15:01 <slangasek> #startmeeting 15:01 <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jun 26 15:01:36 2013 UTC. The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. 15:01 <meetingology> 15:01 <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired 15:01 <slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round 15:02 <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox stokachu) 15:02 <slangasek> barry doko ev slangasek xnox stgraber jodh bdmurray stokachu cjwatson 15:03 <barry> win! 15:03 <barry> image based updates: better logging; consistency in nomenclature between wiki and code. LP: #1191150. LP: #1192586. Fixing checksum checking. weekly meeting. 15:03 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 1191150 in Ubuntu system image "Save the.tar.xz and tar.xz.asc keyring files" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1191150 15:03 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 1192586 in Ubuntu system image "Add the current build number to the User-Agent" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1192586 15:03 <barry> python bug 16499 (-I "isolation mode") 15:03 <ubottu> bug 8727 in linux-source-2.6.15 (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #16499 [ACPI] Can't connect network with 3Com 3c556B" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/8727 15:03 <barry> flufl.bounce 2.2.1-1 15:03 <barry> objectives; patch pilot; random bits of system administration; being evil w/my new debian beta capsule 15:03 <barry> done 15:05 <slangasek> doko's on holiday 15:05 <slangasek> ev: 15:05 <slangasek> ... "debian beta capsule"? 15:05 <ev> ah right 15:06 <ev> - Lots of planning our way out of the Cassandra ENOSPC hell with the webops 15:06 <ev> team: 15:06 <ev> https://wiki.canonical.com/InformationInfrastructure/OSA/Projects/InProgress/UE/CassandraSpace 15:06 <ev> - Simplified: we're moving to Cassandra on Prodstack and Ceph, fast. 15:06 <ev> - We're going to keep under 1TB per node, which should help us quite 15:06 <ev> significantly with compactions, enabling compression, general performance, 15:06 <ev> and dealing with losing a node. 15:06 <ev> - The existing DC cluster will become the testbed for compression and 15:06 <ev> Cassandra 1.2.5, then will get absorbed into Prodstack. 15:06 <ev> - We'll build a secondary cluster on Prodstack, in prep for having a hot 15:06 <ev> standby, further experimentation, and Hadoop. 15:06 <ev> - Increasing our metrics via statsd and graphite significantly in preparation 15:06 <ev> for the Ceph move, so we can get a deep understanding of the performance 15:06 <ev> penalty. Also moving away from Cassandra for storing metrics as a matter of 15:06 <ev> consistency. 15:06 <ev> - Added a path to graphite on the retracers. 15:06 <barry> slangasek: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraman 15:06 * barry is probably dating himself ;) 15:06 <slangasek> :) 15:06 <ev> I've been catching up on Cassandra SF and Cassandra NYC '13 videos in my free time, making thorough notes in the hope I can point people at the better talks 15:06 <ev> (done) 15:07 <ev> already proving helpful in discussions with James and Tom though 15:08 <slangasek> * discovering plymouth is somewhat on the floor on i386 (bug #1187318) and spending an inordinate amount of time trying to debug this 15:08 <ubottu> bug 1187318 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "Splash skips text when asking for LUKS password" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1187318 15:08 <slangasek> * ongoing work on supporting repartitioning of android devices at bootstrap time 15:08 <slangasek> * N7 has been given lower priority, so I no longer have to deal with the madness of the completely non-standard GPT on there 15:08 <slangasek> * instead, focused on worrying about getting parted support into the recovery image so we can use it 15:08 <slangasek> * objectives-wrangling 15:08 <slangasek> (done) 15:09 <xnox> * Upstart: 15:09 <xnox> - code review and merges for 1.9 release 15:09 <xnox> - discussions about plumbers upstart talk 15:09 <xnox> - upstart in debian, raising discussion about init scripts 15:09 <xnox> development + ongoing job forwarding / replying to maintainers' 15:09 <xnox> questions. 15:09 <xnox> * android-cross-toolchain: 15:09 <xnox> - gcc4.8 built android images do not boot, whilst other compilations 15:09 <xnox> are ok (e.g. busybox binary works). Identified 15:09 <xnox> http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=57221 in progress to 15:09 <ubottu> gcc.gnu.org bug 57221 in libgcc "[4.8/4.9 regression] libgcc symbol visibility changes break Android blobs" [Normal,Unconfirmed] 15:09 <xnox> recompile and try toolchain with patch from above bug. 15:09 <xnox> * miscellanious: 15:09 <xnox> - fixed fallout from ubiquity moving from gksudo to pkexec. 15:09 <xnox> bug #1193526 . Turns out pkexec, doesn't exec much on lxde/xfce. 15:09 <ubottu> bug 1193526 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Clicking "Install Xubuntu 13.10" in live session doesn't work." [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1193526 15:09 <xnox> - synchronising packages & forwarding my ubuntu patches to debian. 15:09 <xnox> - merged e2fsprogs, uploaded hyphen-ru & oo.o-hyphenation to fix 15:09 <xnox> bug #1187250 15:09 <ubottu> bug 1187250 in openoffice.org-hyphenation (Ubuntu) "package hyphen-ru (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/hyphen/hyph_ru_RU.dic', which is also in package openoffice.org-hyphenation 0.6" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1187250 15:09 <xnox> done 15:10 <jodh> * misc: 15:10 <jodh> - On holiday until Thursday 20th. 15:10 <jodh> - Working on Debconf and Plumbers presentations. 15:10 <jodh> * Upstart: 15:10 <jodh> - Fixed and merged lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/bug-1188642 15:10 <jodh> - Merged lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/bug-1159895 15:10 <jodh> - Merged lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/libupstart. 15:10 <jodh> - Worked on lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/allow-multiple-cmdline-confdirs 15:10 <jodh> with xnox. 15:10 <jodh> - Release prep for Upstart 1.9 with xnox. 15:10 <jodh> 𐎪 15:10 <jodh> stgraber: oops - sorry! :) 15:10 <stgraber> jodh: hey, that was my turn ;) 15:10 * bdmurray will wait 15:10 <stgraber> Blueprint-related work: 15:10 <stgraber> - Image based updates (BLUEPRINT: foundations-1305-image-based-updates) 15:10 <stgraber> - Implemented some more tools (trigger the mirrors, generate keyring signatures, switched to sha256, ...) 15:10 <stgraber> - Pushed a few test images to the production server 15:10 <stgraber> - Opened RT to get the production GPG keys setup, should happen this week 15:11 <stgraber> - Had a couple of meetings on the subject 15:11 <stgraber> - Clarified some details in the specs 15:11 <stgraber> Other work: 15:11 <stgraber> - Ubuntu touch 15:11 <stgraber> - Updated my test code for loop-mount images to work on nexus4 and nexus7 15:11 <stgraber> - Some more discussions on partitioning and containers 15:11 <stgraber> - Looked into cherry-picking pidns and mntns patches into the 3.4 kernel used on mako (to get lxc-attach working), seems trickier than expected but will spend some more time on it today. 15:11 <stgraber> - Discussed udev vs ueventd 15:11 <stgraber> - LXC 15:11 <stgraber> - Prototyped a minimal dbus service for LXC 15:11 <stgraber> - Discussed integration of upstream LXC with OpenStack 15:11 <stgraber> - Usual code reviews 15:11 <stgraber> - Release 15:11 <stgraber> - Alpha-1 release engineering work 15:11 <stgraber> - Landed a couple of fixes and tweaks to the QATracker for the self-service rebuild feature 15:11 <stgraber> - Landed the first version of the self-service rebuild tool on nusakan, running every 5 minutes 15:11 <stgraber> - Other 15:11 <stgraber> - Fixed openvpn component mismatch 15:11 <stgraber> - Did SRU validation of an ubiquity bug 15:11 <stgraber> 15:11 <stgraber> TODO: 15:11 <stgraber> - TODAY: Try to cherry-pick pidns+mntns support into our mako kernel (needs a few changes to the code to strip userns references) 15:11 <stgraber> - TODAY: Objectives 15:12 <stgraber> - THIS WEEK: Switch to production GPG keys 15:12 <stgraber> - THIS WEEK: Write a tool to convert Android system.img into .tar.xz format (similar to what we have for the rootfs) 15:12 <stgraber> - THIS WEEK: Integrate the system-image module with cdimage to publish updates to the daily channel as they appear 15:12 <stgraber> - Write some tools for manual actions on system-image (manage channels, manage keyrings, manually publish updates, ...) 15:12 <stgraber> - Process some pending merges (ifupdown and resolvconf) 15:12 <stgraber> 15:12 <stgraber> (DONE) 15:12 <bdmurray> code reviews for evan 15:12 <bdmurray> reported errors bug 1193022 regarding NotFound exception 15:12 <bdmurray> worked around LP: #1186215 by adding laney to list of cached teams 15:12 <bdmurray> modified phased-updater to account for something already set to 0 15:12 <bdmurray> modified phased-updater email code to keep track of package versions 15:12 <bdmurray> modified phased-updater to use a tmpfile during html report writing 15:12 <ubottu> bug 1193022 in Errors "tastypie not returning NotFound exception error message" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1193022 15:12 