18:00 <belkinsa> #startmeeting Doc Team Meeting 18:00 <meetingology> Meeting started Wed May 7 18:00:18 2014 UTC. The chair is belkinsa. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. 18:00 <meetingology> 18:00 <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick 18:00 <belkinsa> chair godbyk pmatulis_ 18:00 <belkinsa> #chair godbyk pmatulis_ 18:00 <meetingology> Current chairs: belkinsa godbyk pmatulis_ 18:01 <belkinsa> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/MeetingAgenda 18:01 <belkinsa> Who is here for the Doc Team meeting? 18:01 <godbyk> o/ 18:01 <GunnarHj> o/ 18:01 <pleia2> o/ 18:02 <belkinsa> Anyone else? 18:02 <pmatulis_> hi, i'm here 18:02 <belkinsa> Prefect, you are one of the chairs, pmatulis_ and godbyk, 18:03 <GunnarHj> So there are three chairs and me. ;) 18:03 <belkinsa> And pleia2. 18:03 <belkinsa> She is not one. 18:03 <GunnarHj> Aha, right.. 18:03 <belkinsa> Okay, starting now. 18:03 <belkinsa> The first item is: Find a time, day, and week for our monthly meetings 18:04 <belkinsa> #topic Find a time, day, and week for our monthly meetings 18:04 <belkinsa> I was thinking about using the same day and time as this meeting for every month. Would this work for everyone? 18:05 <pmatulis_> not me, 1 hr earlier is better 18:05 <godbyk> As far as I know right now, yes. My schedule is likely to change a bit in a couple weeks, though, but I'll try to keep this slot open for our meeting. 18:05 <belkinsa> Alright, pmatulis_. And cool, godbyk. 18:06 <shaunm> hi all 18:06 <GunnarHj> Fine for me, whether 1h earlier or not. 18:06 <godbyk> belkinsa: An hour earlier is fine for me, too. 18:06 <godbyk> Hi, shaunm. 18:07 <belkinsa> Hey all, shaunm, we are figuring out a date and time for our monthly meetings. One our earlier is the most voted option and the same day. 18:07 <pleia2> this is a tricky discussion to have during the meeting where all attendees can make this time ;) 18:07 <godbyk> pleia2: Good point. :) 18:08 <belkinsa> Agreed, would this be better via mailing-list? 18:08 <pleia2> well, I think we just agree to an hour earlier than this time and re-evaluate later 18:08 <belkinsa> Sure, that can work. 18:08 <godbyk> I'd post that time to the list and see if anyone can't make it. 18:09 <belkinsa> Alright, do you want to take that action item, godbyk? 18:09 <GunnarHj> Yeah, let's decide and let people who are not here object. 18:09 <godbyk> belkinsa: Sure. 18:10 <belkinsa> #action godbyk Post the new time (and date) for our monthly meetings to the list and ask if it's a good time for the rest 18:10 * meetingology godbyk Post the new time (and date) for our monthly meetings to the list and ask if it's a good time for the rest 18:10 <godbyk> Which Wednesday are we interested in? First Wednesday of the month or some other one? 18:11 <belkinsa> Oh, I think the first Wednesday of the month. 18:11 <belkinsa> But anyone else can voice something else. 18:12 <pmatulis_> wow, this is going to be a long meeting 18:12 <belkinsa> It will, since there is a lot of items. 18:13 <GunnarHj> Let's go for first Wednesday, please, and go on. 18:13 <belkinsa> Sure. 18:13 <belkinsa> Moving on... 18:14 <belkinsa> #Topic vUDS Prep 18:14 <belkinsa> The vUDS is June 10 to June 12. 18:14 <belkinsa> Are going to have a roundtable just like the last time? 18:15 <belkinsa> #undo 18:15 <meetingology> Removing item from minutes: TOPIC 18:15 <belkinsa> #topic vUDS Prep 18:15 <belkinsa> Sorry 18:16 <GunnarHj> Can't hurt.. Do we have more specific topics to discuss? 18:16 <godbyk> I think it'd be nice if we could entice some developers and designers to attend in the hopes of recruiting their help in keeping us up to date on user-facing changes that we need to document. 18:17 <GunnarHj> +1 18:17 <belkinsa> We could talk about a Global Doc Jam that could be in the middle cycle. 18:17 <belkinsa> godbyk, I agree. We need networking with them to get the docs updated. 18:18 <pmatulis_> IMO they're too busy 18:18 <pleia2> if someone wants to make the blueprint, we can add ideas to it prior to the vuds session so we have some talking points 18:18 <pmatulis_> i once had an arrangement to have them just update blueprints whenever something new came up that needed documenting, nothing happened 18:18 <pleia2> (I believe this is what we did last time) 18:18 <GunnarHj> pmatulis_: Too busy to let the docs team know about news? I'll never accept that. 18:19 <pleia2> I have a couple devs who have emailed after I spoke with rick spencer about this last cycle, I can reach out to them 18:19 <belkinsa> Sure, that can work, pleia2. 18:20 <belkinsa> And I could work out that blueprint for the ideas. 18:20 <GunnarHj> belkinsa: Excellent about the blueprint. 18:21 <belkinsa> #action belkinsa Create the next vUDS Doc Team Roundtable Blueprint for ideas on talking points 18:21 * meetingology belkinsa Create the next vUDS Doc Team Roundtable Blueprint for ideas on talking points 18:22 <belkinsa> #action pleia2 Reach out to developers for updates for Doc Team 18:22 * meetingology pleia2 Reach out to developers for updates for Doc Team 18:22 <belkinsa> Are we ready to move on? 18:22 <pmatulis_> just a sec 18:22 * belkinsa nods 18:23 <pmatulis_> in these blueprints, by "Doc Team" do you mean desktop and server peeps? 18:23 <belkinsa> No, all sub-teams: wiki and manual included. 18:24 <pmatulis_> so where is this 'developer news' going to end up? 18:25 <pleia2> in our last blueprint we had subsections for each team 18:25 <pleia2> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-1311-docteam-roundtable 18:25 <godbyk> pmatulis_: They could just drop emails to the ubuntu-docs list. It doesn't need to be anything complicated. 18:25 <belkinsa> Indeed, godbyk has it. 18:26 <pmatulis_> godbyk: ok, but srsly, they'll just say to subscribe to some mailing list, but let's move on 18:26 <GunnarHj> pmatulis_: Good point. We need to establish some kind of procedure. 18:26 <godbyk> pmatulis_: No subscription required. If it ends up in the moderation queue we'll find it. 18:26 <pleia2> pmatulis_: I actually have and positive discussions with a couple of devs, so I am more hopeful :) 18:27 <belkinsa> Indeed, pmatulis_. godbyk and I are the mods. 18:27 <pmatulis_> pleia2: glad to hear 18:27 <pleia2> I think he meant that the devs will tell *us* to just subscribe to the mailing lists 18:27 <pmatulis_> yep 18:28 <godbyk> Ah, I understand. 18:28 <belkinsa> I think someone needs to take on an action item for a procedure on this... 18:28 <pleia2> belkinsa: just emailing the list is fine 18:28 <belkinsa> Sure. Why not. 18:29 <GunnarHj> I'm not sure that emailing the list is fine. People forget. 18:29 <GunnarHj> I can take a procedure action item. 18:29 <belkinsa> #action GunnarHj Work out a procedure for developers to get updates to Doc Team 18:29 * meetingology GunnarHj Work out a procedure for developers to get updates to Doc Team 18:30 <belkinsa> Thanks, GunnarHj. 18:30 <GunnarHj> yw 18:30 <belkinsa> Okay, moving on... 18:31 <belkinsa> I think we will skip the Open Help Confectioner (http://openhelpconference.com/) topic and discuss this on the list if needed. 18:31 <GunnarHj> Is anyone planning to go there? 18:32 <belkinsa> #Topic Open Help Conference 18:32 <shaunm> me, of course :) 18:32 <belkinsa> I still don't know if I will. 18:33 <shaunm> I'd really like to encourage you guys to do a sprint. they're really good for bringing a team together 18:34 <belkinsa> Okay, moving on. 18:34 <GunnarHj> shaunm: Hmm... I know what sprintf is, but sprint? ;) 18:34 <belkinsa> Or not. 18:34 <belkinsa> GunnarHj, it's like what we do in the vUDS's. 18:34 <shaunm> GunnarHj: it's where the team comes together for a few days to work on stuff 18:34 <shaunm> and to be social. the social part is important 18:34 <godbyk> shaunm: I'd love to go, but I lack the funds at the moment. 18:35 <godbyk> shaunm: It looks like a cool conference, though. 18:36 <GunnarHj> I guess it's easier for Americans to go there than for us in Europe.. 18:37 <belkinsa> Can we move on? 18:37 <GunnarHj> shaunm: Is it a 100% IRL event? 18:38 <shaunm> GunnarHj: more or less 18:38 <GunnarHj> shaunm: It's a pity IMO. 18:39 <belkinsa> shaunm and GunnarHj, can do this outside the meeting since we have other items. 18:39 <shaunm> sure 18:39 <GunnarHj> ok 18:39 <belkinsa> Thanks. 18:39 <belkinsa> #topic Identifying news that affect the docs 18:40 <belkinsa> Since this was yours, GunnarHj, do you want to talk about it? 18:40 <GunnarHj> I put up that item, but I think it has been already covered. 18:40 <belkinsa> I think so. 18:41 <belkinsa> Anyone else? 18:41 <belkinsa> Okay, moving on. 18:42 <belkinsa> #topic Desktop 18:42 <belkinsa> #subtopic Find a driver 18:43 <belkinsa> Would this be a better of as a action item that someone can do? 18:44 <GunnarHj> Suppose it would be easier to find a driver if there were some contributors. Personally I fear that the lack of persons who are ready to make significant contributions will soon be alarming. 18:44 <belkinsa> knome, we are talking about finding a driver for the desktop sub-team. 18:45 <belkinsa> Bummer, GunnarHj. How many do we have right now? 18:45 * knome keeps hidden under the table 18:46 <GunnarHj> belkinsa: Well, it depends on how you define "significant". But without dsmythies I see Kevin and myself. 18:46 <godbyk> Normally, I'd volunteer, but I'm going to be busy this year working on my dissertation. 18:48 <GunnarHj> So what do we do? After all we are talking about a highly visible package that is shipped with each Ubuntu installation. 18:49 <knome> if nobody wants to take the driver title, then so be it 18:49 <knome> let's focus on getting it better with the resources we have and not stumble with bureaucracy 18:49 <godbyk> If there's no driver, then we just keep muddling along as we have been, I guess. 18:49 <knome> increase publicity of docs during the cycle 18:50 <GunnarHj> knome: The resources we have? Which are those? 18:50 <knome> random people around at random times. 18:50 <GunnarHj> (sorry for sounding so pessimistic, but I am) 18:51 <belkinsa> Sorry. 18:51 <knome> there are people who want to make the team work better 18:51 <belkinsa> Internet died on me. 18:51 <pmatulis_> do we know to what extent the online help facility is actually used? 18:51 <knome> but might not necessarily be able/willing to work with the desktop docs. 18:51 <knome> like me. 18:51 <knome> we can send a request for the IS 18:51 <knome> ...if we want stats/if there are any 18:51 <belkinsa> +1 we need stats. 18:51 <pmatulis_> i remember just stumbling upon it. i'm not a big desktop user mind you 18:52 <pmatulis_> i'm not talking about online as in web 18:52 <pmatulis_> but online as "in your computer", the docs package 18:52 <knome> right. 18:52 <knome> how would we know how much that is used? 18:53 <knome> there's no sensible way to track that 18:53 <pmatulis_> yes, that's what i'm getting at. a poll comes to mind 18:53 <belkinsa> I dig that idea pmatulis_/ 18:53 <knome> polls are going to be twisted, vocal minority and all 18:53 <knome> but sure. 18:54 <belkinsa> Who wants to take the action item to make a poll? 18:54 <pmatulis_> knome: statistics will always be like that, but we can extract valuable information nonetheless 18:54 <knome> pmatulis_, i hope so 18:54 <GunnarHj> Not sure I see the point. It's the same content on the computers and at help.ubuntu.com. 18:54 <godbyk> There's also this: http://popcon.ubuntu.com/ 18:54 <godbyk> I'm not sure if it tracks when programs are executed or just if the packages are installed 18:54 <knome> godbyk, that only tracks the amount of times the package is installed 18:55 <godbyk> knome: Ah, figures. 18:55 <pmatulis_> GunnarHj: you don't see the point in having both in-computer and on the web? 18:55 <knome> anyway, the poll needs to be conducted somewhere where enough people from all skill levels hang around 18:55 <belkinsa> +1 18:56 <GunnarHj> pmatulis_: No, what I mean is that it doesn't really matter if people read the docs on the web or on their computers. 18:56 <GunnarHj> After all I take it that we think a desktop guide is good to have... 18:56 <pmatulis_> GunnarHj: well, that's not what the poll is about 18:57 <GunnarHj> pmatulis_: Maybe I missed something. What's the poll about? 18:57 <belkinsa> Guys, can we move on and I can give the action item to someone. (Look at the time) 18:57 <pmatulis_> GunnarHj: the poll would be along the lines of: "Do you read docs from the help facility in your computer?" 18:57 <pmatulis_> point being, ever since the serverguide ceased to be a package, we have had greater freedom to get stuff done 18:58 <GunnarHj> pmatulis_: Ok, I see. 18:58 <belkinsa> ... 18:58 <pmatulis_> maybe preceeded by: "Do you even know about the help facility in your computer?" 18:59 <GunnarHj> pmatulis_: Can't help thinking that there is a big difference between the desktop and the server in this respect. 19:00 <pmatulis_> GunnarHj: what respect? 19:00 <belkinsa> GUYS! 19:00 <GunnarHj> pmatulis_: The server is not shipped with a desktop. :) 19:00 <belkinsa> Can this be talked about on the mailing-list because we are running out time. 19:00 <pmatulis_> GunnarHj: thanks for reminding me 19:01 <GunnarHj> pmatulis_: But sure, it would be nice to know to which extent people know about it and use it, of course. 19:01 <knome> i'm not sure what the point of the meetings are if not discussing things 19:02 <GunnarHj> knome: Me neither. 19:02 <knome> i understand there are schedules and people need to run, but there's clearly discussions to be had 19:02 <godbyk> The meeting is for discussing things, but I think we only have this room reserved for the hour. 19:02 <godbyk> So we could continue the discussions in #ubuntu-doc. 19:02 <knome> we can continue at -doc 19:02 <pmatulis_> anyone handling the poll then? 19:03 <knome> my point is, if the meetings are held once per 2-3 months and are 2 hours long, maybe we need more meetings. 19:03 <belkinsa> Sorry guys, my internet is failing. 19:03 <godbyk> Welcome back, belkinsa. If we're out of time in this channel, we can move the discussion to #ubuntu-doc. 19:03 <belkinsa> sure. 19:03 <belkinsa> #endmeeting