15:00:37 <skaet> #startmeeting 15:00:37 <meetingology> Meeting started Fri Aug 10 15:00:37 2012 UTC. The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. 15:00:37 <meetingology> 15:00:37 <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired 15:00:48 <Riddell> hi 15:01:05 * stgraber waves 15:01:10 * smartboyhw waves 15:01:17 <sil2100> Hi everyone 15:01:19 <skaet> Agenda (and minute location): 15:01:19 <skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2012-08-10 15:01:19 <skaet> . 15:01:19 <skaet> Upcoming dates: 15:01:19 <skaet> 12.10 15:01:20 <phillw> o/ 15:01:21 <skaet> 2012/08/23: Quantal FeatureFreeze 15:01:22 <gema> o/ 15:01:23 <skaet> 2012/09/06: 12.10 Beta 1 15:01:25 <skaet> 12.04.1 15:01:27 <skaet> 2012/08/16: FinalFreeze, ReleaseNoteFreeze 15:01:29 <skaet> 2012/08/23: Ubuntu 12.04.1 15:01:31 <skaet> . 15:01:33 <skaet> Work Items: 15:01:35 <skaet> 2012/08/10 - 3010 (was 3001 (last week): We�ve gotten behind the trendline for some of the projects. There are only 2 weeks left until FeatureFreeze, so getting us back on track would be appreciated. 15:01:38 <skaet> Please help get us back where we should be by making sure https://launchpad.net/~/+upcomingwork is up to date for your tasks. 15:01:41 <skaet> . 15:01:50 <skaet> Bugs: 15:01:50 <skaet> Quantal: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html 15:01:50 <skaet> 12.04.1: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/milestone-12.04.1.html 15:01:51 <skaet> 12.04.1: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=49926 15:01:53 <skaet> . 15:01:55 <skaet> Weekly Status Received: 15:01:58 <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001712.html - PS(Unity) - sil2001 15:01:59 <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001713.html - Security - mdeslaur 15:02:01 <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001714.html - Community Testing - balloons 15:02:04 <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001715.html - Ubuntu One - joshuahoover 15:02:07 <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001716.html - Kernel - ogasawara 15:02:09 <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001717.html - Desktop - seb128 15:02:11 <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001720.html - Edubuntu - stgraber 15:02:13 <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001721.html - QA - gema 15:02:15 <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001722.html - Linaro - fabo 15:02:17 <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001723.html - Xubuntu - astraljava 15:02:19 <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001724.html - Kubuntu - Riddell 15:02:23 <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001725.html - Foundations - ogra_ 15:02:25 <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001727.html - Server - arosales 15:02:27 <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-August/001729.html - HW Cert - roadmr 15:02:29 <skaet> ?? - Ubuntu Studio - ScottL 15:02:31 <skaet> ?? - Lubuntu - gilir 15:02:33 <skaet> .. 15:02:35 <skaet> #Questions and Comments 15:02:37 <skaet> #topic Questions and Comments 15:02:46 <phillw> o/ 15:02:50 <mdeslaur> o/ 15:03:10 <skaet> hello everyone. :) 15:03:21 <skaet> phillw do you have a question, or just waving hello? 15:03:44 <smartboyhw> He meant a question, he o/ed before. 15:03:52 <phillw> skaet: a Question 15:03:57 <skaet> go ahead phillw 15:04:13 <phillw> what do you need from Lubuntu, you state no update. 15:04:32 <phillw> If Julien is busy (and I know he is), I can possibly furnish it 15:04:38 <skaet> phillw, email status update to ubuntu-release mail list. 15:04:58 <Riddell> phillw: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/Agenda/TeamTemplate 15:05:27 <skaet> look at the format of the other ones, just want to know what work has been happening, and if there are blockers/dependencies you're waiting on from other teams (or if you're landing something that other teams may care about) 15:05:29 <phillw> skaet: okies, he does fill one in each week at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/ReleaseStatus/Quantal i 15:05:55 <phillw> I'll have a look at the format and have a chat with Julien to ensure it gets filed. 15:06:39 <skaet> phillw, thanks. Please mail a copy to the list though so others can look at it before meeting, without having to remember separate paths. 15:06:58 <skaet> .. 15:07:04 <phillw> no worries, I will get it added to your template so you all have it. 15:07:29 <skaet> goodness. thanks! ..? 15:08:06 <skaet> phillw, done? ..? 