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 1186215 in Daisy "Timed out while loading subscriptions for most-common-problems" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1186215 15:12 <bdmurray> modified phased updater to control sending email via a switch 15:12 <bdmurray> modified phased-updater to have a switch for displaying full updates 15:12 <bdmurray> merge proposal for phased-updater code 15:12 <bdmurray> resolution of issue with date updated in arsenal team assigned report 15:12 <bdmurray> readded update-notifier watching for avahi disabled for non upstart user sessions 15:12 <bdmurray> worked on making package hooks part of update-notifier be an upstart user job 15:13 <slangasek> xnox: so I noticed you said the toolchain won't be uploaded to the archive until next month... are you hedging? What are the chances it'll still be uploaded this week? 15:13 * Laney giggles 15:13 <bdmurray> tested bug 1181424 regarding dist-upgrades and rsyslog 15:13 <bdmurray> tested bug 1062688 regarding apport (seems edubuntu specific) 15:13 <bdmurray> triage of bug 1187250, 1193346 15:13 <bdmurray> SRU verification of bug 1192332 15:13 <ubottu> bug 1181424 in rsyslog (Ubuntu) "cannot upgrade i386 raring to saucy" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1181424 15:13 <ubottu> bug 1062688 in apport (Ubuntu) "cannot submit bugs through ubuntu-bug program in live session when localized" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1062688 15:13 <ev> thanks for looking into those, bdmurray 15:13 <ubottu> bug 1187250 in openoffice.org-hyphenation (Ubuntu) "package hyphen-ru (not installed) failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/usr/share/hyphen/hyph_ru_RU.dic', which is also in package openoffice.org-hyphenation 0.6" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1187250 15:13 <ubottu> bug 1193346 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "oem config shortcut not present in oem installations" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1193346 15:13 <ubottu> bug 1192332 in update-manager (Ubuntu Raring) "SRU of change to phased updater percentage calculation to consider source not binary packages" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1192332 15:13 <bdmurray> ubuntu-classroom session regarding good bug reports 15:13 <bdmurray> irc discussion with security team regarding bug 1094777 and copying the package to security 15:13 <ubottu> bug 1094777 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Can't use c-n-r-gtk to initiate Quantal -> Raring update" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1094777 15:13 <bdmurray> ⌁ done ⌁ 15:13 <stokachu> Need nomination approval for bug 1062265, Need Sponsorship for python-boto in the precise unapproved queue, Would like to get status update from cyphermox or others wrt bug 1004775, Need Upload/Sponsorship for bug 1187524 15:13 <ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 1062265 could not be found 15:13 <ubottu> bug 1004775 in network-manager (Ubuntu Precise) "NetworkManager restarts dnsmasq and adds host route on every IPv6 route lookup" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1004775 15:13 <ubottu> bug 1187524 in wpasupplicant (Ubuntu Precise) "Frequent disconnects under certain network conditions" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1187524 15:14 <stokachu> sec 15:14 <cjwatson> there's no nomination on bug 1062265, private bug 15:14 <cjwatson> 1194901? 15:14 <stokachu> yea copied the wrong one 15:14 <cjwatson> no, that doesn't have any noms either ... 15:14 <stokachu> bug 1068145 15:14 <ubottu> bug 1068145 in puppet (Ubuntu Precise) "Fix for CVE-2012-3867 (puppet) is too restrictive - TLS certificates now break" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1068145 15:14 <stokachu> there we go 15:14 <stokachu> (done) 15:15 <cyphermox> stokachu: I uploaded a NM to precise queue for 1004775 15:15 <cyphermox> (last week) 15:15 <cjwatson> approved those nominations 15:15 <xnox> slangasek: if it compiles something that can be executed and doesn't segfault, if can be uploaded this week. working on making that to happen. Not sure what hedging means.... gardening term?! 15:15 <stokachu> cjwatson: thanks 15:15 <stokachu> cyphermox: was that to address comment 23 in that bug? 15:16 <cyphermox> stokachu: yes 15:16 <stokachu> (sorry i havent looked at the upload changelog) 15:16 <stokachu> cyphermox: awesome thanks a bunch! 15:16 <slangasek> xnox: hedging a bet, so that you don't lose everything if you bet wrong :) 15:16 <slangasek> nothing related to shrubberies with a nice two-level effect 15:16 <stokachu> oh and if anyone is friends with debian ftpmasters to please have them approve sosreport :D 15:17 <cjwatson> community-s-autopkgtesting: Spent a fair bit of time on support, and chasing down strange migration failures. Almost there now. There's still a problem with failures getting lost, I think, although it seems to be on jibel's side. 15:17 <cjwatson> foundations-1305-click-package: Finalised click-package 0.1 format; uploaded to saucy. Discussed QtCreator integration with bzoltan. 15:17 <cjwatson> foundations-r-phased-updates: Implemented "set phased update percentage on copy" API in LP. Awaiting review (https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/copy-set-phase/+merge/170775). 15:17 <cjwatson> foundations-1305-arm64-bringup: Trying to resurrect my autobuilder again. Having trouble with Canonistack not doing what it's told. Again. 15:17 <cjwatson> Fixed https://launchpad.net/builders occasionally returning Forbidden (https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/builders-visibility/+merge/170818, https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/testfix-builders-visibility/+merge/170941). 15:17 <cjwatson> Added another small LP API export required to allow managing chroots over the API (https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/das-removechroot-api/+merge/171125) and wrote a manage-chroot client tool for ubuntu-archive-tools. 15:17 <cjwatson> Merges/syncs: mlocate, nginx, pacemaker, openhpi, patchutils, syslinux, java3d, collectd, sqlite3, haskell-hoogle, git-annex, raincat, haskell98-report, haskell-readline, libgdchart-gd2, hocr, findutils, console-tools, man-db, manpages-zh, libgd-gd2-perl, pytables, libgd-gd2-noxpm-perl, automake1.11, php-horde-whups, php-horde-wicked, crystalspace, polybori 15:17 <cjwatson> Fixed software-properties autopkgtest. I think. Took several tries. 15:17 <cjwatson> .. 15:18 <slangasek> stokachu: 1062265 appears to be the private bug; is there a corresponding public bug filed against the package for this? 15:18 <slangasek> ah, 1194901 15:18 <cjwatson> no, 1068145, you're behind :) 15:18 <stokachu> slangasek: cjwatson got it 15:18 <stokachu> lol 15:18 <slangasek> ok 15:19 <xnox> slangasek: not intentionally. 15:19 <stokachu> slangasek: cyphermox uploaded a new network-manager for bug 1004775 15:19 <ubottu> bug 1004775 in network-manager (Ubuntu Precise) "NetworkManager restarts dnsmasq and adds host route on every IPv6 route lookup" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1004775 15:21 <slangasek> xnox: well, I would say yes you're hedging, which is fine ;) Just wanted to understand where things were and if you were still hoping to make progress this week 15:21 <slangasek> stokachu: ack - will try to help get that SRU queue down this week (since I didn't last week, meh) 15:22 <slangasek> any further discussion over statuses? 15:22 <stokachu> cyphermox: bug 1187524 is that on your list to upload soon? 15:22 <ubottu> bug 1187524 in wpasupplicant (Ubuntu Precise) "Frequent disconnects under certain network conditions" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1187524 15:22 <stokachu> slangasek: awesome, thanks man 15:22 <cyphermox> stokachu: also in the queue: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/142753746/wpasupplicant_0.7.3-6ubuntu2.2_source.changes 15:23 <stokachu> cyphermox: awesome, thanks again 15:24 <slangasek> [TOPIC] system image updates 15:24 <slangasek> ok, so we discussed last week having topics for deeper discussion 15:24 <slangasek> I picked an easy one to start us off... stgraber and barry have plenty to tell us about system image updates :) 15:24 <slangasek> remember, this isn't a lecture... ask questions! 15:24 * slangasek cedes the floor 15:25 <barry> does anybody not know what system image updates is generally about? 15:25 <slangasek> barry: maybe drop a blueprint / spec link, just in case? 15:25 <barry> sure, sec... 15:25 <stgraber> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ImageBasedUpgrades 15:26 <stgraber> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-1305-image-based-updates 15:26 <barry> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-system-image 15:26 <barry> stgraber: do you want to start? :) 15:26 <stgraber> sure 15:27 <stgraber> So basically we're working on the update mechanism for touch devices. Those won't use the good old apt+dpkg combo but instead have that done in the DC and delta images pushed out to the users. 15:28 <stgraber> the infrastructure is split into 3 main pieces, the server, the client and the upgrader 15:28 <stgraber> barry is in charge of the client, ondra is in charge of the upgrader and recovery environment and I'm doing the server side of things 15:29 <stgraber> What that means is that at least initially touch devices won't touch archive.ubuntu.com, instead they'll get full system updates from system-image.ubuntu.com and apps from the click package repository 15:29 <slangasek> do you guys have an estimate of how much download savings this would give us today? 