16:02:34 <slangasek> #startmeeting
16:02:34 <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Mar  7 16:02:34 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
16:02:34 <meetingology> 
16:02:34 <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
16:03:03 * stgraber waves
16:04:56 <slangasek> [TOPIC] Thunder and lightning round
16:05:35 <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra infinity cjwatson)
16:05:38 <slangasek> jodh ogra slangasek stgraber cjwatson doko barry ev bdmurray infinity
16:05:41 <slangasek> $
16:05:52 <jodh> * This week:
16:05:52 <jodh> * [dpkg] bug 927993: Started to investigate, but mvo identified the
16:05:52 <jodh> problem+fix.
16:05:52 <jodh> almost immediately. Thanks mvo!
16:05:54 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 927993 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "ordering code may mark a package for configure before its unpacked" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/927993
16:05:55 <jodh> * [boot/upstart] bug 940290: Isolated issue, finished code, and updated
16:05:56 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 940290 in upstart "console log consumes fds upon job restart/respawn" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/940290
16:05:58 <jodh> tests. Pending code review.
16:06:01 <jodh> * [boot/upstart] bug 936667: Created a basic fix. Pending review. We'll
16:06:03 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 936667 in upstart (Ubuntu) "Upstart early job logging causes boot failure for systems with no initramfs (error is "No available ptys")" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/936667
16:06:05 <jodh> need to consider this scenario carefully should we introduce an
16:06:08 <jodh> initramfs-less boot experience for some for 12.10 though.
16:06:11 <jodh> * [upgrade/do-release-upgrade] bug 883618: Fixed. Problem cause was
16:06:12 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 883618 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Console upgrade useless.. XSet warnings all over the screen" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/883618
16:06:14 <jodh> identified using a generic dpkg-divert(8) script I wrote:
16:06:19 <jodh> http://is.gd/H6iPus
16:06:19 <jodh> * [packaging/eglibc] bug 508083: Fix identified - currently reworking
16:06:20 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 508083 in eglibc (Ubuntu) "cron crashed with SIGSEGV in __pthread_initialize_minimal_internal()" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/508083
16:06:22 <jodh> maintainer scripts.
16:06:25 <jodh> * TODO:
16:06:28 <jodh> * [packaging/eglibc] bug 508083: Complete work and test very carefully.
16:06:32 <jodh> * [boot/upstart] Early job logging code review and upstream merge.
16:06:35 <jodh> ⌂
16:06:38 <mvo> jodh: almost immediately is a bit of a overstatement, but I'm really happy that its found and fixed
16:06:38 <jodh> 
16:06:41 <jodh> 
16:07:03 <ogra_> intramfs-less boot experience \o/
16:07:31 <ogra_> done:
16:07:31 <ogra_> * more weeding out of the rotting ubuntu-arm bugs
16:07:31 <ogra_> * fixed a bug in fixrtc that made it set the clock in any case in any direction
16:07:31 <ogra_> * merged a bunch of alsa fixes from tobin
16:07:31 <ogra_> * merged a bunch of flash-kernel bugfixes
16:07:32 <ogra_> * fixed sound on ac100 netbooks, finally works by default now
16:07:34 <ogra_> * didnt get much done wrt oem-config this week, will prioritize for next week
16:07:36 <ogra_> todo:
16:07:38 <ogra_> * oem-config !
16:07:40 <ogra_> * stopwatch initrdless boot
16:07:42 <ogra_> * start looking at delay caused by fsck on boot
16:07:44 <ogra_> * more ubuntu-arm rotten bug cleanup
16:09:35 <slangasek> jodh: mvo is also asking for help getting a test case out of bug #930396 that he can reproduce; can you put this to the top of your list?
16:09:36 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 930396 in Zim "No menu on upper desktop panel. Ubuntu 11.10." [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/930396
16:10:08 <jodh> slangasek: will do.
16:10:11 <slangasek> ta
16:10:51 <jodh> slangasek: is that bug number correct?
