17:05 <elfy> #startmeeting
17:05 <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Nov  6 17:05:42 2014 UTC.  The chair is elfy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
17:05 <meetingology> 
17:05 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
17:05 <elfy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
17:06 <elfy> Hi everyone - it's time for this weeks CC meeting with the Forum Council and Core Apps
17:06 <elfy> first up is the Forum Council - and I'm the only one from the FC here - so ...
17:07 <elfy> #chair YokoZar czajkowski mhall119
17:07 <meetingology> Current chairs: YokoZar czajkowski elfy mhall119
17:07 <YokoZar> Morning then ;)
17:07 <elfy> :)
17:07 <YokoZar> Put on your other hat please
17:07 <elfy> t'is on :)
17:08 <mhall119> hello everyone
17:08 <mhall119> elfy: so how is the FC doing these days?
17:08 <elfy> pretty good thanks
17:08 <mhall119> IIRC, the last checkup we had there were some issues with the bots and/or some people
17:08 <mhall119> or was that the IRCC...
17:08 <elfy> we've had quite a bit going on lately
17:09 <elfy> yea - that was ircc :)
17:09 <elfy> forum was 10 last month
17:09 <elfy> there's been a lot of work we've done to clear up some of the sub-forums, but that's an ongoing issue
17:10 <mhall119> is the FC fully staffed and is everybody active?
17:10 <elfy> we started to blog about forum things too
17:10 <elfy> nope - not fully staffed
17:10 <elfy> we had a resignation from Iowan
17:10 <mhall119> ok, have you called for nominations yet?
17:10 <elfy> we're not in a huge rush with that
17:11 <elfy> mhall119: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncil/TeamNomination#Procedure_for_nomination_of_moderation_team_member_to_Forum_Council
17:12 <elfy> we'd hope to be somewhere close to contacting the CC in a couple of months at the most
17:12 <YokoZar> Has forums usage been trending up or down?
17:12 <elfy> YokoZar: it's pretty static, with the normal upswing in April/May and October/November
17:13 <mhall119> elfy: how has the migration to SSO gone?
17:14 <elfy> well - the best that can be said is that it happened
17:14 <mhall119> heh, fair enough
17:14 <mhall119> any outstanding issues from that?
17:14 <mhall119> or anything else that you need help/feedback from Canonical on?
17:15 <elfy> only that we would like to be on a level footing with other services that use SSO
17:15 <elfy> the major issue our users have is that they get logged out
17:15 <elfy> I logged into AU 6 months ago - if I go back I'm still logged in
17:15 <elfy> with the forum if you don't visit it within 24 hours you get logged out
17:16 <elfy> for AU read anything that we can use SSO with :)
17:16 <elfy> while I personally don't have an issue as I'm not away for longer than 12 hours - others hate it :)
17:17 <elfy> and of course it's the 6 of us that get hit with that stick :)
17:17 <mhall119> elfy: is there an RT filed for that?
17:17 <elfy> if Canonical can help to get a bit of traction on that - we'd be over the moon - even if it's a definitive IS can't do that because of vB/SSO
17:18 <elfy> I think so mhall119 - I can dig it out later
17:18 <mhall119> it wouldn't be SSO, it's consumer-website specific I think
17:18 <mhall119> summit has a long session live, while etherpad has a short one, for example
17:18 <elfy> possibly - don't know - I just know what they've said in the past
17:19 <elfy> yes - etherpad is a few hours at most
17:19 <mhall119> elfy: if you have an RT send it my way and I'll try and get a status update on it
17:19 <elfy> I'll let you know the ticket
17:19 <mhall119> if you don't have an RT, file one and then do the same :)
17:19 <elfy> yep - cool
17:20 <elfy> I think that's about it from me
17:20 <czajkowski> elfy: I know the work you do is great and I do see the FC has raised its awareness from you, but are there other voices in there I worry it all falls on your shoulder
17:21 <elfy> oh - we're discussing ways to shout out recurring issues that people on forum are reporting
17:21 <elfy> eg we get a LOT of threads from people usinig LVM and not watching /boot filling up
17:22 <elfy> czajkowski: it's mostly the time for these meeetings - others were hoping to be here today, bapoumba howefield
17:22 <elfy> others have work timing issues
17:22 <czajkowski> nds ok
17:22 <YokoZar> Huh, ok
17:22 <elfy> and the FC is actually a lot noiser internally than just me saying things :)
17:23 <mhall119> that's good to hear
17:23 <elfy> YokoZar: what does that mean :)
17:24 <mhall119> elfy: so how are you promoting those recurring issues? Bug reports?
17:24 <YokoZar> Sticky threads with links, I'd imagine.
17:24 <elfy> when there is existing reports - we make sure to link the bug into threads
17:24 <mhall119> ok
17:24 <elfy> YokoZar: not yet
17:24 <elfy> this is quite a recent discussion - like a fortnight at most
17:25 <elfy> what we DON'T want to do - is point people at bugs generally, people just add pointless comment rather than me too it
17:25 <mhall119> elfy: if there isn't an existing bug report, do mods create one, or ask the original poster to create one?
17:25 <elfy> and that just annoys rather than helps
17:26 <elfy> mhall119: as I said this is quite new discussion - but we did do one with the /boot partition filling issue
17:26 <mhall119> ok
17:26 <mhall119> I'm wondering if there's a good way to let the developers know that these are recurring issues on the forums...
17:27 <elfy> well - that's kind of the thinking
17:27 <mhall119> other than having more people mark it as affecting them
17:27 <elfy> bug reports is the way to start it for sure
17:27 * mhall119 puts his Canonical Community Team hat on
17:28 <elfy> but possible start would be a similar thing with UWN
17:28 <mhall119> let me know what the FC decides on that and if we can help organize and promote the effort
17:28 * mhall119 pop hat
17:28 <elfy> like the AU stats - but we'd need to manually do it, sort of "We're seeing a lot of people with foo"
17:28 <elfy> ok mhall119 - thanks :)
17:29 <mhall119> any other questions or comments for the Forums Council?
17:30 <mhall119> guess not, thank you elfy :)
17:31 <elfy> welcome - thanks mhall119 czajkowski YokoZar
17:31 <mhall119> #topic Core Apps checkin
17:31 <mhall119> popey: around and ready?
17:31 <elfy> I'll put my other hat back on now :)
17:31 <popey> ya
17:31 <elfy> hi popey
17:31 <popey> Wassup CC
17:31 <mhall119> so I really don't have questions, since I have a weekly call with popey on this topic
17:32 <popey> Ok, lemme say a couple of things for the logs..
17:32 <popey> Since the last time we spoke, we had a Canonical Devices sprint in Washington DC
17:32 * mhall119 missed out
17:32 <popey> We invited 8 of the core apps developers, and 2 developers who were not "core apps" technically
17:32 <popey> but they were developers of apps in the store, who were heavy users of the SDK
17:33 <popey> It was _awesome_
17:33 <popey> (slightly less awesome than it could have been because mhall119 wasn't there of course) :D
17:33 <popey> There's been a bunch of blog posts from various people about their experience.
17:33 <mhall119> :)
17:34 <popey> They were all very professional, friendly, productive and helpful.
17:34 <mhall119> I'm glad they had so much face-time with the platform and SDK teams to give them feedback and get support
17:34 <popey> We got _so_ much done in that week.
17:34 <popey> We need to do more in-person events.
17:34 <popey> Not necessarily "Lets do UDS again", but more "Lets do more in person things"
17:34 <mhall119> I think we're all in agreement on that
17:34 <czajkowski> nods
17:34 <YokoZar> hah, ok
17:35 <popey> The fact that there were 230 people in one venue meant we could go and grab people and have conversations to sort issues out
17:35 <popey> loads of those hallway conversations we used to have
17:35 <czajkowski> popey: I think it's nice to see happen, however to many it was still odd to see as they are not included and have no way of being involved as not core dev - also the line of men there didn't really show diversity.  I appreciate this isn't dwn to you but to many women it may appear rather exclusive.
17:35 <YokoZar> There's a reason silicon valley is a physical location ;)
17:36 <popey> czajkowski: I think you're raising two issues there.
17:36 <popey> let me see.
17:36 <popey> 1) non core apps people aren't invited
17:36 <popey> 2) not diverse enough
17:36 <popey> Am I right?
17:36 <YokoZar> czajkowski: Unfortunately I feel that live events will always surface our underlying diversity problem
17:37 <popey> Well, taking 2) first, 220 of the people were Canonical employees. I have near-zero influence on the hiring process of my employer.
