20:04:15 <czajkowski> #startmeeting
20:04:15 <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar  6 20:04:15 2012 UTC.  The chair is czajkowski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
20:04:15 <meetingology> 
20:04:15 <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
20:04:24 <czajkowski> welcome to the EMEA today
20:04:37 <czajkowski> thanks for coming and well work our way through the list as they are on the wiki page
20:04:47 <czajkowski> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
20:05:23 <czajkowski> first up is jo-erlend as redmar isn';t here
20:05:31 * trijntje is redmar
20:05:37 <czajkowski> trijntje: ahh ok
20:05:40 <czajkowski> trijntje: start again so
20:05:58 <czajkowski> #topic trijntje Membership
20:06:04 <czajkowski> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/redmar
20:06:11 <czajkowski> trijntje: thanks for coming along
20:06:28 <highvoltage> hi!
20:06:34 <czajkowski> trijntje: so care to tell us about yourself ?
20:07:20 <trijntje> sure. I'm a student from the Netherlands, I've been using ubuntu since Gutsy and my main involvement with ubuntu is with the Dutch Translation Team and helping people via IRC
20:08:17 <czajkowski> trijntje: so how do you feel the Ubuntu community has grown in that time ?
20:08:54 <highvoltage> trijntje: are you involved with any LoCo activities? Have you ever participated in any local translation events before?
20:09:06 <trijntje> I'm not sure about the wider community, since the first few years I only followed the loco team
20:09:53 <trijntje> when I first started translating the dutch team had just been revived by cumulus007 after being dead for a couple of years, so there has been a lot of improvement there
20:10:28 <trijntje> I have participated in a number of online 'translation sprints', but I've not been to any local events in person
20:10:30 <highvoltage> trijntje: if you could change any one thing in the translation community, what would that be?
20:10:39 <highvoltage> (or even Ubuntu, if you like)
20:11:55 <trijntje> We do get quite a number of people who want to join the team, but never really follow through to become a full member. It would be nice if that changed, but I'm not sure how
20:12:35 <trijntje> We've tried a number of things like appointing a mentor for new translators, but that didn't really help
20:12:37 <FireBeard> trijntje: spammed this channel, so I thought I'd join
20:12:57 <trijntje> probably it's just the fact that translating is hard work, and there is alway's more of it ;)
20:13:25 <highvoltage> thanks trijntje
20:13:27 <czajkowski> nods
20:13:32 <ogra_> FireBeard, feel free to tell us about trijntje if you have anything to say or to praise him or so :)
20:13:55 <FireBeard> nah, he just said that you guys were debating him, and asked us to watch
20:14:07 <FireBeard> I'm here for a possible trainwreck ;)
20:14:17 <trijntje> haha
20:14:20 <jo-erlend> :)
20:14:23 <ogra_> heh, great
20:14:27 <czajkowski> ok are we ready to vote folks
20:14:29 * ogra_ is ready to vote
20:14:31 <czajkowski> nice testimonals btw
20:14:44 <ogra_> ++
20:14:52 <FireBeard> I don't know trijntje all that well, he did help me once or twice, when I had a question tho
20:14:53 <trijntje> thanks, though I did not write them ;)
20:14:57 <czajkowski> #voters ogra_ iulian highvoltage drubin czajkowski
20:14:57 <meetingology> Current voters: czajkowski drubin highvoltage iulian ogra_
20:15:01 <ogra_> +1
20:15:03 <iulian> Wait a bit, please.
20:15:04 <drubin> +1
20:15:04 <iulian> Bleh.
20:15:07 <czajkowski> #vote please vote on trijntje membership
20:15:07 <meetingology> Please vote on: please vote on trijntje membership
20:15:07 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
20:15:10 * iulian was wirint something.
20:15:12 <highvoltage> iulian: ok
20:15:18 <drubin> +1
20:15:18 <meetingology> +1 received from drubin
20:15:20 <czajkowski> +1
20:15:20 <meetingology> +1 received from czajkowski
20:15:23 <iulian> +1 from me anyway.
