15:01:55 <skaet> #startmeeting
15:01:55 <meetingology> Meeting started Fri Jun  1 15:01:55 2012 UTC.  The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
15:01:55 <meetingology> 
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15:02:05 <Riddell> hi
15:02:14 <skaet> We're now in FeatureDefinitionFreeze,  all blueprints should be up to date and reflect your team's plans for this cycle.  As of this morning there are 2282 work items in the tracker.   The trend line will now
15:02:14 <skaet> be reset for the burndowns.
15:02:14 <skaet> .
15:02:14 <skaet> Based on the follow up from last week,  A3 has moved to July 26.    Also changed since the last meeting is DebianImportFreeze is July 5,  per UDS discussions.   Schedules have now had the DRAFT indicator removed.
15:02:14 <skaet> .
15:02:35 <balloons> o/
15:02:40 <skaet> Before we go into the open Q&A session,  just want to give a reminder of some other key links.
15:02:40 <skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/Agenda  (this meeting's conventions and format are documented there).
15:02:40 <skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseSchedule (12.10 Schedule)
15:02:40 <skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseInterlock  (12.10 and 12.04.1 interaction with other teams)
15:02:42 <skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule (12.04.1 Schedule)
15:02:44 <skaet> .
15:02:46 <skaet> Key events:
15:02:48 <skaet> 2012/06/07 - Alpha 1 Milestone Release  (soft freeze and images available on 06/04)
15:02:50 <skaet> 2012/07/05 - DebianImportFreeze
15:02:52 <skaet> .
15:03:35 <stgraber> I also created a wiki page for the 12.04.1 team with links to relevant resources: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/12.04.1
15:03:39 <stgraber> ..
15:03:43 <skaet> Here are the status's received on the mail list:
15:03:53 <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001277.html - hardware cert (brendand)
15:03:53 <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001278.html - ubuntu studio (scott-work)
15:03:53 <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001279.html - security (mdeslaurs)
15:03:53 <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001280.html - Kubuntu (ScottK)
15:03:53 <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001282.html - Edubuntu (stgraber)
15:03:54 <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001284.html - Kernel (ogasawara)
15:03:56 <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-May/001285.html - Lubuntu (gilir)
15:03:58 <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-June/001287.html - Server (arosales)
15:04:00 <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-June/001288.html - Xubuntu (astraljava)
15:04:02 <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-June/001289.html - Desktop (seb128)
15:04:04 <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-June/001290.html - QA (jibel)
15:04:06 <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-June/001291.html - Foundations (ogra_)
15:04:08 <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-June/001296.html - QA community (balloons)
15:04:14 <skaet> [TOPIC] Comments and Questions
15:04:22 <skaet> thanks stgraber.  :)
15:04:39 <skaet> Comment:  NCommander, stgraber and skaet will be contact points for the A1 release next week.   Please ask questions in #ubuntu-release if there are concerns/issues as we work on the images next week.
15:04:41 <skaet> ..
15:04:57 <skaet> any one have questions from reading the mail list, or others, before I start in?
15:05:04 <ogra_> the linux-base MIR mentioned in the foundations report blocks A1 for armhf, would be nice to have that proceeded with high prio
15:05:10 <ogra_> ..
15:05:36 <skaet> heh,  thanks ogra_ that pre-empts one of mine quite nicely ;)
15:05:48 <ogra_> :)
15:05:52 <cjwatson> o/
15:05:59 <skaet> go cjwatson
15:06:12 <cjwatson> Not a response to status mails as such, but I'd like a volunteer (from the intersection of ubuntu-core-dev and ubuntu-archive) to run auto-syncs at least on Monday and Tuesday, and if possible occasionally over the weekend, since I'll be away
15:06:17 <cjwatson> ..
15:06:42 <Riddell> can that be done without command line access?
15:06:48 <cjwatson> Yes
15:07:06 <Riddell> show me how and I'll give it a go
15:07:17 <cjwatson> Great, thanks, will follow up with you out of band
15:07:36 <cjwatson> (done)
15:07:38 <Daviey> cjwatson / Riddell: Do you want to wiki-tize it, making it easier for volunteers in the future?