16:10:59 <slangasek> apparently not ;)
16:11:08 <slangasek> bug #940396
16:11:09 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 940396 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "lucid -> precise main all failed to upgrade: dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of kde-runtime" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/940396
16:11:14 <slangasek> jodh: that one is :)
16:11:41 <jodh> slangasek: thanks. I've assigned myself.
16:11:48 <slangasek> * RELEASE MEETING: working on bug #901638; build-time testing confirmed, could use verification from Kubuntu folks that it still actually works
16:11:50 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 901638 in soprano (Ubuntu Precise) "Remove iodbc2 (causes upgrade failure from Oneiric to Precise)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/901638
16:11:51 <slangasek> * discussions around Wubi
16:11:53 <slangasek> * looking into fixing upstart's fork-tracking handling
16:11:56 <slangasek> * gconf merge for full multiarch support; now chasing regressions related to upgrade order & triggers (bug #948294)
16:11:57 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 948294 in gconf (Ubuntu) "package gconf2 3.2.3-3ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 250" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/948294
16:11:59 <slangasek> * merged a package from Debian over the weekend for the Ubuntu Global Jam to fix an RC bug we still had (revelation)
16:12:02 <slangasek> * acpi-support uploaded to work around lightdm not writing to utmp (bug #933626)
16:12:03 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 933626 in acpi-support (Ubuntu) "acpi-support should use ck-list-sessions to determine active X display and X user" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/933626
16:12:05 <slangasek> ¢
16:12:19 <slangasek> cjwatson: ^^ is that a suitable tagging for release-meeting stuffs?
16:12:44 * stgraber quickly looks for anything release-meeting worthy before pasting
16:13:08 <cjwatson> I figured we'd see what people came up with in this meeting and settle for the best :)
16:13:14 <stgraber> Bugs, bugs, bugs...
16:13:15 <stgraber> - Networking
16:13:15 <stgraber> - Tweaked netcfg to follow the expected workflow for wireless, bug 36426
16:13:17 <stgraber> - Fixed resolvconf support in casper, bug 946215
16:13:18 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 36426 in netcfg (Ubuntu) "Can't skip configuring wireless network" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/36426
16:13:20 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 946215 in casper (Ubuntu Precise) "12.04 not set nameserver in pxe boot ( resolvconf or dhcp client bug)" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/946215
16:13:20 <stgraber> - Worked on converting isc-dhcp to upstart and support IPv4/IPv6 by default, bug 944849
16:13:21 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 944849 in isc-dhcp (Ubuntu) "[FFe] converting isc-dhcp from sysvinit to upstart" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/944849
16:13:23 <stgraber> - Started investigating bug 919068 (bridge_ports all not working at boot time)
16:13:24 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 919068 in bridge-utils (Ubuntu) "bridge_ports all doesn't work at boot time" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/919068
16:13:27 <stgraber> - Installer
16:13:29 <stgraber> - A bunch of ubiquity bugs (bug 942030, bug 944614, bug 942560, bug 926493, bug 830946)
16:13:32 <stgraber> - Tried to reproduce bug 924511 without success, might have been fixed lately
16:13:33 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 942030 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "'Take a photo' preview pane not showing live preview" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/942030
16:13:35 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 944614 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity crashed with AttributeError in keyboard_variant_timeout(): 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'apply_keyboard'" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/944614
16:13:35 <stgraber> - Fixed a race condition in casper when using persistent storage (bug 940908)
16:13:36 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 942560 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "keyboard layout screen - Keyboard navigation broken" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/942560
16:13:37 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 926493 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "[UIFe] The installer still says your picture will be used on the login screen" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/926493
16:13:38 <stgraber> - Containers
