15:05 <slangasek> #startmeeting
15:05 <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jul  9 15:05:03 2015 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
15:05 <meetingology> 
15:05 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
15:05 <slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
15:05 <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti)
15:05 <slangasek> caribou stgraber bdmurray infinity robru cyphermox pitti slangasek barry sil2100 doko
15:06 <caribou> oh, I get to start
15:06 <slangasek> caribou: yep :)
15:06 <caribou> Bugfix :
15:06 <caribou> - ifenslave ambigous message
15:06 <caribou> * identified root cause, open Debian bug with patch
15:06 <caribou> Crash Dump
15:06 <caribou> - Worked on Kdump enablement cloud-init script
15:06 <caribou> Charm dev
15:06 <caribou> - Developed Kernel Crash Dump subordinate charm
15:06 <caribou> (done)
15:08 <slangasek> ah, stgraber probably not around
15:08 <slangasek> bdrung_work:
15:08 <slangasek> eh
15:08 <slangasek> bdmurray:
15:08 <slangasek> stupid tabcomplete
15:08 <infinity> We might not have a Brian either.
15:09 <slangasek> yes, we indeed might not since I approved his vacation request
15:09 <slangasek> infinity:
15:09 <infinity> Short (3-day) week:
15:09 <infinity> - General SRU/AA work
15:09 <infinity> - Helped apw sort out ubuntu-fan for wily
15:09 <infinity> - Worked with apw on ubuntu-fan SRU proposal
15:09 <infinity> - Worked with rbasak on docker.io SRUs
15:09 <infinity> - Found, debugged, and ushered in a fix for a kernel panic on the arm64 buildds
15:09 <infinity> - Working on LP: #1414818 for IBM
15:09 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 1414818 in opensm (Ubuntu) "Add missing OFED packages for Ubuntu 14.04.2" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1414818
15:09 <infinity> - Identified casper backports needed for 14.04.3 and got them in with apw
15:09 <infinity> - Kernel SRU wrangling for 14.04.3
15:09 <infinity> - Some merges and bugfixes in wily
15:09 <infinity> - Failed to sleep all week
15:09 <infinity> (done)
15:10 <pitti> ssh infinity sleep 28800
15:10 <caribou> sleep: command not found
15:11 <slangasek> pitti: underlying kernel bug, never puts the CPU into anything below C0
15:11 <pitti> robru?
15:11 <slangasek> robru:
15:12 <infinity> slangasek: That's the most accurate nerd analogy for insomnia that I've ever seen.
15:12 <cyphermox> robru might be in C3?
15:13 <slangasek> heh
15:13 <cyphermox> should I?
15:14 <slangasek> cyphermox: go ahead
15:14 <cyphermox> * fixed d-i overlay support (net-retriever, base-installer, apt-setup)
15:14 <cyphermox> * updated sg3-utils (+ added udeb) for QEMU/IPR support for multipath
15:14 <cyphermox> * finished multipath-tools merge
15:14 <cyphermox> * updated partman-multipath, partman-base, hw-detect for naming change
15:14 <cyphermox> * investigated/fixed tgt for proposed migration (blocked multipath-tools)
15:14 <cyphermox> * investigated lava-dispatcher (blocked multipath-tools, skipped)
15:14 <cyphermox> * fix fwupdate FTBFS
15:14 <cyphermox> * SRUs:
15:14 <cyphermox> - debian-installer-utils bug 1402042 (support --- in user-params)
15:14 <ubottu> bug 1402042 in debian-installer-utils (Ubuntu Utopic) "console= parameters need to be added before -- on kernel cmdline" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1402042
15:14 <cyphermox> - udev (systemd) bug 1437375 for trusty (exception for ibmveth MAC)
15:14 <ubottu> bug 1437375 in systemd (Ubuntu Trusty) "[udev] Adding "Austin" adapter to Ubuntu partition take over system network interface" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1437375
15:14 <cyphermox> - partman-auto bug 1461860 for trusty (ppc64el recipe)
15:14 <ubottu> bug 1461860 in partman-auto (Ubuntu Trusty) "Installation scheme based on Separate /home, /usr, /var, and /tmp partitions fail" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1461860
15:14 <cyphermox> * debugging multipath-tools:
15:14 <cyphermox> - bug 1463046: local HDs found as multipath when they shouldn't be
15:14 <ubottu> bug 1463046 in multipath-tools (Ubuntu) "installation of multipath-tools-boot can break boot" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1463046
15:14 <cyphermox> - bug 1468897: skip USB devices
