20:10 <cyphermox> #startmeeting DMB 2016-03-28
20:10 <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Mar 28 20:10:15 2016 UTC.  The chair is cyphermox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
20:10 <meetingology> 
20:10 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
20:11 <cyphermox> #topic Review of previous action items
20:11 <cyphermox> any change?
20:12 <cyphermox> #voters cyphermox stgraber bdmurray micahg
20:12 <meetingology> Current voters: bdmurray cyphermox micahg stgraber
20:12 <cyphermox> moving on...
20:13 <cyphermox> #topic Ubuntu Contributing Developer applications
20:13 <cyphermox> looks like we don't have slashd around here today; skipping to the next point on agenda
20:13 <cyphermox> #topic Ubuntu Core Developer applications
20:14 <cyphermox> #subtopic Michael Hudson-Doyle's application (mwhudson) for core-dev
20:14 * mwhudson o/
20:14 <cyphermox> mwhudson: please introduce yourself
20:14 <mwhudson> hi, i'm a long time canonical employee who has been moving more and into ubuntu dev over the years
20:15 <mwhudson> i've been de facto maintaining go for the last 6 or 7 months
20:16 <mwhudson> i'm going to be working on using go shared libraries in the next cycle, which will require touching every package that we want to build into a shared library
20:16 <mwhudson> which is why i'm applying for core dev rather than ppu, even though i don't have heaps of uploads on varied things yet
20:17 <mwhudson> .. is that enough? :)
20:17 <mwhudson> oh yes, i've also applied to maintain go in debian
20:18 <mwhudson> and have developed a decent relationship with the existing golang maintainers
20:22 <cyphermox> any DMB members have questions for mwhudson?
20:22 <cyphermox> stgraber: bdmurray: micahg: ?
20:23 <cyphermox> mwhudson: how does working on golang qualify you for dealing with all packages in the ubuntu archive?
20:23 <mwhudson> cyphermox: well, it doesn't, i guess
20:23 <bdmurray> mwhudson: You seem to be in favor of having all uploads reviewed, would you be looking for people to review your uploads?
20:23 <mwhudson> cyphermox: surely not all core devs work on all packages?
20:24 <cyphermox> mwhudson: well, really it's a thinly veiled deeper question ;)
20:24 <mwhudson> cyphermox: i think my record in other projects should indicate that you don't need to worry about going crazy and doing things un-supervised
20:24 <mwhudson> bdmurray: for less trivial things, yes
20:24 <doko> cyphermox, ohh, he's touching gccgo as well ;p
20:25 <cyphermox> doko: you didn't write a testimonial for mwhudson on his wiki page; are you here to cheer for him? :)
20:25 <mwhudson> bdmurray: there's a difference between asking for advice/review and asking for sponsorship
20:25 <bdmurray> doko: You've sponsored some packages for him, do you have an opinion?
20:25 <mwhudson> bdmurray: in my experience on other projects too
20:26 <doko> sorry, otp
20:26 <mwhudson> bdmurray: e.g. getting commit rights to go upstream smoothed things, even though getting stuff reviewed there is easier than getting sponsorship in ubuntu ime
20:27 <mwhudson> that said, if you want to see more general ubuntu dev from me before granting core dev, i won't be offended!
20:28 <micahg> stgraber sponsored an upload as well :)
20:28 <cyphermox> so did I
20:28 <stgraber> haha, yeah, tiny packaging fix :)
20:28 <mwhudson> my attempts at getting advocates on my application were not very successful :/
20:29 <cyphermox> mwhudson: it's not that there's anything wrong with the application per se, every one is different. we're just trying to see if you understand the impact of what you're done so far, and limitations
20:29 <cyphermox> you have one testimonial from slangasek already, and doko was here too to vouch for you; that's good
20:30 <cyphermox> (I'm not saying more to not influence the decision of the other DMB members. FWIW, I'm ready to vote)
20:30 <mwhudson> cyphermox: what do you mean by limitations?
20:31 <cyphermox> mwhudson: when it's time to ask for review, etc.
20:31 <mwhudson> ah ok
20:31 <mwhudson> i think by nature i err on the side of caution there
20:31 <mwhudson> possibly excessively so :-)
20:32 <micahg> mwhudson: are you familiar with the release cycle and which type of uploads are appropriate when?
20:33 <mwhudson> micahg: yes, more or less
20:34 <mwhudson> as in we are in final freeze now, so all changes to things that are seeded require release team approval, and past beta you need a ffe from a release team for new features
20:35 <mwhudson> for better or worse i seem to interact with ~ubuntu-release people quite a lot :-)
20:35 <micahg> do you know where you can find the milestone dates with all the relevant freezes and links to their respective documentation?
20:36 <mwhudson> on the wiki? i always have to google to find the page though :)
20:36 <mwhudson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseSchedule
20:37 <mwhudson> the stuff i work on tends not to be very user-facing, so i don't know much about the ui freeze/translation stuff
20:38 <micahg> yeah, googling is fine :)
20:39 <micahg> but if you notice, feature freeze actually kicks in about a week before the first beta so things can be stabilized
20:40 <mwhudson> ah yes
20:40 <stgraber> micahg: when we are in beta freeze or other similar milestone where we're about to put out images, do you know how to check whether a package you're about to upload is affected (and so know when to refrain from uploading)?
20:40 <mwhudson> i am subscribed (and actually read :-p) to ubuntu-devel-announce
20:40 <mwhudson> stgraber: assuming that was for me, i use seeded-in-ubuntu
20:41 <micahg> that was likely an mtcf
20:41 * micahg made an acronym :)
20:41 <stgraber> yeah, I sure hope micahg know about it :)
20:41 <mwhudson> micahg: m tab completion fail?
20:41 <micahg> multi-tasking tab complete failure
20:42 <mwhudson> ah
20:42 <micahg> or should that be mttcf
20:42 <stgraber> mwhudson: so next cycle while the cdimage team is preparing beta-1, are you fine to upload vlc to the archive?
20:45 <mwhudson> stgraber: i admit don't entirely understand what seeded-in-ubuntu is telling me here (it's only seeded in the daily images, so maybe it's ok?) so i would certainly ask someone before uploading
20:46 <stgraber> mwhudson: daily and daily-live specifically mean that it's on an image
20:46 <stgraber> though I admit my tricky question kinda failed here because mate is now seeding it :)
20:47 <stgraber> mwhudson: care to take a guess at the same for mythtv? :)
20:48 <mwhudson> let me guess this is going to depend if mythbuntu is official in some sense
20:48 <stgraber> haha, not official, but close
20:48 <mwhudson> i don't *think* mythbuntu is handled by the cdimage team, but i don't know
20:49 <stgraber> mythbuntu is an official flavour, everything seeded-in-ubuntu tells you is usually right
20:49 <stgraber> however mythbuntu is an LTS-only flavour
20:49 <mwhudson> so again, i'd be asking
20:49 <stgraber> so they do no put out images in non-LTS cycles which means that those packages aren't actually frozen
20:50 <stgraber> mwhudson: have you ever done a package merge? do you know where to get the list of pending merges?
20:50 <mwhudson> ah so next cycle it would be ok to upload something mythubuntu-only during freeze, but it would not have been this cycle
20:50 <mwhudson> stgraber: i have merged golang several times
20:50 <stgraber> mwhudson: correct
20:50 <mwhudson> stgraber: merges.ubuntu.com
20:50 <mwhudson> wait, that's not the list of pending merges i guess
20:50 <stgraber> mwhudson: cool, are you going to help merging more packages next cycle?
20:50 <mwhudson> yes
20:51 <stgraber> it is, the links to the index files can be found in the header
20:51 <stgraber> cool
20:51 <stgraber> mwhudson: how about library transitions? can you tell us what's involved with those?
20:51 <mwhudson> i also have a medium term plan to get rid of the delta for the golang packaging entirely ...
20:51 <mwhudson> stgraber: as in, new SONAMEs?
20:52 <stgraber> mwhudson: right
20:52 <mwhudson> i only know the outlines, that you upload a new lib source package that creates eg libfoo4, then upload (or rebuild) all its deps until nothing reverse-depends on the now nbs libfoo3 package and it can be removed from the archive
20:53 <mwhudson> i've only watched from the sidelines though, never really been involved
20:53 <mwhudson> (something that will obviously change a bit with go shared libraries)
20:54 <stgraber> do you know of the tool we use to track those?
20:54 <mwhudson> no
20:55 <mwhudson> i know britney/proposed-migration is involved somewhat, but i don't think you mean that?
20:55 <stgraber> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/
20:55 <stgraber> no, ben ^ lets you track the needed rebuilds
20:56 <stgraber> there may be circular dependencies and other complications which require several round of uploads
20:56 * mwhudson bookmarks
20:57 <mwhudson> not a very interesting point in the cycle to be looking at that page i guess :-)
20:58 <stgraber> have you ever done SRUs?
20:58 <mwhudson> yes
20:58 <mwhudson> mostly for gccgo i think
20:58 <mwhudson> (so i didn't do the actual packaging, doko did, but i made patches and filed the bugs and did the verification)
20:58 <stgraber> ok, can you describe the process to me, from upload to the archive to it landing on someone's system?
20:59 <mwhudson> the upload goes to proposed, the bug gets tagged verification-needed, then once that's changed to verifcation-done and 7 days have passed and britney is happy, it migrates to -updates
21:00 <mwhudson> and as updates is enabled by default, everyone should get it next time they update
21:00 <stgraber> just missed two tiny details :)
21:00 <stgraber> 1) the upload is held in the queue for review by the SRU team
21:00 <stgraber> 2) not everyone gets updates at the same time, we phase them
21:01 <stgraber> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/phased-updates.html
21:01 <mwhudson> ah yes, 1) was totally opaque to me for the longest time
21:01 <stgraber> do you know where to look at the current queues?
21:01 <mwhudson> i presume for more user facing things, some staring at errors.ubuntu.com is involved
21:02 <mwhudson> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/+queue
21:02 <stgraber> cool
21:02 <stgraber> are you familiar with backports and can you explain how they different from SRUs?
21:03 <mwhudson> i am loosely familiar, i know the requirements are less stringent about what can get in there, but i don't actually know what the requirements are
21:03 <stgraber> ok, requirements are typically that they must be changed uploads from the source release they come from (backportpackage does that for you) and that they can't break their reverse dependencies
21:03 <mwhudson> the key difference from the user's pov is that you only get them if you ask for them, they don't happen to unsuspecting victims
21:04 <stgraber> cool
21:04 <stgraber> do you know how packages end up being pulled into main and onto installation media and images?
21:05 <mwhudson> the latter is to do with seeds and germinate?
21:05 * mwhudson spots the pun, very very late
21:05 <stgraber> :)
21:05 <stgraber> yeah, so does the former
21:05 <mwhudson> but main is closed under build-depends as well as depends
21:05 <stgraber> do you know where to find the list of packages which should be promoted or demoted by haven't been yet?
21:06 <mwhudson> or at least was, or is right now or something
21:06 <mwhudson> (i know this is changing)
21:06 <mwhudson> um, i know component-mismatches emails get sent to ubuntu-devel all the time
21:06 <stgraber> what's changing is whether packages in main can build-depend on packages which aren't (or aren't yet) in main
21:07 <stgraber> cool, yeah, that's component-mismatches there is also a more comprehensive online report of it with fancy svg and stuff
21:07 <mwhudson> so yeah, a bit of guessing gets me to http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.html
21:07 <stgraber> yep, that one and its matching one for the proposed pocket
21:07 <stgraber> what's needed for a package currently in universe to be moved to main, outside of a friendly archive admin to actually process the move?
21:08 <mwhudson> a MIR and the security team review that involves
21:08 <stgraber> ok
21:08 <stgraber> so we're more than out of time and I think I'm out of questions to ask, anything else the other members may want to ask?
21:08 <bdmurray> and a package subscriber
21:08 <mwhudson> oh yes
21:09 <bdmurray> not me
21:09 <mwhudson> i am that package subscriber for at least one package :)
21:09 <stgraber> yeah, that's one of the tick box in the MIR process, I think it may even ask for a team rather than individual subscriber
21:14 <cyphermox> #vote mwhudson to be granted core-dev
21:14 <meetingology> Please vote on: mwhudson to be granted core-dev
21:14 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
21:14 <stgraber> +1
21:14 <meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
21:14 <bdmurray> +1
21:14 <meetingology> +1 received from bdmurray
21:14 <cyphermox> +1
21:14 <meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
21:17 <cyphermox> micahg: ?
21:21 <micahg> =1
21:21 <micahg> +1
21:21 <meetingology> +1 received from micahg
21:22 <stgraber> mwhudson: congratulations!
21:22 <mwhudson> woo thanks everyone
21:23 <stgraber> cyphermox: close the vote and wrap up the meeting?
21:23 <cyphermox> yep
21:23 <cyphermox> #endvote
21:23 <meetingology> Voting ended on: mwhudson to be granted core-dev
21:23 <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
21:23 <meetingology> Motion carried
21:23 <cyphermox> congrats mwhudson
21:24 <cyphermox> we're way over time, I think it's time we wrap up this meeting, indeed
21:24 <cyphermox> #topic AOB
21:24 <cyphermox> any other things?
21:24 <stgraber> nope, hopefully we'll have a new DMB soon :)
21:26 <cyphermox> yeah, we need to finish restaffing.
21:26 <cyphermox> alright, that's all folks
21:26 <cyphermox> #endmeeting