15:07:44 <skaet> +1
15:08:02 <cjwatson> Gosh, might almost think it was already
15:08:15 <Daviey> (The irony of auto-sync's needing a human isn't lost :)
15:08:16 <Riddell> should be on ArchiveAdmin if the world worked perfectly I think
15:08:25 <cjwatson> It *is* on ArchiveAdministration
15:08:30 <cjwatson> The world works perfectly.  QED
15:08:35 <skaet> lol
15:08:35 <Daviey> wow, i suck.
15:08:47 <cjwatson> Daviey: automation is blocked on two LP bugs, referenced from the foundations archive-admin spec for the cycle
15:08:50 <Riddell> nice
15:09:06 <cjwatson> (full automation, that is)
15:09:53 <Daviey> cjwatson: Sorry, i thought that the Sync section was referencing shell based syncs.. not api based ones.
15:10:18 <cjwatson> Daviey: I believe I nuked all of that since the old code is no longer available
15:10:25 <Daviey> rocking
15:10:45 <skaet> .. (feels like it,  on to next question)
15:10:58 <skaet> ogra_,  any updates on when we'll be dropping the alt installer images?  (Nick's question from the mail list).
15:11:12 <ogra_> ??
15:11:18 <ogra_> why do you ask me ?
15:11:23 <skaet> cjwatson then.
15:11:26 <ogra_> :)
15:11:36 <skaet> (foundations rep ;) )
15:11:42 * ogra_ wont drop any alternate images for x86 :)
15:11:46 <Daviey> RE: Nick's question.. if they can't use the desktop installer.. the mini.iso is still being shipped.. So they can get Ubuntu on there.
15:11:49 <ogra_> i thought the plan was to do it asap
15:12:11 <ogra_> but i have no idea if that also means A1
15:12:50 <ogra_> surely depends on raid and lvm in ubiquity
15:12:55 <balloons> Well, alpha 1 is next week, I assumed the question was more for cjwatson and team.. we can drop once the installer supports everything
15:13:07 <ogra_> which rogresses well but i dont think is finished yet
15:13:10 <brendand> skaet, cjwatson - before that happens would you mind hearing a few concerns from the cert team?
15:13:12 <ogra_> *progresses
15:13:25 <gilir> o/
15:13:29 <ogra_> brendand, you have netboot and mini iso
15:13:31 <cjwatson> skaet: Not until beta
15:13:38 <ogra_> both will go on using alternate
15:13:44 <cjwatson> The desktop image won't be a complete replacement until then
15:13:53 * ogra_ notes that down for the next time this question comes up
15:13:54 <skaet> cjwatson,  ok.    thanks.  :)
15:13:59 <ogra_> ..
15:14:02 <cjwatson> brendand: ?
15:14:10 <balloons> ok, does it make sense to test images we'll be replacing?
15:14:23 <cjwatson> balloons: low priority
15:14:29 <Daviey> brendand: Can you comment on why mini.iso wouldn't cover any gaps lost with alternate?
15:14:50 <Daviey> seems disingenuous to ship an image for Alpha, we have no intention of being in final.
15:14:51 <brendand> Daviey, ogra_ - i'm not au fait with the mini.iso
15:14:59 <balloons> I mean, I wouldn't want to publish alt images for alpha1, if we're dropping
15:15:06 <Daviey> super.
15:15:22 <stgraber> balloons: a good part of the installer code path (partman) and the post-boot experience will still essentially be identical whether you install from alternate or from desktop, so I think there's still value in testing lvm/crypto on the alternates until desktop supports it
15:15:22 <ogra_> balloons, there are install methods missing in live the alternate offers
15:15:45 <xnox> Daviey: we have a contingency plan. until we know that ubiquity has luks/lvm and it works well we will not be dropping alternative cd.
15:15:56 <brendand> ogra_, i'm not entirely sure netboot is an adequate substitute
15:16:16 <xnox> and that piece of work was long time in the cooking and still a highly desirable wishlist item, becuase it's not easy to implement.
15:16:22 <ogra_> brendand, well, it uses the same installer as alternate, it just doesnt have packages in a local pool
15:16:34 <xnox> at any case we do not want to loose offline encrypted installation option.
15:16:48 <cjwatson> balloons: as xnox says - if we turn out not to be able to finish the luks/lvm work (although it is extremely high priority and we'll do our best), it would be bad to ship 12.10 with very significantly reduced partitioning capabilities
15:16:48 <xnox> for the desktop that is currently the alternative image
15:17:19 <cjwatson> we don't *want* the alternates to be in final, but they're a fallback
15:17:26 <cjwatson> it would be worse to have to resurrect them in a panic
15:17:34 <Daviey> So it should be captured that it's not definite that alternate is going away.
15:17:40 <xnox> alternative cd until last minute is our contingency plan.
15:17:41 <balloons> that makes sense, but I'm divided about it...
15:17:43 <cjwatson> it is the plan of record
15:17:48 <brendand> ogra_, so the reason we fell back to alternate sometimes was because desktop didn't work on a particular system. it would be reasonable, but not ideal to ask an end user to use alternate to install
15:17:53 <cjwatson> like most things, plans of record may occasionally be subject to contingencies
15:17:58 <brendand> ogra_, i don't think so the same can be said for netboot
15:18:18 <ogra_> brendand, not easily, but surely for mini.iso
15:18:22 <Daviey> brendand: burn mini.iso to disk, select ubuntu desktop. go home. :)
15:18:37 <cjwatson> It is reasonable, but not ideal, to ask users to use mini.iso
15:18:39 <xnox> Daviey: doesn't mini.iso require network access?
15:18:45 <Daviey> yah
15:18:47 <ogra_> yes
15:18:47 <cjwatson> If they were having to download the alternate ISO anyway, it's not much worse
15:18:52 <cjwatson> And it's the same interface
15:18:53 <ogra_> or a local mirror
15:18:58 <brendand> Daviey, we'll have a look at mini.iso
15:19:16 <ogra_> or a cd with a locla mirror (which makes it nearly an alternate install ;) )
15:19:17 <xnox> there is a usecase for isolated, non-network accesible machines.
15:19:34 <cjwatson> Yeah, but they tend to have stronger local admin capabilities
15:19:41 <cjwatson> I'm not worried about those at the moment
15:19:46 <xnox> mini.iso + desktop.iso for the upgrade pool = ugly
15:19:54 <xnox> ok.
15:19:56 <xnox> ..
15:19:57 <brendand> cjwatson, one technical thing was a recent discovery we made about interaction between ubiquity and usb sticks inserted on install
15:19:57 <cjwatson> Anyway, I don't think we need to get all the way into this in the meeting ...
15:20:05 <balloons> sounds like we could use a usecase -> iso enablement mapping
15:20:07 <cjwatson> brendand: That sounds like a bug we should fix!
15:20:13 <ogra_> ++
15:20:18 <brendand> cjwatson, indeed!
15:20:42 <skaet> .. I think.
15:20:49 <skaet> gilir,  go
15:20:56 <ogra_> balloons, that scalled manifest and is on the wiki :)
15:20:56 <cjwatson> Yes, we should take further stuff out of band; say -devel or -installer
15:20:58 <ogra_> ..
15:21:00 <gilir> the plan is to drop alternate for Ubuntu and all the flavors ?
15:21:08 <cjwatson> gilir: IMO it's up to flavours
15:21:12 <gilir> or are flavors free to produce 1 or more alternate images ?
15:21:32 <xnox> less images the better.
15:21:43 <ogra_> why "more" ?
15:21:51 <ogra_> ..
15:21:53 <cjwatson> ogra_: architectures
15:21:56 <ogra_> ah
15:22:00 <cjwatson> The alternate image is inherently more flexible and it's a perfectly legitimate per-flavour decision to produce them
15:22:07 <ogra_> yeah
15:22:24 <cjwatson> The "no alternate image for 12.10" is primarily a matter of Canonical paring down the set of images it has to care about
15:22:29 <cjwatson> i.e. Ubuntu desktop
15:22:38 <cjwatson> It is not an edict that applies non-negotiably to all flavours
15:22:47 <gilir> alternate is still usefull for us, but I didn't check is mini.iso can replace it
15:23:07 <Daviey> Well, it's also.. as a project.. too many flavours IS confusing.
15:23:12 <Daviey> err, options
15:23:14 <cjwatson> We have to support the underlying software for automated deployments, netboot etc. anyway
15:23:20 <cjwatson> Daviey: that's negotiable though
15:23:39 <gilir> I just want to be sure the installer for alternate will be updated and maintained :)
15:23:41 <skaet> gilir, I'll do a survey before B1 so we can finalize the manifest on this subject.   It will be a per flavor decision.
15:23:58 <cjwatson> You could make the same argument that too many flavours is confusing, but I'm pretty sure that's not something you want to say to flavours ;-)
15:24:13 <cjwatson> The question is a little more nuanced than ">1 => bad"
15:24:26 <gilir> skaet: ok, thanks :)
15:24:42 <skaet> more info should be known then too.  ;)
15:24:44 <cjwatson> gilir: yes, if necessary (and I hope it's not) I'll be doing it in my free time
15:24:47 <skaet> ..
15:24:50 <gilir> but yes, it's maybe not usefull to have more than 1 alternate
15:25:13 <gilir> cool, thanks cjwatson :)
15:25:20 <gilir> ..
15:25:22 * ogra_ wasnt aware cjwatson had such a thing like "free time"
15:25:23 <ogra_> ..
15:26:11 <skaet> jibel,  new email format looks good and is useful.  :)  Thanks!  Question: bootspeed testing: has anyone started to look at why the plumbing has gone up by 5 seconds since the last runs?
15:27:35 * skaet just trying to figure out if its on a team's radar or not?
15:27:36 <jibel> skaet, we are struggling with hardware issue and the job is not stable yet. I wouldn't consider the results as reliable.
15:27:49 <skaet> jibel,  fair nuf :)
15:27:51 <skaet> thanks.
15:28:01 <skaet> ..
15:28:25 * skaet was happy to see them again though ;)
15:28:43 <skaet> seb128,  will we be picking up a unity/compiz stack update for A1?
15:29:31 <seb128> skaet, no, refactoring is still going on for compiz as well as merging in one source
15:29:46 <seb128> things are getting in shape but they will not make it for a1
15:29:54 <ogra_> phew
15:29:55 <skaet> seb128,  thanks.
15:30:05 * skaet crosses that worry point off her list ;)
15:30:13 <skaet> ..
15:30:20 * ogra_ is happy he doesnt have to care for it for arm A1
15:30:21 <ogra_> ..
15:30:53 <skaet> Riddell, when is KDE SC 4.9 Beta 1 likely to land (before or after monday).   If it doesn't land,  does it make sense to spin up A1 images?  and which images make sense to release and ask for testing?
15:30:53 <skaet> What's Kubuntu Active looking like?
15:31:19 * skaet referencing ScottK's comments in the Kubuntu status)
15:31:23 <Riddell> 4.9 packages are avilable to packages but unknown if they'll be done by tuesday
15:31:44 <Riddell> I've not looked at Kubuntu Active, I presume it looks just the same as precise unless you know different
15:32:18 <Riddell> I think it makes sense to try for alpha 1 even without SC 4.9
15:32:38 <skaet> no,  just figured there may be some different paths/packages so wasn't sure if it fell into the category of not worth asking for testing or not,  if 4.9 didn't land
15:33:06 <Riddell> right I think kubuntu active can be missed for alpha 1
15:34:06 <skaet> if you want to try for alpha 1 with the rest of Kubuntu without SC 4.9,  that's possible.
15:34:27 <skaet> Can you reply to my manifest email,  and state which ones you want explicitly?
15:34:27 <Riddell> desktop images anyway, not fussed about dvd and alternate
15:34:31 <skaet> heh
15:34:41 <Riddell> is that a recent e-mail?
15:34:44 <skaet> that's what I was wanting to know.  ;)
15:34:52 <skaet> yup,  ubuntu-release mail list
15:34:55 <skaet> yesterday
15:35:07 <skaet> trying to nail down what we're aiming at next week.
15:35:12 <Riddell> ok added that to my todo list
15:35:23 <skaet> balloons,  ^ see comment on Kubuntu desktop images ;)
15:35:38 <skaet> thanks Riddell.  :)
15:36:01 <skaet> ..
15:36:50 <skaet> I think that's it for the questions I had from reading through the emails.   Thank you to those who got it mailed out by scheduled time yesterday :).
15:36:59 <skaet> anyone else before we end meeting?
15:37:37 <skaet> Thanks all.
15:37:40 <skaet> #endmeeting