16:59 #startmeeting Community Council 16:59 Meeting started Thu Apr 3 16:59:47 2014 UTC. The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. 16:59 16:59 Available commands: action commands idea info link nick 16:59 #chair mhall119 elfy 16:59 Current chairs: elfy mhall119 pleia2 17:00 * mhall119 is here 17:00 * elfy is too 17:01 today on the schedule we have quick check-ins with the Doc team and QA team, we'll wait a couple minutes to see if more CC folks drift in 17:01 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda 17:02 cprofitt: meeting time 17:02 I know dholbach wasn't going to be here, and czajkowski is setting up for an event so may not be 17:03 o/ 17:03 o/ and I'm for the Doc Team. GunnarHj is too. 17:04 alright, let's get rolling 17:04 #topic Doc team check-in 17:04 yep, back again 17:04 hello Doc team friends! how are things going this cycle? 17:04 sorry for being a bit late 17:05 We have been missing a driver for the desktop guide. 17:05 * pleia2 switches hats 17:05 hello GunnarHj :) 17:05 I've tried to help nudge things along by helping with writing calls, but having more folks willing to push Desktop stuff forward would really help 17:05 dholbach: Hi 17:06 a driver being somebody who's aware of the bug situation, reviews merge proposals and things like that? 17:06 pleia2: GunnarHj: is it particularly difficult or otherwise putting people of from trying to do it? 17:06 the getting involved docs have improved a lot, recruitment itself is just down 17:07 Fixing bugs and handling MPs works. 17:07 But keeping up to date with news and taking responsibility for the docs update has not worked well. 17:08 how are the current contributors being promoted/praised for their work? 17:08 we also have the typical problem of FFes hitting us hard, Ubuntu One is the big nusiance this time - thanks to GunnarHj for being on top of that 17:09 I wish they could have told us a month ago :) 17:09 Agreed. 17:09 oh yeah, I can imagine :-/ 17:09 mhall119: I'm biased, but I think we show that they are welcome and that their work is appreciated. 17:09 GunnarHj: I was thinking more externally and publicly 17:10 are reviews of the docs and/or updates of the TODO list something which is discussed in regular meetings? 17:10 I think what we really need is a Desktop Champion, who herds cats and makes sure we're on top of calls for Doc review and things 17:10 it might help recruitment if others see the current contributors getting that kind of recognition 17:10 so - it's mostly recruitment and 'it's cycle end' issues again? 17:10 pleia2: Right, Desktop champion, driver or whatever... 17:10 elfy: yeah, but technical process wise I think we've got packaging and translations stuff down, finally :) 17:10 I think recruitment is not easy for anyone that I've had much to do with lately to be honest 17:11 * elfy has a bucket full of his own like that 17:11 docs are typically a challenge for recruiting, in my experience 17:11 for any project 17:11 mhall119: yep agreed 17:11 I also think we should ask ourselves if it's motivated to maintain both the desktop guide and the Ubuntu manual separately, considering that we are short of contributors. But that should better be discussed among the docs people first, I suppose. 17:12 * pleia2 nods 17:12 we did have a successful Doc Day where we intermingled Doc and Manual sessions, that was nice :) 17:12 I agree there. Maybe another meeting might be needed in the near time. 17:12 everyone does seem willing to work together 17:13 dholbach: we haven't really had regular meetings 17:13 pleia2, do you think having regular doc days would help? 17:13 dholbach: I don't know, they're a lot of work to put on 17:13 it didn't really seem to increase contributors either :\ 17:13 And maybe Global Jams early the cycle? 17:13 pleia2, in terms of organising the todo list? 17:14 dholbach: to get terms right, doc days were a user-facing thing in Classroom; meetings are internal team things 17:14 I think regular meetings would be useful 17:14 pleia2: Agree. 17:14 Once a month? As in those? 17:14 I organized a couple during the cycle, but I have too much on my plate and didn't do a great job of it :) 17:15 I rarely see anything about docs - unless I actually go digging - doesn't appear to be much publically happening 17:15 pleia2, would it help to set up a schedule with assigned chair for the meetings? 17:15 on planet for instance 17:15 elfy: yeah, pretty sure my post from February is the only one recently 17:16 mmm - that would help raise awareness 17:16 anyway, aside from the standard kind of recruitment issues, I think things are going well compared to where we were a year ago 17:16 I think that regular meetings would be valuable to start with. 17:16 the team is much more open, we do have new contributors 17:16 Agreed. I could help organize them. 17:17 belkinsa: thanks! 