18:03:22 <bobweaver> #startmeeting 18:03:22 <meetingology> Meeting started Fri Nov 30 18:03:22 2012 UTC. The chair is bobweaver. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. 18:03:22 <meetingology> 18:03:22 <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired 18:03:44 <bootidsa> Bettr give website for reference .. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntutv , i'll shutup now... 18:03:46 <bobweaver> IdleOne, plz help me with bot ! lol 18:04:05 <bobweaver> Agenda Documentation: The wiki is kinda old and refers to unity 2d a whole lot 18:04:24 <bobweaver> so I got a email asking me "how to help with docs " 18:04:29 <jhodapp> hello all :) 18:04:32 <bobweaver> I noticed alot of things 18:04:42 <bobweaver> all the Unity 2d stuff needs to come down 18:04:46 <bobweaver> agree ? 18:04:53 <tgm4883> yea 18:04:58 <tgm4883> I see no point in having it up there 18:05:04 <bobweaver> like the getting involed pages 18:05:18 <bobweaver> any nahs on this ? 18:05:26 <tgm4883> the getting involved pages should point out how to contact us to help 18:05:29 <bobweaver> hello jhodapp 18:05:32 <tgm4883> and also link to the demo stuff 18:05:44 <tgm4883> but definitely remove the "building ubuntu tv 2d stuff" 18:05:54 <bobweaver> so like add a link to the old stuff in the new page tgm4883 ? 18:06:12 <tgm4883> eh, no 18:06:19 <bobweaver> explain plz 18:06:26 <bootidsa> i vote to change the wiki to 3d as described . 18:06:27 <tgm4883> write a quick summary of how to demo the stuff via the PPA you made 18:06:41 <bobweaver> ok 18:06:42 <tgm4883> remove the "this is how you build it", until you can build it on unity 3d 18:06:55 <bobweaver> tgm4883, there is good news on that btw 18:07:12 <tgm4883> you can build it and all our work is finished? :) 18:07:25 <bobweaver> anyone else got anything to says about doc's ? 18:07:35 <CrestedNewt> I am happy to help out here 18:07:40 <bobweaver> lol tgm4883 never 18:07:57 <bobweaver> CrestedNewt, that would be great would you see me after the meeting ? 18:07:57 <tgm4883> I need to write some docs on the mythtv integration 18:08:05 <CrestedNewt> will do 18:08:08 <tgm4883> but I need to finish converting everything first 18:08:10 <bobweaver> thanks CrestedNewt 18:08:25 <bobweaver> anyone else got anything to says about doc's ? 18:08:33 <bootidsa> no 18:08:49 <bobweaver> cool 18:09:02 <bobweaver> Agenda for docs is now done ! yeah 18:09:13 <bobweaver> Agenda: New Members Updates and Keeping people busy+happy 18:09:24 <bootidsa> I noted that Acer was mentioned on Target Platforms 18:09:28 <bobweaver> docs kinda help with this 18:09:53 <bobweaver> we *NEED* more Unity people esp nux people to help me 18:09:54 <bootidsa> Ican only help with Artwork, sorry. 18:09:55 <tgm4883> IIRC, there is no target platform other than x86/x86_64/ARM 18:10:24 <bobweaver> anyone know Unity 3d devs ? 18:10:38 <bootidsa> not well enough. 18:10:44 <jhodapp> bobweaver, yes :) 18:10:47 <bobweaver> can talk with them to put up with my bs ? get them to become new members ? 18:11:07 <bobweaver> cool jhodapp 18:11:21 <bobweaver> anyone else got ideas to bring in new members ? 18:11:31 <bobweaver> fbook g+ ect ? 18:11:37 <bootidsa> magazine ? 18:11:39 <bobweaver> spam the forums ? 18:11:46 <jhodapp> bobweaver, I think those are good methods, but having some cool defined tasks to do would help 18:11:52 <tgm4883> well besides social networking, I think we need to have a community type meeting 18:11:55 <CrestedNewt> don't spam - gets people backs up 18:12:02 <tgm4883> but I was going to bring that up during the meeting agenda item 18:12:22 <bobweaver> cool maybe we should come back to that ? 18:12:35 <tgm4883> sure 18:12:36 <bootidsa> Yes the google plus side of things is vacant .. and this where we could shine ..be happy to contribute .. whio does the group on G+ ? 