16:13:41 <stgraber> - Started looking at the new apparmor but it's currently broken, causing bug 947617
16:13:42 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 830946 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Precise) "Nothing displayed on embedded terminal." [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/830946
16:13:43 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 924511 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "ubiquity tells me my computer name already exists on the network - hostname lookup can be slow" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/924511
16:13:44 <stgraber> - Wrote about how to start a 12.04 system from a VM in a LXC container instead: http://www.stgraber.org/2012/03/04/booting-an-ubuntu-12-04-virtual-machine-in-an-lxc-container/
16:13:44 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 940908 in casper (Ubuntu Precise) "Keyboard layout, oem-config not set on persistent USB image" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/940908
16:13:45 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 947617 in lxc (Ubuntu) "After update, lxc does not start" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/947617
16:13:48 <stgraber> - Other
16:13:50 <stgraber> - Expecting LTSP 5.3.4 upload soonish (bugfix release) including converting to upstart (to actually start at the right time)
16:13:53 <stgraber> - Updated LTTng stack, will blog about it soon
16:13:56 <stgraber> - TODO this week
16:13:58 <stgraber> - Look at James' friendly-recovery branch, merge and ask for a FFe
16:14:01 <stgraber> - Get LXC working again with apparmor
16:14:03 <stgraber> - Upload the new isc-dhcp
16:14:06 <stgraber> - Continue working on bugs
16:14:08 <stgraber> (DONE)
16:14:49 <stgraber> oh, and I'd really appreciate it if an archive admin could process bug 931809
16:14:51 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 931809 in ust (Ubuntu) "Please remove the old LTTng packages from the Ubuntu archive" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/931809
16:15:24 <stgraber> I won't blog about lttng until that's done as having both stacks in the archive would just confuse everyone ;)
16:15:53 <cjwatson> For release meeting:
16:15:53 <cjwatson> * Sorted out most of the remaining dpkg-maintscript-helper upgrade bugs.
16:15:57 <cjwatson> * Fixed a couple of biosdevname-related problems (bug 948546, bug 948559).
16:16:00 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 948546 in bridge-utils (Ubuntu) "eth* device names hardcoded in debian/bridge-utils.sh" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/948546
16:16:00 <cjwatson> * Ported grub2 to GCC 4.6, and tried to disable the cursor earlier on boot (bug 861048).
16:16:01 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 948559 in vlan (Ubuntu) "eth* NIC names hardcoded" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/948559
16:16:02 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 861048 in The Ubuntu Flicker-Free Boot Project "have really quick '_' on boot before first purple screen" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/861048
16:16:04 <cjwatson> Everything else:
16:16:06 <cjwatson> * Various syncs and merges from Debian (especially ntfs-3g), and a few build failure fixes.
16:16:09 <cjwatson> * Dealt with various grub2 build failures and regressions.
16:16:12 <cjwatson> * Fixed bug 939278 which broke the d-i GTK frontend.
16:16:13 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 939278 in kickseed (Ubuntu) "GTK mini-iso can't start X" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/939278
16:16:14 <cjwatson> * Writing parted tests in an attempt to track down bug 856826.
16:16:15 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 856826 in partman-base (Ubuntu Precise) "'guided resize' partioning leaves Mac unbootable" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/856826
16:16:17 <cjwatson> * Enormous mail catchup.  Still ~200 messages behind in my inbox alone.
16:16:19 <cjwatson> ..
16:16:43 <ev> Week of Thursday, March 1st, 2012
16:16:43 <ev> - At the Strata conference Tuesday through Thursday. 10 hours on a plane
16:16:45 <ev> Friday.
16:16:46 <ev> - Crafted this (and a long companion email to James, Robert, and Lucio):
16:16:48 <ev> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker/ServerArchitecture
16:16:49 <ev> - Call with Robert to discuss the status of the crash database and get his
16:16:51 <ev> feedback on the backend design.
16:16:52 <ev> - Work on implementing the missing bits from /ServerArchitecture.
16:16:54 <ev> - Chat with Colin and Steve about the future of Wubi.
16:16:55 <ev> - Joined the QA sprint for a day at the reqest of Pete and discussed their
16:16:56 <ev> proposed high level test harness.
16:16:57 <ev> (done)
16:17:37 <bdmurray> bug triage of iso-testing and ubiquity bug reports
16:17:37 <bdmurray> bug triage of foundations-bugs receiving duplicates
16:17:37 <bdmurray> creation of a bug heat chart that compares packages
16:17:51 <bdmurray> the heat chart is http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/foundations-bugs/foundations-bugs-packages-hottest-bugs.html
16:18:07 * doko is back again
16:18:09 <bdmurray> reported apport bug 944078 regarding missing information
16:18:09 <bdmurray> investigation into aptdaemon bugs 858707 and bug 659438
16:18:09 <bdmurray> investigation into team assigned bug 556293 and other apt proxy issues
16:18:10 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 944078 in apport (Ubuntu) "bugs reported by apport missing essential information" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/944078
16:18:13 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 858707 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) "<type 'exceptions.SystemError'>: E:I wasn't able to locate a file for the upnp-router-control package. This might mean you need to manually fix this package." [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/858707
16:18:15 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 659438 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) "Installation/Removal fails because of package which could not be located (failure in apt.Cache.required_download)" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/659438
16:18:16 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 556293 in apt (Ubuntu) "apt/aptitude need to take global proxy settings into account" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/556293
16:18:23 <bdmurray> closed apt-xapian-index bug 631215 (foundations-bugs high heat bug) that seems fixed
16:18:23 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 631215 in apt-xapian-index (Ubuntu) "update-apt-xapian-index crashed with DatabaseCorruptError in buildIndex()" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/631215
16:18:26 <bdmurray> closed update-notifier high heat bug 467875 (closed and bug pattern removed)
16:18:26 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 467875 in update-notifier (Ubuntu) "apt_check.py crashed with SIGSEGV in pkgCache::FindPkg()" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/467875
16:18:31 <bdmurray> added procfb to the linux apport package hook
16:18:31 <bdmurray> update-manager bug fixes for bug 946539 and bug 940196
16:18:31 <bdmurray> participated in global bug jam and worked on evince bugs
16:18:32 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 946539 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "gnome-session removed during partial upgrade to Precise Beta1" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/946539
16:18:34 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 940196 in update-manager (Ubuntu Precise) "cdromupgrade from Oneiric to Precise no network failed: The package 'unity-2d-places' is marked for removal but it's in the removal blacklist" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/940196
16:18:53 <bdmurray> done
16:23:11 <slangasek> doko: any status to report?
16:24:00 <doko> - GCC 4.6.3 packages, including gcj and gnat.
16:24:00 <doko> - GCC 4.7.0~rc1 packages (ubuntu-toolchain-r/test PPA)
16:24:00 <doko> - icedtea-web update from the 1.2 branch, fixed some issues
16:24:00 <doko> with the packaging.
16:24:00 <doko> - openjdk-6 update, revert an ARM optimization which should
16:24:00 <doko> have landed in a PPA only.
16:24:02 <doko> - trying to the gcc-4.7 branch imported in LP for Linaro
16:24:04 <doko> - address eglibc testing from a PPA with gema (follow-up
16:24:06 <doko> at UDS is likely, not before, no more uploads planned)
16:24:08 <doko> - get ARM patches for dragonegg (LLVM backend for GCC)
16:24:10 <doko> working on ARM.
16:24:12 <doko> - started updates for the final python 2.7.3 and 3.2.3
16:24:14 <doko> releases, but didn't finish today.
16:24:16 <doko> todo this week: MIRs
16:24:28 <doko> done
16:24:32 <slangasek> thanks
16:25:24 <slangasek> <infinity> some grub bugfixes, and looking into bugs #911436 and #876626, and fiddling with fpc and ghc.
16:25:27 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 911436 in p11-kit (Ubuntu) "https crashed with SIGSEGV in lookup_or_create_bucket()" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/911436
16:25:28 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 876626 in upstart (Ubuntu Precise) "Unlocking the second crypto disk (/home) echos password on console" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/876626
16:25:47 <slangasek> and that should be it for the status round
16:25:49 <slangasek> any questions?
16:26:32 <slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
16:27:36 <bdmurray> stgraber and I were talking about bug 942539 and removing the version from the icon
16:27:37 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 942539 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Ubiquity desktop icon text looks messy" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/942539
16:27:54 <bdmurray> we weren't sure if there was a design reason for having it
16:28:53 <bdmurray> cjwatson, ev?
16:28:54 <stgraber> the change would probably be done in casper to avoid messing with the translations (doing s/RELEASE// in the adduser script)
16:28:54 <cjwatson> IIRC it was there so that we could refer to it on CD sleeves, and because we couldn't guarantee people would understand the icon
16:29:09 <cjwatson> but couldn't nautilus be fixed to wrap this correctly
16:29:09 <cjwatson> ?
16:29:24 <cjwatson> oh, wait, you said the version, not the whole text, I misunderstood
16:29:37 <bdmurray> right, so having it say just "Install Ubuntu"
16:29:41 <cjwatson> it was "Install Ubuntu" at one point actually, so let me see if I can dig through archives
16:29:47 <cjwatson> IIRC higher-ups told me to change it
16:30:04 <slangasek> in the example it's splitting "12.04" in the middle
16:30:10 <slangasek> which seems to be a nautilus bug
16:30:30 * stgraber is happy to re-assign to desktop for a nautilus fix :)
16:30:57 <cjwatson> hmm, looks like it was changed in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/154506
16:30:59 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 154506 in One Hundred Paper Cuts "Ubuntu LiveCD "Install" icon confusing" [Low,Fix released]
16:31:06 <cjwatson> but I definitely think the wrapping is a nautilus bug
16:31:12 <cjwatson> or something in that stack
16:32:09 <stgraber> I don't think there's any good reason for that weird wrapping, having nautilus render it as "Install Ubuntu\n12.04 LTS" would be fine
16:32:31 <cjwatson> might even be gtk/pango
16:32:48 <stgraber> so move the bug to desktop and if they can't get it fixed for 12.04, then drop the version number for final?
16:33:44 <jodh> Are we allowed to say "Install Ubuntu Precise"? Seems that it considers the period a sentence end so is wrapping it there.
16:34:30 <bdmurray> jodh: I don't think so and that would likely cause some confusion
16:34:49 <cjwatson> "Ubuntu Precise" isn't a proper way to refer to the final release
16:35:54 <bdmurray> so assign to the desktop team then?
16:36:01 <jodh> I wonder if you could "fool" the wrapping code then by using a UTF-8 'middle-dot' ('·' (0x00B7)) rather than a basic ASCII one?
16:36:08 <cjwatson> bdmurray: yeah
16:36:09 <slangasek> and reassign the bug to nautilus, yes
16:36:22 <cjwatson> there might be a way to fix it with pango attributes
16:36:31 <slangasek> splitting on a dot without whitespace after it is obviously wrong
16:36:39 <bdmurray> okay, then bug 947236 - that won't be done this release will it?
16:36:40 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 947236 in base-files (Ubuntu Q-series) "Please provide /etc/os-release" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/947236
16:36:43 <cjwatson> but it likely won't be accessible from a desktop file so it will have to be fixed in the desktop stack anyway
16:37:11 <cjwatson> I don't know that I object to doing os-release for P; it's not intrusive
16:37:12 <ogra_> pango has a "nowrap" mode iirc
16:38:09 <jodh> fwiw the middle-dot trick works ;)
16:38:43 <bdmurray> okay, then assign it to the team?
16:39:15 <cjwatson> yeah
16:40:07 <bdmurray> when I was looking at apt proxy bugs I found bug 24061
16:40:08 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 24061 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "GPG error with apt-get/aptitude/update-manager behind proxy (BADSIG 40976EAF437D05B5)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/24061
16:40:22 <bdmurray> its in progress but not assigned
16:41:21 <cjwatson> I'm not sure why that's in progress; for updated status you probably need to talk with mvo and/or DonKult
16:42:03 <ev> bdmurray: apols for the delay. That was a bug fix for a papercut. I'll try to find it.
16:42:25 <bdmurray> ev: colin found it
16:42:45 <ev> cool
16:43:23 <bdmurray> then slangasek and I were looking at bug 484499 yesterday
16:43:24 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 484499 in grub2 (Ubuntu Lucid) "[MASTER] syntax errors in /etc/default/grub break upgrades" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/484499
16:43:37 <bdmurray> Is there anything actionable there?
16:43:59 <ogra_> have something like visudo ?
16:44:09 <cjwatson> the only thing we could do would be to have a debconf check for validity
16:44:09 <ogra_> but thats rather a task for UDS discussion
16:44:21 <cjwatson> I strongly suspect that people would continue to file bugs anyway after breaking their configuration files
16:44:35 <cjwatson> particularly because there are circumstances in which a debconf prompt won't show up
16:44:41 <cjwatson> (noninteractive upgrades)
16:44:42 <ogra_> it causes a lot of noise though
16:44:52 <cjwatson> it does, but we can't prevent it completely
16:44:55 <ogra_> every bit we can cut from that would help
16:45:05 <cjwatson> I'm not even convinced we can prevent it mostly
16:45:54 <cjwatson> visudo - mm, except that all the forums/blog/etc. advice people are following recommends editing the file directly
16:46:05 <slangasek> my initial suggestion to bdmurray had been to close that as non-actionable
16:46:07 <cjwatson> and people will get equivalently confused if they're prevented
16:46:09 <ogra_> sure, it will have a transition time
16:46:16 <slangasek> he countered that we could at least put a warning comment in the file
16:46:28 * doko is leaving now for the Python language summit
16:46:33 <ogra_> but people also edit sudo without visudo ... still there is the header in the file
16:46:34 <cjwatson> people observably don't read any commentary in grub configuration files
16:46:43 <cjwatson> I don't think it's truly actionable, but if we close it, it will just get reopened
16:46:53 <cjwatson> or new dups opened
16:46:59 <ogra_> s/sudo/sudoers/
16:47:09 <slangasek> but in general, I don't think we should consider it in scope for us to prevent users from breaking package upgrades by breaking config files
16:47:30 <cjwatson> (also, I don't want to change that file unnecessarily because it leads to conffile merge prompts)
16:47:41 <slangasek> bdmurray: should we leave the bug open then, but exclude it somehow with a tag?
16:47:58 <bdmurray> slangasek: exclude it from the bug heat graph? sure
16:48:08 <cjwatson> I'm not being wilfully obstructive here btw, I've just thought about this in the past and concluded that there isn't really much useful I can do ...
16:48:18 <slangasek> bdmurray: and from any other graphs / reports we're using to track bugs of importance
16:48:55 <bdmurray> aren't a lot of duplicates of it automatically reported?  we could so something there at least
16:49:02 <slangasek> cjwatson: right, users following bad advice they get on the Internet and breaking their /etc/default/grub is a social problem, not a technical one
16:49:02 <bdmurray> s/so/do/
16:49:46 <cjwatson> if there's some way to automatically guide people through fixing it, that would be good
16:50:15 <ogra_> doesnt it need an update-grub run ?
16:50:20 <ogra_> after you edited ?
16:50:25 <cjwatson> yes
16:50:31 <ogra_> so that could have a check
16:50:33 <cjwatson> it does
16:50:35 <cjwatson> it fails
16:50:41 <ogra_> aww, ok
16:50:47 <cjwatson> I'm not prepared to let the package install anyway under those circumstances, though
16:50:51 <cjwatson> that's just asking for trouble later
16:50:54 * slangasek nods
16:51:43 <cjwatson> (the bad advice is often unintentional, BTW - unicode quotes and the like - but it's bad advice nonetheless)
16:51:57 <bdmurray> that's all I have
16:52:46 <slangasek> cjwatson: realistically, what's the next step with this bug?  If it's just going to sit open until someone gets around to writing "some way to automatically guide people through fixing it", that's the same as doing nothing
16:54:07 <slangasek> well, let's take that off-line I think :)
16:54:08 <ogra_> how about having it automatically included in /var/backups ... ?
16:54:09 <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
16:54:17 <cjwatson> that's the only plausible next step that I can think of, so I guess if you think that bdmurray or I or somebody should be actioned to fix it ...
16:54:20 <ogra_> so you can at least easily roll back
16:54:49 <slangasek> anything else people want to talk about today?
16:56:24 <slangasek> cjwatson: I think it's going to be a lot of work to produce something (either wiki page or program) that gets people out of the mess in a semi-automated fashion, and I don't think that's a priority right now, no
16:56:51 <slangasek> #endmeeting