== Meeting information ==
 * #ubuntu-meeting Meeting, 16 Apr at 17:00 — 17:57 UTC
 * Full logs at [[http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-04-16-17.00.log.html]]



== Meeting summary ==

=== Scheduling the next CC catch ups ===
The discussion about "Scheduling the next CC catch ups" started at 17:02.


=== Catching up with the IRC Council ===
The discussion about "Catching up with the IRC Council" started at 17:17.


=== Any other business ===
The discussion about "Any other business" started at 17:53.




== Vote results ==




== Done items ==

 * (none)



== People present (lines said) ==

 * elfy (95)
 * dholbach (87)
 * elky (43)
 * mhall119 (17)
 * Pici (10)
 * cprofitt (9)
 * meetingology (5)



== Full Log ==


 17:00 <dholbach> #startmeeting

 17:00 <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr 16 17:00:24 2015 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.

 17:00 <meetingology> 

 17:00 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick

 17:00 <dholbach> #chair elfy mhall119

 17:00 <meetingology> Current chairs: dholbach elfy mhall119

 17:00 <dholbach> Do you have any agenda items you'd like to propose?

 17:00 <elfy> yep

 17:01 <dholbach> I'd like us to set up a schedule for the catch ups, which should be quick I assume

 17:01 <elfy> that would be the same one :D

 17:01 <elfy> and ...ish

 17:01 <elfy> new teams about

 17:01 <dholbach> and maybe do a quick review of which boards/councils have members expiring soon

 17:02 <dholbach> any other items?

 17:02 <elfy> sort out the next catch ups perhaps

 17:02 <dholbach> that sounds fair to me :)

 17:02 <dholbach> #topic Scheduling the next CC catch ups

 17:02 <dholbach> shall we note it all down on http://pad.ubuntu.com/ZQTluJERI3?

 17:02 <elfy> works for me

 17:03 <dholbach> brilliant

 17:04 <elfy> mate/edubuntu swap *shrug*

 17:04 <elfy> though once LTS gets close - we'll want to add them back perhaps

 17:04 <mhall119> instead of combining Core Apps and Phone, how about having separate check-ins with those teams working on core, desktop and phone?

 17:05 <elfy> mhall119: make the change :) makes sense

 17:06 <mhall119> do you think we can do all three in one hour's meeting?

 17:06 <elfy> mhall119: well

 17:06 <cprofitt> hello

 17:06 <dholbach> #chair cprofitt

 17:06 <meetingology> Current chairs: cprofitt dholbach elfy mhall119

 17:06 <dholbach> cprofitt, we're scheduling catch ups for the new cycle: http://pad.ubuntu.com/ZQTluJERI3

 17:07 <dholbach> mhall119, I just added a new date at the bottom - feel free to spread teams out if necessary

 17:07 <elfy> if they are *that* different - split them to different weeks - also gives people who can only drop by irregularly half a chance

 17:08 <elfy> mhall119: ^^

 17:08 <dholbach> I'm happy either way - I don't have a strong preference when to have Core Apps vs Phone people there

 17:08 <mhall119> elfy: they are different teams in Canonical, but they'll probably all have the same issues if any

 17:08 <elfy> I'd much prefer to give a team the whole half a session each

 17:08 <elfy> mhall119: that may be so, but

 17:09 <elfy> the community might have different points - and people are free to ask things here I guessed

 17:09 <cprofitt> I would prefer to give a half session to each as well.

 17:10 <elfy> makes sense

 17:10 <elfy> at the least

 17:10 <dholbach> I just added more dates

 17:10 <dholbach> we can spread out if we want

 17:10 <cprofitt> having too much time is better than not having enough for a team IMHO

 17:10 <elfy> yep

 17:10 <dholbach> and we can always wrap early if all is well and there's nothing to talk about :)

 17:11 <elfy> we can always rethink the cycle after - which IS the pre-LTS one

 17:11 <elky> Hi. i noticed yesterday that dholbach mailed the irc council about a catchup a while back but i don't think it was confirmed or anything. I'm guessing by that pad that it's not still on?

 17:11 <mhall119> elfy: my guess is that the community would be more uniform across those three than Canonical employees

 17:11 <mhall119> but that's just my guess

 17:11 <dholbach> elky, it was scheduled, but in the end I can't remember if anyone showed up

 17:11 <elfy> mhall119: that is fine - but I see no real reason to not try it

 17:11 <dholbach> elky, or one person showed up belated ... or something

 17:12 <elky> dholbach: well... you tried to schedule one for today and now

 17:12 <elky> so i showed up now :P

 17:12 <dholbach> schedule for today?

 17:12 <dholbach> IRC Council 5th March

 17:12 <elky> it was an email you sent

 17:12 <dholbach> oooooooooh!

 17:12 <elfy> elky: I guess something was lost there, however - we've got time if you want to talk to us

 17:12 <elky> trying to schedule for now

 17:13 <dholbach> sorry about that

 17:13 <dholbach> now I get it

 17:13 * elfy always has time for some tabfail sessions :D

 17:13 <dholbach> we said: "nobody showed up, let's reschedule" and I picked a date

 17:13 <elfy> but

 17:13 <dholbach> but failed to update the agenda page

 17:13 <dholbach> ... and maybe nobody confirmed the date

 17:13 <elfy> if you want to talk to us now elky - we will :)

 17:13 <elky> elfy: dholbach: well, basically we're still regrouping. we're currently trying to find a new meeting time that will actually work.

 17:14 <dholbach> ok... shall we wrap up the scheduling discussion?

 17:14 <dholbach> then move on to IRC business? :)

 17:14 <elfy> dholbach: just put it on back burner

 17:14 <dholbach> elfy, cprofitt, mhall119: any more points on the catch up schedule? or shall I just mail it to the CC later on, so everyone can have a look at it and make final changes before we announce it?

 17:15 <elfy> elfy: I guess it's been a bit of a *time* over there, I get hints here and there

 17:15 <elfy> dholbach: how about moving back to it if we've time?

 17:15 <elky> dholbach: i understand the motivation, i just didn't want you guys to be stood up again if the topic did happen :)

 17:16 <elky> but i'm here now, so make of that what you will

 17:16 <elfy> elky: I was not talking to myself but you ^^

 17:16 <dholbach> elfy, ok... I just felt that we were close to resolving it as far as we can now and could move on if we agreed, but yeah, sure

 17:16 <elky> elfy: hehe sorry still waking up

 17:16 <elfy> really should really re-nick as hobgoblin for a while :D

 17:16 <elky> hehehe

 17:17 <dholbach> ok....

 17:17 <dholbach> #topic Catching up with the IRC Council

 17:17 <dholbach> hey elky - thanks a lot for showing up :)

 17:17 <elky> not a problem

 17:17 <dholbach> how are you doing? how's life in the IRC world? :)

 17:18 <elky> so as i said before, we're still regrouping and working out our schedule to fit in with the current members

 17:18 <dholbach> how far are the members spread out?

 17:19 <elky> one in finland, the rest of us across the US

 17:19 <elky> (i'm in the US now)

 17:19 <elfy> so again the Euro/US bias

 17:19 <dholbach> oh wow, I had no idea :)

 17:19 <elky> we have people who can't irc from work though, which complicates things a lot

 17:20 <elfy> really hard to deal with that I guess

 17:20 <elky> that's our biggest issue

 17:20 <elfy> and that for sure

 17:20 <elfy> which - the work or bias?

 17:20 <elky> we're considering moving to a weekend meeting, but we're yet to confirm a time

 17:20 <dholbach> how often are you planning to meet as the IRC Council?

 17:20 <dholbach> or how often did you meet in the past?

 17:20 <elky> elfy: the irc restriction at workplaces

 17:20 <elfy> right

 17:21 <elky> dholbach: the meeting schedule is monthly, which is why it's taking a while to get something sorted i guess

 17:21 <elfy> elky: but if the location bias could be looked at later - less of an issue?

 17:22 <elfy> elky: any reason to have monthly meets?

 17:22 <elky> elfy: i don't think location bias is one that can be fixed easily.

 17:22 <elky> elfy: as opposed to?

 17:22 <dholbach> I'm not sure if it helps, but can "day to day tasks on the IRC Council", "IRC Council meeting times" and "helping out as an IRC member/op/helper" be separated somehow?

 17:22 <dholbach> a bunch of things could maybe be discussed via mail as well

 17:23 <elfy> elky: we (FC) set up monthlies, ended up as pointless

 17:23 <elky> elfy: in that you have no meetings now?

 17:23 <elfy> we dealt with the immediate issues as and when

 17:23 <elky> that would be nice, but that wasn't the expectation put on the council in the past

 17:23 <elfy> then have now moved to quarterly

 17:23 <dholbach> elfy, I guess it depends on how approachable you as a council or board are... or how well people in your community understand they can contact you

 17:24 <dholbach> a meeting as "another opportunity" can help, but yeah, it can be pointless too :)

 17:24 <elfy> elky: well - rules are great in a workplace, but as volunteers the expectation should be that things just woirk

 17:24 <elfy> dholbach: yea for sure

 17:24 <elky> elfy: i'm glad to see this shift in attitude :)

 17:25 <elfy> elky: first shift on CC, years at forum ;)_

 17:25 <elfy> I am ALWAYS happy to talk to anyone at all

 17:25 <mhall119> sorry everyone, home-life interruption, I'm back again

 17:26 <elky> dholbach: in terms of the issues we generally deal with, generally a meeting would be awkward and unfair on someone -- like a public humiliation

 17:26 <elfy> though if it is one of those 'trolly' things, move it to official

 17:26 <elfy> elky: the same - we just would not do that (FC)

 17:27 <elfy> elky: how about the IRCC and FC actaully do that mad thing

 17:27 <elfy> talk to each other :D

 17:27 <elky> that'd be awesome indeed

 17:27 <dholbach> I guess it depends what you need to talk about

 17:27 <elfy> I am sure we could help each other in how we deal with things

 17:27 <dholbach> if you want to bring up a process improvement

 17:27 <elfy> dholbach: things like

 17:27 <dholbach> or applying as a member

 17:27 <elfy> do we NEED to meet monthyl

 17:27 <dholbach> that might be suitable for an IRC Council

 17:27 <dholbach> meeting

 17:28 <elfy> well - membership process - I bet we could learn from each other

 17:28 <dholbach> it could also help to review work items or stuff

 17:28 <elfy> but the minutae - less so

 17:28 <elky> dholbach: the stuff we're responsible for, is way too time sensitive to wait a month.,

 17:28 <elky> or even a week reallt

 17:29 <dholbach> elky, I wasn't trying to say that you should wait until the next meeting

 17:29 <elfy> more a sort of 'well how do you as a group work?  thing

 17:29 <elfy> elky: exactly - we are lucky

 17:29 <elfy> we get a day(ish)

 17:29 <dholbach> sometimes it helps to make an appointment, come together as a group and take time to discuss something

 17:29 <dholbach> (outside the day to day business)

 17:30 <elfy> dholbach: it really does not work like that - sorry ;)

 17:30 <dholbach> but I'm not trying to impose

 17:30 <mhall119> especially if you spend the previous week/month jotting down topics in an agenda

 17:30 <elky> dholbach: we haven't needed to do that in the past few months, but yes that has happened in the past.

 17:30 <dholbach> right

 17:30 <elfy> elky: I'll mail you with the FC hat

 17:30 <elky> elfy: cool

 17:31 <dholbach> and apart from meeting times... how are things going there? :)

 17:31 <elfy> heh

 17:31 <elky> relatively drama free so far this year

 17:32 <elfy> \o/

 17:32 <elky> which is a nice change of pace. last year burned a councillor or two out, so yes.

 17:32 <dholbach> do you have enough helpers in the channels?

 17:33 <Pici> Sorry I'm late, work stuff. (reads scrollback quickly)

 17:33 <elfy> hi Pici

 17:33 <elky> we seem to be ok at the moment, but i believe we have some applications to look at anyway

 17:33 <elfy> that's great

 17:36 <dholbach> cool

 17:36 <dholbach> how about people who applied as Ubuntu members through IRC contributions?

 17:36 <mhall119> elfy: is there any particular change that you think contributed to this being a drama-free year?

 17:36 <mhall119> something we can maybe roll out to other parts of the community

 17:36 <dholbach> I'm asking because we noticed in other teams that there's a lot of people who could apply, but didn't :)

 17:37 <elfy> \o/ I think that ^^ was for elky :D

 17:37 <elky> mhall119: no, last year was quite exceptional. i don't recommend having that drama so that the next year is an improvement

 17:37 <elfy> dholbach: we see the same thing

 17:37 <mhall119> elky: yes, this elfy/elky thing is killing my brain

 17:37 <elky> :D

 17:38 <elfy> :D

 17:38 <elfy> who said that !!!

 17:38 <dholbach> ouch :)

 17:38 <elky> we break brains in #xubuntu* all the timne

 17:38 <elfy> annnnnnnnd ....

 17:38 <elfy> you owe me a clean screen ...

 17:38 <elky> haha

 17:39 <cprofitt> mhall119: you can't tell the difference bewtween and elf and an alk?

 17:39 <cprofitt> elk?

 17:39 <elky> dholbach: i can't remember the last time someone applied through the ircc for membership, but it's a small team in comparison to even some loco teams

 17:40 <dholbach> right

 17:40 <mhall119> cprofitt: I don't think I've every seen either, to be honest

 17:40 <cprofitt> lol

 17:40 <Pici> We have a lot of people seeking help pass through, but a smaller community of helpers.

 17:40 <dholbach> I think we should all try to encourage folks who haven't applied yet :)

 17:40 <elfy> hah

 17:40 <cprofitt> the forums had to work at having people apply via the forums for Ubuntu membership

 17:40 <dholbach> I should add a post-it note to my laptop screen about that

 17:40 <cprofitt> do IRC folks know that it is a potential route?

