#title #ubuntu-meeting Meeting Meeting started by dholbach at 16:02:47 UTC. The full logs are available at http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-06-14-16.02.log.html . == Meeting summary == *meeting times *MOTU School (Bhavani Shankar) *Review MOTU/FAQ/New_Draft (Bhavani Shankar) ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/Requests might be useful content to review (dholbach, 16:17:45) *https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative ''LINK:'' http://lintian.ubuntuwire.org/quantal/tags.html (Laney, 16:46:18) ''LINK:'' http://lintian.ubuntuwire.org/quantal/tags/debhelper-but-no-misc-depends.html for packages that have an Ubuntu diff might be good. (ScottK, 16:47:55) ''LINK:'' http://lintian.ubuntuwire.org/quantal/tags/brace-expansion-in-debhelper-config-file.html (Laney, 16:48:59) ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative (dholbach, 16:52:41) Meeting ended at 16:57:09 UTC. == Votes == == Action items == * (none) == People present (lines said) == * dholbach (97) * vibhav (36) * Laney (20) * coolbhavi (17) * ScottK (15) * AnAnt_ (14) * Riddell (7) * cjwatson (5) * meetingology (3) * micahg (2) * statik (1) == Full Log == 16:02:47 #startmeeting 16:02:47 Meeting started Thu Jun 14 16:02:47 2012 UTC. The chair is dholbach. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. 16:02:47 16:02:47 Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired 16:03:05 it seems the agenda is pretty much the same as last time: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings 16:03:15 but we can use that to catch up on the things we talked last time 16:03:26 #topic meeting times 16:03:51 so the last time we said this: 16:03:53 Proposals: either keep time 16 UTC (every 2nd/4th Thursday), or use old 16:03:53 MOTU meeting times: alternate between 4 UTC, 12 UTC and 20 UTC, or use 16:03:53 the RMB meeting times: alternate between 12 UTC and 22 UTC. 16:04:21 I started a separate thread on the motu mailing list and it'd be good if everybody weighed in with their personal preference 16:04:36 coolbhavi, particularly for you I could imagine that other times than 16 UTC might work better :) 16:05:11 I guess I'll send a reminder to the list about it again 16:05:42 Ok, let's move on - the list will probably the best place to discuss it 16:05:53 #topic MOTU School (Bhavani Shankar) 16:05:56 dholbach, this time works for me most times except few times :) 16 UTC or earlier :) 16:05:58 I'd try to turn up at any reasonable UK time 16:06:11 but wouldn't get out of bed :P 16:06:13 coolbhavi, ^ do you have updates on the MOTU school sessions? 16:06:25 Laney, that's always a good place for meetings ;-) 16:06:31 dholbach, sent out a doodle poll 16:06:49 coolbhavi, did you send it to the motu list as well? 16:07:23 on the proposed number and the sessions... Will post it to the list today got stuck 16:07:35 with other work 16:07:41 sorry for that 16:08:16 coolbhavi, don't worry - if you send it to the list we should be fine :) 16:08:43 sure dholbach 16:08:49 great 16:09:01 coolbhavi, did you have a chat with bobweaver or did he get in touch with you? 16:09:07 he wanted to give a session already 16:09:18 o/ sorry i'm late 16:09:35 hey statik 16:10:29 coolbhavi, also it might be worth writing up some kind of quick announcement text we can reuse for these sessions - I can help with getting it on the fridge or the ubuntu classroom blog 16:11:03 dholbach, no but a member called joseph got in touch with me sure ll do that 16:11:07 ah yes 16:11:08 perfect 16:11:30 if anyone has any suggestions or would like to volunteer for a motu school session, please get in touch with coolbhavi 16:11:40 ll mail bob today btw 16:11:45 excellent 16:12:04 alright, let's move on to the next point :) 16:12:08 #topic Review MOTU/FAQ/New_Draft (Bhavani Shankar) 16:12:19 coolbhavi is definitely dominating the agenda today :) 16:12:29 coolbhavi, did anyone get in touch with you about the draft? 16:12:58 dholbach, :-) unfortunately on list I got no response 16:13:16 so I wanted to mail again this weekend 16:13:38 perfect 16:13:55 I think if we can mix and match old and new content it should be fine 16:14:06 there are surely some parts which can be borrowed from the old page :) 16:14:49 dholbach, yes a bit of editing would do good most of old page still has valuable content 16:15:01 perfect 16:15:29 alright 16:15:46 it seems like the rest of the agenda is only 'fixed' agenda items - does anyone have anything else they wanted to bring up? 16:15:52 umm 16:15:59 About the MOTU school 16:16:01 hi vibhav 16:16:11 vibhav, hey 16:16:53 I think it might be better if the MOTU who is taking the school seesion conducts a poll on which topic should be covered 16:16:58 hi dholbach 16:17:04 \o 16:17:16 vibhav, we have in the past conducted a couple of these polls 16:17:43 dholbach: How were the results? 