#title #ubuntu-meeting: Weekly MOTU Meeting Meeting started by tumbleweed at 16:08:49 UTC. The full logs are available at http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-20-16.08.log.html . == Meeting summary == *Review of previous action items ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings/2012-09-06 (tumbleweed, 16:10:03) *Killing off sqlite 2 (src:sqlite) (tumbleweed, 16:10:24) *RC bugs in Ubuntu ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RCBugTargetting (micahg, 16:13:27) ''LINK:'' http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html (micahg, 16:14:34) *Killing off sqlite 2 (src:sqlite) ''LINK:'' https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ak2xRmRUt6S4dHZfZWdhbVdiMl9HbWRHazNfOFM1aWc (xnox, 16:28:24) *Update from DeveloperAdvisoryTeam *Review UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative (tumbleweed, 16:46:08) ''ACTION:'' jtaylor to look at producing a list of easy syncs (tumbleweed, 16:54:00) *any other business? Meeting ended at 16:59:30 UTC. == Votes == == Action items == * jtaylor to look at producing a list of easy syncs == Action items, by person == * jtaylor ** jtaylor to look at producing a list of easy syncs == People present (lines said) == * tumbleweed (58) * micahg (30) * xnox (23) * jtaylor (12) * meetingology (4) * debfx (1) == Full Log == 16:08:49 #startmeeting Weekly MOTU Meeting 16:08:49 Meeting started Thu Sep 20 16:08:49 2012 UTC. The chair is tumbleweed. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. 16:08:49 16:08:49 Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired 16:09:18 Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings 16:09:26 (nothing new, that I see) 16:09:32 * micahg has somethin 16:09:52 \o/ 16:09:56 #topic Review of previous action items 16:10:03 #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings/2012-09-06 16:10:24 #subtopic Killing off sqlite 2 (src:sqlite) 16:10:32 xnox: you had an action item 16:10:38 micahg: is this your something? 16:10:59 tumbleweed: no, although that one is looking more like a pipe dream ATM... 16:11:06 yeah 16:11:20 * micahg thinks he'd be tarred and feathered if he dropped asterisk... 16:11:29 hehe 16:12:14 well, that's it for the previous action items 16:12:21 micahg: what's your topic? 16:12:28 RC bugs in Ubuntu 16:12:38 #topic RC bugs in Ubuntu 16:12:41 micahg: all yours 16:12:54 (the bugs too, if you want) 16:13:25 we have a new wiki page explaining RC bug targeting 16:13:27 #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RCBugTargetting 16:13:32 tumbleweed: yes. I have updates =) 16:14:01 so, while in the past we've tried to keep up with RC bugs in Debian, we have our own as well that should be addressed 16:14:03 tumbleweed: poke me, when we can come back to that topic. 16:14:27 once the RC bugs are triaged by the release team, if they're targeted, they end up on this report 16:14:34 #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html 16:14:45 there's a universe section there that we should keep an eye on 16:15:20 indeed, we should 16:15:38 also, I've heard that some bugs have ended up on the wrong list and been marked rls-q-notfixing, we should probably review the bugs with that tag for any relevant universe bugs and make sure they're triaged appropriately 16:16:07 we should also think about if we want to drop packages with outstanding RC bugs before release (or try to SRU them shortly thereafter) 16:16:34 with a more active backports team now, dropped packages seem like less of an issue 16:16:50 I don't think there's much point in dropping packages until we start using that a lot more actively 16:17:09 otherwise it penalizes packages that have people paying attention to them 16:17:38 well, ideally, we'd try to fix the issues 16:17:58 so we should add reviewing that list as a standing agenda item 16:18:22 (and with my release team hat on, I should pay slightly more attention to bug targetting) 16:18:41 I had a WI to write criteria for dropping packages from multiverse/universe, I think it should be similar to Debian, RC bug open for 6 mo w/no attention (and I would think a dead/inactive upstream) 16:19:16 I can add something looking for these rc tagged bugs to http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~stefanor/ubuntu-neglected-packages/ 16:19:31 that's the testing drop criteria AIUI, but since we have no equivalent of unstable where packages can hide and not be released, I think we're forced to drop 16:20:05 well, RC is targeted + High/Critical importance 16:20:08 dropping will not really help for upgrades 16:20:43 so we still are likely to get complaints about the removed packages 16:20:46 jtaylor: true, people are stuck with the old version of the package, but if it gets fixed later and backported, they could get an upgrade 16:20:47 I thought the upgrader removed removed packages? 