15:08:17 * slangasek has a comment 15:08:19 <phillw> done :) 15:08:24 <skaet> coolio 15:08:42 <skaet> go mdeslaur 15:08:52 * skaet will ask slangasek after 15:08:52 <mdeslaur> hrm? 15:09:12 <mdeslaur> oh, sorry, I was just waving hello 15:09:15 <mdeslaur> .. 15:09:16 <skaet> mdeslaur, ah, just a hello after the Q&C part started then... ok, skipping. 15:09:22 <skaet> go slangasek 15:09:32 <slangasek> skaet: I'm very concerned about bug #1017001 15:09:34 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 1017001 in apt (Ubuntu Quantal) "package resolvconf 1.63ubuntu14 failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: pre-dependency problem - not installing resolvconf" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017001 15:09:35 <slangasek> for 12.04.1 15:10:11 <slangasek> we have not been able to reproduce this bug under lab conditions, so although it's still milestoned, there's been no forward progress on resolution, and it's a quite bad LTS->LTS upgrade bug 15:10:55 <slangasek> with bdmurray's help there've been some fixes to the apport handling that *should* let us capture better info the next time the issue hits a user 15:11:19 <seb128> hey 15:11:31 <slangasek> but we don't know how widespread it is going to turn out to be once we turn on LTS->LTS upgrades by default - it could be very spectacularly bad, or it could be a non-event 15:11:34 <seb128> sorry, calendar integration is broken on my quantal, I missed the reminder 15:12:53 <slangasek> skaet: so I would like to propose that, at the 12.04.1 release time, we *tentatively* turn on the LTS upgrades in meta-release, watch for new incoming traffic for a bit, and be prepared to revert meta-release if it turns out to be a problem... and only announce the point release after we've done this test 15:13:54 <skaet> slangasek, thanks for flagging. Would it be possible to do this test when we hit final freeze? since we shouldn't be changing after that, and that would give us a window to react before the point release is announced? 15:14:08 <gema> since we 15:14:08 <gema> shouldn't be changing after that, and that would give us 15:14:22 <gema> sorry, hit the wront button 15:14:35 <slangasek> skaet: well, it's possible, but that means some random selection of our users will get a surprise update to 12.04 a week before the announced milestone release 15:15:14 <skaet> slangasek, we could announce it as a candidate? and make it visible to minimize surprises? 15:15:26 <slangasek> personally I think it would be better to wait until the scheduled date to flip the switch 15:15:57 <stgraber> the alternative would be to release the point release at the announced date but saying that 12.04.1 upgrades will be made available to users over the coming days 15:16:10 <slangasek> I don't see any way to actually message it as a candidate... the users are going to find out about it when their computer suddenly tells them a new version is available 15:16:16 <stgraber> where we set the flag, wait a few hours, revert and then look for what bug traffic we got during the interval 15:16:54 <gema> shouldn't we be warning them that they may hit problems? 15:16:58 <skaet> slangasek, stgraber, ok, that will be the plan then. (was thinking an email to ubuntu-announce, but probably will cause more confusion than solve issue) 15:17:53 <stgraber> gema: we certainly need to have the bug in the release notes, though as we were never able to reproduce it, we don't know exactly in what state the system is, so we don't know how to recover from it 15:17:57 <slangasek> gema: it's a tradeoff. We have a total of 6 reports of this upgrade failure, from an unknown number of early-adopter upgraders from lucid; we have no idea if they're representative of the larger userbase or even how the error happened, as we've tried and failed to reproduce the failure using apt-clone data 15:18:40 <gema> stgraber: 15:18:43 <gema> slangasek: ack 15:19:11 <stgraber> I'm still hoping to hit that bug during my manual upgrades test, but out of the 20 or so I've done this week, it hasn't happened to me yet 15:19:14 <slangasek> skaet: sorry, to be clear, which will be the plan? 15:19:26 <stgraber> though I'm using clean and up to date 10.04.4 systems 15:19:59 <skaet> slangasek, we'll go with what you and stgraber recommend, put a release note in place, and make sure we have active monitoring after we flip the switch on release day. 15:20:01 <slangasek> gema: the other issue is that thanks to the previous security issues that led to us scrubbing apt-clone attachments, there's a good chance we'll never be able to reproduce the bug until we get another report of it :/ 15:20:40 <slangasek> skaet: and hold off on the announcement until we've gathered the data? 15:21:01 <slangasek> (which is what I'm recommending, but I don't think that's the same thing stgraber recommended :) 15:21:40 <skaet> slangasek, not sure I see the benefit of holding off on the announcement, but let me review the notes and talk to you about it next week. 15:21:50 <slangasek> ok 15:21:57 <slangasek> yeah, we can iron out the details outside the meeting :) 15:21:57 <stgraber> right, my recommendation was to publish the announcement for 12.04.1 as the media will be good but stating that upgrades will be progressively rolled out over the coming days. Letting us turn them on for a few hours, then off if we notice bug trafic 15:22:10 <skaet> also want to make sure we have a good monitoring plan in place. :) 15:22:56 <gema> skaet: I will ask someone in the team to try to reproduce next week 15:23:02 <gema> QA team, that is 15:23:05 <skaet> #action skaet, slangasek, stgraber - determine announcement and monitoring plan for https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017001 15:23:05 * meetingology skaet, slangasek, stgraber - determine announcement and monitoring plan for https://launchpad.net/bugs/1017001 15:23:08 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 1017001 in apt (Ubuntu Quantal) "package resolvconf 1.63ubuntu14 failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: pre-dependency problem - not installing resolvconf" [Critical,Confirmed] 15:23:15 <skaet> thanks gema. would appreciate that. 15:23:30 <slangasek> gema: any help reproducing it is certainly appreciated, but I don't have high hopes that you'll succeed in reproducing it 15:23:46 <gema> slangasek: we will at least try 15:24:36 <skaet> .. 15:25:00 <skaet> and since I don't see any more queued up o/, will go into some of mine, first of which is related ;) 15:25:05 <skaet> gema, is there anything showing up from the daily automated testing from precise that should be considered a blocker at this point, and can�t be release noted? (I agree that the left over files should be cleaned up, but figure that they can be release noted). 15:25:40 * skaet didn't see anything in the report from this week, but wants to double check since we're getting close now. 15:25:48 <ogra_> o/ ... /me has the general unpleasant compiz question for seb128 :) 15:26:15 <gema> skaet: nothing so far 15:26:27 <gema> skaet: will let you know as soon as we hit something like that 15:26:37 <skaet> thanks gema. :) 15:26:50 <seb128> ogra_, lol, I've the usual reply for you :p 15:26:58 <ogra_> :) 15:27:04 <ogra_> .. 15:27:42 <gema> skaet: just for the record, we are working on verifying 1029531, but I believe it is already fixed 15:27:59 <gema> .. 15:28:03 <stgraber> bug 1029531 15:28:05 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 1029531 in update-manager (Ubuntu Precise) "cdromupgrade from Lucid to Precise failed with unmet dependencies without network connection" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1029531 15:28:07 <skaet> based on discussion with stgraber this morning, we'll switch to build from -updates on monday, rather than today, so if there's any surprises on the monday night runs, please flag soonest. 15:28:31 <skaet> .. 15:29:19 * skaet sees that ogra_ and seb128 have handled ogra_'s question out of band, so.... continuing on. ;) 15:29:29 <seb128> he 15:29:31 <seb128> heh 15:29:35 <ogra_> *g* 15:29:37 <seb128> ogra_, to give a more complete reply 15:29:49 <seb128> they finally put the merge request for merging in trunk up today 15:29:54 <seb128> so I hope it's really close 15:30:08 <seb128> they consider it ready to be merged at least 15:30:15 <seb128> so if no surprise next week... 15:30:44 <seb128> .. 15:30:59 <skaet> seb128, The g-c-c patches are still blocked on taking a decision about llvmpipe. where are you waiting on a decision about llvmpipe from - upstream? likely to make before feature freeze? 15:31:17 <ogra_> yay 15:31:18 <seb128> that got decided 15:31:33 <seb128> basically llvmpipe is the answer they hopped it to be 15:31:37 <sil2100> From what I know we'll be trying to get the gsettings patches released tomorrow 15:31:39 <seb128> so we are dropping unity-2d 15:31:48 <seb128> and claiming that we stop supporting low end hardware 15:31:52 <sil2100> s/tomorrow/next week 15:31:59 <seb128> we will redirect those users to 12.04LTS probably 15:32:04 <seb128> that's still being discussed 15:32:09 <seb128> since that's quite a big shift 15:32:18 <seb128> .. 15:32:35 <ogra_> seb128, how much has that llvmpipe stuff been tested on arm ? 15:32:45 <ogra_> (or on anything we ship) 15:32:46 <seb128> ogra_, it doesn't work on arm 15:32:51 <seb128> as said it's not a reply 15:32:59 <ogra_> so whats my fallback on the arm images then ? 