20:15:23 <meetingology> +1 from me anyway. received from iulian
20:15:36 <highvoltage> +1 [ good translation effort, good testimonial from peers ]
20:15:36 <meetingology> +1 [ good translation effort, good testimonial from peers ] received from highvoltage
20:15:55 <czajkowski> ogra_: you can vote now you voted before I called the vote :)_
20:16:04 <ogra_> +1
20:16:04 <meetingology> +1 received from ogra_
20:16:07 <stgraber> +1
20:16:17 <czajkowski> #endvote
20:16:17 <meetingology> Voting ended on: please vote on trijntje membership
20:16:17 <meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
20:16:17 <meetingology> Motion carried
20:16:21 <czajkowski> 6 really
20:16:23 <czajkowski> :)
20:16:26 <czajkowski> stgraber: welcome :)
20:16:27 <ogra_> :)
20:16:31 <czajkowski> trijntje: welcome aboard
20:16:33 <Oer> o/ redmar
20:16:35 <ogra_> welcome aboard trijntje
20:16:37 <trijntje> \0/
20:16:40 <stgraber> czajkowski: 20:02  * stgraber waves
20:16:41 <trijntje> thanks a lot!
20:16:44 <stgraber> czajkowski: :)
20:16:56 <czajkowski> #topic jo-erlend membership
20:16:57 <jo-erlend> trijntje, congrats \o/  :)
20:16:58 <FireBeard> congratulations trijntje
20:17:02 <czajkowski> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JoErlendSchinstad
20:17:10 <highvoltage> I'm ready to vote
20:17:21 * ogra_ too, but i have one question though
20:17:23 <FireBeard> you already voted, didn't you?
20:17:34 <czajkowski> jo-erlend: thanks for coming
20:17:39 <ogra_> "it's better to drown your sorrows than teach them how to swim"
20:17:42 <jo-erlend> thanks for having me. :)
20:17:48 <ogra_> jo-erlend, in what do you drown them usually ?
20:17:50 <ogra_> met ?
20:18:19 * ogra_ thinks thats one of these candidates where we all think "huh, he isnt a member yet" ?
20:18:25 <FireBeard> glad to witnessed this, bye
20:18:40 <highvoltage> ogra_: indeed.
20:18:47 <jo-erlend> ogra_, hehe, that depends on the situation. :)
20:18:52 * stgraber is ready to vote
20:18:58 <iulian> jo-erlend: What situation? :)
20:19:06 * iulian too.
20:19:49 <czajkowski> jo-erlend: so recently you've been rather vocal on the unity mailing list, do you think being a member will make you step back a bit before you reply sometimes and possibly think more about the CoC and the fact you're an Ubutnu member?
20:20:35 <highvoltage> Personally I think it's better for someone to step over the line a bit now and again than be afraid to speak up and participate.
20:20:37 <jo-erlend> czajkowski, I try to consider the CoC in any case. I don't always succeed, but I do take it seriously, or I wouldn't have signed it.
20:21:00 <czajkowski> hmm ok
20:21:11 <iulian> Fair enough.
20:21:32 <czajkowski> jo-erlend: how do you see your role in the community growning ?
20:21:34 <jo-erlend> if you look at the large number of debates I've participated in, I think you'll find that I hardly ever loose my cool. And when I do, I have no fear of apologizing for it afterwards.
20:22:41 <highvoltage> It's also really easy for someone to read something into an email that isn't even there.
20:22:43 <jo-erlend> czajkowski, my involvement with askubuntu won't be reduced. I've recently taken over as a contact for the Norwegian loco, and I'm just beginning to connect to different news media
20:22:59 <czajkowski> ok
20:23:22 <czajkowski> anyother questions or comments folks?
