19:06:58 #startmeeting 19:06:58 Meeting started Mon Jan 2 19:06:58 2012 UTC. The chair is cody-somerville. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot. 19:06:58 19:06:58 Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired 19:07:30 #topic Review of previous action items 19:07:41 #subtopic cody-somerville to write some documentation on how to endorse someone 19:08:19 I have a draft prepared and will be sending it to DMB mailing list today. 19:08:35 #topic stgraber to create desktop-extra set 19:08:51 stgraber is absent, will carry action item 19:09:09 #topic bdrung to talk to the TB about harmonising DMB members' expiration dates for easier restaffing 19:09:30 bdrung, you have the floor :) 19:10:20 sorry, i haven't asked the TB yet 19:11:43 Acked. Action carried. 19:12:05 #topic MOTU Applications: Mahyuddin Susanto 19:12:14 #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MahyuddinSusanto/MOTUApplication 19:12:50 udienz, Hello. Could you please indicate you're present by introducing yourself and your application? 19:12:54 Sure 19:13:02 My name is Mahyuddin Susanto, i'm 26 Indonesian. 19:13:12 I have been contributing to universe for almost a year, i started contributing to Ubuntu when binutils-gold transitions. 19:13:31 I'm doing sync, merge, SRU in Ubuntu, perhaps over 100 packages have been uploaded. 19:13:50 In Debian, i stated at least 2 years but for packaging i have been started for a year. I'm Debian Maintainer and my QA page is http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=udienz@ubuntu.com&comaint=yes. I have migrating proftpd/cacti/pdnsd from cdbs (pdnsd), dpatch (proftpd/cacti) to quilt. I'm not always use quilt but quilt is my best chioce for patching system. 19:14:22 I'm also packaging from strach in Ubuntu, named gkamus and aspell-id. All my packages in Debian (with co-maintained) easily sync from Debian. 19:14:47 .enough 19:15:24 why did you choose to package those things directly in Ubuntu? 19:16:30 Laney, it just technical problem. I've already RFS-ing both packages but i'm not got sponsorship in debian 19:19:15 ok 19:19:25 (stupid connection keeps hanging) 19:20:11 udienz: are you aware of the various freezes and what is appropriate to be uploaded during those times? 19:21:42 micahg, yes i aware, during FF i cannot import packages except those packages fixing bugs or really important 19:22:01 udienz, How do you determine if its really important or not? 19:22:16 and who can you ask if unsure? 19:22:50 cody-somerville, depend on bug importance, effecting many users, security bug, ftbfs 19:23:31 Laney, if im unsure i'll ask in #ubuntu-motu first 19:23:42 or #ubuntu-devel 19:24:01 udienz: so, after feature freeze if a lot of users were requesting a new version of a program with new features, you'd upload it? 19:25:14 micahg, i;m not really sure, but if new upstream version fixing many important bug, i'll ask to other dev first rather than direct upload 19:26:04 *i'm not sure 19:26:36 udienz: are you subscribed to ubuntu-devel-announce? 19:27:00 udienz, What role does the release team play and how can they help you? 19:27:03 tumbleweed, yes, also #ubuntu-discuss, #ubuntu-motu 19:27:50 udienz: he meant the mailing list, not irc channel 19:28:12 cody-somerville, during FF release team will five input wether package accepted or not 19:28:25 bdrung, sorry i mean list 19:29:14 s/ubuntu-discuss/devel-discuss 19:30:03 udienz: are you referring to Feature Freeze or Final Freeze when you say FF 19:31:27 udienz, With your recent merge of laptop-mode-tools, could you explain why you decided to do a merge instead of a sync (maybe after trying to push the change upstream?): https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/laptop-mode-tools/1.60-1ubuntu1 19:32:03 micahg, Feature Freeze in first and Final Freeze while i answered cody-somerville. Sorry a little panic at here 19:32:22 udienz, No need to panic. :) 19:33:56 cody-somerville, i forget about last change :( 19:34:49 udienz, No problem. Good example of why its not a bad idea to note such reasons in the changelog - to make it easier to remember. 19:35:10 Do any other members have questions before we proceed to vote? 19:35:28 one quick one 19:36:09 jdstrand's concerns were mostly about minor details such as checking the changelog and upload destination 19:36:43 which file is a good one to quickly skim over before uploading? 19:37:39 tumbleweed, sorry. what is skim? 19:38:03 to read quickly, to check for mistakes 19:39:10 tumbleweed, i think patch files and changelog (by read at debdiff) 19:39:29 yes, that's a good idea, when it's short enough to be readable 19:39:45 I also suggest looking at the .changes file, I sometimes notice that I forgot to close bugs, when I look at that 19:40:17 right, it lists as one of the lines in the .changes file all the bugs closed by the upload 19:40:56 udienz: have you ever file for a freeze exception and when do you think it's appropriate to do so? 19:41:20 *filed 19:42:59 micahg, i'm not remember but i haven't filed freeze exceptions. I think when the changes solved important bug. Like my statement before 19:43:57 udienz: have you read the documentation regarding freeze exceptions? 