17:17 awesome :-D 17:17 Not a problem and I think at least three per cycle is the idea i have in mind. 17:17 I'd say that maybe blogging and getting it on Planet would help 17:17 do you think it'd help to have a standing agenda item in desktop team's meetings about docs? 17:17 elfy: yeah 17:18 dholbach: yes, we've really struggled to get anyone from teams to talk to us 17:18 so could we help with that? 17:18 elfy: Maybe. 17:18 rickspencer offered to help at the last vUDS, but it was too late in the cycle (I'll reach out to him again in a few months) 17:19 In the long run I think that contacts with the desktop team and others ought to be responsibilty of 'the Champion' 17:20 pleia2, maybe it'd help to raise it with seb128/jasoncwarner so they add it to their meeting agendas and note down things which might be of interest for the docs team? 17:20 dholbach: yeah, that'd be great 17:20 A thought (before I lose it): you think using Trello, the to do list, help the doc team? 17:21 do you use it now belkinsa ? 17:21 No. 17:21 personally I use it for xubuntu qa and found it very useful 17:22 it's not a public one - but all the qa team have access to it 17:22 Yeah, that's my idea is to have a team only one. 17:22 belkinsa: I'd certainly try it 17:22 Because I think the meeting bot action items (blueprints) don't help that well. 17:22 I will. 17:23 Are there any other things in the project you'd like to improve? 17:23 Or are there things which went really well this cycle? 17:24 Cleaning up the wiki was a failure. I tried to organize a jam but I lost tack of time and forgot the jam is this weekend. 17:25 belkinsa: But the wiki is not tied to cycles, so it's just keep going with it. 17:25 GunnarHj, right. Duh. 17:25 ;) 17:26 dsmythies does a great job behind the scenes to make things work technically. 17:26 Both with the desktop guide and the server guide. 17:26 cleaning the wiki would make jcastro happy :) 17:26 belkinsa: I wouldn't say it was a failure :) a lot of work got done, we added more admins and brought in the PopularPages team who've been doing a lot 17:27 dholbach: this is help.ubuntu.com, not wiki.o.o 17:27 pleia2, I guess you are right. A lot of work was done. 17:27 still he'd be happy :-) 17:28 dholbach: What more exactly is it he is after? 17:28 dholbach: Mass deletion of outdated pages? 17:28 aloha 17:28 Hey there, czajkowski. 17:29 hi czajkowski 17:29 sorry for being late at another event 17:29 dholbach: The general problem with the wiki is that the docs team members usually don't have the expertise needed to dig into the contents. 17:29 GunnarHj, yes - he gave a lightning talk at a UDS some years ago in which he got very passionate about removing outdated/misleading information :) 17:31 GunnarHj, I can imagine - it'd probably need to be in conjunction with members of other teams 17:31 GunnarHj, I agree and the only way is to have is a Global Jam. 17:31 Or that. 17:32 thanks for coming GunnarHj and belkinsa :) 17:32 Whichever method, it needs to be organized somehow. So regular meetings may help also there. 17:32 Not a problem. 17:33 * belkinsa nods 17:33 anyone here from the QA team? 17:33 np 17:33 thanks for coming along belkinsa GunnarHj 17:33 thanks a lot, and thanks for your tireless work! 17:33 balloons: about? 17:33 * elfy prepares sharp needle ... 17:34 :-) 17:34 no one responded when we told them about the meeting, so I'm not holding my breath 17:34 Your welcome and thank you for this check-in meeting. 17:34 we can move on to AoB and see if anyone shows up in the meantime 17:34 thank belkinsa GunnarHj for coming 17:34 #topic Any other Business 17:35 pleia2: tbh - I don't even know who the QA team is ... 17:35 elfy: I had hoped it would be *bigger* now that QA and Bug folks were working together so closely 17:36 I have a question. What teams are required to go through this check-in? 17:36 belkinsa: any of the elected coucils we over see 17:36 and then ones we'e had request for a catch up 17:36 *we've 17:36 Okay, thank you. 17:36 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda#Team_catch-up has the current list 17:36 belkinsa, we started out with our governance boards, then added the flavour teams and then some additional teams: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda hast a list 17:37 anyone have anything else? 17:38 I'm all set 17:39 ok, thanks everyone 17:39 #endmeeting