20:23:30 <drubin> nope
20:23:32 <highvoltage> I've seen calm conversations on lists between people I know and then I have someone else who reads it who comes to my desk and say "omg did you see that flameware on ubuntu-devel!?"... and then I explain to them that it's not that at all, and it's easier to tell when you know the people somewhat.
20:23:35 <jo-erlend> I'm getting more serious about my work with support, documentation and ... PR. But I'm also working more on code now.
20:24:27 <czajkowski> #voters ogra_ iulian drubin highvoltage stgraber czajkowski
20:24:27 <meetingology> Current voters: czajkowski drubin highvoltage iulian ogra_ stgraber
20:24:34 <ogra_> +1
20:24:39 <highvoltage> +1
20:24:43 <iulian> +1
20:24:47 <czajkowski> wait!!!!
20:24:59 <czajkowski> #vote please vote on jo-erlend application
20:24:59 <meetingology> Please vote on: please vote on jo-erlend application
20:24:59 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
20:25:02 <stgraber> hehe, that's just #voters, it's not #vote yet ;)
20:25:03 <stgraber> +1
20:25:03 <meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
20:25:09 <czajkowski> +1
20:25:09 <meetingology> +1 received from czajkowski
20:25:09 <highvoltage> +1
20:25:09 <meetingology> +1 received from highvoltage
20:25:11 <iulian> Oh, blimey.
20:25:11 <iulian> +1
20:25:11 <meetingology> +1 received from iulian
20:25:15 <ogra_> +1 [no comment ...]
20:25:15 <meetingology> +1 [no comment ...] received from ogra_
20:25:29 <drubin> +1
20:25:29 <meetingology> +1 received from drubin
20:25:44 <czajkowski> #endvote
20:25:44 <meetingology> Voting ended on: please vote on jo-erlend application
20:25:44 <meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
20:25:44 <meetingology> Motion carried
20:25:48 <czajkowski> huzzah
20:25:51 <czajkowski> welcome aboard
20:25:57 <ogra_> finally ... welcome jo-erlend
20:25:57 <jo-erlend> thanks! \o/
20:26:01 <iulian> Congrats, jo-erlend.
20:26:02 <highvoltage> jo-erlend: congratulations and welcome
20:26:08 <Oer> o/ jo-erlend
20:26:09 <trijntje> congrats jo-erlend, your wiki page made me jalous ;)
20:26:16 <heartsmagic> congrats jo-erlend
20:26:22 <iulian> czajkowski: Next one please.
20:26:27 <heartsmagic> andl also trijntje
20:26:29 <czajkowski> #topic heartsmagic membership application
20:26:33 <czajkowski> iulian: patience
20:26:43 <czajkowski> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/heartsmagic
20:27:07 <czajkowski> heartsmagic: welcome and thanks for coming to the meeting
20:27:12 <heartsmagic> thank you
20:27:26 <iulian> Welcome heartsmagic.
20:28:31 <czajkowski> heartsmagic: so care to tell us about you and your role in the ubuntu community ?
20:29:50 <heartsmagic> my name is serkan and ı am 32 years old. I have been managing Ubuntu Turkey Loco team as I stated for many years with my friends. I think this is the biggest role for me in the Ubuntu community
20:30:33 <heartsmagic> we have some subgroups, I am trying to keep them alive
20:30:56 <ogra_> hmm, if you are leading the LoCO there was nobody wanting to write a testimonial for you ?
20:31:05 <highvoltage> heartsmagic: does the loco team have a website or list of accomplishments?
20:31:12 <highvoltage> heartsmagic: is it an official loco?
20:31:26 <czajkowski> #link http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-tr/events/history
20:31:38 <heartsmagic> ogra_, honostly I dint tell them
20:32:03 <ogra_> ooh, you should have done ... testimonials weight a lot in our decision process
20:32:06 <heartsmagic> highvoltage, we don't keep a list like that, and we are not an *official* loco team right now
20:32:07 <iulian> heartsmagic: It's an important step for you. I think that you should've.
