17:01 <pleia2> #startmeeting Community Council
17:01 <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jan 15 17:01:15 2015 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
17:01 <meetingology> 
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17:01 <pleia2> #chair czajkowski
17:01 <meetingology> Current chairs: czajkowski pleia2
17:02 <pleia2> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
17:02 <pleia2> today we're hoping to do a catchup with the Xubuntu team and Ubuntu Studio
17:02 <pleia2> anyone from either of those teams about? :)
17:04 <elfy> you and me probably ...
17:04 * pleia2 nods
17:04 <pleia2> we never got a reply from the studio folks when you told them about this meeting
17:05 <elfy> nope
17:05 <dholbach> o/
17:05 <dholbach> sorry, another meeting took a bit longer than expected
17:06 <czajkowski> dholbach: np
17:06 <pleia2> #chair dholbach elfy
17:06 <meetingology> Current chairs: czajkowski dholbach elfy pleia2
17:06 <pleia2> #topic Xubuntu catch up
17:06 * pleia2 switches to Xubuntu hat
17:06 <czajkowski> pleia2: so how are things in the land of Xubuntu ?
17:07 <pleia2> manual testing continues to be a challenge volunteer-wise, but in general things look pretty healthy
17:07 <dholbach> are there many changes planned in this cycle?
17:07 <dholbach> are lots of things happening upstream right now?
17:08 <pleia2> nothing major, elfy?
17:08 * dholbach hasn't really followed xfce development in the last time
17:09 <elfy> nothing major afaik
17:10 <dholbach> ok... I just wasn't sure if there were any big things which needed integration - like new stuff in gtk or whatever or new features
17:10 <pleia2> our new features blueprint: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-v-features
17:10 <pleia2> pretty standard set of changes for us
17:10 <czajkowski> pleia2: what are the challenges that ye face?
17:10 <elfy> dholbach: the gtk update I believe we dealt with pretty much
17:10 <pleia2> we were worried about systemd early on, but that's not happening this cycle so :)
17:11 <elfy> well it is - but later :)
17:11 <dholbach> and a trello board
17:11 <dholbach> you look well organised! :)
17:11 <czajkowski> +1
17:11 <pleia2> czajkowski: aside from lack of volunteers for some of the day to day stuff like testing, none really
17:11 <elfy> dholbach: trello - tried that for a cycle - not using it now
17:11 <elfy> I use it for qa is all
17:11 <dholbach> ah ok... it was mentioned on the blueprint
17:11 <pleia2> yeah, we're back to just blueprints
17:12 <czajkowski> pleia2: ack. getting volunteers across the board does seeem to be an issue a lot of teams face
17:12 <elfy> dholbach: oh - that was just a specific board for a specific issue
17:12 <dholbach> I see
17:12 <pleia2> I'm hosting a QA jam for Xubuntu next month, hopefully drum up some local contributors
17:13 <dholbach> we do the community Q&A sessions every week - I was just wondering if anyone of you could join us and maybe show off some of the work you've been doing or talk about what where help's required
17:14 <pleia2> I can pass along the request to the team
17:14 <dholbach> maybe some kind of hangout before UGJ might help as well to get more testers signed up
17:14 <dholbach> that'd be great
17:14 <dholbach> we're always happy to have people to talk to in there
17:15 <dholbach> every minute interviewing somebody in the hangout is a minute less where somebody asks "is the phone out yet?" :-)
17:15 <pleia2> hehe
17:15 <elfy> ha ha ha
17:15 <dholbach> excellent... so yeah... I will try to start another conversation about UGJ again
17:16 <pleia2> great
17:16 <dholbach> it'd be great if we invited some more testers there again
17:16 <dholbach> balloons, ^ more testers! :-P
17:16 <balloons> pleia2, I saw, good luck and let me know if you need anything. You're a pro at this now :-)
17:17 <elfy> that's be nice - though what we tend to fight most against (at least I do) is the fact that half the time people can't even get a usb to work properly without random hacks to boot them :(
17:17 <pleia2> balloons: thanks, will do :)
17:17 <dholbach> how did the general coordination with the desktop team go?
17:17 <dholbach> were there any problems wrt gkt/gnome bits and so on?
17:18 <pleia2> I don't know
17:18 * elfy neither
17:19 <elfy> I *think* that in general we get help most of the time when we drop by
17:19 <dholbach> ok... just thought I'd bring it up -- I think it's been a while since Ubuntu's and Xubuntu's desktop goals resulted in technical conflict situations
17:19 <elfy> but ochosi would be the one to answer that
17:19 <dholbach> ok
17:20 <dholbach> how do you get most feedback from Xubuntu users?
17:20 * mhall119 is here now
17:20 <dholbach> mhall119, hey hey
17:21 <pleia2> social media
17:21 <elfy> dholbach: across the support board mostly - some social stuff - pleia2 would know more of that
17:21 <pleia2> we're putting together a poll this cycle to ask more specific questions about the users and their usage
17:21 <pleia2> the user list and #xubuntu usually allow us to collect pain points, most of the devs chip in for support at least on IRC
17:22 <pleia2> s/list/mailing list
17:23 <dholbach> that sounds great - having a good feedback loop should help a lot in improving Xubuntu, and bringing users close enough to the team to get them to help out eventually :)
17:23 <elfy> dholbach: we can but hope so
17:24 <elfy> certainly from my point of view - it's gone backwards
17:24 <dholbach> backwards in which way?
17:24 <pleia2> the reviews for this past release have been pretty glowing http://xubuntu.org/press/
17:24 <elfy> holbach: testing, lack of :)
17:24 <pleia2> so folks writing distro reviews think improvements are being made :)
17:24 <dholbach> :-D
17:24 <dholbach> elfy, ok
17:25 <pleia2> yeah, testing, no fun when elfy ends up doing most of it as QA lead :\
17:25 <dholbach> right
17:25 <dholbach> maybe, when you do the poll, you could also ask people how they found out about the poll - maybe that'd help to figure out which channels they use and where you could get in touch more?
17:26 <czajkowski> elfy: why do you think people don't get involved?
17:26 <elfy> really have no idea czajkowski
17:26 <czajkowski> is there an incentive to get involved?
17:26 <czajkowski> like making a fuss of their work
17:26 <czajkowski> or a blog post
17:27 <pleia2> it's tedious, and making usb sticks is hard and there aren't great instructions that work universally
17:27 <elfy> the lts effort was really really good - last cycle was quiet - expected, this cycle is unfortunately worse
17:27 <czajkowski> a reason for people to feel like they are contributing
17:27 <czajkowski> pleia2: aye
17:27 <pleia2> elfy notes all contributors in his announcements
17:27 <dholbach> that's really really nice
17:27 <pleia2> we do blog posts, emails directly to all the testing members and to -devel list
17:27 <dholbach> wow
17:27 <pleia2> this cycle we're giving out stickers to some of our top testers
17:27 <elfy> if we get that sorted
17:27 <pleia2> share on social media too
17:28 <elfy> that's just sat around gathering dust for months now though - not blaming anyone though :)
17:28 <pleia2> a lot of the docs still tell folks to use testdrive too, which is just virtualized testing and not everything we need (I haven't used testdrive in a while and not even sure it works?)
17:29 <dholbach> maybe we should have a discussion about this on ubuntu-devel@ or something?
17:29 <dholbach> to figure out what we can recommend
17:29 <dholbach> and make sure that it works
17:29 <pleia2> perhaps
17:30 <elfy> I gave up trying to collate what worked where and with which version
17:30 <elfy> there's a bug for a lot of it - try and find it
17:30 <elfy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/usb-creator/+bug/1325801
17:30 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 1325801 in usb-creator (Ubuntu Utopic) "failed to boot from USB disk with error: gfxboot.c32: not a COM32R Image boot:" [Critical,Triaged]
17:31 <dholbach> yeah, I'm subscribed to that one :)
17:31 <elfy> then some people use unetbootin - that has issues
17:31 <elfy> dholbach: :)
17:31 <elfy> even had dd failing to work
17:31 <dholbach> but yeah... I think it'd help to try to get everyone's attention and point them at the problem, so we can figure this out together
17:31 <pleia2> and dd only works if your usb stick isn't that awful cheapo one you picked up at a conference ;)
17:31 <dholbach> I'm sure you're not the only ones wondering about what to recommend
17:32 <pleia2> even then, dd is hard on usb sticks
17:32 <pleia2> most weren't meant for such aggressive writing
17:32 * dholbach nods
17:32 <elfy> I did a clean install the other day with usb-creator - still the same bug, creating vivid stick from within vivid
17:33 <pleia2> I can take notes about pain points during the global jam in a few weeks
17:33 <elfy> might be useful to get some direction from the Community QA guy with this usb issue - whoever that is :p
17:34 <elfy> *cough*
17:34 <dholbach> right, I pinged him about it
17:34 <elfy> he hates me :p
17:34 <dholbach> all right... mhall119, czajkowski: any more questions from you while we have the xubuntu folks here? :)
17:34 <elfy> I always ask awkward things :)
17:35 <dholbach> elfy, I don't believe you :)
17:35 <elfy> he he he
17:35 <dholbach> I'm super happy with what you have done, especially when I heard how you invite people into the Xubuntu community
17:35 <dholbach> that's just great :)
17:36 <elfy> yea - agreed :)
17:36 <dholbach> I'm all done with questions :)
17:36 <elfy> I've got none for me either :)
17:36 <pleia2> :)
17:36 <dholbach> have we heard from any ubuntu studio folks?