15:14 <ubottu> bug 1468897 in multipath-tools (Ubuntu) "multipath creates binding for Removable(USB) drives" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1468897
15:14 <cyphermox> * investigating iso smoketest failures
15:14 <cyphermox> (done)
15:15 <pitti> autopkgtest cloud:
15:15 <pitti> - britney: Add much simpler AMQP/cloud based autopkgtest triggering, to get rid of lp:auto-package-testing and much indirection+duplication (landed)
15:15 <pitti> - britney: Add autopkgtest result retrieval from swift (MP pending review)
15:15 <pitti> - create swift server mock for writing britney tests
15:15 <pitti> - do britney run for wily, triggering 500 tests; various robustifications and fixes from these
15:15 <pitti> - Rewrite autopkgtest-cloud's swift results retriever to be suitable for inclusion into debci
15:15 <pitti> systemd: package/test 222 (landed now), various bug fixes (#1450009, 1471258)
15:15 <pitti> ecryptfs-utils: Fix broken cryptswap configuration with LVM, clean up on upgrades, prepare SRUs (bug 1453738), fix broken libecryptfs0 shipping libecryptfs.so.1
15:15 <ubottu> bug 1453738 in ecryptfs-utils (Ubuntu Vivid) "installer in LVM mode sets up broken encrypted swap, using duplicate unencrypted swap" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1453738
15:15 <pitti> misc:
15:15 <pitti> - review https://code.launchpad.net/~brian-murray/apport/support-ppa-packages/+merge/263437, almost ready now
15:15 <pitti> - merges: openvpn, policykit-1, ruby-defaults
15:15 <pitti> [END]
15:17 <slangasek> * short week: holiday last Friday, sick yesterday
15:17 <slangasek> * miscellaneous SRU processing
15:17 <slangasek> * helping set up ci train silo for the upcoming gcc 5 transition
15:17 <slangasek> * livecd-rootfs sponsorship to move a scope out of the phone rootfs
15:17 <slangasek> * TB discussions about ubuntu-fan and SRUability
15:17 <slangasek> * discussions around KVM support for ppc64el on 14.04
15:17 <slangasek> * discussions around UEFI capsule update support
15:17 <slangasek> * finished paperwork for new Java hire, who will be starting July 27
15:17 <slangasek> * continuing search for Foundations engineers
15:17 <slangasek> (done)
15:17 <barry> short week due to usa holiday and pto
15:17 <barry> more python 3.5 test rebuilds, with patches going upstream and into debian as appropriate
15:17 <barry> python issue #15014 fixes RFC 4952 AUTH initial response (py3.5 fix for regression breaking packages in the wild)
15:17 <barry> more git-dpm conversion work for dpmt
15:17 <barry> lazr.delegates 2.0.3 (upstream) and 2.0.3-1 (debian) for launchpad related fix
15:17 <barry> zope.interface 4.1.2-1 new upstream and cross build fixes
15:18 <barry> reported LP: #1473093 (checkbox-ng for py3.5)
15:18 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 1473093 in Next Generation Checkbox (CLI) "tests fail on python3.5" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1473093
15:18 <barry> --done--
15:18 <sil2100> o/
15:18 <sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
15:18 <sil2100> - Manually prepare languagepack packages for most important languages
15:18 <sil2100> - Prepare livecd-rootfs for youtube scope removal
15:18 <sil2100> - Coordinate device and custom tarball landings for OTA-5
15:18 <sil2100> - Coordinate landings for OTA-5, image preparations
15:18 <sil2100> - Documenting the new release schedule for OTA upgrades
15:18 <sil2100> - RTM status meetings and discussions
15:18 <sil2100> - Gathering feedback regarding derived vs. overlay
15:18 <sil2100> - Discussions regarding fixing the broken wily language-packs
15:18 <sil2100> - Selective work on triaging the appmenu-qt5 bug with hiding windows
15:18 <sil2100> - Cleanup in assigned bugs
15:18 <sil2100> - Various changes and improvements to commitlog generation infrastructure
15:18 <sil2100> - Discussions about the setup of new channels
15:18 <sil2100> (done)
15:19 <slangasek> doko:
15:19 <doko> - announced the GCC 5 transition
15:19 <doko> - reviewd and fixed 30 GCC 5 ftbfs in Debian, merged to Ubuntu
15:19 <doko> - populated https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/landing-016/+packages
15:19 <doko> - getting angry with unmerged packages since 2013 ... trafficserver
15:19 <doko> - python3.5 beta3
15:19 <doko> (done)
15:20 * infinity checks if trafficserver is his...
15:20 <pitti> unmerged packages> amen
15:20 <infinity> Oh look, it is.
15:20 <infinity> *sigh*
15:21 <infinity> doko: Hint taken. :P
15:21 <doko> ;-P
15:21 <pitti> those are the ones which really drive me away from fixing -proposed stuff in some cases (becoming TIL on even more crappy packages)
15:21 <slangasek> :)
15:22 <infinity> pitti: Yeah, it's a vicous cycle.  Cause you end up TIL, then you don't have enough time for merges, then someone else gets angry with you for not merging, then they get annoyed enough to merge it themselves, then they end up being the one who lags, repeat.
15:22 <slangasek> alrighty - any questions over status?
15:22 <pitti> infinity: heh, yes; we still suffer a lot from the old years where we tossed just about anything into ubuntu that people threw at us..
15:22 <slangasek> fwiw I've asked bdmurray to work on getting better reporting out of MoM so that we can actually see "merges I'm responsible for, sorted by age"
15:23 <barry> bdmurray: can you add "merges i will never get to, let's just be honest about it"?
15:24 <doko> infinity, pitti: would be nice to track autoremovals in unstable, and then have a separate section for these in update_excuses
15:24 <infinity> slangasek: If I could get age out of "grep-merges", that would do it.
15:25 <slangasek> infinity: heh, never heard of 'grep-merges'.  But if the main report would list the age, presumably that would give you this?
15:25 <infinity> doko: Yeah, looking at trafficserver, it probably wants a removal from wily and then a sync after the gcc-5 transition, so it can FTBFS. :P
15:26 <infinity> slangasek: Yeah, not sure where grep-merges pulls from, but I assume it's the same report you're talking about.
15:26 <slangasek> merges.ubuntu.com/main.html etc
15:27 <slangasek> [TOPIC] Team changes
15:28 <slangasek> I mentioned earlier in the meeting that stgraber was probably not around... there's a specific reason for this :)
15:28 <pitti> noooo!
15:28 <slangasek> as many of you have seen, stgraber has been working full time on lxd together with folks in CDO for quite a while now
15:29 <slangasek> this situation is now being formalized - Stéphane is now the LXD technical lead, reporting on the server team!
15:29 <sil2100> Oh no!
15:29 <infinity> And now I'm the shortest member of the team.  This is unacceptable.
15:29 <slangasek> so congratulations to stgraber on the new role, and we wish him well - while making no promises not to continue harrassing him with Foundations questions ;)
15:30 <sil2100> The foundations are cracking!
15:30 <slangasek> this means that, once the paperwork goes through, we will be hiring for not one, but two Foundations engineer positions
15:31 <pitti> infinity: ^ you have a way to rectify that then :)
15:31 <slangasek> so pester all your brilliant and short friends to apply
15:31 <sil2100> hmmm ;)
15:31 <barry> slangasek: is one of those the java dude?
15:31 <slangasek> barry: this would be two, in addition to javadude (whose name is Tiago)
15:31 <barry> oh!  we have a winner!  cool
15:32 <sil2100> Woohoo
15:32 <sil2100> Damn, I'd like to have more time for some system-image server work, grrr
15:33 <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
15:33 <slangasek> anything else this week?