20:33:00 <heartsmagic> sure, but there is not any testimonials right now, sorry
20:34:23 <czajkowski> heartsmagic: we do look at how people interact with the community not just their loco
20:34:32 <czajkowski> is there someone else who could vouch for you?
20:34:56 <ogra_> (how about bytan who leads the loco with you)
20:35:08 <heartsmagic> vouch for me?
20:35:21 <heartsmagic> then who vouch for bytan :)
20:35:23 <ogra_> write a testimonial ...
20:35:25 <highvoltage> heartsmagic: loco work is definitely hard work. it's great that you've been keeping up with it over the years
20:35:32 <ogra_> or come to the meeting and praise you etc
20:35:55 <heartsmagic> czajkowski, I am interacting with community through our Loco
20:36:05 <highvoltage> heartsmagic: it's useful for us if we could hear back from other people who have worked with you. they can leave a message under testimonials and also cheer for you in the RMB meetings
20:36:45 <czajkowski> heartsmagic: I think it would be better if you could come back at another meeting with some testimonals on your page as it's rather hard now to judge
20:37:02 <czajkowski> rather than giving you a -1 its what I would recommend tbh
20:37:25 <czajkowski> ogra_: highvoltage stgraber iulian drubin thoughts?
20:37:30 <drubin> I am for czajkowski's suggestion
20:37:32 * ogra_ agrees
20:37:37 <highvoltage> yep
20:37:39 <stgraber> yep
20:37:47 <iulian> heartsmagic: Also, it would be nice if you could improve your wiki page.
20:37:53 <czajkowski> heartsmagic: I dont like turning people donw and discouraging people
20:37:57 <drubin> I think you heartsmagic is on the right path but hard to judge been reading every thing
20:37:58 <heartsmagic> again pr :)
20:38:10 <czajkowski> but if yo coudl update the wiki page and get testimonals it really would be better to come back then :)
20:38:13 <czajkowski> please
20:38:24 * iulian nods.
20:38:29 <heartsmagic> no I wont i think :)
20:38:36 <iulian> heartsmagic: Why's that?
20:39:06 <heartsmagic> I mean if telling how I participate is not enogh for you, I wont insist on being a member
20:39:24 <drubin> If you don't want to come back to re-apply why would you want to apply in the first place
20:39:25 <heartsmagic> testimonials is good but musnt be a mandatory
20:39:36 <ogra_> heartsmagic, we are supposed to judge by your interaction with others over the time you worked with the community, if nobody tells us about how you helped them, how should we judge ?
20:39:58 <iulian> heartsmagic: No, that's the whole point. You should try again. I have to disagree with you on that, testimonials play a very important role.
20:40:00 <drubin> heartsmagic: Yes but all your work has been working with people not writing code or answering forums or translations so there is no way for us to double check on things
20:40:08 <highvoltage> heartsmagic: you don't have to insist. we think you're membership material but we'd like some feedback from the people you have worked with. unfortunately the ubuntu project is too big for us to know everyone personally, so we can't instictively know what you have done in the past.
20:40:28 <highvoltage> and that's standard procedure for every singly person who has applied for membership before.
20:40:31 <heartsmagic> I got it, but you asked why
20:40:40 <ogra_> heartsmagic, testimonials are  not mandatory, but your wikipage doesnt really list much we can checkm the wikipage of your locoteam neither etc
20:40:53 <highvoltage> heartsmagic: ok, it's up to you though. thanks for joining the meeting today.
20:41:03 <ogra_> testimonials would weight out the lacking bits for sure
20:41:26 <heartsmagic> ok your call again
20:41:34 <ogra_> no, yours
20:41:39 <ogra_> give us more info
20:41:47 <heartsmagic> more info?
20:41:48 <ogra_> and show up in the next meeting
20:41:52 <czajkowski> #endmeeting