17:36 <pleia2> no
17:37 <dholbach> does anyone have any other subjects you wanted to discuss?
17:37 <pleia2> #topic Any other business
17:38 <elfy> shout out to ian-weisser and those involved with http://community.ubuntu.com/contribute/find-a-task
17:38 <pleia2> yeah \o/
17:38 <dholbach> woohoo    *\o/*
17:38 <dholbach> yes, great work :)
17:38 <elfy> lovely to see something come of the discussions on the community mailing lists
17:38 <pleia2> nice to see something come out of the flurry of discussion on the community team list in Nov-Dec
17:38 <pleia2> elfy: great minds!
17:38 <elfy> :)
17:38 <dholbach> :-)
17:39 <elfy> he made a thread on the forum re that - I copied it and stuck those
17:39 <pleia2> cool
17:40 <elfy> I guess we should try and kick start some of that pre-xmas stuff now the hols are well and truly done with
17:40 <dholbach> yeah, now we can make find-a-task more prominent on the page and we should be good :)
17:40 <Laney> what's wrong with the CSS on http://packaging.ubuntu.com/ ?
17:40 * Laney just found-a-tasked his way to that :-)
17:40 <elfy> :)
17:40 <dholbach> urgh
17:41 <dholbach> it was OK this morning... or the day before
17:41 <knome> it's linking to non-existing files
17:41 <knome> http://developer.ubuntu.com/wp-content/themes/wordpress-theme-ubuntudeveloper/css/*
17:41 <dholbach> ahaaaaaaaa!
17:41 <dholbach> all right
17:41 <dholbach> we need to fix that
17:42 <pleia2> reminds me, who do we nudge about loco.ubuntu.com's planet-like feed being stuck in december?
17:42 <pleia2> hasn't updated in a few weeks
17:42 <dholbach> pleia2, mhall119 or daker would know
17:42 <dholbach> Laney, I can look into it tomorrow unless somebody beats me to it
17:42 <pleia2> thanks
17:42 <knome> while somebody is working on packaging.*, there are two invalid links
17:42 <knome> <li><a href="https://www.facebook.com/ubuntudev"class="facebook">Follow Ubuntu Development on FB &rsaquo;</a></li> <li class="last"><a href="https://twitter.com/ubuntudev"class="twitter">Follow Ubuntu Development on Twitter &rsaquo;</a></li>
17:43 <knome> add a space before class="..."
17:43 <dholbach> knome, noted down
17:43 <dholbach> it'd be nice if we could get packaging.u.c closer to how developer.u.c is laid out now
17:44 <dholbach> much nicer to read
17:44 <knome> hard to say what the difference is with the css files being nonexistant :)
17:44 <dholbach> like if you look at https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/apps/qml/tutorials/building-your-first-qml-app/ for example
17:44 <dholbach> knome, sure :)
17:45 <dholbach> anyway... not subject of this meeting - thanks in any case for pointing out what's broken
17:45 <knome> dholbach, if there are small things and canonical design/IS says it's outside their scope, you can generally try to ping me to see if i can help
17:45 <dholbach> knome, that'd be great - what happened in the case of packaging.u.c was that it relied on CSS of developer.u.c when it was still a wordpress site
17:45 <dholbach> that changed a couple of days ago :)
17:46 <knome> dholbach, yep, looks like it
17:46 <dholbach> I'll file a bug
17:46 <knome> dholbach, maybe the files are safe somewhere though, and can be put back at least temporarily
17:46 <dholbach> for me that's going to be tomorrow morning, I will need to run in a few
17:48 <dholbach> filed bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-packaging-guide/+bug/1411349 for now
17:48 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 1411349 in Ubuntu Packaging Guide "CSS broken" [Undecided,New]
17:48 <dholbach> ok... anything else?
17:48 <elfy> not from me
17:48 <dholbach> if not, let's wrap up this meeting :)
17:48 <dholbach> I'm all set
17:48 <dholbach> pleia2, czajkowski, mhall119? anyone else?
17:48 <pleia2> all done
17:49 <mhall119> not from me
17:49 <dholbach> brilliant
17:49 <dholbach> thanks a lot everyone!
17:49 <dholbach> and have a great rest of your day!
17:49 <dholbach> #endmeeting