 <ddstreet> I'm applying for contributing developer
15:25 <ddstreet> my application page is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ddstreet/UbuntuContributingDeveloperApplication
15:26 <sil2100> Any questions?
15:27 <rbasak> I reviewed ddstreet's application when he asked me to endorse him. I have no questions.
15:27 <cyphermox> no questions
15:28 <micahg> I have a question
15:28 <micahg> what happened this cycle
15:28 <ddstreet> what do you mean?
15:28 <ddstreet> or is that q not for me?
15:28 <micahg> I see uploads through the end of yakkety
15:29 <ddstreet> ah ok
15:29 <ddstreet> a lot of the work i do is in the kernel
15:29 <ddstreet> so, for the last several months i've been doing kernel work
15:29 <ddstreet> and haven't had any userspace package uploads
15:29 <micahg> is there a reason there's no endorseement from kernel devs?
15:30 <ddstreet> oversight by me...i can ask them
15:30 <ddstreet> i thought the endorsements needed to be from userspace pkg uploaders
15:30 <micahg> any around that can vouch in IRC for you?
15:31 <rbasak> userspace pkg uploaders> I think any and all Ubuntu development work qualifies :)
15:31 <micahg> well, contributing dev is a little different, it's overall dev effort that is reflected in the archive (and I assume your work makes it in eventually)
15:31 <ddstreet> sure kamal probably can
15:32 <sil2100> Not sure if he's around yet though
15:32 <sil2100> (it's around 8:30 am at his place I think)
15:33 <micahg> I'm seeing if I can see what I want to see in LP
15:33 * bdmurray place too
15:34 <sil2100> micahg: ok, give me a sign once your doubts are cleared
15:34 <micahg> ddstreet: are those private repos?
15:34 <ddstreet> are which private repos?
15:34 <ddstreet> my lp git repos?
15:35 <micahg> the kernel work
15:35 <micahg> yeah
15:35 <ddstreet> those are for customer kernel bugs i've worked
15:35 <micahg> oh, sorry, I think I see it now
15:35 <rbasak> While he's doing that, I have a policy question. I consider ddstreet's work "significant and sustained" as it was in October 2016 - sustained until then. So I was a +1 on that basis, regardless of whether he's "sustained" since or not.
15:36 <rbasak> If an applicant reached "signifiant and sustained" in the past in our view, but applies after further contributions are no longer "sustained", should that still be a +1. I had assumed yes, but I'm curious what others think.
15:36 <micahg> ok, I think I'm good, I assume this work was merged in
15:36 <micahg> or most of it at least
15:37 <micahg> sil2100: I'm good
15:38 <rbasak> I guess my question is moot then. Feel free to skip it and move on :)
15:38 <sil2100> rbasak: I personally like to think sustained means 'sustained and still continuing', but in this case it doesn't only mean archive uploads
15:38 <micahg> yeah, I agree with sil2100
15:38 <sil2100> So it's good
15:38 <sil2100> Ok then, let's vote!
15:38 <rbasak> Interesting, thanks.
15:38 <ddstreet> kamal is here if you guys want to ask him
15:38 <sil2100> (it's not my main language so remember it's just my intepretation)
15:38 <ddstreet> about my kernel work
15:38 <ddstreet> kamal o/
15:39 <kamal> hi o/
15:39 <sil2100> micahg: want to ask about kernel work still, or should we start voting?
15:39 <bdmurray> rbasak: I think it depends on the period of time between last upload and application.
15:39 <micahg> oh, if kamal wants to endorse, by all means :0
15:39 <micahg> :)
15:40 <ddstreet> kamal have i done some satisfactory kernel work in the past?
15:40 <kamal> I'm happy to endorse ddstreet ...  he has certainly contributed to the Ubuntu kernel (and our in-the-works custom kernels for clouds) ...
15:40 <ddstreet> in your experience? :)
15:40 <ddstreet> thnx
15:40 <kamal> I've found ddstreet to be easy to work with, and his work is of high quality.
15:40 <kamal> from the Ubuntu Kernel team's perspective, ddstreet is a good kernel contributor and a quality developer.
15:40 <kamal> ..
15:41 <sil2100> kamal: thanks!
15:41 <sil2100> Ok, I think we're good to start the vote
15:41 <sil2100> #vote Grant ddstreet Contributing Developer
15:41 <meetingology> Please vote on: Grant ddstreet Contributing Developer
15:41 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
15:41 <rbasak> +1
15:41 <meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
15:41 <sil2100> +1
15:41 <meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
15:41 <micahg> +1
15:41 <meetingology> +1 received from micahg
15:42 <bdmurray> +1
15:42 <meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
15:42 <cyphermox> +1
15:42 <meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
15:42 <sil2100> #endvote
15:42 <meetingology> Voting ended on: Grant ddstreet Contributing Developer
15:42 <meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
15:42 <meetingology> Motion carried
15:42 <kamal> +1
15:42 <ddstreet> \o/
15:42 <sil2100> ddstreet: congratulations!
15:42 <kamal> ddstreet, congrats!
15:42 <sil2100> Who wants to take care of adding and announcing?
15:43 <sil2100> I'll assign it to me
15:43 <sil2100> #action sil2100 to add ddstreet to the contributing developer team
15:43 * meetingology sil2100 to add ddstreet to the contributing developer team
15:44 <sil2100> #action sil2100 to announce ddstreet's new membership
15:44 * meetingology sil2100 to announce ddstreet's new membership
15:44 <sil2100> Ok, moving on
15:44 <sil2100> #topic SRU-UPLOADER Applications
15:44 <sil2100> #subtopic Eric Desrochers (slashd)
15:44 <sil2100> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/slashd/sru-uploader
15:44 <sil2100> slashd: hello! Please introduce yourself :)
15:45 <slashd> My name is Eric (Ubuntu Member/Contributing Developer) working for Canonical for about 3 years now. I'm a Software Engineer in the Sustaining Engineering Group (Canonical STS) help in driving Ubuntu Advantage customer and community bugs into resolution by troubleshooting, fixing bugs, providing guidance & workarounds, for different areas of expertise which may cover areas such as: kernel, drivers, virtualization, network,
15:45 <slashd> cloud, storage setups, ... I'm working on various packaging aspects including hotfix/testfix and of course : SRU, ...
15:45 <slashd> Wiki SRU Uploader Application : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/slashd/sru-uploader
15:45 <slashd> LP : https://launchpad.net/~slashd
15:45 <slashd> Sponsored Uploads : http://ubuntu-dev.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu-sponsorships.cgi?render=html&sponsor=&sponsor_search=name&sponsoree=Eric+Desrochers&sponsoree_search=name
15:45 <sil2100> Questions please
15:46 * rbasak is reading
15:48 <sil2100> hm, you have a strange (interesting?) style of formatting changelog entries I noticed
15:48 <bdmurray> Can you talk about bug 1579609? It looks like it took a couple of uploads to fix it.
15:48 <ubottu> bug 1579609 in os-prober (Ubuntu Xenial) "os-prober bug resulting in possible FS corruption" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1579609
15:49 <slashd> bdmurray, yeah, I was working with cyphermox on this (joint work) and cjwatson was also working on his side separately, so we did a few upload in -proposed but decided to set them verification-failed as we found new bugs, and new thing to add based on the joint effort
15:49 <slashd> but we have now a release that addresses everything in -update now
15:50 <slashd> version 3.3 IIRC
15:50 <slashd> ...3.3
15:50 <bdmurray> Did all those changes also make it into zesty?
15:50 <cjwatson> I don't think anyone can be blamed for it taking a few goes to get os-prober stuff right at the moment FWIW
15:50 <cjwatson> there's a different and much more invasive approach in zesty
15:51 <slashd> bdmurray, there is some bit missing in zesty still, cyphermox prefer to keep the re-work form cjwatson for Zesty only.
15:51 <cjwatson> (er, sorry, I just saw the highlight of my name, since this is a DMB meeting I should probably butt out)
15:51 <cyphermox> cjwatson: nah, it's good your input is welcome
15:51 <slashd> cjwatson, thanks for jumping on the discussion ;)
15:52 <bdmurray> Okay, that's all I had.