16:17:45 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/Requests might be useful content to review 16:18:08 I mean ah, didn't know that 16:18:26 no worries - these wiki page are not exactly easy to find :) 16:18:52 That is the point 16:19:19 We should make the wiki pages more easy to find 16:19:32 but yeah, it's not exactly front-facing content :) 16:20:06 but it might help making decision which sessions to give 16:20:11 yup 16:20:35 Social Networks, at this point, might be usefull 16:20:37 vibhav, but if you want, you could maybe write an email or microblog about it and solicit some feedback on packaging training sessions 16:20:50 sure 16:20:59 that'd be awesome 16:21:09 dholbach, two days back in d-a-t meeting we discussed about g+ hangouts 16:21:11 :) 16:21:45 Ill ask jono about integrating some MOTU stuff in Ubuntu Acomplishments 16:21:52 Encouraging new Developers 16:21:59 ah yes, that's nice ideas 16:22:37 so with some additional mailing list posts and some microblogging I hope we can get some more ideas, so we can probably just leave the item on the agenda page for next time 16:22:44 Laney, you had something to discuss as well? 16:23:39 I just thought I would mention that Kubuntu is going to Universe imminently 16:23:56 and they have some particular conventions that they would like people to follow 16:24:01 mainly pushing to some special branches 16:24:08 should we let people know? 16:24:13 yup 16:24:17 dholbach, do u think d-a-t might help in providing pointers in here as in encouraging new developers? 16:24:18 Laney, do you know if that's documented or mentioned somewhere? 16:24:46 perhaps Riddell or ScottK know more 16:25:03 Kubuntu is going to Universe. 16:25:19 Though it might be bit offtopic, but I think that a 16:25:28 MOTU mascot is needed 16:25:32 People just need to pay attention to the VCS info in the packages. 16:26:01 vibhav, mascot as in? 16:26:06 (But that would make it a bit childish, so never mind :) ) 16:26:10 Laney: the vcs lines are in debian/control 16:26:17 coolbhavi, vibhav: can we talk about this in a bit? 16:26:25 sure 16:26:28 let's talk about Kubuntu first 16:26:29 thanks 16:26:44 another kubuntu convention is not to make upstream changes unless there's a clear route to it getting upstream 16:27:15 there are a lot of Vcs lines in debian/control that Ubuntu developers ignore 16:27:21 yes 16:27:29 Riddell, have you considered bringing this up on a mailing list or blog post somewhere? 16:27:43 u-d-a might be even a good place for this 16:27:53 dholbach: not thought about it no 16:28:03 * ScottK would have thought it was reasonably obvious. 16:28:16 * ScottK doesn't touch Xubuntu stuff without talking to Xuubntu people first. 16:28:26 Ive observed some ubuntu-deltas with the vcs links still of debain instead of the bazaar vcs links 16:28:29 I think it's important enough - and would provide everybody with an update of what's going on in Kubuntu 16:28:38 I agree with dholbach 16:29:20 Explaining what universe actaully is might be the first step towards this 16:29:47 are any other big changes with regard to Kubuntu en route? 16:30:18 dholbach: not currently, the business side is waiting on canonical to sort out the trademark agreement 16:30:26 * dholbach nods 16:30:32 otherwise it's business as usual 16:30:32 but the universe move is already happening? 16:30:40 Yes. 16:30:42 dholbach: I believe cjwatson is on the case as we type 16:30:44 Imminent. 16:30:46 ok, cool 16:30:55 It depends on if his coffee is large enoug. 16:31:05 I hope this will play out posivitely for Kubuntu. 16:31:39 We will also need to assure people that Kubuntu has not been discontinued 16:31:45 or is dead 16:32:14 I think I may need a second coffee for it. 16:32:14 I don't think anyone has that opinion 16:32:57 Ok, if that's all in terms of Kubuntu, I guess we can move on. Thanks a lot for the update in any case. 16:33:09 I think it's interesting for MOTU, and that there are also things that people need to be aware of. 16:33:13 That's all I wanted to raise. 16:33:28 dholbach: if you see any powerful canonical people do get them to nudge steve george into doing the agreement 16:33:32 Yes, thanks for that - I knew that the change was about to happen, but didn't know when. 16:33:48 I've checked that the CD images seem to be building with universe now, and I've checked all the archive scripts I can think of to make sure they won't explode 16:34:51 Then component-mismatches looks like it'll do this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1041070/ 16:35:02 Does this mean, one can no longer install commercial apps in Kubuntu? 16:35:19 So I need to sit and think about how sane all that is 16:35:22 vibhav: Totally unrelated 16:35:44 excuse me, I got a bit confused 16:35:59 let's keep it related to MOTU. 16:36:43 yeah sure 16:36:45 sorry :( 16:37:29 ok, in that case - let's move on 16:38:20 vibhav, you wanted to bring up the idea of a mascot - as I know this has been talked about in the past a couple of times, I would suggest you flesh out a concrete idea and submit it to the mailing list first - because we spent a lot of IRC hours on the topic already :) 16:38:27 Hello 16:38:31 yup 16:38:33 hi AnAnt_ 16:38:37 sory for being late 16:38:55 AnAnt_, no worries - maybe somebody can give you the logs of what we talked about up until now 16:39:24 Looking at the agenda, I don't have much from the Developer Advisory Team to report, but the next agenda item might be good to talk about 16:39:25 ok 16:39:32 #topic https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative 16:39:54 Andrew Starr-Bochicchio and I had a stab at updating it for the bug fixing initiative for the next two weeks 16:40:13 so I'd appreciate if you could take a look at it and say what you think about it 16:40:25 or if you have suggestions for new small tasks we could offer to new contributors 16:40:57 hmm...let me see 16:41:12 I was quite happy with the typo-in-package-description-in-ubuntu-packages one, as some came up with fixes very quickly and for some it was their first interaction with the ubuntu development process and the ones I talked to enjoyed it 16:41:36 I plan to announce the initiative on monday and also blog about the contributors from the fixes which already went in 16:41:39 "Correcting VCS links for Ubuntu Deltas" 16:41:59 Is that really worth the trouble? 16:42:22 nope, but still baby steps for new contributors 16:42:35 * coolbhavi just mailed doodle poll on MOTU school to the list 16:43:12 Part of motivating new people is that their contributions feel useful. 16:43:23 Don't make the stuff too obviously make work. 16:43:40 * vibhav slaps forhead 16:44:07 ScottK, is there anything you'd suggest? 16:44:24 or any feedback on the page? :) 16:44:31 * ScottK looks 16:44:44 The page looks perfect to me 16:45:01 It includes all the ways I started with MOTU contribution 16:45:22 Missing man pages? 16:46:03 ah yes, that might work 16:46:17 we'd need to point to some good documentation 16:46:18 http://lintian.ubuntuwire.org/quantal/tags.html 16:46:21 there must be some stuff in there 16:46:35 and how to get them included in the top-most upstream project :) 16:47:03 vibhav: in most cases, the Vcs links don't need correcting, it's either lp:ubuntu/foo or specified, and certainly isn't worth an upload to add XS-Debian-* 16:47:23 maybe we could check if there's "home-grown" packages where we could add man pages and add these as a task for new contributors 16:47:24 ah, tags ! 16:47:39 and for more experienced contributors add the step of forwarding the manpages to an upstream project? 16:47:41 I mean adding deb tags 16:47:45 I mean adding deb tags to packages 16:47:55 http://lintian.ubuntuwire.org/quantal/tags/debhelper-but-no-misc-depends.html for packages that have an Ubuntu diff might be good. 16:48:18 They can submit the diff to Debian too for those that are in Debian. 16:48:20 adding deb tags is maybe not packaging work, but it is a good contribution I think 16:48:53 fixing lintian errors is one of the best ways to get started with MOTU imho 16:48:59 http://lintian.ubuntuwire.org/quantal/tags/brace-expansion-in-debhelper-config-file.html 16:49:14 debtags.alioth.debian.org/ 16:49:51 ScottK, Laney: both good ideas - would you mind adding them to the page? I then could try to find a way to easily filter out packages which are only in Ubuntu, so we could separate the two groups of packages 16:50:17 AnAnt_, are there good instructions for debtags at the page or is there a list for tags which are currently requested or wanted? 16:50:23 dholbach: I'm multitasking about three ways right now, so no. 16:50:37 ScottK, I know the feeling 16:51:00 dholbach: yes, it can be done on the website itself, one selects from a list of existing tabs for each package 16:51:53 AnAnt_, I think it's a nice idea - could you imagine adding a couple of sentences to the wiki page about the effort? 16:52:31 dholbach: this one https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings ? 16:52:36 ah no, sorry 16:52:41 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/BugFixingInitiative 16:52:48 ok 16:53:14 hmmm, it isn't really related to BugFixing 16:53:17 great - this should give us heaps of tasks for new contributors in the next two weeks :) 16:53:26 I added something 16:53:31 thanks a lot Laney 16:53:44 ScottK, I noted down your idea, so I'll see if I can do about it tomorrow 16:53:48 it might not be very new-contributor friendly, so somebody should proof read 16:53:52 I have another meeting after this one and then need to head out 16:54:08 Laney, if it's too hard, we could just move it to the "intermediate" section or however we want to call it :) 16:55:03 ok 16:55:11 I meant my wording :P 16:55:14 AnAnt_, it might still be a nice introduction - even if it's a tiny little bit unrelated - it's still worthwhile :) 16:55:16 but I see your point also 16:55:19 haha ok 16:55:23 I'll take a look at it tomorrow 16:55:23 ok 16:55:31 ok, we have 5 minutes left - is there anything else we should talk about? 16:56:10 I don't mind doing the minutes, but I'll do them tomorrow, and for the next meeting and meeting chair we'll wait on the results of the discussion on the mailing list 16:56:54 If there's nothing more, I'd like to thank all of you for coming - keep up the good work! :-) 16:57:08 thanks 16:57:09 #endmeeting Generated by MeetBot 0.1.5 (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology)