17:00 <dholbach> #startmeeting
17:00 <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr 16 17:00:24 2015 UTC.  The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
17:00 <meetingology> 
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17:00 <dholbach> #chair elfy mhall119
17:00 <meetingology> Current chairs: dholbach elfy mhall119
17:00 <dholbach> Do you have any agenda items you'd like to propose?
17:00 <elfy> yep
17:01 <dholbach> I'd like us to set up a schedule for the catch ups, which should be quick I assume
17:01 <elfy> that would be the same one :D
17:01 <elfy> and ...ish
17:01 <elfy> new teams about
17:01 <dholbach> and maybe do a quick review of which boards/councils have members expiring soon
17:02 <dholbach> any other items?
17:02 <elfy> sort out the next catch ups perhaps
17:02 <dholbach> that sounds fair to me :)
17:02 <dholbach> #topic Scheduling the next CC catch ups
17:02 <dholbach> shall we note it all down on http://pad.ubuntu.com/ZQTluJERI3?
17:02 <elfy> works for me
17:03 <dholbach> brilliant
17:04 <elfy> mate/edubuntu swap *shrug*
17:04 <elfy> though once LTS gets close - we'll want to add them back perhaps
17:04 <mhall119> instead of combining Core Apps and Phone, how about having separate check-ins with those teams working on core, desktop and phone?
17:05 <elfy> mhall119: make the change :) makes sense
17:06 <mhall119> do you think we can do all three in one hour's meeting?
17:06 <elfy> mhall119: well
17:06 <cprofitt> hello
17:06 <dholbach> #chair cprofitt
17:06 <meetingology> Current chairs: cprofitt dholbach elfy mhall119
17:06 <dholbach> cprofitt, we're scheduling catch ups for the new cycle: http://pad.ubuntu.com/ZQTluJERI3
17:07 <dholbach> mhall119, I just added a new date at the bottom - feel free to spread teams out if necessary
17:07 <elfy> if they are *that* different - split them to different weeks - also gives people who can only drop by irregularly half a chance
17:08 <elfy> mhall119: ^^
17:08 <dholbach> I'm happy either way - I don't have a strong preference when to have Core Apps vs Phone people there
17:08 <mhall119> elfy: they are different teams in Canonical, but they'll probably all have the same issues if any
17:08 <elfy> I'd much prefer to give a team the whole half a session each
17:08 <elfy> mhall119: that may be so, but
17:09 <elfy> the community might have different points - and people are free to ask things here I guessed
17:09 <cprofitt> I would prefer to give a half session to each as well.
17:10 <elfy> makes sense
17:10 <elfy> at the least
17:10 <dholbach> I just added more dates
17:10 <dholbach> we can spread out if we want
17:10 <cprofitt> having too much time is better than not having enough for a team IMHO
17:10 <elfy> yep
17:10 <dholbach> and we can always wrap early if all is well and there's nothing to talk about :)
17:11 <elfy> we can always rethink the cycle after - which IS the pre-LTS one
17:11 <elky> Hi. i noticed yesterday that dholbach mailed the irc council about a catchup a while back but i don't think it was confirmed or anything. I'm guessing by that pad that it's not still on?
17:11 <mhall119> elfy: my guess is that the community would be more uniform across those three than Canonical employees
17:11 <mhall119> but that's just my guess
17:11 <dholbach> elky, it was scheduled, but in the end I can't remember if anyone showed up
17:11 <elfy> mhall119: that is fine - but I see no real reason to not try it
17:11 <dholbach> elky, or one person showed up belated ... or something
17:12 <elky> dholbach: well... you tried to schedule one for today and now
17:12 <elky> so i showed up now :P
17:12 <dholbach> schedule for today?
17:12 <dholbach> IRC Council 5th March
17:12 <elky> it was an email you sent
17:12 <dholbach> oooooooooh!
17:12 <elfy> elky: I guess something was lost there, however - we've got time if you want to talk to us
17:12 <elky> trying to schedule for now
17:13 <dholbach> sorry about that
17:13 <dholbach> now I get it
17:13 * elfy always has time for some tabfail sessions :D
17:13 <dholbach> we said: "nobody showed up, let's reschedule" and I picked a date
17:13 <elfy> but
17:13 <dholbach> but failed to update the agenda page
17:13 <dholbach> ... and maybe nobody confirmed the date
17:13 <elfy> if you want to talk to us now elky - we will :)
17:13 <elky> elfy: dholbach: well, basically we're still regrouping. we're currently trying to find a new meeting time that will actually work.
17:14 <dholbach> ok... shall we wrap up the scheduling discussion?
17:14 <dholbach> then move on to IRC business? :)
17:14 <elfy> dholbach: just put it on back burner
17:14 <dholbach> elfy, cprofitt, mhall119: any more points on the catch up schedule? or shall I just mail it to the CC later on, so everyone can have a look at it and make final changes before we announce it?
17:15 <elfy> elfy: I guess it's been a bit of a *time* over there, I get hints here and there
17:15 <elfy> dholbach: how about moving back to it if we've time?
17:15 <elky> dholbach: i understand the motivation, i just didn't want you guys to be stood up again if the topic did happen :)
17:16 <elky> but i'm here now, so make of that what you will
17:16 <elfy> elky: I was not talking to myself but you ^^
17:16 <dholbach> elfy, ok... I just felt that we were close to resolving it as far as we can now and could move on if we agreed, but yeah, sure
17:16 <elky> elfy: hehe sorry still waking up
17:16 <elfy> really should really re-nick as hobgoblin for a while :D
17:16 <elky> hehehe
17:17 <dholbach> ok....
17:17 <dholbach> #topic Catching up with the IRC Council
17:17 <dholbach> hey elky - thanks a lot for showing up :)
17:17 <elky> not a problem
17:17 <dholbach> how are you doing? how's life in the IRC world? :)
17:18 <elky> so as i said before, we're still regrouping and working out our schedule to fit in with the current members
17:18 <dholbach> how far are the members spread out?
17:19 <elky> one in finland, the rest of us across the US
17:19 <elky> (i'm in the US now)
17:19 <elfy> so again the Euro/US bias
17:19 <dholbach> oh wow, I had no idea :)
17:19 <elky> we have people who can't irc from work though, which complicates things a lot
17:20 <elfy> really hard to deal with that I guess
17:20 <elky> that's our biggest issue
17:20 <elfy> and that for sure
17:20 <elfy> which - the work or bias?
17:20 <elky> we're considering moving to a weekend meeting, but we're yet to confirm a time
17:20 <dholbach> how often are you planning to meet as the IRC Council?
17:20 <dholbach> or how often did you meet in the past?
17:20 <elky> elfy: the irc restriction at workplaces
17:20 <elfy> right
17:21 <elky> dholbach: the meeting schedule is monthly, which is why it's taking a while to get something sorted i guess
17:21 <elfy> elky: but if the location bias could be looked at later - less of an issue?
17:22 <elfy> elky: any reason to have monthly meets?
17:22 <elky> elfy: i don't think location bias is one that can be fixed easily.
17:22 <elky> elfy: as opposed to?
17:22 <dholbach> I'm not sure if it helps, but can "day to day tasks on the IRC Council", "IRC Council meeting times" and "helping out as an IRC member/op/helper" be separated somehow?
17:22 <dholbach> a bunch of things could maybe be discussed via mail as well
17:23 <elfy> elky: we (FC) set up monthlies, ended up as pointless
17:23 <elky> elfy: in that you have no meetings now?