16:20:55 it offers to 16:23:10 done with this topic? 16:23:29 yeah, I think so 16:23:53 #topic Killing off sqlite 2 (src:sqlite) 16:23:56 xnox: 16:24:24 yeah. About GPE - it's a GTK based desktop envrionment target at small-screen device, e.g. phones. 16:24:31 it's quite dated and on life support. 16:24:47 but on enough life support that people want it in Debian? 16:24:58 after talking to upstream, they ported it from GTK+ 2 -> 3 and Sqlite 2 -> 3 16:25:11 oh, that sounds fairly alive 16:25:11 very rapidly. After like years on inactivity.... 16:25:28 maybe just waiting for a kick =) 16:25:33 it has popcon 0 16:25:44 still, we might have to wait a while for a new upstream release with these ports? 16:25:50 gtk3/sqlite3 is not release nor fully working yet. 16:25:53 awesome, can we get Debian to update? 16:25:56 oh :* 16:26:29 we could drop just drop it, it can come back later 16:26:48 but there's still more to drop before sqlite can go, right? 16:26:52 assumings its the only sqlite2 blocker 16:26:59 Debian maintainer said in private mail that killing sqlite2 is a bit pointless, ubuntu is not embedding friendly anyway and generally doesn't mind if ubuntu drops GPE and will not recommend upstream to port to newer API/ABI 16:27:01 so, we can just not block on gpe 16:27:20 i would like to recommend dropping those 14 package (gpe related) 16:28:16 yeah, I'd be for that if they're the last bastions of sqlite2 in the archive 16:28:24 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ak2xRmRUt6S4dHZfZWdhbVdiMl9HbWRHazNfOFM1aWc 16:28:35 I started marking stuff. 16:28:56 gambas2/3 is a programming language with sqlite2&3 binding -> drop sqlite2 bindings 16:29:00 (packages) 16:29:20 the new asterisk has all modules ported to sqlite3, so we'd just drop sqlite2 modules. 16:30:04 xnox: are there concerns with upgrades losing data or are the plugins smart enough to handle that? 16:30:05 that leaves chasing up csync2, kannel, qof, qsf, sqliteodbs and teleport (6) 16:30:36 micahg: plugins are not smart enough. Ideally people should not have been using sqlite2 plugins, but obviously if it's an old install they just carry on. 16:30:57 it's a shame that sqlite3 cannot read/convert sqlite2 databases, so my "upgrade plan" is 16:31:16 to keep sqlite2 for an extra release after we drop dependencies. 16:31:31 that will make LTS -> LTS upgrade 'interesting' 16:32:38 we probably should start dropping agressivly. then people will get the hint that they need to migrate using tools in precise 16:34:12 anybody knows how the rest of the world migrated from sqlite2 -> 3? 16:34:44 no idea :/ 16:35:11 probably happened years ago :-/ 16:35:26 before sqlite was really popular 16:35:46 Last sqlite2 release was Dec 2005 16:38:09 so, I can't see us dropping everything any time soon 16:38:20 but we could start disabling sqlite2 modules 16:38:32 micahg: even fedora still ships sqlite2 16:40:13 hrm, I guess we could wait one more release at this point, but I think asterisk would be a prime place to start dropping support for sqlite2 since it's already got its own security issues 16:41:44 no objection from me 16:41:49 shall we move on? 16:44:05 sure 16:44:32 #topic Update from DeveloperAdvisoryTeam 16:44:34 anyone here? 16:45:57 #topic Review UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative 16:46:08 #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative 16:46:33 I'm seeing quite a bit of activity on the missing homepages 16:46:45 don't know if we are hooking anyone, though 16:47:41 I recently proposed on -devel to add syncs/merges from wheezy to the list of easy fixes 16:47:56 they're not all necessarily easy 16:48:20 most of the syncs are 16:49:35 it's certainly something that new developers should learn 16:49:42 but it's going to be fairly far down the line 16:50:05 reviewing merges can be really hard (when nobody has cared about them for years) 16:51:11 we can do some prefiltering for new contributers 16:51:22 list merges where the versions are not far appart 16:51:31 or no mom conflicts 16:51:35 and that have a linked bug, fixed in debian? 16:51:55 an unblock already implies a fixed bug in most cases 16:52:05 that's a temporary thing until wheezy releases 16:52:17 yes but why not use this good oportunity? 16:52:34 oh, sure 16:52:50 want to prepare a list? 16:53:26 I can try, if my sql lacking skills don't get in the way 16:54:00 #action jtaylor to look at producing a list of easy syncs 16:54:00 * meetingology jtaylor to look at producing a list of easy syncs 16:54:14 #topic any other business? 16:55:00 chair for next week? 16:56:04 (ok, not next week, the week after) 16:57:01 come come 16:58:02 * micahg will be around, but quite busy 16:59:13 * tumbleweed presumably will be around too, but I tend to be at the pub 16:59:27 ok, let's call this 16:59:30 #endmeeting Generated by MeetBot 0.1.5 (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology)