14:00:58 <balloons> #startmeeting Ubuntu QA
14:00:58 <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jun 20 14:00:58 2012 UTC.  The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
14:00:58 <meetingology> 
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14:01:05 <phillw> o/
14:01:06 <balloons> Hello everyone
14:01:14 * pitti waves hello
14:01:53 * hggdh waves discreetly
14:02:08 <balloons> hggdh, :-)
14:02:26 <balloons> [TOPIC] Previous Actions
14:03:10 <balloons> I don't believe we had any.. just checking to confirm :-)
14:03:16 <balloons> Nope, k
14:03:22 <balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Updates
14:03:38 <balloons> hggdh, care to talk a bit about ubuntu?
14:03:44 <hggdh> heh
14:04:07 <hggdh> We are going on nicely. There was a bit of a scare yesterday, with bug...
14:04:10 * hggdh goes check
14:05:02 <hggdh> bah, cannot find it. But it was a problem with dpkg amd multiarch
14:05:34 <hggdh> that caused dpkg to completely fail to work. Corrected yesterday, and a new dpkg is now available
14:06:19 <hggdh> apart from that, it is business as usual. We have pretty much been able to provide working images continuously this cycle
14:06:28 <hggdh> well, almost continuously ;-)
14:06:30 <hggdh> ..
14:07:07 <balloons> :-)
14:07:17 <balloons> I saw gema talk a bit about UTAH
14:07:33 <balloons> what's going on now with that? Is there a meeting place for people interested now?
14:08:00 <hggdh> there is a mailing list for -- ubuntu-utah-dev@lists.ubuntu.com
14:08:26 <hggdh> anyone interested can subscribe, and we expect it to be low-volume
14:08:55 <hggdh> we do not have meetings or presentations scheduled for UTAH right now
14:09:12 <hggdh> but we can set one if there is a need
14:09:29 <balloons> are you able to demo it hggdh ?
14:09:57 <hggdh> no, I am not -- I am just now getting to use it. Sorry
14:09:59 <hggdh> but
14:10:23 <hggdh> UTAH is currently limited to dealing with VMs (specifically libvirtd)
14:10:40 <hggdh> support for bare-metal installation and testing will come in a few weeks
14:11:10 <balloons> thanks hggdh
14:11:13 <hggdh> the whole idea of UTAH is to provide a common base for test submission and control (and, up to a point, reporting)
14:11:33 <balloons> questions?
14:12:52 <balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Flavor Updates
14:13:09 <balloons> phillw, care to start us off?
14:13:36 <phillw> all quiet on lubuntu, just one bug that seems possibly hardware related.
14:14:07 <phillw> they're finalising off the applications that will be included by default
14:14:22 <balloons> any big changeups?
14:14:50 <phillw> nothing as yet, the application changes are planned after A2, afaik
14:15:45 <phillw> they're testing the applications before inclusion, so hopefully there will be very little impact on the iso (famous last words!).
14:16:09 <phillw> that's all from me :)
14:16:20 <balloons> hehe!
14:16:32 <balloons> alright, let's see.. how about xubuntu?
14:16:41 <astraljava> Yes, hi.
14:16:49 <balloons> howdy astraljava
14:17:09 <astraljava> Well, we have finally had some testing, and the tests have gone pretty nicely, a few bugs of course.
14:17:34 <astraljava> We're having the team meeting right after this one, and I want to discuss our participation on Alpha-2 milestone.
14:17:47 <astraljava> My personal opinion is that we should do it, but let's see.
14:18:08 <astraljava> I just started to gather data through the xml-rpc interface, but haven't really made it there, yet.
14:18:23 <astraljava> But it'll be of more value during the milestones, anyway.
14:18:42 <astraljava> We've also started to enhance our testcases.
14:19:10 <astraljava> During one of those discussions, some confusion arose about the categorization of bugs.
14:19:24 <astraljava> But we should talk about them later this meeting.
14:20:00 <astraljava> That's pretty much it for Xubuntu. No questions? Moving on. *smirk*
14:20:03 <astraljava> ..
14:20:08 <balloons> astraljava, sounds good, we'll discuss the bug issue in a moment
14:20:21 <balloons> alright, kubuntu?
14:22:31 <balloons> mythbuntu?
14:24:03 <balloons> edubuntu?
14:24:35 <balloons> :-) ubuntu studio?
14:24:45 <astraljava> Still here. :)
14:24:57 <balloons> yes, take two astraljava
14:25:09 <highvoltage> sorry what meeting is this again?
14:25:21 <balloons> hey highvoltage :-)
14:25:24 <astraljava> Studio is a bit of a poor puppy here. We haven't had a working image since $deity_remembers_when.
14:25:25 <highvoltage> heya balloons
14:25:40 <balloons> this is the qa community meeting
14:25:49 <highvoltage> ah ok
14:26:12 <astraljava> Contributions to the flavor has been to a minimum. We have left packages hanging in the FTBFS state for way too long.
14:26:40 <balloons> k.. so plans for alpha 2?
14:26:45 <balloons> going to skip?
14:26:46 <astraljava> Also there were some changes in the infrastructure (xfce4), which we just neglected to react to.
14:27:11 <astraljava> My feeling is yes, that'll be likely.
14:27:42 <astraljava> Unless something miraculous happens during the few upcoming days, definitely.
14:28:12 <astraljava> Things are picking up, though, so still very much looking for the Beta milestones.
14:28:31 <astraljava> ..
14:28:54 <astraljava> looking forward*
14:29:24 <balloons> sounds good
14:29:33 <balloons> alright any last questions before we move on?
14:29:46 <balloons> [TOPIC] Other Topics
14:30:17 <balloons> So, I have an update to talk a little about, but we'll start with your bugs questions astraljava
14:30:43 <astraljava> Alright, so we chatted about the critical bugs vs. just bugs on the tracker.
14:31:18 <astraljava> We did agree that whenever you stumble upon a bug that is not highly relevant to the testcase, you can mark the test as passed, but mention the bug number.
14:31:48 <astraljava> But where we didn't come to a conclusion is, and my question is: What exactly is a critical bug?
14:31:56 <astraljava> Failing to install? Sure.
14:32:14 <astraljava> But other parts? What's your take on it over at the vanilla side?
14:32:35 <balloons> we just had this same discussion
14:32:48 <balloons> I was hoping to remove the concept of "critical bugs" and go with just bugs
14:33:26 <balloons> however, as it stands the definition is something that prevents the testcase from passing
14:33:37 <balloons> in other words, in the testcase failed, you should file a critical bug
14:33:52 <balloons> if it didn't fail any bugs you found are just bugs
14:34:08 <astraljava> Yeah, but some parties were of the opinion that only the uninstallability marks the test as failed.
14:34:18 <astraljava> But I was thinking more of the releasability.
14:34:19 <balloons> if it failed, and you found other bugs which didn't neccessary lead to it failing somehow, you could also have just bugs on a normal entry
14:34:36 <balloons> well, testcases are diverse
14:35:01 <balloons> so it may very well install but fail the arch check or something
14:35:10 <balloons> by the current definition, it would still be crtiical
14:35:31 <balloons> I can't remember where we left the discussion ATM
14:35:51 <astraljava> Right, so if you may, I'd present the exact case that lead us bickering; our case wants to check for possible USB sticks, and mounting them.
14:35:52 <balloons> it's probably worth continuing on the mailing list / opening a bug against the ubuntu qa website
14:36:33 <astraljava> Now I agree that the case should be worded better. But what good is mounting a stick, if you cannot browse it? That's what happened with the tester. dmesg correctly identified the stick, but thunar couldn't browse it.
14:37:00 <astraljava> Nevermind the beef of the case here, but I would want the guidelines clear for any similar cases in the future. :)
14:37:31 <phillw> I'd consider not being able to browse a mounted usb stick as critical.
14:38:04 <phillw> though as to which application to file it against... that is another matter.
14:38:09 <astraljava> Yeah, me too; again with the releasability, I would not release such an image where file browsing of removable media doesn't work. :)
14:38:11 <balloons> well, my idea was the terms are confusing and unneeded. Simply note the bugs filed when they happen
14:38:18 <balloons> lp will take care of severity
14:38:58 <astraljava> That's true. So we'll just figure out inside the project, whether the bug constitutes the test as failing or passing?
14:39:36 <balloons> well, I mean if the test fails, it fails
14:39:41 <balloons> etheir way you note the bugs
14:40:00 <balloons> as far as when you release and what you release it's up to the team
14:40:10 <balloons> you can release note (almost) anything ;-0
14:40:46 <astraljava> Right. Well let me put it another way; are there situations where a point in the testcase fails, but will not fail the whole test?
14:41:20 <astraljava> Or are all points critical in that sense; fail any, and the whole test is marked as failed.
14:43:07 <balloons> astraljava, right.. as of now, everything is crticial
14:43:15 <balloons> if ANYTHING fails, the whole thing fails
14:43:31 <astraljava> Ok, thanks. We'll just have to be careful with the wording, then. Cheers! :)
14:43:41 <astraljava> ..
14:44:34 <balloons> ok, from my end, I'll be quick, we're running out of time. phillw and myself prototyped out the structure for the new testcase mgmt on the tracker
14:44:53 <balloons> i'll be migrating over the first testcases today and sending a mail off for feedback
14:45:22 <balloons> so look for that, and be sure and share your thoughts. We'll discuss the admin side in more detail tomorrow @ the roundtable..
14:46:47 <balloons> A new team has been created in order to help maintain testcases.. I'll be asking some folks who are already involved to help staff it. The goal is to get a good group of trusted folks to maintain and expand the tests over time
14:47:17 <balloons> that said, anyone can 'file a bug' to add a new testcase or issue a correction to a testcase
14:47:43 <balloons> The testcase format hasn't changed, but I will be sending it around as well
14:47:48 <balloons> Any questions?
14:48:58 <balloons> for flavors it should allow you to setup testcases for your images, using the ubuntu testcases as needed.. So it should work out nicely
14:49:22 <astraljava> Looking forward to seeing that. Good job!
14:49:48 <balloons> stgraber has been wonderful in helping us get this all done.. be sure and thank him
14:50:17 <balloons> alrighty, any final questions or comments?
14:50:34 <phillw> o/
14:50:55 <balloons> yes phillw
14:51:09 <phillw> I will not be here next meeting, I'm hoping to have cover in place; but cannot guarantee.
14:51:17 * balloons notes that his IRC client really refuses to tab-complete phillw's name
14:52:16 <balloons> no worries phillw.
14:52:44 <balloons> if no one is able to fill in, we'll catch up the following week
14:52:48 <balloons> alright folks, that's a wrap!
14:52:52 <balloons> thanks for coming out everyone
14:52:58 <balloons> #endmeeting