15:52 <rbasak> slashd: can you tell me what sort of things you expect to put in the "Regression Potential" section of the SRU paperwork?
15:53 <slashd> rbasak, just to make sure we are on the same page, are you referring to the SRU justification ?
15:53 <slashd> template
15:53 <rbasak> Right
15:53 <bdmurray> slashd: Do you envision yourself sponsoring other SRU uploads?
15:54 <slashd> I'm expecting someone doing the SRU or myself, to evaluate all possible scenarios of failure, or note any potential risk (major or minor) or behavoural changes (if any)
15:55 <slashd> bdmurray, I'm expecting to do it yes for help other in my team eventually
15:55 <sil2100> slashd: for the SRU uploads you prepared so far, were you also preparing all the SRU paperwork (the SRU template in the description)?
15:55 <slashd> or wider (depending on the needs and how I can help)
15:56 <slashd> sil21000, yes + debdiff for all affected releases
15:56 * rbasak puts on his ~ubuntu-sru hat for a moment
15:56 <bdmurray> slashd: Not specifically related to your application but why is bug 1670696 worth fixing?
15:56 <ubottu> bug 1670696 in makedumpfile (Ubuntu Zesty) "Typo in error msg when no crashkernel memory reservation is set" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1670696
15:57 <bdmurray> s/fixing/SRUing/
15:57 <slashd> bdmurray, in a specific release or in general ?
15:57 <rbasak> Looking at the paperwork in 1593378, 1452202, 1648901, 1579609 and 1579609, I think the regression potential sections are all missing the "it's important to make the effort to think about what could happen in the event of a regression" part.
15:58 <rbasak> I'm relatively new on ~ubuntu-sru and I understand that I push harder on this than the others.
15:58 <bdmurray> slashd: Why is there a xenial task?
15:58 <rbasak> And this is the first SRU uploader application, so I'm not sure it's right to hold you to a higher standard than others, for example existing core devs.
15:59 <micahg> I'd say yes
15:59 <slashd> rbasak, I see it in #1593378, havent' check them all, but I normally pay really good attention to it, by reading one than once and updating several time until I find the justification good enought in my point of view
15:59 <micahg> (not because of him specifically)
15:59 <micahg> but in general, we should push for what's best for the archive/distro, not necessarily based on what's happened before
16:00 <micahg> IMHO of course
16:00 <rbasak> So I think I'm +1 on this currently, but I also think it's appropriate to call out.
16:00 <rbasak> And I think that future applicants for this new team would be the ones who should hold the standard up for SRU process quality.
16:00 <bdmurray> looking at 1593378 it might help to also say how long the patch has been in place e.g. 10 months or whatever
16:01 <sil2100> Any other questions?
16:01 <rbasak> I hope this application is being watched closely by potential future applicants.
16:01 <tinoco> rbasak: yep
16:02 <bdmurray> slashd: I'm still curious about the X task for 1670696...
16:02 <rbasak> So I'd like to say that I'll expect the SRUs provided as examples against future applications to only increase in quality to the (new) higher standard I'd like to see.
16:03 <rbasak> But for slashd, I appreciate that he's the first and that he's only what existing uploaders do, so I don't think it'd productive to decline this application.
16:03 <rbasak> Thank you for reading. I have no further questions.
16:04 <sil2100> bdmurray: are you still waiting for an answer?
16:04 <slashd> bdmurray, sure well I agree that it's not affecting the functionnality of the software, but this is a typo that can confuse ppl ("kenrel" instead of "kernel") not technical enough with kernel term
16:05 <bdmurray> Its not relevant to my vote, but I'd reject that SRU unless it was bundled with other real fixes.
16:05 <slashd> bdmurray noted
16:06 <sil2100> Ok, let's vote
16:06 <bdmurray> Its some amount of work to update the archive etc.. and it doesn't seem warranted in the case of a typo.
16:06 <slashd> bdmurray, ack
16:06 <rbasak> Also, there's *always* a regression risk.
16:07 <rbasak> That patch itself may not introduce a regression.
