20:00:36 <phillw> #startmeeting lubuntu meeting
20:00:36 <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Feb 29 20:00:36 2012 UTC.  The chair is phillw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
20:00:36 <meetingology> 
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20:01:08 <phillw> Hi, Julien can't make it, so you'll have to put up with me again!
20:01:34 <phillw> #topic previous actions
20:01:45 <phillw> There are no previous actions
20:01:57 <phillw> #topic show of hands of atendees
20:01:58 <rafaellaguna> hi (and glad to see you as chairman again, phillw)
20:02:01 <phillw> (oops)
20:02:15 <Unit193> /o\
20:02:18 <phillw> can those present please o/
20:02:23 <michael_rawson> \o/
20:02:25 <Yorvyk> o/
20:02:26 <phillw> or kick me
20:02:45 <moergaes> mörgæs o/
20:03:21 <StephenSmally> o/ (?)
20:03:21 <phillw> okies, others can pipe up as and when they are here.
20:03:34 <phillw> #topic report from QA
20:03:51 <phillw> Right, please bear with me on this one. It will take a while.
20:04:07 <rafaellaguna> :)
20:04:29 <phillw> As you will all be aware, lubuntu is crawling over qa testing like a rash at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/reports/bugs/938472
20:04:38 <phillw> bug 938472
20:04:40 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 938472 in lubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "dialogs are barely readable-- grey on black????" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/938472
20:04:57 <rafaellaguna> me -> angry
20:05:09 <phillw> The main discussion on QA tonight was how to prevent this ever happeneing again.
20:05:36 <rafaellaguna> yep, and prevent people two days trying to figure out what's happening
20:05:36 <phillw> to this end, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/DesktopCriticalPackages was pointed out.
20:06:17 <phillw> The discussion on QA is now taking place on the mailing list. Rafael & Julien are being cc'd developments
20:06:32 <phillw> please do bear in mind, that the QA meeting was only 3 hours ago.
20:07:19 <david_j_r> o/  (sorry - just registering late presence for archivak purposes!)
20:07:28 <phillw> The co-ordinator, and others on the QA team agree that this was a failure, a big failure in that something hit the archives without being fully checked.
20:07:56 <rafaellaguna> the package was changed in Ubuntu main repos
20:08:16 <phillw> I've just had an email from rafaellaguna, but I ask that he give you the latest that he has.
20:08:58 <rafaellaguna> I mean, if there're some filters for other packages, why some ones don't? because they look less critical, as they are art related
20:10:21 <phillw> rafaellaguna: imho, I don't think any one realised that they could completely bork a system.
20:10:54 <phillw> i was not aware of that lisy until tonights meeting.
20:11:01 <phillw> /s/lisy/list/
20:11:21 <rafaellaguna> @phillw: agree
20:11:21 <meetingology> rafaellaguna: Error: "phillw:" is not a valid command.
20:11:41 <rafaellaguna> phillw: agree
20:12:10 <phillw> The time for anger, is later. The $64,000 question, rafaellaguna, is can you overcome this?
20:12:45 <rafaellaguna> I'm working on a solution with our theme, I can't do aymore until they publish the changes
20:13:00 <rafaellaguna> or correct the bugs (making old themes syntax compatible)
20:13:20 <phillw> rafaellaguna: have you raised a bug against the packages?
20:13:26 <rafaellaguna> in the meantime we can go to Adwaita style, but imagine what means this for a designer like me
20:13:37 <rafaellaguna> nope
20:14:00 <phillw> can you do so. you are best placed to explain the bug.
20:14:13 <rafaellaguna> I need to collect some info from Unico and GTK before submitting a bug
20:14:23 <skaet> if there is a fix ready for this,   please ping me in the #ubuntu-release channel (or NCommander,Riddell) and we'll trigger respins for you.   Do you want to revert back to the prior version of the artwork for beta 1?
20:14:38 <rafaellaguna> but I'll do, and I'll contact with Andrea Cimitan
20:14:59 <rafaellaguna> skaet: the problem is not the theme, I have it working on Oneiric, even with the last modifications
20:15:11 <phillw> rafaellaguna: I assure you, that to the limit of politeness I used as strong phrases as I could to explain our feelings on having 7 days of ISO testing stopped, the additional work dropped on you with no prior warning etc.
20:15:54 <skaet> rafaellaguna, ok.
20:15:57 <rafaellaguna> phillw: that's no problem, we're here for that
20:16:18 <rafaellaguna> skaet: and obvioulsy they cannot revert to prior versions on GTK
20:16:40 <rafaellaguna> phillw: I'm sure about that :D
20:17:30 <phillw> rafaellaguna: well, it is a monumental fail, such a regression should not have gotten through. It did, now a solution has to be found.
20:18:03 <rafaellaguna> I think the best thing we can do is, for the beta launch, switch to a more compatible theme
20:18:06 <phillw> #action rafaellaguna raise bug for GTK and Unico
20:18:06 * meetingology rafaellaguna raise bug for GTK and Unico
20:18:16 <rafaellaguna> I hate it, but we need to read the screen :|
20:18:26 <phillw> rafaellaguna: sadly, yes.
20:19:00 <michael_rawson> very sad considering the work gone into the theme.
20:19:26 <phillw> rafaellaguna: any ideas on how long it will take to get a working prototype up and running?
20:19:29 <rafaellaguna> yes :(
20:20:07 <rafaellaguna> phillw: as Adwaita engine has changed too (more annoyances) I'll need a few days to study the new syntax
20:20:20 <phillw> okies rafaellaguna
20:20:34 <phillw> and just for our logs.. a quick copy - paste
20:20:36 <phillw> (17:19:01) phillw: IMHO, it was an epic fail via QA for this to happen. We had no warning nor information. Just black screens.
20:20:36 <phillw> (17:20:20) balloons: alrighty. good luck, I'm looking at the screenshot of the issue
20:20:36 <phillw> (17:20:34) balloons: thata's no fun.. and very vague as to what could be the issue
20:20:36 <phillw> (17:20:37) phillw: so, the request is - is there any way to stop this in thre future?
20:20:36 <phillw> (17:20:38) balloons: glad you isolated it
20:20:36 <phillw> (17:20:55) anjar_95 [~anders@3.79-160-53.customer.lyse.net] entered the room.
20:20:36 <phillw> (17:21:02) phillw: our graphics guy is proud of his work and was gutted over it :(
20:20:37 <phillw> (17:21:13) balloons: :-( that's no good at all
20:20:53 <rafaellaguna> but I already started to tweak Adwaita on my system, so I hope release a new theme in 3 or 4 days
20:20:56 <rafaellaguna> is it too late?
20:21:33 <phillw> rafaellaguna: it will not have to be.
20:22:03 <balloons> hello
20:22:08 <rafaellaguna> oh, btw, I have fresh news (1 min ago) that OpenSuse is habing the sme problem
20:22:09 <phillw> rafaellaguna: I've just asked balloons to join
20:22:30 <balloons> so, you know the issue, and the cause of the issue.. canyou link the bug again phillw ?
20:22:35 <phillw> rafaellaguna: I know it is repeating, but can you let balloons kniow what you're going to ned
20:22:48 <rafaellaguna> of course
20:22:50 <phillw> need
20:23:00 <rafaellaguna> him balloons
20:23:14 <phillw> bug 938472
20:23:15 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 938472 in lubuntu-artwork (Ubuntu) "dialogs are barely readable-- grey on black????" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/938472
20:23:39 <rafaellaguna> yep, but that bug should be redirected, lubuntu-artwork has not the problem
20:24:19 <phillw> rafaellaguna: that can be done :) I know it is not your fault. You were the one who found the problem from a messy bug report.
20:24:19 <rafaellaguna> I insist (for balloons :D) it's a "but" on GTK / Unico engine that makes old syntax incompatible, so it result in some black drawings
20:24:36 <rafaellaguna> "BUG"
20:25:24 <rafaellaguna> sincerely, I see my faults inmediatly when designing,  also that's frankbooth who first checks every piece I design
20:26:33 <phillw> balloons: rafaellaguna reckons 3 - 4 days before he has even a 'basic' theme going. In the meantime, the clock on testing is stuck & we end up with all that work trashed and a horrible desktop for a full member of the ubuntu familiy. It's not really acceptable?
20:26:58 <rafaellaguna> another thing, this bug makes Opera browser unsuable (it really quits the program), so they are really nervous and yuo know what's happening with Ubuntu confiability
20:27:27 <moergaes> I think everybody gets the point. No need to rub it in.
20:27:38 <phillw> this looks like a fairly critical bug?
20:27:42 <rafaellaguna> phillw: you can use the temporary theme I sent Julien while I'm working
20:27:56 <phillw> moergaes: au contraire.... the more information, the better.
20:28:06 * balloons is reading the bug
20:28:48 <phillw> skaet: can you get that theme re-spun into the isos so we can at least re-start testing?
20:29:18 <skaet> phillw,  upload it,  I'll shepherd it through and respin for you after it builds/lands.
20:30:03 <StephenSmally> I don't want to be unencouraging, but we can also pick up a simple gtk2/3 theme from gnome-look or something if we haven't time
20:30:07 <phillw> rafaellaguna: can you make it available for skaet please? We really do need to have 'something' for testing. I know you hate it,
20:30:47 <balloons> phillw, rafaellaguna I agree.. something basic.. this isn't the final shipping version, so no worries on the basic theme
20:30:48 <skaet> After all the bits are in the archive,  its less than an hour to images.
20:30:57 <phillw> StephenSmally: I think most of those are also borked, rafaellaguna can confirm.
20:31:07 <rafaellaguna> stephen, the GTK2 part is working fine, it's just the GTK3 one. And the desktop uses in a 75% GTK2, so we can still use the lubuntu theme
20:31:36 <rafaellaguna> skaet: how can I send you the temporary theme?
20:31:46 <balloons> i haven't been following lxde closely enough.. I know xfce is swapping next version to gtk3.. is lxde?
20:32:01 <rafaellaguna> balloons: yes, we're moving to GTK3
20:32:11 <balloons> ok, and is that move happening this cycle?
20:32:28 <michael_rawson> I think it's a gradual process.
20:32:42 <rafaellaguna> no, there're too many dis-integrated apps, so we cannot do this in one shot
20:32:42 <skaet> rafaellaguna, we'll need to get a lubuntu developer to package it,  then I can help once he uploads to archive.  (gilir?)
20:32:50 <StephenSmally> is real slow, since the main part are blockec (libfm->pcmanfm)
20:33:07 <StephenSmally> *blocked
20:33:07 <rafaellaguna> skaet: I can make a new branch on lubuntu team
20:33:28 <StephenSmally> lxpanel is being rewrited in gtk3, so...
20:33:40 <balloons> thanks.. got it.. So yea, I think this is part of those migration pains.. The good news is gtk3 is nicer and lets you do more things. you just gotta get there.. patience is a virtue here.. slow and steady
20:33:46 <skaet> gilir, ^ can you help get the branch up to the archive.
20:34:09 <phillw> hopefully he will be available later.
20:34:21 <phillw> skaet: he usually chairs the meetings :)
20:34:47 <rafaellaguna> I like current chairman :)
20:35:09 <rafaellaguna> the usual procedure is packaging into my branch, then gilir can copy to archive
20:35:17 <skaet> phillw,  :)  okie.    I'll make sure to check in #ubuntu-release channel for a ping from him (or another developer able to do the upload) ever hour or so this evening.
20:35:40 <phillw> so, rafaellaguna can you wait to pounce on Julian and get the temp theme up so the re-spins can happen a.s.a.p.?
20:35:58 <rafaellaguna> yes
20:36:02 <phillw> hyperair: ping... Well, I can always hope :)
20:36:16 <hyperair> phillw: ?
20:36:34 <phillw> hyperair: can you get the temp theme uploaded>?
20:36:40 <hyperair> temp theme?
20:37:30 <phillw> hyperair: there was a change to GTK Unico which broke lubuntu theme, rafaellaguna has a temp fix, but needs a dev to get it uploaded so the iso's can be respun
20:39:05 <phillw> Julien is afk, and you are the only fully MOTU for lubuntu I know :)
20:39:17 <hyperair> okay, got a link?
20:39:18 <rafaellaguna> want one?
20:39:18 <hyperair> yes please
20:39:18 <rafaellaguna> wait...
20:39:19 <phillw> +only other
20:39:42 <rafaellaguna> hyperair: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/133108/lubuntu3b.tar.gz
20:40:00 <hyperair> er hang on, what source package is this?
20:40:09 <hyperair> i was kinda expecting a .dsc..
20:40:25 <rafaellaguna> hyperair: it's just Adwaita standard for the GTK3 part, leaving GTK2 intact
20:40:34 <rafaellaguna> hyperair: I thought you wanted the theme
20:40:57 <rafaellaguna> if you want the source branch I need a bit more time (tomorrow)
20:41:07 <hyperair> well you need me to upload something into the ubuntu archive...
20:41:17 <hyperair> and i can only upload source packages
20:41:20 <hyperair> so where's the source package?
20:41:31 <rafaellaguna> ok, let's do it via Launchpad
20:41:37 <hyperair> sure
20:41:45 <StephenSmally> well, i think you should create a new branch and put the pkg in the lubuntu ppa
20:41:49 <rafaellaguna> tomorrow
20:42:55 <hyperair> tbh, i'm bzr-averse
20:42:57 <hyperair> i'll gladly take a patch
20:44:43 <rafaellaguna> ok, I need to leave
20:44:48 <michael_rawson> bye!
20:44:52 <phillw> okies rafaellaguna
20:45:08 <rafaellaguna> so, tomorrow I'll push a new temp branch on lubuntu artwork team
20:45:22 <phillw> thanks rafaellaguna
20:45:53 <rafaellaguna> new information arrived just now about the solution, iI'll work on it during the day and hope it work
20:46:11 <rafaellaguna> confirmed: it seems an error  on GTK modules translating HEX colour codes
20:46:57 <rafaellaguna> it's already declared on bugzilla, and Gnome boys are aware of that
20:47:21 <rafaellaguna> see you tomorrow, guys :)
20:47:56 <phillw> well, the rest of the meeting should be fairly quick..... the only other QA issue was it seems the lubuntu-ppc version is not installing on G3 Macs, but this is held up slightly as we are missing the ability to test stuff.
20:48:06 <rafaellaguna> bye all
20:48:30 <phillw> Unit193: anything to report on IRC?
20:48:44 * david_j_r Lubuntu punter thanks rafaellaguna for perseving.
20:48:57 <Unit193> Might be, but can't think of anything except the reminder of the upcoming session.
20:49:31 <phillw> there's nothing really of note from comms or support
20:49:41 <moergaes> Well, I have something
20:49:55 <moergaes> I believe that the new web site is getting ready to launch.
20:50:02 <phillw> moergaes: the floor is yours
20:50:10 <moergaes> Thanks
20:50:14 <moergaes> It is on www.whiteboar.info
20:50:24 <moergaes> Just need some minor work on the themes.
20:50:30 <moergaes> Shouldn't take long,
20:50:41 <phillw> I've seen it, it looks impressive (even though it does not render on Chrome)
20:50:59 <moergaes> That surprises me.
20:51:09 <moergaes> Works in Chromium.
20:51:15 <StephenSmally> seems good
20:51:37 <phillw> It's just one of logos' that has a problem, works fine in FFox, and I'm using an older Chrome.
20:51:37 <moergaes> Thanks.
20:51:55 <Unit193> Anything I test will be in FF12
20:52:04 <michael_rawson> works fine in chrome for me.
20:52:11 <moergaes> Please give it a spin, everybody.
20:52:28 <moergaes> (not necessarily now)
20:52:37 <phillw> michael_rawson: I'm on 7.0.517.44
20:53:09 <phillw> okies, thanks to the team who have taken a 'would like to get done' to actually getting it done!
20:53:12 <StephenSmally> moergaes: the pic in "Using" should be updated
20:53:13 <moergaes> Phill, are you the one managing the web hotel?
20:53:28 <michael_rawson> phillw - say what? IP address?
20:53:32 <david_j_r> was just going to make that point about the picture too
20:53:38 <moergaes> Thanks, noted.
20:54:25 <phillw> Chris is not about, I'm still working on getting a deffinitative answer on the use of the tags for the older duplicates and triplicates of wiki support pages.
20:54:35 <moergaes> phillw: Thanks for that :-)
20:55:20 <phillw> Hopefully it will be 2 minutes on QA next week and the rest of time for everything else.
20:55:21 <StephenSmally> Just another thing, wouldn't be better if the left pane was really on left? i mean, completely on the left?
20:55:40 <moergaes> We can always make small adjustments.
20:55:46 <phillw> As julien is not about, does any dev have anything to update us on the dev side of things?
20:56:33 <phillw> #topic any other business
20:56:51 <phillw> any one got something to add?
20:58:02 <phillw> okies, thanks to everyone who attended (and thanks to balloons for popping in).
20:58:09 <phillw> #topic next meeting
20:58:24 <balloons> yvw phillw
20:58:46 <phillw> next meeting 20:00 UTC #ubuntu-meeting 7th March 2012
20:58:57 <phillw> #endmeeting