15:34 <pitti> after spending the fourth or so day on cleaning up after "we messed up swap space config in the installer years ago"
15:34 <pitti> I wondered if we should just stop doing it completely -- it's 2015..
15:34 <barry> pitti: yeah, i still see that on some of my machines ;)
15:34 <pitti> kirkland mentioned "swapspace", which dynamically creates swap files on demand on your root partition (or perhaps /var) instead of eternally blocking an entire partition
15:35 <pitti> does anyone have experience with that?
15:35 <slangasek> I don't think "dynamically" creating swap partitions sounds like a great idea to me
15:35 <infinity> pitti: I have no experience with userspace swapfile magic like that, but I might be inclined to agree that switching from partitions to files for desktop installs would be reasonable.
15:35 <infinity> Maybe.
15:35 <pitti> I mean, we need to fix ecryptfs-setup-swap either way
15:36 <slangasek> there was discussion long ago about switching from swap partition to swap file; I don't know why it was never done
15:36 <pitti> but as a matter of fact, everyone who installed with "encrypt my home dir" between perhaps precise and vivid had no swap at all
15:36 <slangasek> pitti: I'm missing context - what's the problem with ecryptfs-setup-swap?
15:36 <pitti> slangasek: there were various bugs in that and ubiquity which prevented having swap space at all, or in the case of LVM having unencryted plus encrypted where the unencrypted one won
15:37 <slangasek> erm?  I thought the desktop LVM+crypt recipe gave you a single encrypted VG and nothing else
15:37 <pitti> i. e. we already seeem to have a non-negligible user base with no swap at all, and not seem to have too many complaints
15:37 <pitti> slangasek: no, not LVM crypt; unencrypted LVM plus "encrypt my home dir" (ecryptfs)
15:38 <slangasek> ah
15:38 <pitti> or just plain simple partitioning plus ecryptfs
15:38 <ogra_> pitti, just keep in mind that no swap at all makes the kernel behave differently ...
15:38 <slangasek> so the decision of whether to enable swap at install time should in no way be based on whether the average user noticed they didn't have swap
15:38 <ogra_> (in case you consider dropping swap altogether)
15:39 <slangasek> the average user shouldn't need to know what swap is, and the decision of whether to enable it for the user should be based on whether it gives the best user experience
15:39 <pitti> ogra_: well, it wasn't an active decision -- those were years old bugs in ecryptfs/ubiquity which only surfaced with the systemd transition
15:39 <barry> is it even possible to go back and fix all those installs that effectively have no swap, say in some kind of update?
15:39 <ogra_> pitti, right, it looked to me you are discussing a future default though
15:39 <pitti> right, so there's various alternatives: only configure swap partition with < 4 GB of RAM
15:39 <pitti> or do away with having to decide about static swap at installer time and do dynamic swap
15:40 <slangasek> pitti: where does this 4GB number come from?  Sounds arbitrary to me :)
15:40 <pitti> ogra_: yes, it made me wonder whether "swap partition" is still a good answer
15:40 <pitti> slangasek: exactly
15:40 <infinity> pitti: I use far more than 4G normally. :P
15:40 <pitti> OTOH, creating 32 GB of swap space on a 16 GB RAM system is just an utter waste
15:40 <pitti> (by the old "twice your RAM" rule of thumb)
15:40 <slangasek> I have 8GB of RAM, and I have a swap partition, and I want a good reason if you're going to take it away ;)
15:40 <pitti> (not sure what partman does, though)
15:40 <infinity> partman-swap is a little smarter than that.
15:40 <slangasek> pitti: that's clearly not the right rule of thumb for high-mem systems, but that means we should fix the rule of thumb, not remove swap
15:41 <infinity> I think it's "twice your RAM up to X, then a set value" or something.
15:41 <pitti> yeah, I'm sure it does, but I wanted to get a feeling what you think about replacing it with dynamic swap files
15:41 <slangasek> pitti: take out the "dynamic" and yes
15:41 <slangasek> any swap file is "dynamic" in the sense that the user can "easily" resize it
15:41 <infinity> I think files are probably the right answer (except maybe for servers, but serious server people tend to write their own recipes anyway).
15:41 <slangasek> but we don't need to support it being dynamic initially
15:41 <pitti> well, "swap file" gets rid of this ever-breaking ecryptfs-setup-swap; but "dynamic" is really half the point here
15:42 <pitti> (FWIW, I don't know what swapfile does exactly, I just got told an hour or so ago by kirkland that it's on-demand in some fashion)
15:42 <infinity> pitti: How does dynamic work?  When we're hitting the wall, does it just add another swapfile, and delete it when we don't need it anymore?
15:42 <pitti> err, "swapspace" is the package, not swapfile
15:42 <slangasek> pitti: I think it'd be a good idea if you chatted with cjwatson to understand what the blockers were for us never having switched to swap files (aside from ENOTIME)
15:43 <pitti> Small, stable system add-on that continuously and automatically adapts
15:43 <infinity> slangasek: I'd guess ENOTIME, and also fragmentation/speed concerns on rotary disks.
15:43 <pitti> available virtual memory space to your actual memory needs.  Claims disk space
15:43 <pitti> for use as swap space when needed; frees it up for use by the filesystem when
15:43 <pitti> not needed.
15:43 <pitti> well, the other thing is I don't want to "own" this project -- I'm oversubscribed already
15:44 <pitti> but since this doesn't seem to be unanimous, I guess I just crawl back into my corner :)
15:44 <pitti> (it really seemed to me like a case of "OMG nobody threw this out yet?")
15:44 <pitti> but if people are still using it, so be it
15:44 <tyhicks> it would be nice to remove swap partition setup goop from ecryptfs-utils
15:45 <tyhicks> (thanks for fixing ecryptfs-setup-swap, pitti :)
15:45 <tyhicks> I don't think we can do away with swap completely
15:45 <pitti> tyhicks: fingers crossed that this is the last bug :)
15:45 <slangasek> pitti: I think there's a consensus for moving to a swap partition.  I think having a *daemon* trying to manage the size of your swap at runtime is crazypants
15:45 <slangasek> sorry, moving to a swap /file/
15:45 <pitti> slangasek: file? ah yes
15:45 <tyhicks> pitti: where would the swapfile be stored? does swapfile handle encryption?
15:46 <pitti> tyhicks: I don't know anything about swapspace, so I don't know
15:46 <pitti> kirkland looked into it some time ago and felt that it was worth taking a look
15:47 <pitti> but if it's anything like a swap file it would just use the underlying fs' encryption
15:47 <tyhicks> but encrypted home is per-user
15:47 <pitti> well, not *that* encryption (ecryptfs)
15:47 <tyhicks> we can't put the swapfile in /home/foo/
15:47 <pitti> e-s-swapspace is cryptsetup
15:47 <tyhicks> ah, ok
15:47 <pitti> no, should probably be in /var/cache or so
15:48 <pitti> or maybe swapspace is even just using unallocated blocks
15:48 <infinity> Obviously, you should just put your swapfile in a tmpfs, so it's zapped on power loss and you don't care about encryption.  Duh.
15:48 <pitti> infinity: that's a *great* idea!
15:48 <infinity> pitti: I KNOW.
15:48 <pitti> what was the name of that? memdouble or so (from DOS times)
15:48 <slangasek> I'm not sure tmpfs has the right semantics for this.  Maybe we should use overlayfs for it
15:48 <infinity> We have that too, it's called zram!
15:48 <infinity> And works quite well.
15:49 <pitti> and then you recursively use it 8 times, problem solved
15:49 <slangasek> that way we only have to store the delta of the memory
15:49 <pitti> ok, I think we're through with this discussion :)
15:49 <tyhicks> "tmpfs puts everything into the kernel internal caches and grows and
15:49 <tyhicks> shrinks to accommodate the files it contains and is able to swap
15:49 <tyhicks> unneeded pages out to swap space."
15:49 <tyhicks> https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/filesystems/tmpfs.txt
15:49 <tyhicks> infinity: I know you were joking, but that would make for a fun test :)
15:50 <infinity> tyhicks: Yeahp, and swapping to yourself is awesome.
15:50 <slangasek> #endmeeting