19:44:40 yes 19:47:56 #vote MOTU Applications: Mahyuddin Susanto 19:47:56 Please vote on: MOTU Applications: Mahyuddin Susanto 19:47:56 Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) 19:49:07 bdrung is afk at the moment but has voted +1 19:49:32 +1 [ and please ask the release team if you need any guidance during freezes ] 19:49:32 +1 [ and please ask the release team if you need any guidance during freezes ] received from tumbleweed 19:49:37 +1 19:49:37 +1 received from cody-somerville 19:50:26 +1 19:50:26 +1 received from Laney 19:51:34 +0 good work overall, but I'm a little concerned over freezes still (part of the difference between uploading to Ubuntu rather than Debian is knowing what's appropriate when as it comes up a lot more often) 19:51:34 +0 good work overall, but I'm a little concerned over freezes still (part of the difference between uploading to Ubuntu rather than Debian is knowing what's appropriate when as it comes up a lot more often) received from micahg 19:52:42 #endvote 19:52:42 Voting ended on: MOTU Applications: Mahyuddin Susanto 19:52:42 Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1 19:52:42 Motion carried 19:53:03 udienz, Congratulations. Welcome to MOTU. 19:53:32 Thanks cody-somerville, micahg, tumbleweed, Laney and bdrung! 19:53:53 congrats! 19:54:02 #topic Ubuntu Core Developer Applications: Evan Broder 19:54:07 o/ 19:54:08 #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EvanBroder/CoreDevApplication 19:54:15 broder, Please introduce yourself and your application. 19:54:48 Hi folks. I'm Evan, and I'm applying for core dev. I've been contributing to Ubuntu since late 2008, and I've been a member of MOTU since late 2009 19:54:59 I work a lot on backports and SRUs. I try to help with sponsorship as much as I can 19:55:08 Past that it's a lot of pretty random stuff 19:55:54 I started at a SF Bay Area startup about a year and a half ago, where I'm basically working on an Ubuntu derivative, which means that I get to spend even more time working on Ubuntu now 19:56:17 I also setup http://lintian.ubuntuwire.org/ and have been working to improve it to make it more useful to Ubuntu 19:56:20 . 19:57:34 broder, Where do you see yourself in three years? 20:00:35 Hmm, I'm not really sure. In terms of Ubuntu, I really value being a part of the developer community, and I don't think that's likely to change. I definitely feel like my involvement in the community is increasing over time, and I think it's possible that I'll hit the high point of that soon, but I don't expect to completely vanish 20:02:13 broder, What do you feel is the most important quality of a strong leader? 20:06:56 I think that leadership is about solving problems, whether those are at a technical level, or personal level, or whatever, so the most important thing is to be able to understand problems, and to be able to dig below the surface of problems 20:10:29 I'm a bit afraid to poke your "what I like least about ubuntu" statements, as those are things we spend hours discussing over beer at every UDS 20:12:05 I'll admit there that my thoughts in the area aren't quite as fully-baked as I'd like, but I still feel pretty strongly about the overall concept 20:12:11 I think you may be right about putting more emphesis on the upstream and less on the gardening, but when we are all gardeners, that's hard 20:12:38 I suppose I should do something about that "put project cleansweep jobs into the sponsorship queue" task... 20:13:10 I'm not actually convinced that we're all gardeners, even if we're all garden*ing*. If you look at the people who are top contributors to the project, they're all very skilled developers and debuggers, too 20:13:42 I guess so, and we aren't here for the gardening 20:14:29 I do think there's an important side-point that we should be thinking as hard as we can on ways to automate or eliminate gardening 20:15:46 broder, Where do you think time can be found to do upstream patch review? 20:15:58 well, I don't think it's something we can eliminate, but automation can certainly help 20:17:01 cody-somerville: We've talked about incorporating operation cleansweep into the responsibilities of patch piloting. I think that's the obvious place to at least start 20:18:12 well, it's already part of patch piloting when people exhaust opportunities in the sponsorship queue 20:18:28 Any additional questions? 20:19:27 micahg: It's nominally part of patch piloting, but I don't think that's actually happened in practice. I think getting some items from cleansweep onto the sponsor queue is a prerequisite for that 20:19:56 broder: I've seen people reporting on it in their pilot reports to ubuntu-devel@l.u.c 20:20:16 broder: you talked about automation. do you see any places where we could add automation? 20:22:25 bdrung: Well, I guess one example could be the multiarch stuff. Based on my experiences multiarching the gtkmm stack, I think an initial attempt at multiarch-ification could be done by a script if it had enough awareness of common types of packaging, etc. 20:22:39 Obviously the output would need to be sanity checked 20:23:14 if we could only get upstreams to stop hardcoding paths 20:24:36 #vote Ubuntu Core Developer Applications: Evan Broder 20:24:36 Please vote on: Ubuntu Core Developer Applications: Evan Broder 20:24:36 Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) 20:24:49 +1 20:24:49 +1 received from cody-somerville 20:24:50 +1 20:24:50 +1 received from tumbleweed 20:25:09 +1 good packaging work, good project leadership 20:25:09 +1 good packaging work, good project leadership received from micahg 20:25:22 +1 20:25:22 +1 received from bdrung 20:25:25 Laney provides +1 20:25:38 stgraber did as well IIRC 20:25:46 stgraber provides +1 20:25:50 #endvote 20:25:50 Voting ended on: Ubuntu Core Developer Applications: Evan Broder 20:25:50 Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0 20:25:50 Motion carried 20:26:03 broder: congrats 20:26:03 Thanks everybody :-D 20:26:04 broder, Congratulations. Welcome to Core Dev. 20:26:30 broder, If you have any questions about your new responsibilities, please don't hesitate to get in contact with the DMB or a fellow core developer. 20:26:40 * broder nods 20:26:54 Anyhow, that, I believe, concludes today's meeting. 20:26:56 broder: congrats 20:27:41 cody-somerville: oh, laney also gave a +1 for broder :) 20:28:06 ah, you included that 20:28:10 * micahg needs caffeine 20:28:12 #endmeeting