17:23 <elfy> we dealt with the immediate issues as and when
17:23 <elky> that would be nice, but that wasn't the expectation put on the council in the past
17:23 <elfy> then have now moved to quarterly
17:23 <dholbach> elfy, I guess it depends on how approachable you as a council or board are... or how well people in your community understand they can contact you
17:24 <dholbach> a meeting as "another opportunity" can help, but yeah, it can be pointless too :)
17:24 <elfy> elky: well - rules are great in a workplace, but as volunteers the expectation should be that things just woirk
17:24 <elfy> dholbach: yea for sure
17:24 <elky> elfy: i'm glad to see this shift in attitude :)
17:25 <elfy> elky: first shift on CC, years at forum ;)_
17:25 <elfy> I am ALWAYS happy to talk to anyone at all
17:25 <mhall119> sorry everyone, home-life interruption, I'm back again
17:26 <elky> dholbach: in terms of the issues we generally deal with, generally a meeting would be awkward and unfair on someone -- like a public humiliation
17:26 <elfy> though if it is one of those 'trolly' things, move it to official
17:26 <elfy> elky: the same - we just would not do that (FC)
17:27 <elfy> elky: how about the IRCC and FC actaully do that mad thing
17:27 <elfy> talk to each other :D
17:27 <elky> that'd be awesome indeed
17:27 <dholbach> I guess it depends what you need to talk about
17:27 <elfy> I am sure we could help each other in how we deal with things
17:27 <dholbach> if you want to bring up a process improvement
17:27 <elfy> dholbach: things like
17:27 <dholbach> or applying as a member
17:27 <elfy> do we NEED to meet monthyl
17:27 <dholbach> that might be suitable for an IRC Council
17:27 <dholbach> meeting
17:28 <elfy> well - membership process - I bet we could learn from each other
17:28 <dholbach> it could also help to review work items or stuff
17:28 <elfy> but the minutae - less so
17:28 <elky> dholbach: the stuff we're responsible for, is way too time sensitive to wait a month.,
17:28 <elky> or even a week reallt
17:29 <dholbach> elky, I wasn't trying to say that you should wait until the next meeting
17:29 <elfy> more a sort of 'well how do you as a group work?  thing
17:29 <elfy> elky: exactly - we are lucky
17:29 <elfy> we get a day(ish)
17:29 <dholbach> sometimes it helps to make an appointment, come together as a group and take time to discuss something
17:29 <dholbach> (outside the day to day business)
17:30 <elfy> dholbach: it really does not work like that - sorry ;)
17:30 <dholbach> but I'm not trying to impose
17:30 <mhall119> especially if you spend the previous week/month jotting down topics in an agenda
17:30 <elky> dholbach: we haven't needed to do that in the past few months, but yes that has happened in the past.
17:30 <dholbach> right
17:30 <elfy> elky: I'll mail you with the FC hat
17:30 <elky> elfy: cool
17:31 <dholbach> and apart from meeting times... how are things going there? :)
17:31 <elfy> heh
17:31 <elky> relatively drama free so far this year
17:32 <elfy> \o/
17:32 <elky> which is a nice change of pace. last year burned a councillor or two out, so yes.
17:32 <dholbach> do you have enough helpers in the channels?
17:33 <Pici> Sorry I'm late, work stuff. (reads scrollback quickly)
17:33 <elfy> hi Pici
17:33 <elky> we seem to be ok at the moment, but i believe we have some applications to look at anyway
17:33 <elfy> that's great
17:36 <dholbach> cool
17:36 <dholbach> how about people who applied as Ubuntu members through IRC contributions?
17:36 <mhall119> elfy: is there any particular change that you think contributed to this being a drama-free year?
17:36 <mhall119> something we can maybe roll out to other parts of the community
17:36 <dholbach> I'm asking because we noticed in other teams that there's a lot of people who could apply, but didn't :)
17:37 <elfy> \o/ I think that ^^ was for elky :D
17:37 <elky> mhall119: no, last year was quite exceptional. i don't recommend having that drama so that the next year is an improvement
17:37 <elfy> dholbach: we see the same thing
17:37 <mhall119> elky: yes, this elfy/elky thing is killing my brain
17:37 <elky> :D
17:38 <elfy> :D
17:38 <elfy> who said that !!!
17:38 <dholbach> ouch :)
17:38 <elky> we break brains in #xubuntu* all the timne
17:38 <elfy> annnnnnnnd ....
17:38 <elfy> you owe me a clean screen ...
17:38 <elky> haha
17:39 <cprofitt> mhall119: you can't tell the difference bewtween and elf and an alk?
17:39 <cprofitt> elk?
17:39 <elky> dholbach: i can't remember the last time someone applied through the ircc for membership, but it's a small team in comparison to even some loco teams
17:40 <dholbach> right
17:40 <mhall119> cprofitt: I don't think I've every seen either, to be honest
17:40 <cprofitt> lol
17:40 <Pici> We have a lot of people seeking help pass through, but a smaller community of helpers.
17:40 <dholbach> I think we should all try to encourage folks who haven't applied yet :)
17:40 <elfy> hah
17:40 <cprofitt> the forums had to work at having people apply via the forums for Ubuntu membership
17:40 <dholbach> I should add a post-it note to my laptop screen about that
17:40 <cprofitt> do IRC folks know that it is a potential route?
17:41 <elfy> dholbach: seriously - for sure - supporters deserve membership
17:41 <elky> yes
17:41 <dholbach> cprofitt, there's a process and it's documented on the wiki, but that probably doesn't answer your question :)
17:41 <elky> they do know. most of the irc team are members as far as i know
17:41 <mhall119> elky: how are they told about it?