15:33:02 <seb128> it's 3d driver or use 12.04LTS 15:33:12 <seb128> ogra_, I though gles was working on the pandaboard? 15:33:20 <ogra_> so i should ship 120.04 alongside on arm ? 15:33:28 <ogra_> no, it doesnt 15:33:32 <ogra_> we cant ship the dirver 15:33:32 <seb128> :-( 15:33:50 <ogra_> it does once you have (like on an nvidia PC) installed the third party driver 15:34:04 <ogra_> but there is only framebuffer X on first boot 15:34:06 <seb128> "great" 15:34:20 <balloons> There *was* a project that seems to have dried up to create an OSS driver for it 15:34:21 <seb128> well, those questions are actively discussed between PS, Jason, Rick, etc atm 15:34:32 <ogra_> thats the same for all arm platforms btw, all are like nvidia (even worse most of the time) wrt licensing 15:34:38 <seb128> so I've no reply yet on what we will suggest for you 15:35:00 <ogra_> would have been good to have an arm person involved ;) 15:35:10 <ogra_> anyway, not your prob .. 15:35:11 <ogra_> .. 15:36:16 <skaet> seb128, where will this end up getting documented, since its going to be pretty visible? (am thinking that the beta release notes at a minimum, but probably want something wider) 15:36:49 <seb128> skaet, I will have responses to that we will have decisions on what we do exactly 15:36:57 <seb128> it's an hot topic and still being actively discussed 15:37:08 <seb128> I will let the release list and people know when we have a decision 15:37:14 <skaet> seb128, fair enough. :) Thanks. 15:37:15 <seb128> then we can figure where to announce it 15:37:17 <seb128> yw 15:37:21 <skaet> .. 15:38:25 <skaet> balloons, you asked are we tracking things that failed to make it into the previous milestone and marking them for the next milestone? yes, its one of the checklist steps for a release to work through all the milestoned bugs and retarget them to the next milestone. A3 pass is still needs to be finished, A1/A2 have been done. 15:38:52 <balloons> skaet, thank you. I assumed so, I just hadn't seen it happen for a3 yet, so :-) 15:39:26 <skaet> balloons, :) will be finished this afternoon. Was working on 12.04.1 stuff. ;) 15:39:40 <skaet> .. 15:40:44 <skaet> astraljava, any smoke testing of 12.04.1 images been done? if so, any issues/concerns showing up? 15:41:23 <astraljava> skaet: Some testing has happened, but I haven't compiled results thus far. 15:41:32 <astraljava> I'll try to do so over the weekend, and report back. 15:41:35 <astraljava> .. 15:41:40 <skaet> Thanks astraljava :) 15:41:41 <skaet> .. 15:41:58 * skaet looks around if anyone else has questions (o/)? 15:42:51 <skaet> If not, last comment is that some teams have burn down charts that are starting to look seriously behind. 15:43:26 <skaet> Please mark the features that are clearly not going to make it in by feature freeze in 2 weeks. 15:43:53 <seb128> skaet, stop looking at the foundation team :p 15:44:01 <skaet> lol 15:44:16 <seb128> joke aside I'm concerned that the upstart improvements we were said would land this cycle will not 15:44:18 * skaet was trying to be tactful, but there are a few others as well... 15:44:30 <seb128> it's somewhat a concern for desktop 15:44:34 * sil2100 hides 15:44:43 <skaet> slangasek, ogra_ ^ 15:45:12 * ogra_ thoght jodh just landed a bunch 15:45:34 <ogra_> seb128, which are missing ? 15:45:44 <seb128> ogra_, things discussed at UDS I didn't see yet 15:45:51 <seb128> XDG_RUNTIME_SUPPORT 15:45:58 <seb128> logind support 15:46:05 <seb128> user session jobs 15:46:14 <ogra_> oh 15:46:15 <seb128> I guess some of those will not land this cycle 15:46:24 <seb128> but having a status update would be good, we have work blocked on those 15:46:31 <seb128> the XDG_RUNTIME_SUPPORT one is important 15:46:36 <ogra_> ok if i get you one next meeting ? 15:46:42 <seb128> dconf segfaults on NFS and ecryptfs regularly without it 15:46:45 <ogra_> i need to collect info on that 15:46:50 <seb128> it's one of the most common errors on e.u.c 15:46:55 <seb128> ogra_, sure 15:46:58 <seb128> ogra_, thanks 15:47:04 <ogra_> thx, will update you as soon as i have it 15:47:08 <ogra_> .. 15:47:10 <skaet> seb128: any update on http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/group/topic-quantal-desktop-greeter-lockscreen.html ? 15:47:27 <skaet> since we're going into specifics... ;) 15:48:24 <seb128> skaet, I postponed it to next cycle 15:48:41 <skaet> seb128, can you update the blueprints to reflect that. 15:48:47 <seb128> yes 15:48:51 <skaet> Thanks! 15:48:56 <seb128> I updated https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-q-system-compositor 15:49:01 <seb128> but forgot about the topic one 15:49:22 <skaet> thanks seb128 :) 15:49:34 <skaet> anyone else? 15:49:35 <skaet> .. 15:50:03 <skaet> #endmeeting