19:13 <sil2100> #startmeeting DMB meeting
19:13 <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Jan 30 19:13:59 2017 UTC.  The chair is sil2100. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
19:13 <meetingology> 
19:13 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
19:14 <sil2100> #topic Review of previous action items
19:14 <sil2100> rbasak to get mapreri's PPU additions done by the TB (carried over) <- is it still in progress?
19:15 <rbasak> I've not managed to address anything for the DMB yet this year - sorry. I believe it's still in progress.
19:15 <rbasak> IIRC, the TB did do something for us. I need to find out where it is.
19:16 <sil2100> Ok, so I guess the other one is carried over as well
19:16 <sil2100> Let's skip to the next point then
19:16 <sil2100> #topic Package Set/Per Package Uploader Applications
19:16 <sil2100> I see we still have David's application on the agenda
19:17 <sil2100> Does anyone know if the vote for that got finalized on the ML?
19:17 <sil2100> I at least don't remember getting the rest of the votes for that one
19:17 <rbasak> I don't remember seeing any further votes on that.
19:18 <rbasak> Yeah, no replies AFAICS.
19:18 <mapreri> rbasak, sil2100: ISTR my PPU addition also required voting.
19:18 <mapreri> when did those happen?
19:19 <sil2100> I don't think single additions require a vote, right?
19:19 <sil2100> Just one DMB member, if he decides it's fitting, can do the permission changes - or am I wrong?
19:19 <rbasak> I think (and said) otherwise.
19:20 <rbasak> AFAIK, a packageset addition can be done by one DMB member verifying that the proposed new package meets the packageset criteria in the description.
19:20 <rbasak> But I'm not aware of anything like that for PPU.
19:20 <sil2100> Ah, indeed
19:20 <sil2100> You might be right
19:20 <mapreri> Yeah, I'm reporting due to what rbasak told me privately, given that I completely fail at finding a through description of DMB workflows :)
19:20 <rbasak> There may be a policy I don't recall or never read about.
19:20 <rbasak> All I know is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/KnowledgeBase
19:21 <rbasak> But, I think a vote for mapreri should be straightforward.
19:21 <mapreri> oh, consider that I'm DD requiring PPU for a package I maintain, that might streamline the process for this particular case.
19:22 <sil2100> Should we vote? We don't have a quorrum so it'd have to go through the ML as well
19:22 <chiluk> if only I had a vote I'd vote for you mapreri.\
19:22 <rbasak> Do we have a list of what mapreri can already upload?
19:23 <mapreri> rbasak: pbuilder and libreoffice-dictionaries are in my PPU list from main; then I'm also MOTU.
19:23 <mapreri> chiluk: :)
19:23 <rbasak> mapreri: how long have you had those?
19:23 <mapreri> rbasak: iirc early December 2016
19:24 <rbasak> Ah, OK.
19:24 <sil2100> Indeed:
19:24 <sil2100> Archive Upload Rights for mapreri: archive 'primary', source package 'pbuilder'
19:24 <sil2100> Archive Upload Rights for mapreri: archive 'primary', source package 'libreoffice-dictionaries'Archive Upload Rights for mapreri: archive 'primary', source package 'pbuilder'
19:24 <rbasak> mapreri: how long have you been maintaining inkscape in Debian?
19:24 <mapreri> rbasak: yeah, recently.
19:24 <sil2100> Uh, double-paste I guess
19:24 <mapreri> uh
19:24 <mapreri> some time 2015 i think
19:24 <rbasak> 2015?
19:24 <rbasak> OK
19:25 <mapreri> my first thing in the changelog is 2014
19:25 <rbasak> I'm ready to vote then. Shame we don't have quorum :-/
19:25 <rbasak> (but we can do a partial vote now and try to finish it on the ML later)
19:25 <sil2100> Yeah, let's vote, I'll push the rest to the ML
19:25 <mapreri> rbasak: (if it's still interesting)  [ Mattia Rizzolo ]\n  * debian/control: add myself to Uploaders => Apr 2015
19:25 <sil2100> #vote for mapreri to gain additional PPU rights for inkscape
19:25 <meetingology> Please vote on: for mapreri to gain additional PPU rights for inkscape
19:25 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
19:26 <sil2100> +1
19:26 <meetingology> +1 received from sil2100
19:26 <rbasak> +1
19:26 <meetingology> +1 received from rbasak
19:26 <sil2100> cyphermox: you still around?
19:28 <chiluk> sil2100: rbasak from KB "DDs who are PPU through the normal process can apply by email to have their access extended to further packages they (or a team they are a member of) maintain. This only requires one DMB member to agree in order to pass."
19:28 <rbasak> Ah
19:28 <sil2100> Oh
19:28 <sil2100> #endvote
19:28 <meetingology> Voting ended on: for mapreri to gain additional PPU rights for inkscape
19:28 <meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
19:28 <meetingology> Motion carried
19:28 <chiluk> sounds like it's a pass  mapreri
19:28 <rbasak> OK, done then. Sorry mapreri, I could have just done it when you first asked.
19:29 <mapreri> Oh.  Well, guess all learned something today :)
19:29 <sil2100> Should I add an action item for each of us to look through the KB again? ;)
19:30 <chiluk> it's all the way at the bottom.. no one reads that far.
19:30 <sil2100> Anyway, let's continue
19:30 <mapreri> Thank you, anyway!
19:30 <sil2100> mapreri: you're welcome!
19:30 <sil2100> rbasak: will you handle that?
19:30 <rbasak> Does someone want to take an action to sort that with the TB?
19:30 <rbasak> Sure.
19:30 <sil2100> Thanks :)
19:30 <sil2100> #topic Ubuntu Core Developer Applications
19:31 <cyphermox> sorry, i was on the phone
19:31 <sil2100> #subtopic Dave Chiluk
19:31 <sil2100> chiluk: could you introduce yourself?
19:31 <chiluk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/chiluk/CoreDevApplication
19:31 <chiluk> I've been working for Canonical as a Sustaining engineer for the last 4 years fixing Ubuntu advantage customer issues.
19:32 <chiluk> many of which don't result in uploads.
19:32 <chiluk> I've had a LP id since 2008, and I think I started with Ubuntu in 06..
19:32 <chiluk> so it's been a while.
19:32 <chiluk> I mostly fix packages in main, hence the Coredev app instead of MOTU.
19:33 <chiluk> and I also mostly do SRU's and not development uploads.
19:33 <chiluk> actually probably 80% of my uploads are SRUs.
19:33 <chiluk> which makes getting fixes out a real bear..
19:34 <chiluk> since I currently need two other devs to approve any of my fixes.
19:34 <chiluk> I think that's most of it.
19:34 <rbasak> Two questions: 1) what are your goals with respect to upload rights; and 2) is not having core dev blocking you at the moment, apart from uploading SRUs, and if so, how?
19:35 <rbasak> IOW, are you asking for core dev just to fix the SRU problem?
19:35 <chiluk> rbasak: 1) I'd like upload rights so I no longer have to harass existing core devs.
19:36 <chiluk> 2.) it is blocking me at the moment. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qemu/+bug/1655225
19:36 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 1655225 in qemu (Ubuntu) "Under heavy load qemu hits bdrv_error_action: Assertion `error >= 0' failed" [Medium,New]
19:36 <chiluk> is a good example
19:36 <chiluk> mostly I feel that me not having core dev puts an undo burden on the other core devs in the U.S. Timezones.
19:37 <chiluk> as I'm part of a larger team with few core devs.
19:37 <rbasak> Are you familiar with the conversation with - slashd I think?
19:37 <chiluk> rbasak I am.
19:38 <chiluk> and rbasak I'm not sure if that would be useful.
19:38 <rbasak> I'm sorry I haven't addressed that yet.
19:38 <rbasak> But I am interested in your opinion. Please go on.
19:38 <chiluk> rbasak, I'm also TIL on a few packages ..
19:38 <rbasak> (I'm sorry I have to run in 20 minutes, otherwise I'd chat for longer right now)
19:38 <chiluk> rbasak, also I'm not sure if having SRU only upload is even possible given the structure of teams in LP.
19:39 <chiluk> I do like the general idea, but I don't think it's doable given the current structure of development in Ubuntu.
19:39 <chiluk> unless there's something that LP can do that I'm not aware of.
19:40 <rbasak> My concern is that based on your application I feel that your experience is quite narrow. I would like to hear what others think of this kind of case. I appreciate the pain and I want to fix that. But does that mean it's appropriate to change ACLs bits to wide open?
19:41 <sil2100> chiluk: I have a question regarding a recent discussion I saw on #ubuntu-devel - it seems one of your merges didn't have a correct changelog, right?
19:41 <rbasak> I'm really quite torn, and I think the answer to that question is bigger than just me or a few people on the DMB.
19:41 <chiluk> sil2100: yes that is correct.
19:41 <sil2100> chiluk: why was that? Did you put non-remaining changes into the 'remaining changes' part by mistake?
19:41 <rbasak> And I'm interested to hear what some really-long-time Ubuntu devs think.
19:41 <sil2100> (like, new changes)
19:42 <chiluk> sil2100: it was a merge I did this morning that I was TIL on.  and yes it was a mistake... the change still existed, but it had been merged into debian..
19:42 <sil2100> Ah, ok
19:43 <chiluk> sil2100: I also do my best to get the corresponding dd or previous UCD to do the upload... which is part of the reason slangasek caught that one.
19:44 <chiluk> rbasak what other things do you think I need to broaden my experience?