 17:41 <elfy> dholbach: seriously - for sure - supporters deserve membership

 17:41 <elky> yes

 17:41 <dholbach> cprofitt, there's a process and it's documented on the wiki, but that probably doesn't answer your question :)

 17:41 <elky> they do know. most of the irc team are members as far as i know

 17:41 <mhall119> elky: how are they told about it?

 17:41 <dholbach> elky, that's good to hear :)

 17:41 <elfy> elky: we kind of did a bit more over forum side

 17:42 <elfy> I'l try and summarise the whole 'how we do it'

 17:42 <elky> elfy: at one point, the irc team required membership to be op, so i think there was a difference in the population there

 17:42 <elfy> yea

 17:42 <Pici> Usually it comes up because someone notices that they aren't a member, and then the suggestion to become one goes on and then we can initiate the process.

 17:42 <cprofitt> dholbach: the process being documented is a good start, but I know the forums had to really encourage people to get the process started.

 17:43 <dholbach> yeah

 17:43 <elfy> I think, and this might be up for debate

 17:43 <elfy> that criteria needs to at least 'look' or 'read' easier

 17:44 <elfy> many people have said to me they would 'fail'

 17:44 <elfy> their words

 17:44 <Pici> :/

 17:44 <elky> guys, i need to go of and do something else now, can we wrap this topic? or pici can take over?

 17:44 <elfy> elky: go do life stuff - thanks

 17:45 <elky> thanks guys, one less thing on the todo list :)

 17:45 <elfy> I will be in contact withe the IRCC

 17:45 <dholbach> cool

 17:45 <elfy> as FC

 17:45 <Pici> Okay :)

 17:45 <dholbach> is there anything the IRC Council could generally need help with? or anything the CC could do?

 17:45 <elfy> but yea Pici :/

 17:45 <elfy> people should not feel that way

 17:46 <Pici> dholbach: I'm not sure we need anything as of yet.  Like elky said, the drama has been very low recently.

 17:46 <dholbach> excellent - thanks a lot for all your hard work!

 17:46 <dholbach> mhall119 is going to be in touch with you quite soon again I guess :)

 17:47 <dholbach> or did you guys talk about UOS channels already? :)

 17:47 <mhall119> dholbach: I haven't, I don't know which of us was tasked with getting UOS channels setup

 17:47 <Pici> Sounds like it was you ;)

 17:47 <dholbach> I can't remember either - I guess we're going to figure it out

 17:48 <Pici> Just poke us whenever you're ready and we'll do what needs to be done

 17:48 <dholbach> <3

 17:48 <dholbach> cprofitt, elfy, mhall119: do you have any more questions for Pici and the IRC folks? :)

 17:48 <mhall119> nope, it sounds like things are going well which is an improvement from before

 17:48 <elfy> none yet

 17:48 <mhall119> so I'm quite happy

 17:48 <Pici> yay

 17:49 <elfy> I will do as I said and mail you as FC hat - with what we do and how

 17:49 <dholbach> brilliant

 17:49 <dholbach> thanks a lot Pici and elky! :)

 17:49 <Pici> np :)

 17:49 <elfy> I would love for the IRCC to say some "try this one ..."

 17:50 <dholbach> elfy, regarding the catch-up schedule... did you have anything else you wanted to talk about or shall I send it out for a sanity check of the rest of the gang as a next step?

 17:50 <elfy> anyway - thanks elky Pici

 17:51 <elfy> dholbach: send it to list, but was mostly about making sure no-shows had reason

 17:51 <elfy> and people like Mate - new - were added in

 17:52 <elfy> good to go here

 17:52 <dholbach> elfy, erm... do you mean by "no-shows had reason" checking if the teams excused themselves from the meetings?

 17:52 <mhall119> thanks elky and Pici for coming

 17:52 <dholbach> my brain is a bit slow at processing English today it seems

 17:53 <dholbach> if all's well, I'll just mail out the schedule in a bit :)

 17:53 <mhall119> dholbach: Texas accents have that affect

 17:53 <dholbach> jetlag too! :)

 17:53 <dholbach> I'd be happy to look over the expiry dates of all councils/boards again as well to help with the planning

 17:53 <dholbach> #topic Any other business

 17:54 <elfy> dholbach: yea I did :)

 17:54 <dholbach> go ahead

 17:54 <elfy> or rather - they might be LTS only

 17:55 <elfy> dholbach: I've got time tomorrow to at least try and contact edubuntu etc

 17:55 <dholbach> cool

 17:55 <elfy> unless you mean mail schedule to CC to double check

 17:56 <elfy> in which case - go ahead

 17:56 <dholbach> oh... I just sent it over for review

 17:56 <dholbach> :)

 17:57 <elfy> yep, just got it :D

 17:57 <elfy> #endmeeting



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