17:05 <dholbach> #startmeeting 17:05 <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Dec 19 17:05:53 2013 UTC. The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. 17:05 <meetingology> 17:05 <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired 17:06 <dholbach> #chair mhall119 cprofitt 17:06 <meetingology> Current chairs: cprofitt dholbach mhall119 17:06 <dholbach> hello everybody 17:06 <dholbach> #topic Check-in with the Developer Membership Board 17:06 <dholbach> do we have anyone from the DMB here? 17:07 <dholbach> ScottK, bdrung_, laney, micahg, tumbleweed, stgraber: anyone of you guys around? 17:07 <mhall119> I emailed them, but it was moderated, and the list owner was the TB, who didn't exist 17:08 <Laney> I moderated it. 17:08 <dholbach> hey laney 17:08 <cprofitt> hello everyone 17:08 <Laney> hello 17:08 <dholbach> how are things? 17:08 <dholbach> how has the last cycle been for the DMB? 17:09 <Laney> depends how much you like autopilot 17:09 <Laney> hmm, I think it's been much on the level 17:09 <Laney> we've had some new people but not been overly busy 17:09 <Laney> the TB approved the PPU change that we talked about before 17:09 <dholbach> excellent 17:09 <dholbach> didn't you have any other changes up your sleeves, like making it easier for Debian developers too? 17:10 <dholbach> or are we at the "it's as easy as it gets" point already? :) 17:10 <Laney> we did some of that 17:10 <Laney> have used it a couple of times already 17:11 <Laney> probably need some more experience to know where it could be made easier 17:11 <dholbach> did you get any feedback? or was it straight enough for people who are not in the Ubuntu project too much yet? 17:12 <Laney> currently you have to have attended a DMB interview once before 17:12 <Laney> so it's not /that/ simple 17:12 <Laney> I guess somehow that could be relaxed, but we suck at doing email applications 17:12 <dholbach> do two DMB interviews or first somebody else's interview? (I'm not sure I understand... :-)) 17:12 <Laney> one 17:12 <Laney> then you just email to get more stuff 17:13 <dholbach> ah ok 17:14 <dholbach> one thing we talked about in the past was that the DAT and DMB work more closely together, but the DAT has gone through a bit of a hard time recently because many of its members got quite busy (me included) - so I wanted to ask: do you feel people who should apply (because they're experienced enough) do it? 17:15 <Laney> yeah generally people do if they've managed to get that far 17:15 <dholbach> and I'm just interested in your gut feeling - it's a bit hard to maintain an overview over all people who contribute through the cycles 17:15 <Laney> probably getting people to that stage is the part that suffers 17:15 <dholbach> I'll take an action to bring this up with the DAT again 17:15 <Laney> but we get people coming through like ginggs and mitya57 recently 17:16 <Laney> and I expect Noskcaj and darkxst soon 17:16 <dholbach> ... which is excellent :) 17:17 <dholbach> do you feel there are Debian developers who would apply for upload rights if they knew more about the possibility? 17:17 <Laney> ummmmmmmmm, that's hard to say 17:17 <dholbach> like, do you see Debian developers constantly filing sync requests for their packages, etc 17:18 <Laney> not really, but I think someone would notice and poke them to apply if that happened 17:18 <Laney> pocock is one in that situation, who we're being bad at processing because it's going over email 17:18 <mhall119> do you see Debian developers surprised to learn they can apply? 17:18 <dholbach> laney: is it the roundtrips that take too long? 17:19 <Laney> it's just something that gets put off 17:19 <Laney> because there's no fixed time for it 17:20 <Laney> you know how these things are 17:20 <dholbach> I mark mails as unread if I didn't reply to them yet............... 17:20 <dholbach> sorry, probably not the most useful suggestion :) 17:20 <Laney> haha 17:20 <mhall119> email still sucks as a TODO list manager 17:20 <dholbach> still, it feels possible to me to get it done somehow :) 17:20 <Laney> everyone knows they have to just DO IT but it still doesn't always work 17:21 <Laney> doing it live on IRC is much better for everyone 17:21 <Laney> mhall119: not really 17:21 <dholbach> sure 17:21 <Laney> but I don't think the fast path processes are very well advertised 17:21 <dholbach> what the MC did (ages ago) was sort of like a private stand-up meeting where we went through our TODO 17:21 <dholbach> it sounds to me like something like this would probably just take 5-10 minutes for the DMB 17:22 <Laney> hmm 17:22 <Laney> I dunno, we aren't very good at exerting social pressure on each other 17:22 <dholbach> there must be a way to make it a bit more painful to admit that something still hasn't gotten done :) 17:22 <Laney> like the PPU team reorganisation has gone on for weeks already 17:24 <mhall119> does the DMB have regular meetings? 17:24 <Laney> there's a named person assigned to it, it gets brought up at every meeting as it's on the agenda, yet somehow ... 17:24 <Laney> sure, every two weeks 17:24 <Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda 17:24 <mhall119> so it's brought up, and everybody knows who's supposed to do it, but it just doesn't happen? 17:24 <Laney> pretty much 17:24 <Laney> how do you deal with that? 17:25 <mhall119> big stick? 17:25 <Laney> not sure what stick we have available 17:25 <mhall119> is there a list right now of people that need to be contacted? 17:26 <Laney> other than getting them removed from the board 17:26 <pleia2> some boards have taken to have a secretary who makes sure the administrative stuff is followed through on 17:26 <pleia2> and the CC uses a trello board so we don't lose track of tasks 17:26 <Laney> there's just one person 17:26 <Laney> I really don't think keeping track is the problem 17:26 <pleia2> fair enough 17:26 <Laney> It's just lack of urgency 17:27 <cprofitt> why is there a lack of urgency? 17:27 <dholbach> cprofitt, I guess it's all busy people 17:27 <mhall119> Laney: you said there's a named person assigned to every applicant? 17:27 <Laney> nein, applicants are handled by everyone 17:27 <Laney> this is for other things 17:28 <mhall119> so when you say "there's a named person assigned to it", what is the "it"? 17:28 <Laney> other action items, such as restructuring PPU teams that we have ongoing atm 17:28 <Laney> previously it was a project to gather descriptions for packagesets 17:29 <Laney> so that we could more easily extend them 17:29 <Laney> eventually we dropped that one because it went on so long 17:29 <mhall119> Laney: so there aren't currently any of these things that need to be taken care of? 17:29 <Laney> sure there is, I just said one :-) 17:29 <mhall119> restructing PPU teams? 17:30 <Laney> and I'm the one who was supposed to start pocock's application but haven't done it yet 17:30 <Laney> was waiting for some endorsements but it looks like they came in now 17:30 <mhall119> so maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see a list of these and who's assigned to them 17:30 <Laney> it was a project we worked on in consultation with the previous CC 17:30 <mhall119> on the agenda page 17:31 <Laney> umm, it's listed as an action point on the agenda 17:31 <Laney> It's true that we should have starting the application there, let me add that 17:32 <Laney> there we go 17:33 <cprofitt> Laney: the CC has used Trello to track and assign items... not sure if something like that could help with some of the items 17:34 <pleia2> cprofitt: mentioned that :) 17:34 <Laney> Yeah 17:34 <Laney> It might help in that it breaks down the tasks I guess 17:34 <dholbach> I think if the DMB uses the Wiki that should work as well - you'll always have to have somebody looking at the list again to see what's still in TODO and DOING :) 17:35 <Laney> it's only tracked in the agenda, which means that we come back to things every two weeks 17:35 <Laney> the idea is that people feel shame if they haven't done their work 17:35 <Laney> doesn't work so well :-( 17:35 <dholbach> laney: maybe somebody could send a reminder between the two meetings 17:36 <Laney> yeah maybe 17:36 <Laney> I'll try that 17:36 <dholbach> awesome 17:36 <dholbach> apart from that you feel everything's working out fine? 17:37 <Laney> I think everything's on the same level as it was last time we had this kind of meeting ... 17:37 <dholbach> ok :) 17:38 <dholbach> does anyone else have any more questions for the DMB? 17:38 <dholbach> laney: anything else you wanted to bring up or the CC could help with? 17:38 <xnox> dholbach: what do they really want for Christmas? 17:38 <xnox> =) 17:38 <dholbach> rainbow unicorns just like everyone else :) 17:39 <pleia2> I'm good, was nice to see anoither motu approved the other day :) 17:39 <Laney> moar motus 17:39 <pleia2> thanks for joining us, Laney 17:39 <Laney> hey, I remember back in the day there used to be "behind MOTU" interviews, would be nice to have those again 17:40 <pleia2> yeah 17:40 <dholbach> Maia and Nigel took it over and even set up a domain for it 17:41 <dholbach> at least that's how I remember it 17:41 <dholbach> but yeah, that'd be great to have again for sure 17:41 <Laney> http://behindthecircle.org/ 17:41 <dholbach> ah yes 17:41 <pleia2> I can follow up with them 17:41 <dholbach> <3 17:41 <Laney> aww, look at bdrung_'s little smiling face 17:41 <pleia2> #action pleia2 to follow up with behindthecircle.org status 17:41 * meetingology pleia2 to follow up with behindthecircle.org status 17:42 <Laney> thanks! 17:42 <dholbach> laney: I have to meet up with him again - I'm sure he's still smiling exactly like this :) 17:42 <dholbach> all right, thanks a lot laney! 17:42 <dholbach> #topic Any other business 17:42 <dholbach> does anyone have any other business to discuss? 17:43 <dholbach> there's at least nothing on the agenda page 17:46 <Laney> the list of candidates for the TB - how were they selected? I didn't see any call; was it done in private? 17:46 <dholbach> laney: I don't know where it was, but wasn't there a call for nominations? 17:47 <Laney> if there was then I missed it 17:47 <Laney> was it handed to you guys as a finished list? 17:48 <pleia2> sabdfl picks them 17:48 <pleia2> no call for nominations 17:49 <Laney> I see 17:50 <dholbach> I found http://www.mail-archive.com/technical-board@lists.ubuntu.com/msg01199.html 17:50 <dholbach> maybe from there folks mailed Mark 17:50 <dholbach> but I don't know for sure 17:50 <dholbach> all right... anything else? 17:51 <pleia2> I think that's it, thanks dholbach! 17:51 <dholbach> thanks a bunch everyone! 17:51 <dholbach> #endmeeting