17:09:05 <cprofitt> #startmeeting
17:09:05 <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Feb 21 17:09:05 2013 UTC.  The chair is cprofitt. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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17:09:22 <pleia2> hello
17:09:29 <cprofitt> Hello everyone and welcome to the CC meeting
17:09:48 <cprofitt> today we will be touching base with the IRC Council and Developer Advisory Team
17:09:54 <dholbach> I see we have a number of IRC Council people here. :)
17:09:57 <cprofitt> are people here from IRC Council?
17:10:02 * cprofitt smiles
17:10:06 <dholbach> And a bit fewer DAT people too. :)
17:10:09 <AlanBell> hi cprofitt
17:10:14 <Tm_T> moin
17:10:16 <topyli> o/
17:10:23 <funkyHat> Hello
17:10:35 <Tm_T> all but one from ircc, nice
17:10:38 <cprofitt> great, lets start with the IRC Council
17:10:43 <cprofitt> #topic IRC Council
17:11:15 <cprofitt> #chair czajkowski dholbach pleia2 YokoZar
17:11:15 <meetingology> Current chairs: YokoZar cprofitt czajkowski dholbach pleia2
17:11:32 <dholbach> how are you all doing? how has the cycle been for the IRC Council so far?
17:12:35 <czajkowski> anyone can answer :)
17:12:57 <AlanBell> hi dholbach, I think this cycle has been fine, a bit quieter than the previous one perhaps
17:13:22 <AlanBell> we did operator recruitment again, and k1l joined the team
17:13:38 <AlanBell> doing recruitment in line with the development cycles still seems to make sense to me
17:13:52 <dholbach> AlanBell, was it because of less planned work for the cycle or because of less adhoc "let's get the IRC Council involved" requests?
17:13:53 <Tm_T> as I've been aboard on council for half a year, I've felt we've been basicly just doing what we always do, nothing special lately
17:14:04 <cprofitt> are all operator teams well staffed?
17:14:32 <AlanBell> all operator teams seem appropriately staffed, we have not really had any issues of a lack of operators
17:14:47 <cprofitt> good to hear
17:15:01 <AlanBell> dholbach: a bit of both, we made some changes in the prior cycle and had stuff like the Lubuntu operators to bring in etc
17:15:52 <AlanBell> one thing I want to look at soon is disaster recovery for ubottu.com, that server had some reliability issues before christmas and we are a bit more dependent on it than I would like to be
17:16:15 * cprofitt nods
17:16:19 <dholbach> do the IRC Council is down to the bottom of their TODO list? :)
17:16:29 <czajkowski> AlanBell: do you feel it's a quieter cycle as it's the council has been organised and things are running smoothly ?
17:16:49 <AlanBell> well there is an email in my inbox now that has arrived on the todo list, I think you all have a copy of that too
17:16:54 <cprofitt> AlanBell: is ubottu currently a single server solution?
17:16:59 <Tm_T> cprofitt: yes
17:17:06 <AlanBell> don't really want to go through that until we have all read it
17:17:06 <cprofitt> AlanBell: yes, we got that email
17:17:14 <cprofitt> same here AlanBell
17:17:24 <Tm_T> czajkowski: from long time ops POV I'd say we've quite estamblished team so things are bound to run rather smoothly
17:17:36 <cprofitt> Tm_T: would you be looking at an HA solution or just a disaster recovery?
17:17:45 <AlanBell> disaster recovery
17:17:49 <Tm_T> ^
17:18:00 <czajkowski> Tm_T: that's good to hear.
17:18:08 <czajkowski> AlanBell: is there anything the CC can help with ?
17:18:19 <AlanBell> we are cool with it being down for a few hours, but if it went and didn't come back we would be a bit annoyed
17:18:28 <AlanBell> so we want a plan for that
17:18:41 <dholbach> do you have new community members helping out in the irc world?
17:18:48 * cprofitt nods to AlanBell
17:18:57 <Tm_T> I wouldn't mind having more fresh blood in our ranks but as IRC administration is easily rather heavy duty I understand why we don't have that much changes
17:19:12 <Tm_T> dholbach: some, but more wouldn't hurt ^
17:19:32 <AlanBell> there are a few regular helpers who are not ops
17:19:50 <AlanBell> some don't really want to be ops, which is fair enough
17:20:06 <dholbach> did some of them take the ubuntu irc members route?
17:20:14 <czajkowski> Tm_T: why do you say it's heavy duty ?
17:20:42 <AlanBell> we have yet to award a membership, but we do have M4V on our agenda as a membership application
17:21:19 <Tm_T> czajkowski: you know how high-paced #ubuntu can be and when we're doing our work we often face rather abusive response
17:21:31 <Tm_T> and sometimes decisions have to be done rather quickly
17:21:47 * cprofitt nods at Tm_T
17:21:56 <czajkowski> ok
17:22:26 <Tm_T> I would love to way a find to lower the barrier to get into our irc team activity, something that doesn't necessarily require op rights
17:22:32 <Tm_T> +find
17:22:36 <cprofitt> Tm_T: I think there is also a realization by ops that they often represent the face of Ubuntu to users on IRC and their actions will really reflect on the project as a whole
17:22:48 <Tm_T> cprofitt: that, very much so
17:23:37 <pleia2> I think there was a UDS session that discussed some tasks others could take on, like bot wrangling and updating of docs
17:24:13 <Tm_T> yup, that's one thing
17:24:28 <dholbach> do you have a gut feeling for how well channels like #ubuntu are running, compared to earlier times? more/less bans? more/less complaints? more/less stress?
17:24:48 <cprofitt> good question dholbach
17:25:21 <dholbach> I just thought that the team must surely have gotten some experience over the last cycles, which probably helped
17:25:36 <dholbach> but yeah, just a gut feeling would be good to hear from you :)
17:25:38 <Tm_T> I feel things are more settled these days as the community has matured somewhat, others might see it differently though ):
17:25:40 <AlanBell> it goes up and down, we have 1859 users in there at the moment, which is quite a lot, I think the number of bans has probably gone down
17:25:43 <Tm_T> (: even
17:26:33 <Tm_T> I spend more time on other channels than #ubuntu so my perspective contains those too
17:26:39 <AlanBell> I might try and do some stats on the frequency of bans and kicks issued
17:26:48 <Tm_T> AlanBell: that would be nice
17:26:59 <AlanBell> we haven't done much time analysis on the data
17:27:02 <pleia2> gut-wise I've felt things be a whole lot calmer in irc-land
17:27:13 <cprofitt> I would agree pleia2
17:27:39 <Tm_T> pleia2: I have a feeling that our community has succeeded on creating an environment that helps on keeping bad behaviour limited (:
17:27:40 <pleia2> I do see a fair amount of "I can't get help in #ubuntu" but that's really an issue with the size of the channel, it's not really possible to avoid
17:27:46 <pleia2> Tm_T: yeah
17:27:56 <pleia2> and plenty of people do get help in #ubuntu
17:28:15 <AlanBell> there are also good, more focussed channels
17:28:27 <AlanBell> like #ubuntu-tablet/phone/steam
17:28:45 <AlanBell> so they are taking some of the chatter load out of #ubuntu
17:29:05 <pleia2> that's good
17:29:21 <Tm_T> and flavour channels ofcourse
17:30:20 <dholbach> is there anything the CC or the wider community could do to help?
17:30:26 <czajkowski> AlanBell: so now things are stable and working well, what would the IRC like to work on next?
17:31:01 <Tm_T> dholbach: I would love to improve communication between teams (hey, theme from UDS)
17:31:20 <Tm_T> I bet there's many ways how irc team could help other teams
17:32:04 <dholbach> Tm_T, nice one
17:32:18 <Tm_T> maybe we should advertise "we would love to help you, come and ask!" more or something
17:32:57 <pleia2> :)
17:33:10 <dholbach> maybe a session at open week or user days too?
17:33:18 <dholbach> (in case you haven't done one of these in a while)
17:33:52 * AlanBell wonders if there is a QML IRC client
17:33:56 <Tm_T> dholbach: perhaps, but it would be nice to know what others would need from us there (:
17:33:58 <pleia2> open week would be most appropriate, or stand alone sessions (I think we wanted some this cycle, but didn't get around to it yet)
17:34:18 <vibhav> AlanBell: I plan on writing one :)
17:34:48 <pleia2> Tm_T: aha, you have an action item :) https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-r-irc-workshops
17:35:13 <Tm_T> I do
17:36:22 <Tm_T> but yeah, more of those would be good
17:37:17 <dholbach> any more questions? :)
17:37:21 * dholbach is all set
17:37:26 <czajkowski> likewise
17:37:32 <cprofitt> I am as well
17:37:33 <czajkowski> as we do have another board to get through
17:38:00 <cprofitt> #topic Developer Advisory Team
17:38:10 <AlanBell> perhaps some CC folk could pop into #ubuntu-irc-council later to chat about the email we received
17:38:15 <cprofitt> welcome Developer Advisory Team!
17:38:18 <cprofitt> AlanBell: will do
17:38:33 <czajkowski> sure
17:38:35 <dholbach> vibhav, _o/\o_
17:38:48 <dholbach> hello hello :-D
17:38:51 <dholbach> got any questions for us? :)
17:38:52 <czajkowski> aloha :)
17:39:13 <cprofitt> so how has this cycle been for the team?
17:39:23 <czajkowski> dholbach: well I don't know much about the board, but I have seen it get involved in some discussion on the DMB, so I'm curious to know who the team is interacting with others and making progress?