17:41 <dholbach> elky, that's good to hear :)
17:41 <elfy> elky: we kind of did a bit more over forum side
17:42 <elfy> I'l try and summarise the whole 'how we do it'
17:42 <elky> elfy: at one point, the irc team required membership to be op, so i think there was a difference in the population there
17:42 <elfy> yea
17:42 <Pici> Usually it comes up because someone notices that they aren't a member, and then the suggestion to become one goes on and then we can initiate the process.
17:42 <cprofitt> dholbach: the process being documented is a good start, but I know the forums had to really encourage people to get the process started.
17:43 <dholbach> yeah
17:43 <elfy> I think, and this might be up for debate
17:43 <elfy> that criteria needs to at least 'look' or 'read' easier
17:44 <elfy> many people have said to me they would 'fail'
17:44 <elfy> their words
17:44 <Pici> :/
17:44 <elky> guys, i need to go of and do something else now, can we wrap this topic? or pici can take over?
17:44 <elfy> elky: go do life stuff - thanks
17:45 <elky> thanks guys, one less thing on the todo list :)
17:45 <elfy> I will be in contact withe the IRCC
17:45 <dholbach> cool
17:45 <elfy> as FC
17:45 <Pici> Okay :)
17:45 <dholbach> is there anything the IRC Council could generally need help with? or anything the CC could do?
17:45 <elfy> but yea Pici :/
17:45 <elfy> people should not feel that way
17:46 <Pici> dholbach: I'm not sure we need anything as of yet.  Like elky said, the drama has been very low recently.
17:46 <dholbach> excellent - thanks a lot for all your hard work!
17:46 <dholbach> mhall119 is going to be in touch with you quite soon again I guess :)
17:47 <dholbach> or did you guys talk about UOS channels already? :)
17:47 <mhall119> dholbach: I haven't, I don't know which of us was tasked with getting UOS channels setup
17:47 <Pici> Sounds like it was you ;)
17:47 <dholbach> I can't remember either - I guess we're going to figure it out
17:48 <Pici> Just poke us whenever you're ready and we'll do what needs to be done
17:48 <dholbach> <3
17:48 <dholbach> cprofitt, elfy, mhall119: do you have any more questions for Pici and the IRC folks? :)
17:48 <mhall119> nope, it sounds like things are going well which is an improvement from before
17:48 <elfy> none yet
17:48 <mhall119> so I'm quite happy
17:48 <Pici> yay
17:49 <elfy> I will do as I said and mail you as FC hat - with what we do and how
17:49 <dholbach> brilliant
17:49 <dholbach> thanks a lot Pici and elky! :)
17:49 <Pici> np :)
17:49 <elfy> I would love for the IRCC to say some "try this one ..."
17:50 <dholbach> elfy, regarding the catch-up schedule... did you have anything else you wanted to talk about or shall I send it out for a sanity check of the rest of the gang as a next step?
17:50 <elfy> anyway - thanks elky Pici
17:51 <elfy> dholbach: send it to list, but was mostly about making sure no-shows had reason
17:51 <elfy> and people like Mate - new - were added in
17:52 <elfy> good to go here
17:52 <dholbach> elfy, erm... do you mean by "no-shows had reason" checking if the teams excused themselves from the meetings?
17:52 <mhall119> thanks elky and Pici for coming
17:52 <dholbach> my brain is a bit slow at processing English today it seems
17:53 <dholbach> if all's well, I'll just mail out the schedule in a bit :)
17:53 <mhall119> dholbach: Texas accents have that affect
17:53 <dholbach> jetlag too! :)
17:53 <dholbach> I'd be happy to look over the expiry dates of all councils/boards again as well to help with the planning
17:53 <dholbach> #topic Any other business
17:54 <elfy> dholbach: yea I did :)
17:54 <dholbach> go ahead
17:54 <elfy> or rather - they might be LTS only
17:55 <elfy> dholbach: I've got time tomorrow to at least try and contact edubuntu etc
17:55 <dholbach> cool
17:55 <elfy> unless you mean mail schedule to CC to double check
17:56 <elfy> in which case - go ahead
17:56 <dholbach> oh... I just sent it over for review
17:56 <dholbach> :)
17:57 <elfy> yep, just got it :D
17:57 <elfy> #endmeeting