19:45 <chiluk> I guess another reason I'd like to get coredev is so that I can manage series tracks in bugs.
19:46 <chiluk> I think there's another team for that, but coredev is definitely included in that group.
19:47 <chiluk> exuse me for a sec, but I need to make sure my dog is not being eaten by a coyote.
19:47 <cyphermox> well, everyone makes mistakes in changelogs every once in a while, or in merging anyway. I usually first go through making changelog and then ripping things out if it shows that they are in fact merged or no longer require
19:48 <sil2100> chiluk: during your work on packages, did you have a lot experience with dealing with autopkgtests, proposed migration and the like?
19:48 <rbasak> chiluk: I think if I were to filter SRUs out of your endorsements and your sponsored uploads, it would be a bit thin. I'm not sure we'd give core dev to a hypothetical applicant with that application.
19:48 <rbasak> Now, it may be that Ubuntu devs say "yes but that's fine", and that's an open question that I'm not sure about.
19:48 <rbasak> I intend to prioritise getting that thread started about this.
19:50 <chiluk> sil2100: I did have to deal with autopkgtest failures with my core-utils upload, and possibly a few others.
19:50 <chiluk> but there are only a few.
19:50 <sil2100> chiluk: did you always make sure that the packages that were sponsored for you made it to the release pocket?
19:51 <chiluk> always..
19:51 <chiluk> that's part of our teams process.
19:51 <rbasak> I need to run very soon.
19:51 <chiluk> we don't close our customer cases, until our package uploads hit the -udates archives.
19:51 <sil2100> Ok, I had one more question, but rbasak maybe you want me to start the vote now?
19:51 <chiluk> rbasak, additionally we are usually the first to do verification on the uploads as well..
19:52 <rbasak> I would like to defer my vote for now, pending any outcome of the thread. I'm sorry I have not followed up on that yet. I will prioritise doing that.
19:52 <sil2100> Ok
19:52 <rbasak> Especially now that there are two blocked on it.
19:52 <rbasak> I'm sorry for the pain and I really want to unblock you, but I also feel that it's a bigger issue that we should resolve, and that it's important for us to be consistent.
19:52 <sil2100> In this case what I would propose is to take the vote to the mailing list in that case
19:52 <chiluk> rbasak: completely understood.
19:53 <chiluk> I just feel this is the next logical step for me to become more efficient.. and for the rest of the team to be more efficient by not having to micro-manage my uploads.
19:53 <sil2100> There everyone will be able to think his decision though
19:53 <sil2100> chiluk: ok, one semi-technical question - let's say you work on a package (or maybe sponsor some upload for someone) where you add a new binary dependency to a package
19:53 <rbasak> chiluk: to be clear, I'd be happy with you uploading SRUs without a sponsor.
19:54 <rbasak> Based on your application.
19:54 <rbasak> I'm just not sure that core dev is the right step, and that's what I'd like wider opinion on.
19:54 <chiluk> thanks rbasak
19:54 <sil2100> chiluk: what would be the first few things you'd need to check in such a case?
19:54 <rbasak> I'm going to run as I need to be somewhere.
19:54 <sil2100> rbasak: see you o/
19:54 <rbasak> Sorry I couldn't help more today.
19:54 <rbasak> o/
19:55 <chiluk> sil2100: add to debian/control, check for additional dependencies, then check for other packages that depend on the package I changed...
19:55 <chiluk> manifest for iso's may need to change as well.
19:55 <chiluk> also rebuilding may be necessary for all related packages
19:55 <chiluk> depending on the change.
19:55 <sil2100> chiluk: ok, now let's say the package you work on is in main - does that opt for some additional change?
19:55 <sil2100> I mean, additional check?
19:56 <chiluk> yes.. if the dependency is in universe
19:56 <sil2100> That's what I wanted to hear
19:56 <chiluk> that universe package may have to be pulled into main as well...
19:56 <chiluk> I haven't had to do that yet.
19:56 <chiluk> but I'm aware of the restrictions related to it.
19:56 <sil2100> It very frequently happens with packages that Canonical is upstream for
19:56 <sil2100> Anyway
19:57 <chiluk> fortunately I will rarely be the uploader for those.
19:57 <sil2100> Ok, those are all questions from me
19:57 <sil2100> cyphermox: any questions?
19:57 <sil2100> If not, I guess let's move this to a mailing thread and do the vote there
19:57 <chiluk> I'm ok with that.
19:57 <chiluk> infinity can reject me there.
19:58 <chiluk> because infinity.
19:58 <sil2100> Noo, Adam's not like that!
19:58 <sil2100> He's a good guy, really
19:58 <sil2100> For realz
19:58 <sil2100> Anyway, thanks for showing up and sorry for not being able to sort it out here
19:58 <chiluk> sil2100: i know... I just like to give him crap.
19:58 <sil2100> ;)
19:59 <sil2100> #endmeeting