16:07 <sil2100> #vote Grant slashd SRU-UPLOADER
16:07 <meetingology> Please vote on: Grant slashd SRU-UPLOADER
16:07 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
16:07 <rbasak> But a rebuild might if the build is accidentally non-deterministic, or if dependencies have changed.
16:07 <slashd> make sense
16:08 <rbasak> Or a user could be parsing error messages in some script somewhere.
16:08 <rbasak> +1
16:08 <meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
16:08 <bdmurray> +1
16:08 <meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
16:08 <sil2100> +1
16:08 <meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
16:08 <cyphermox> +1
16:08 <meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
16:09 <micahg> +1
16:09 <meetingology> +1 received from micahg
16:09 <sil2100> #endvote
16:09 <meetingology> Voting ended on: Grant slashd SRU-UPLOADER
16:09 <meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
16:09 <meetingology> Motion carried
16:09 <sil2100> slashd: congratulations as well! \o/
16:09 <rbasak> Congratulations on the first member of a team that hasn't been created yet :-)
16:09 <slashd> \o/ thanks guys
16:09 <sil2100> rbasak: will you take care of this?
16:10 <sil2100> Since this requires creation of the team as well
16:10 <rbasak> Yes, but as I'm on vacation I'd like to do it when I'm back on Monday, if that's OK slashd?
16:10 <slashd> rbasak, sure
16:10 <sil2100> #action rbasak to create and add slashd to the new SRU-UPLOADERS team
16:10 * meetingology rbasak to create and add slashd to the new SRU-UPLOADERS team
16:10 * rbasak will not be using all-caps :-P
16:10 <sil2100> #action rbasak to announce slashd's new SRU-UPLOADERS team membership
16:10 * meetingology rbasak to announce slashd's new SRU-UPLOADERS team membership
16:10 <sil2100> Hey, I'm just using what's in the agenda!
16:11 <rbasak> I realise that ;)
16:11 <sil2100> I thought that was official or something ;p
16:11 <bdmurray> It should be SRU-uploaders though!
16:11 <sil2100> #topic Any other business
16:11 <sil2100> Ok, final topic
16:11 <rbasak> When we rename to ~ubuntu-SRU perhaps? :-P
16:11 <sil2100> fossfreedom's budgie application
16:11 <bdmurray> don't tempt me
16:12 <sil2100> So it seems his application is stalled with not everyone voting yet
16:12 <sil2100> But his case is a very difficult one
16:12 <bdmurray> I think I did vote, did that get lost like chiluks?
16:12 <jbicha> micahg: late comment: fossfreedom wasn't told that he needed to come back with more endorsements on the mailing list or at the December meeting
16:12 <sil2100> We need to resolve it and inform him of our decision
16:13 <sil2100> Ah
16:13 <sil2100> bdmurray: indeed I see your vote in my inbox, why didn't I see it before?
16:13 <sil2100> Magic
16:14 <sil2100> Ok, so I think during the IRC meeting we had: Votes for:3 Votes against:1 Abstentions:1
16:14 <sil2100> And then bdmurray's -1
16:14 <sil2100> So his application has been rejected
16:15 <sil2100> I think we need to just announce that properly, this has somehow been very troublesome
16:15 <rbasak> So it stands at 3:2:1?
16:15 <sil2100> Yeah, not sure if we'll ever get infinity's vote
16:15 <rbasak> If so, then theoretically if he received a +1 from infinity then he could still be approved.
16:16 <rbasak> Right
16:16 <rbasak> Technically he is so far "not carried" rather then "rejected" then.
16:16 <sil2100> Ok, I'll put this on my plate then, I'll poke infinity directly and if not, just send out the current result
16:17 <sil2100> #action sil2100 to finalize fossfreedom's application vote situation
16:17 * meetingology sil2100 to finalize fossfreedom's application vote situation
16:17 <rbasak> Sounds good. Thanks sil2100
16:17 <jbicha> thanks
16:17 <sil2100> Ok, I think we're a bit overdue already
16:17 <sil2100> Anything else?
16:18 <sil2100> I'll update the agenda in a bit with all what happened today
16:18 <sil2100> #endmeeting