15:31 <stgraber> probably not much as in the end we grab the same content, though in .tar.xz form so maybe slightly more compressed than some of our current packages and we'll skip some paths in the near future 15:31 <barry> two things to consider, overall download size and number of connections. certainly on the latter, it's vastly reduced (but not entirely trivial due to having to grab multiple data files and signature files) 15:31 * slangasek nods 15:32 <stokachu> stupid question but will this be limited to wifi only? 15:32 <slangasek> but a big benefit is increased reliability, and a less disruptive cadence of applying the updates 15:32 <stgraber> the main advantage is on the install time/CPU side of things as we install those in the DC and then push a delta of the installed system, we don't need to run any maintainer script and so should be much faster at actually applying changes 15:32 <slangasek> stokachu: I think that'll be configurable 15:32 <stgraber> the other main advantage is that we know exactly what's on every devices as they're all identical 15:32 <barry> stokachu: so, there's also this related thing called the download service 15:32 <stgraber> this should make testing much much easier 15:33 <stokachu> ah ok 15:33 <stgraber> the downside however is that we required a reboot to apply updates as we're doing that from the recovery environment 15:33 <stgraber> *require 15:33 <barry> mainly it's being developed for apps, but we think it won't be too hard to adapt it to image updates too. it'll be a generic dbus service that interfaces w/ui and settings, and downloads files for us. it will support wifi-only, suspend/resume, etc. 15:34 <barry> for now at least mandel is developing the download service 15:35 <stokachu> its this a totally separate build infrastructure? 15:35 <stgraber> at this point we have a working command line client thanks to barry, we have a mostly working server and have some test images of the updated recovery environment 15:35 <xnox> QUESTION: in a flipped model what will be recovery environment? something akin android recovery or ubuntu's own recovery? 15:35 <stgraber> I have hope of having all three pushed to test images by early next week so we can test the whole thing 15:35 <stgraber> xnox: currently it's based on CWM, so Android 15:36 <xnox> ack. 15:36 <stgraber> it's not out of the question to switch to an Ubuntu based initrd for recovery, but we'd then have to port the Google tools to it (to allow for rollback to Android) 15:36 <slangasek> stokachu: the image updates are built in much the same way as the install images; they'll be constructed from packages in the archive 15:36 <stokachu> slangasek: gotcha 15:36 <stgraber> so for now it seemed easier to hack the existing environment to include the tools we need (tar, xz and gpg) 15:38 <slangasek> stgraber, barry: what's the overall plan for dealing with packages that have maintainer scripts that need to be run at upgrade time? 15:39 <stgraber> slangasek: we haven't looked into that specifically, however we have a "bootme" flag we can set which forces a reboot after applying the update, so in such case, we'd need to have something trigger at boot, run the action and write a stamp file 15:39 <slangasek> ok 15:40 <stgraber> as far as I know, we haven't run into any of those yet as the number of files and directories I'm marking as persistent is very limited (basically just log files and NetworkManager config/state) 15:40 <stgraber> but I expect we'll see some of that in the future 15:40 <slangasek> I think you'll want to look at this sooner rather than later, as maintainer scripts can find themselves needing to do random things on the filesystem at any time :) 15:40 <slangasek> and for the rest of the team, note this means that if you're adding things to maintainer scripts in the base system, you might want to flag those to stgraber + barry for consideration on how to handle in the image update case 15:41 <stgraber> I expect we'll have a list of all persistent paths published somewhere once we've done the flip to read-only rootfs 15:41 <cjwatson> Some kind of written guidance on which kinds of things matter would be good, yes 15:41 <cjwatson> Since we'll have to keep up with Debian changes too, perhaps\ 15:41 <barry> these probably won't have any impact on the client, but will have a bigger impact on the recovery/updater 15:41 <slangasek> barry: true 15:41 <stgraber> after that, we'll need to be