17:40:04 <dholbach> what the DAT does is mostly reaching out to development contributors... to folks who just got their first patch into Ubuntu, so we can welcome them, help them and ask for their feedback
17:40:09 <vibhav> o/
17:40:32 <dholbach> but we also talk to more experienced people, ask for their feedback, help them apply for upload rights if we feel they're ready
17:40:37 <dholbach> and reach out to inactive folks as wlel
17:40:38 <dholbach> well
17:40:48 <vibhav> czajkowski: We recently had a meeting and we decided to work on some few targets
17:41:11 <dholbach> we brought vibhav and jokerdino on board a couple of months ago, which was necessary as some of our old members got quite active with life
17:41:43 <dholbach> the idea about working more closely with the DMB was in order to help developers who can apply for upload rights soon
17:42:20 <vibhav> We also aim to help members who are rejected
17:42:20 <dholbach> Iain Lane brought up the idea and we felt that it'd make sense to have a chat before folks apply, so we can either help fix the application or just take a bit more time until they apply
17:42:40 <czajkowski> aye Laney does get some good ideas alright :)
17:42:52 <Laney> meow
17:42:55 <pleia2> :)
17:42:58 <vibhav> czajkowski: Indeed
17:43:16 <czajkowski> dholbach: I see the DAT focuses a lot on the develpers who are already involved, how do you get new people who may be involved locally at loco level to take the plunge
17:44:01 <dholbach> that's nothing the DAT looks into really - we're mostly reacting to other people's contributions or lack of contributions I guess
17:44:12 <czajkowski> ah I see
17:44:18 <vibhav> czajkowski: dholbach maintains a list of New developers which is automatically updated
17:44:35 <ScottK> dholbach: It might make sense to review the applications on the next DMB meeting agenda and proactively give feedback to applicants if warrented.
17:44:44 <cprofitt> +1 ScottK
17:44:51 <dholbach> ScottK, nice one
17:44:56 <ScottK> (fwiw, we have a meeting Monday)
17:45:23 <dholbach> I'm in the middle of the craziest of weeks, but I'll add something to my list
17:45:30 <dholbach> and share it with the rest of the team
17:45:46 <ScottK> That would also avoid it looking like talk with the DAT before applying is an actual part of the application process.
17:46:00 <dholbach> no
17:46:03 <dholbach> I never said that
17:46:09 <ScottK> I understand.
17:46:12 <dholbach> it's not necessary and shouldn't be. :-)
17:46:35 <cprofitt> Is there anythink the CC can do to assist the DAT?
17:47:07 <dholbach> good question :)
17:47:23 <dholbach> vibhav, what do you think?
17:47:32 <dholbach> vibhav, do we maybe need more hands on deck? :)
17:47:38 <vibhav> dholbach: sure
17:47:47 <dholbach> that's the only thing I can really think of
17:47:54 <vibhav> We need people to help put with dat v2
17:47:56 <dholbach> we should probably start a call for contributors some time soon again
17:47:58 <dholbach> yes, that too
17:48:14 <dholbach> dat v2 is the tool we're working on to help us track contributions
17:48:30 <cprofitt> interesting sounding tool
17:48:31 <dholbach> we've in the process of moving off of something horrible to something nice and django based
17:48:40 <vibhav> The current tool we use is a bit broken
17:48:52 <dholbach> but as we're all involved in all kinds of other teams, we didn't really get much done yet
17:49:03 <dholbach> Andrew SB is putting some work into it right now
17:49:21 <dholbach> vibhav, I'll add something to my list, so we can talk about a call for help soon
17:49:38 <vibhav> Perfect
17:49:41 <dholbach> :)
17:49:49 <czajkowski> i take it some level of technical developer is needed in order to help out
17:50:53 <dholbach> with the dat v2 yes, in general to help out the team not necessarily, although it help if you have a bit of an understanding about ubuntu development or how the development teams here work
17:51:03 <vibhav> dholbach had written a small spec for dat v2
17:51:36 <vibhav> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-r-dev-advisory-team
17:51:41 <dholbach> vibhav, I'll have a chat with Andrew SB about it - once we have reliable data it should be much more fun to help out :)
17:52:15 <czajkowski> Is there a way the CC can help ?
17:52:35 <dholbach> not right now, but we might reach out to the CC some time in the future
17:52:55 <vibhav> I think reaching out for new contributors for dat v2 can help
17:53:58 <vibhav> Except that, we're quite fine as a team :)
17:54:53 <czajkowski> nods
17:54:54 <czajkowski> ok
17:54:55 <czajkowski> thanks
17:54:56 <czajkowski> :)
17:55:03 <vibhav> :)
17:56:04 <czajkowski> ok any other comments folks before we move on ?
17:56:04 <dholbach> more questions? Otherwise I'd think that's a wrap. :)
17:56:43 <czajkowski> going once
17:56:44 <czajkowski> twice
17:56:47 <czajkowski> gone
17:56:48 <czajkowski> :)
17:56:52 <czajkowski> #topic AOB
17:57:02 <czajkowski> anyting else we need to look at folks
17:57:07 <pleia2> I don't think so
17:57:16 <czajkowski> I know the IRC wants to follow up on stuff we can do that after the meeting or later on
17:57:29 <czajkowski> our trello looks up to date
17:57:52 <czajkowski> #endmeeting