18:12:48 <tgm4883> the ubuntu tv team ;) 18:13:10 <bootidsa> What is 'there' profile link on G+ ? 18:13:24 <tgm4883> https://plus.google.com/b/104659991254860976283/+UbuntuTV/posts 18:13:26 <bobweaver> I have admin rights to g+ most the team does if they do not then contact mhall 18:13:34 <bootidsa> I>@E> who do I send links to to celebrate Ubuntu TV ? 18:13:34 <bobweaver> or mailing list 18:13:41 <tgm4883> bootidsa, I think there is a better link, I just don't recall it right now :) 18:13:47 <tgm4883> mhall119 knows 18:14:03 <bobweaver> bootidsa, yeah contact mhall119 18:14:14 <bobweaver> he is are community manager 18:14:18 <bootidsa> tgm4883, OK can you send it to porridge@trisquel.im when you have a moment ? 18:14:31 <tgm4883> https://plus.google.com/+UbuntuTV 18:14:45 <tgm4883> that is the better link :) 18:15:10 <bobweaver> cool well lets think about new member's and come back to that unless you have something that you are dieing to say 18:15:32 <bootidsa> Ok I'l just +Ubuntu TV in myb posts .. but an email would be sufficient really. 18:15:53 <bootidsa> not at mo. 18:16:03 <bobweaver> Agenda: new members done ? 18:16:29 <bobweaver> Agenda: Unity 3d :: Advancements and hold backs 18:16:48 <bootidsa> pass. brb. 18:16:56 <bobweaver> ok so I have made a new standalone mode that one can now use and frame is def comming togeather 18:17:21 <CrestedNewt> good job! 18:17:23 <bobweaver> people can test and also give me feed back though it is no where near done 18:17:46 <CrestedNewt> I can test as an EU if that helps 18:17:47 <bobweaver> CrestedNewt, if you like after the meeting we can talk and this is something thta I would like to see in docs 18:18:01 <CrestedNewt> sure 18:18:04 <bobweaver> let me take a pic real quick 18:18:26 <jhodapp> nice bobweaver 18:19:11 <bobweaver> http://imagebin.org/237706 18:19:33 <bobweaver> as you can see there is now a binary that builds when unity 3d builds and one can launch that 18:20:21 <bobweaver> some of the hold backs that I am having is that I am just learning nux and having some of the layering is hard for me but I am learning 18:20:28 <bobweaver> stupid widgets 18:20:31 <bobweaver> :) 18:20:46 <bobweaver> but it is now in are trunk and one can use this 18:21:07 <bobweaver> I have not finshed by any means but there is least a start 18:21:34 <bobweaver> if anyone has questions about it feel free to email me or ping me on are channel 18:22:15 <bobweaver> I have not finshed channel view nor coverflow yet but got the binary there and it is now something that one can test 18:22:29 <jhodapp> bobweaver, have you ever chatted with any of the Nux developers in #ubuntu-unity before? 18:22:43 <bobweaver> but if you know Unity 3d devs esp NUX peps please send my way 18:22:48 <bobweaver> jhodapp, I try 18:23:03 <bobweaver> gotten some help but not that many people know about NUX 18:23:29 <jhodapp> bobweaver, no, but certainly the people who know the most about it (because they created Nux) are in that room 18:24:04 <bobweaver> jhodapp, I want to see if I can get jason to help me but cn never find him I should send him a email 18:24:22 <jhodapp> bobweaver, yeah, that's a good idea 18:24:38 <bobweaver> I asked the whole channel yesterday and today if they would show up for this 18:24:46 <jhodapp> bobweaver, it sounds like that's one of the best things to spend your time on for right now is getting a solid communication line open with the people who can help you with Nux 18:24:49 <bobweaver> but IDK if anyof them did 18:25:12 <bobweaver> jhodapp, you should help me with that as you are can emply 18:25:28 <bobweaver> pretty plz that is :) 18:25:34 <jhodapp> bobweaver, I can certainly ping people for you when you can't get their attention 18:26:02 <bobweaver> thanks jhodapp not sure if they take me for real yet + I ask dumg questions sometimes 18:26:15 <bobweaver> at any rate I will put that UP on my list 18:26:39 <bobweaver> any one else got anything to say about Unity 3d or questions ? 18:26:49 <CrestedNewt> the only way of learning is by showing ones ignorance 18:26:50 <bobweaver> integration that is ^^ 18:26:56 <jhodapp> bobweaver, no such thing as a dumb question (the only dumb one is the one not asked) 18:27:17 <CrestedNewt> jhodapp - well said 18:27:22 <bobweaver> I would also like to say that it is on raring :) 18:27:36 <tgm4883> no questions from me, I'll probably have some for you once I get the backend stuff to converted so we can test it 18:27:50 <CrestedNewt> nothing from me 18:27:53 <bobweaver> I am on raring so we are moving in the right direction which brings up new topic 18:28:14 <bobweaver> Agenda: Time-Line Due to the limited time that some of us have 18:28:43 <bobweaver> you all I am srry grinding the midnight oil on this project and I love it but not sure that this is going to be done in 5 months 18:29:06 <tgm4883> I think feature wise, timeline is up to the people doing the Unity 3D work (bobweaver) 18:29:22 <bobweaver> we might have to push things back a little but IDWT 18:29:34 <tgm4883> bobweaver, and feature wise, you only have until March 7th 18:29:35 <bobweaver> good point tgm4883 that is why I need some help 18:29:50 <bobweaver> I mean unity 3d has like 20 peps always working on it 18:30:01 <bobweaver> I have to keep up with that and I also have to add thing's 18:30:34 <bobweaver> like I spend more time (in the start) fixing unity and not even working on code 18:31:02 <CrestedNewt> bobweaver - what if you just sat on a LTS release as the basic libs, that do not change? 18:31:25 <CrestedNewt> then you are not always chasing your tail 18:31:28 <bobweaver> took me a day of re-writing cmakelist files to get to config but I have gotten some help with that and am past that hurdle 18:31:40 <bobweaver> CrestedNewt, that is a real real real real real good point 18:31:44 <bobweaver> and idea 18:32:05 <bobweaver> I for one love that idea that we will try to release a full version on next lts 18:32:08 <tgm4883> I still think something is wrong with how this this happening if Unity builds keep breaking 18:32:15 <tgm4883> but maybe it's just me being a Python dev 18:32:19 <tgm4883> jhodapp, ^ 18:32:31 <bobweaver> everything up to that will be Mockup stuff 18:32:51 <bobweaver> tgm4883, it is because *other* libs are always changing 18:32:51 <CrestedNewt> tgm4883 - but if Unity is always changing, there is no solid foundation 18:33:14 <jhodapp> tgm4883, what's the issue exactly, I don't quite follow 18:33:20 <CrestedNewt> without a solid foundation, bobweaver can't move forwards 18:33:39 <tgm4883> jhodapp, bascially, things in Unity keep changing and causing bobweaver to have to redo work 18:33:48 <bobweaver> kinda ^^ 18:34:09 <bobweaver> it was more that Unity would not build due to changes in libs 18:34:15 <bobweaver> but this has been fixed 18:34:29 <bobweaver> you know nux3 to nux 4 18:34:38 <bobweaver> libunity changing 18:34:39 <jhodapp> yes, that's a major change 18:35:12 <tgm4883> CrestedNewt, meh, not necessarily true. Sure things in Unity are changing. But lets take it from my perspective (admittedly a Python one). I import another library in python and use one of it's functions. That library might change over time, but as long as it still returns values that I would expect (not changing from a list to a dict) then my code is fine 18:35:19 <jhodapp> there's 2 options there though...you can keep tracking the latest of all of these libs (which might be a good idea), or you can say we're targeting version x or each lib like unity and nux 18:35:21 <bobweaver> I mean every one of unityshell/plugins/* needed new cmakelist file because it would not work 18:35:33 <bobweaver> not work = not installing and linking libs 18:36:10 <CrestedNewt> tgm4883 - I'm not a coder but was a problem and change manager for alarge international oild company looking after systems for europe 18:36:37 <CrestedNewt> tgm4883 - but i also understand where you are coming from 18:37:08 <bobweaver> jhodapp, both good ideas and I am tracking all bugs and changes to both tunk and stagging but then I see that staging is now going to chang to something else and who knows whta changes are going to come with that or if them libs are eeven goinng to make it into main 18:37:52 <bobweaver> that is my concerns as I could only find libs in stagging to make this work due to nux 4 18:37:57 <bobweaver> and other libs 18:38:28 <bobweaver> and if stagging is changing to something else and what if compiz from stagging is not included into main then kahput 18:38:32 <jhodapp> bobweaver, you're talking about package staging, right? 18:38:40 <bobweaver> yeah the ppa 18:39:00 <bobweaver> sorry about that Unity stagging ppa is what I am talking about 18:39:13 <jhodapp> bobweaver, ok, popey might be able to give you insights into your uncertainty there 18:39:16 <tgm4883> jhodapp, bobweaver one of our previous discussions was a point in time when Unity wouldn't even build by itself (without bobweaver's additions) 18:39:27 <tgm4883> which seems bad IMO 18:39:40 <bobweaver> and was bad 18:39:41 <jhodapp> tgm4883, unity trunk wouldn't build? 18:39:43 <bobweaver> belive me 18:39:46 <tgm4883> jhodapp, yea 18:39:56 <tgm4883> so bobweaver says, I didn't try it ;) 18:40:20 <bobweaver> would not build because main(ubuntu ppa) unity for raring is calling stuff from stagging . and it was a mess 18:40:32 <jhodapp> tgm4883, seems weird, a change usually won't get merged into trunk unless it passes the tests and the continuous integration build by QA 18:40:37 <bobweaver> like libs in main had not yet landed from stagging 18:40:46 <bobweaver> nux 4 compiz ect 18:41:25 <bobweaver> sence then I have changed the way that I am building this but once again I am not sure as to which one of the libs that Unity team is going to pick for there main 18:41:39 <bobweaver> but what hurt more was not just the libs 18:41:54 <tgm4883> I still think something is wrong here. From my point of view, the same issues would plague any Unity developer 18:42:05 <jhodapp> tgm4883, precisely 18:42:27 <bobweaver> it was the fact that cmakelist(s) needed to be re-wrote because they where erroroing out on config (cmake ../ -DCMAKE_INSTALL_.......) 18:43:14 <bobweaver> mainly plugins and makeing room for new binary for tv 18:43:20 <jhodapp> bobweaver, did you have anyone else try the same thing when it was failing just to confirm? 18:43:52 <bobweaver> you can look at change logs of branch to see what I had to do it is documented there 18:44:04 <bobweaver> jhodapp, yeah 18:44:06 <tgm4883> to continue progress in this meeting, I move to put this item on hold and continue. Either coming back to this at the end of the meeting (time permitted) or continue this discussion in the #ubuntu-tv channel 18:44:20 <bobweaver> unity team said "that si what where are fixing right now " 18:44:33 <bobweaver> good idea tgm4883 18:44:33 <jhodapp> bobweaver, ok 18:45:03 <bobweaver> New Agenda : Meetings Pick a day and time for recurring weekly meetings 18:45:26 <tgm4883> #subtopic Meetings Pick a day and time for recurring weekly meetings 18:45:29 <bobweaver> I like this time what do you all think about that ? is it good for you would sat be better ect 18:45:41 <tgm4883> I like this time 18:45:47 <bobweaver> jhodapp, ? 18:45:56 <bobweaver> CrestedNewt, ? 18:46:00 <CrestedNewt> I am flexible - some friday nights I'm out, some saturdays I'm out :D 18:46:05 <tgm4883> I don't like anything that gets into people's weekends 18:46:17 <bobweaver> that is a good point 18:46:19 <CrestedNewt> keep it to friday nights then? 18:46:31 <tgm4883> so mon - thurs might work better, but i'm in the US so it's friday morning for me :) 18:46:44 <CrestedNewt> I'm in the UK 18:46:51 <jhodapp> bobweaver, works for me 18:46:57 <bobweaver> lets wait for jhodapp and his input. I wish that we could also get will to show up he is AWESOME 18:47:01 <CrestedNewt> so I'm on GMT anyway 18:47:11 <bobweaver> well then settled ever fri at this time 18:47:17 <CrestedNewt> kk 18:47:20 <bobweaver> if alright with you all 18:47:28 <bobweaver> #vote 18:47:28 <meetingology> Please vote on: 18:47:28 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) 18:47:33 <bobweaver> +1 18:47:34 <CrestedNewt> +1 18:47:46 <bootidsa> +1 18:47:55 <tgm4883> +1 18:48:09 <tgm4883> bobweaver, I think you need votesrequired as well 18:48:23 <bobweaver> er I dont know how to use this bot lol 18:48:29 <bobweaver> #endvote 18:48:29 <meetingology> No vote in progress 18:48:32 <bobweaver> lol 18:48:39 <tgm4883> next topic 18:48:50 <bobweaver> form-factor 18:48:50 <bobweaver> josephjamesmills would like to work on using different form factors but can not figure out on his own, maybe if Unity people show up 18:48:54 <tgm4883> or I forgot the thing I was going to bring up ;) 18:49:11 <tgm4883> I'll come back to it 18:49:31 <tgm4883> This seems similar to the other Unity 3D items 18:49:42 <bobweaver> well that is pretty much covered in getting me some friends that will put up with my bs and teach me about form-factor 18:49:54 <bobweaver> unity 3d team ^^ 18:50:25 <bobweaver> I just need like 4 hours with a unity 3d dev to do a goolge hangout 18:50:52 <bobweaver> to teach me the stuff that I do not understand though I am RE unity 3d ok for the time being 18:51:26 <bobweaver> Next adgenda : from the wiki they are all covered . so if you got anything to add now would be the time 18:51:35 <tgm4883> community meetings 18:51:56 <tgm4883> I think the last meeting of the month should be a community meeting, where people could show up and ask any questions they have 18:51:57 <bobweaver> tgm4883, what do you mean ? 18:52:06 <tgm4883> hopefully this would get more people involved 18:52:12 <bobweaver> that is a great great great IDEA !!!! 18:52:26 <tgm4883> also, we wouldn't have to advertise every meeting every week every where, just the last meeting 18:52:30 <CrestedNewt> tgm4883 - that sounds like a great idea - but it needs to be focused 18:52:38 <tgm4883> CrestedNewt, focused on what? 18:53:09 <bobweaver> tgm4883, on are channel or should we make a channel ? #ubuntu-tc-community-meetup or whatever 18:53:12 <CrestedNewt> tgm4883 - sometimes at these types of meetings some ppl try and take over for their point only 18:53:27 <bobweaver> we can regulate that CrestedNewt 18:53:29 <tgm4883> bobweaver, on this channel 18:53:35 <CrestedNewt> ok 18:53:35 <bobweaver> lol tgm4883 18:53:41 <tgm4883> bobweaver, it would just take the place of our normal meeting 18:53:50 <bobweaver> on this channel ? 18:54:02 <tgm4883> bobweaver, isn't that where our normal weekly meeting will be? 18:54:15 <bootidsa> you advertis it on Google Plus too ! 18:54:29 <bobweaver> I will make youtube video 18:54:39 <bobweaver> and put on g+ about this ? 18:54:48 <bootidsa> yep. 18:54:48 <tgm4883> yea the idea would be for us to advertise it on all social media, website, etc 18:54:59 <bobweaver> tgm4883, that is a great idea 18:55:02 <tgm4883> and since it's once a month, we wouldn't be spamming everyone all the time 18:55:04 <bobweaver> so plush 18:56:34 <bootidsa> netsplit ! 18:57:00 <bobweaver> I would like to set up a community found that is for getting us "team members" hardware 18:57:06 <bobweaver> how can we do that ? 18:57:28 <bobweaver> jhodapp, that is more question for you ^^ 18:57:32 <bobweaver> I think 18:57:32 <tgm4883> bobweaver, do we need that? 18:57:38 <bobweaver> I do 18:57:40 <tgm4883> what kinda hardware? 18:57:45 <tgm4883> kind of* 18:57:47 <bobweaver> armel boards 18:57:53 <tgm4883> ah 18:57:55 <bootidsa> I have a spare Revo .. ? 18:58:13 <jhodapp> bobweaver, it's a good question, but I'm with tgm4883...what's wrong with using your PC? 18:58:15 <bobweaver> even if was remote at canonical office 18:58:28 <tgm4883> jhodapp I think it's for ARM stuff 18:58:37 <tgm4883> which I don't think he can test on a normal PC 18:58:43 <bobweaver> jhodapp, I was thinking that this most likly would be on arm and I can not afford anything 18:58:48 <jhodapp> tgm4883, yes, but why do you need to run on ARM today? 18:58:49 <bobweaver> I am super super super poor 18:58:52 <tgm4883> specifically with how usable it is on ARM 18:58:54 <CrestedNewt> I can try and talk to ARM as their head office is only about 45 mins away from me 18:59:09 <tgm4883> CrestedNewt, I don't think ARM makes any hardware? 18:59:19 <bobweaver> not today but raising money for devs can take time 18:59:21 <jhodapp> tgm4883, they make reference boards 18:59:39 <CrestedNewt> tgm4883 - no they don't but they have influence as the manufacturers basically build under license 18:59:53 <tgm4883> IMO, it needs to be off the shelf hardware 18:59:55 <CrestedNewt> of their tech 19:00:09 <bobweaver> listen I do not even want a board shiped to house I am just going to need stuff to test code on and run valgrind 19:00:30 <CrestedNewt> I'm with tgm4883 - lets get it out as a STB first - make other big brands sit up and take notice 19:00:30 <bobweaver> I can chroot and make virtual but that is not a real test 19:00:33 <tgm4883> bobweaver, jhodapp perhaps it's something that the canoncal testing lab can do 19:00:46 <bobweaver> I want to make sure that my code runs on arm and is not leaky 19:00:48 <tgm4883> CrestedNewt, I completely disagree with that, and that isn't our target anyway 19:01:01 <CrestedNewt> tgm4883 - ok 19:01:17 <jhodapp> but to bobweaver's point, considering how to get hardware today isn't a bad idea 19:01:22 <tgm4883> CrestedNewt, it's much easier to work with something open, rather than hack a tivo to run it on 19:01:28 <jhodapp> maybe we can ask for some community donations 19:01:42 <bobweaver> Like at next UDS if we could have boards to test valfrind reports 19:01:45 <bootidsa> kickstarter ! 19:02:06 <CrestedNewt> tgm4883 - agreed - I'm looking at mounting on the back of a screen with HW readily available 19:02:11 <bobweaver> IDK all I know is that I can not afford to by any because I have to feed my dog 19:02:12 <bobweaver> that is how poor I am 19:02:40 <jhodapp> bobweaver, nobody is asking you to buy one, use your PC for now 19:02:50 <bobweaver> bottom line is this. there is no why what so ever that I can afford anything like this and if it is going to go to skunkworks then what ? 19:03:08 <bobweaver> It was just a idea 19:03:48 <bootidsa> here's my G+ if anyone wants to hangout or follow me https://plus.google.com/103093000923989045518 19:03:55 <bobweaver> ok any dire things to cover ? 19:04:03 <tgm4883> nope 19:04:04 <cm-t> thanks bootidsa && hi * 19:04:24 <CrestedNewt> bobweaver - I'm with tgm4883 that it should only be off the shelf stuff. At the end of the day, if Ubuntu will run on it, Ubuntu-TV should also run on it 19:04:42 <bobweaver> +1 19:04:46 <tgm4883> +1 19:04:58 <bobweaver> lets take this to are channel 19:05:03 <bobweaver> #end meeting 19:05:05 <tgm4883> our* 19:05:06 <bobweaver> #endmeeting