told of any maintainer script afecting some of those 15:42 * slangasek nods 15:43 <xnox> ... and dpkg triggers 15:43 <xnox> (to a lesser extend than interesting upgrade scripts) 15:43 <slangasek> so I think this is going to need to be automated somewhere along the line... probably by something that examines the before/after while generating the update tarball 15:43 <stgraber> now, something I didn't mention here yet, is that we have two types of updates we support, delta and full. Most users will be using delta images to get from where they are to the latest version. Full images are there for initial installation and for cases where we can't resolve a path using deltas (or where such a path would be larger than a full). 15:44 <slangasek> and can give us a report of what needs to be handled 15:45 <xnox> stgraber: interesting thought can't the cdimage builder take old image & upgrade it, instead of building afresh? thus executing maintainer scripts, at least to compare to a fresh build one to detect anomalies. 15:45 <barry> the client looks at all possible paths from where you are to the latest version, then applies a configurable heuristic to the candidates to choose a winning upgrade path 15:46 <stgraber> xnox: it could but I don't see what that'd give us. We're interested in maintainer scripts that change files that aren't in the base image, so analyzing changes to the base image won't help us there. 15:46 <xnox> i see. ack. 15:46 <barry> candidate selection does not take into account the bootme flag, but downloading/reboot does, so it's possible that a phone may need to do multiple such calculations to get to the latest version 15:49 <stgraber> oh, one more thing worth mentioning, we plan on letting developers move to "developer mode" 15:49 <stgraber> doing so will grab any required files we removed from the base image (such as /var/lib/dpkg /var/lib/apt), then write a stamp file letting the initrd know that / should be read-write 15:50 <stgraber> from that point on, you can do whatever you want on the rootfs but won't be able to use barry's tool anymore (until you flash a new full image and remove the stamp file) 15:50 <barry> LP: #1192577 15:50 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 1192577 in Ubuntu system image "Support for switching to apt-get mode" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1192577 15:51 <slangasek> and then somewhere down the line, having some magic that let us install packages with apt-get *without* having to be in "developer mode" would be rather nice, for convergence 15:51 <slangasek> but that's not a problem to solve for this cycle :) 15:52 <stgraber> right, I have a work item to look into that for 14.04 but it's tricky :) 15:52 <stgraber> if any of you want to test loop-mounted read-only saucy flipped image on your nexus4 or nexus7, you can use: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5801861/ 15:53 <stgraber> it needs a bunch of tools to be installed: abootimg, android-tools-adb, android-tools-fastboot and android-tools-fsutils 15:54 <slangasek> and I understand flipped images are becoming the default this week some time 15:54 <slangasek> (hurray!) 15:54 <stgraber> it'll basically grab the current saucy rootfs and the current android for your device, patch those to work with loop-mount+read-only then generate a boot image and a system.img file to be uploaded to the data partition 15:55 <stgraber> just boot your device into recovery mode before you run the script and it'll do everything for you 15:55 <stgraber> slangasek: yeah, and hopefully flipped+read-only a bit after that 15:55 <slangasek> indeed 15:56 <stgraber> any questions? (4min left to the meeting) 15:56 <slangasek> stgraber, barry: very exciting stuff, thanks for giving us a glimpse into your progress 15:57 <barry> np! 15:57 <stokachu> when can i start playing candy crush :) 15:57 * stokachu hides 15:57 <stgraber> :) 15:58 <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB 15:58 <slangasek> ok - anything else we should cover today? (sorry, I should probably have asked for this /before/ going deep on system images) 15:59 <slangasek> thanks to everyone who updated their work item status today 15:59 <slangasek> and if you haven't already done so, please do :) 15:59 <cjwatson> When Canonistack stops hating me I should be able to finish off my last couple 16:00 <slangasek> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/canonical-foundations-ubuntu-13.06.html is still looking a bit unrealistic vs. the trendline... though better than yesterday 16:00 <cjwatson> We should get the trendlines updated to reflect a realistic start point, mind 16:01 <slangasek> that too :) 16:02 <slangasek> #endmeeting