17:37 <popey> It is a fact that the vast majority of engineers in the company are men.
17:37 <mhall119> this is kind of off the subject of core apps
17:37 <mhall119> can we finish that topic first?
17:38 <popey> Indeed, however it does lead to the second thing.
17:38 <popey> I would like to see more diversity in core apps specifically.
17:38 <popey> because that _is_ all guys.
17:38 <popey> I will take an action to look at how I can improve that, thanks czajkowski
17:38 <mhall119> popey: something like a OPW for Core Apps?
17:38 <popey> OPW?
17:39 <mhall119> outreach program for women, the (I think) GNOME initiative
17:39 <popey> Ah okay. Sure.
17:39 <popey> I'm happy to have ideas thrown at me, and have a session at Open Week if you think it's useful?
17:39 <czajkowski> popey: thanks
17:39 <czajkowski> I do understand it's not all down to you
17:40 <popey> Sure, but I'm one of the people who recruit devs for core apps, so it kinda is ☻
17:40 <popey> But it's now on my list, where previously it was at the back of my mind.
17:40 <popey> thanks.
17:40 <popey> So anyway, back to core apps.
17:40 <mhall119> +1 for an Open Week or UOS session on that topic
17:41 <popey> The event gave us a spurt of work during the week, and after too.
17:41 <popey> We still need to recruit more developers as some of them are busy / burning out / spread thin
17:41 * czajkowski hugs popey thank you!
17:41 <popey> and we'll certainly talk about that at UOS next week.
17:42 <popey> Do you have any specific questions for me?
17:42 <YokoZar> Regarding CoreApps -- I've seen some chatter online about how Canonical's focus might be a bit unclear with all the different directions it's going lately.  I'm beginning to wonder if this is related to the lack of UDS keynotes.
17:42 <mhall119> so the topic has come up a couple of times before about giving app developers a path to Ubuntu Membership, I'd like to see some movemement on that
17:42 <popey> YokoZar: Ah, now that's an interesting point.
17:42 <mhall119> YokoZar: how is that related to Core Apps/
17:43 <mhall119> ?
17:43 <popey> its tangentially related.
17:43 <YokoZar> CoreApps is the newest thing in that sense, and I'm wondering how we can show this sort of commitment clearly
17:43 <popey> I had a conversation with Rick Spencer in DC where he was surprised to hear about (some opinion / thoughts from the community)
17:44 <popey> I think he thought we'd communicated (this thing that I wont say but doesn't matter to this conversation) well, but actually it seems people in the wider user/developer community possibly had the wrong end of the stick
17:44 <popey> and that as a result perhaps we aren't communicating our overall strategy clearly
17:44 <popey> some of that is partly down to the usual commercial contractual obligations (the devices we can't talk about)
17:45 <popey> but I think there is room for more "Keynote" style "Trajectory setting"
17:45 <popey> because we're all heads-down working hard, coming up for air now and then
17:45 <popey> and the community / users / bloggers are getting the wrong end of the stick in a lot of ways
17:45 <popey> related to devices / convergence / click / packaging / unity 8 etc
17:45 <mhall119> didn't rick do such a keynote last UOS?
17:46 <popey> yeah, but with all due respect, rick isn't mark standing on stage giving a keynote
17:46 <popey> nearly _nobody_ blogs about what rick says
17:46 <popey> mark says "we're doing bunnies this year" and bloggers go mental for it.
17:46 <popey> Hope that semi-ramble makes sense.
17:48 <popey> ...
17:48 <elfy> it did to me
17:51 <YokoZar> It makes perfect sense
17:52 <mhall119> so we need rick to grow a beard then? :)
17:52 <popey> Yes.
17:52 <mhall119> ok, I've got a TODO to follow up with mark about a UOS keynote, so I'll work on that
17:53 <mhall119> any other questions or comments for popey about core apps?
17:53 <elfy> not here
17:55 <elfy> thanks from me popey - gtg for a bit now :)
17:55 <popey> thanks elfy
17:58 <mhall119> #topic open
17:58 <mhall119> any other topics for the CC before we wrap up?
17:59 <YokoZar> Thanks folks
17:59 <mhall119> ok, thanks everyone!
17:59 <mhall119> #endmeeting