#title #ubuntu-meeting Meeting Meeting started by gilir at 20:03:27 UTC. The full logs are available at http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-12-14-20.03.log.html . == Meeting summary == ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda (david_j_r, 20:04:59) *Review ACTIONS from the last meeting ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Meetings/20111130#Action_items (gilir, 20:07:09) *LXProxy - we need this tested thoroughly and working *User - Devel separate mailing list ''ACTION:'' gilir to request creation of a list on lists.ubuntu.com (gilir, 20:33:26) *A POC for maintaining Lubuntu FAQ pages *non-PAE support future ''ACTION:'' gilir to see if we can keep the 2 kernels on live CD (gilir, 20:44:48) *Quick Update on Q.A. Testing. ''ACTION:'' gilir to update how the release team is informed (gilir, 21:04:29) Meeting ended at 21:04:44 UTC. == Votes == == Action items == * gilir to request creation of a list on lists.ubuntu.com * gilir to see if we can keep the 2 kernels on live CD * gilir to update how the release team is informed == Action items, by person == * gilir ** gilir to request creation of a list on lists.ubuntu.com ** gilir to see if we can keep the 2 kernels on live CD ** gilir to update how the release team is informed == People present (lines said) == * gilir (77) * phillw (46) * wxl (32) * Yorvyk (16) * StephenSmally (14) * michaelrawson (10) * jmarsden|work (9) * rafaellaguna_ (6) * meetingology (6) * Unit193 (4) * david_j_r (2) * gastly (1) * kbhaskar (1) * rafaellaguna (1) == Full Log == 20:03:27 #startmeeting 20:03:27 Meeting started Wed Dec 14 20:03:27 2011 UTC. The chair is gilir. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot. 20:03:27 20:03:27 Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired 20:03:48 hi everyones :) 20:04:15 `° (= back row) 20:04:20 gilir: Hi, hope i'm not late 20:04:24 for the record, the agenda is still at this page : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Meetings/20111130 20:04:26 hi! 20:04:31 hello :) 20:04:34 hi michael 20:04:37 hum no, here : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda 20:04:55 hi stephen. 20:04:59 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda 20:05:33 as usual we will follow the topics on the agenda, if you want to ask a question, just o/ 20:06:36 [TOPIC] Review ACTIONS from the last meeting 20:07:03 gilir: roll call? 20:07:09 [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Meetings/20111130#Action_items 20:07:41 * Unit193 20:07:50 phillw: You waited, so now you don't get a chance to o/ ! 20:08:13 it should be just after the startmeeting ;) 20:08:13 jmarsden|work: no point o/ before #startmeeting :D 20:08:58 ok, I'll improve the introduction next week :p 20:09:25 np :) 20:09:33 So from last meeting, I still need to do a summary about ARM testing 20:09:41 ok i'm alive 20:09:45 still an action for me :p 20:09:58 Hi 20:10:03 hi 20:10:27 About QA meeting, I saw last week that it's more about doing a summary of what it's done for QA in Lubuntu 20:10:51 gilir: I have added that for later. 20:10:57 personnaly, I can't be at the meeting, and I'm not sure we have enough material to do a full report 20:11:28 phillw, ok, let's talk about this later 20:12:04 Yorvyk, I saw a mail about Ubuntu news on the list, do you have more news about it ? 20:13:22 I forwarded the information they asked for to the news mailing list, all the y require is a link to the team meeting minutes/logs 20:13:53 I'll do that each week as sson as the logs are up 20:14:00 cool, not too much work for us :) 20:14:11 Yorvyk, thanks 20:14:18 Yes a nice easy job for a change :0 20:14:39 I'll keep the same format for the wiki pages, should be easier even for them to find the information :) 20:15:01 About the wiki page, any progress on the prototype ? 20:15:35 wxl, ^ 20:17:41 ok let's move on, we can about it at the end of the meeting 20:17:50 [TOPIC] LXProxy - we need this tested thoroughly and working 20:18:14 Yorvyk, you want to start ? 20:18:29 Can we revist this later as I've lost my notes on this at the moment 20:18:43 ok 20:18:54 [TOPIC] User - Devel separate mailing list 20:19:03 I'll introduce this one 20:19:28 sorry i disappeared 20:19:32 so, with lubuntu official, we can request a "real" mailing list on https://lists.ubuntu.com/ 20:19:47 Good idea 20:19:57 so it was suggested i do dpkg --list and put it on the wiki which i could have done but i was unable to create a new wiki page 20:20:02 Seems we're moving onto Ubuntu servers for everything... 20:20:10 I think it's a good idea to move there, instead of our launchpad mailing list 20:20:21 gilir: too true :) 20:20:43 you may also request lubuntu cloaks for members whom are deemed worth them. 20:20:59 phillw, that's another topic :) 20:21:02 ooh a lubuntu cloak i want one ;) 20:21:13 gilir: soz :/ 20:21:40 Also, need to either move people or packages out of the -desktop ppa 20:21:44 one question remain, do we stay with 1 mailing list, or do we split between devel and users ? 20:22:02 gilir: I'd go for splitting it. 20:22:10 I say devel and users. 20:22:14 I'd vote for split 20:22:20 Unit193, we can keep the PPA, I just plan to move the mailing list 20:22:26 meh i'd say otherwise 20:22:52 The problem with splitting them is things tend to get cross posted with a small team. This can be seen on the LXDE lists. 20:22:54 i agree with the logic of organizing but the traffic is so low it's almost pointless, at least at this point. 20:22:56 wxl: you can be member of both 20:23:07 i think split the mailing lists is a good idea 20:23:14 +1 Yorvyk 20:23:15 mee too 20:23:22 (tho i do understand phillw's point) 20:23:46 in general i'm not a big fan of mailing lists anyways so i'm jaded. nevermind me ;) 20:23:56 general support questions and dev's chatting are two different animals. 20:24:07 well, I think like Yorvyk, there is still low traffic, and it's nice to have everyones in the same place 20:24:17 there is often overlap 20:24:26 especially when bugs are unveiled 20:24:39 and often times the devs need user help to figure out the symptoms of what's going on 20:24:40 gilir: will be complicated when traffic increase? 20:24:42 phillw, but sometimes, support request are bug reports ;) 20:24:51 +1 gilir 20:25:04 rafaellaguna_, probably 20:25:24 Suggestion: start with one list for now; decide on a volume (say 50 msgs/day? average for 1 week) at which we will split off a dev list 20:25:34 gilir: as I said, there is nothing to stop devs being on the general mailing list. It just reduces chatter for the devs. But, as always in lubuntu - we do what the devs want / need :) 20:26:17 jmarsden|work, it sounds like a good plan 20:26:19 One list and see how it goes. 20:26:38 Although I agree, I think it needs to be handled in a way that doesn't make ordinary users feel it's "us and them". 20:26:40 phillw, I don't have a strong feeling about this :) 20:27:10 should we vote? ;) 20:27:12 Is it easy to transfer everybody from launchpad to https://lists.ubuntu.com/ or will we have to subscribe to the new list 20:27:15 IMHO the problem is that if a new user use the mailing list, will see a lot of devs threads, and can feel confused (just like "What the hell are they talking about!") 20:27:16 michaelrawson: any 'us' (user) can mail to 'them' (devs) 20:27:32 i don't see a lot of dev threads at all 20:27:43 Yorvyk, subscription, but maybe we can subscribe lubuntu-desktop mailing list for the transition 20:27:50 i see the occassional one.. and i like to see it even if it's not directly relevant to me 20:27:55 wxl: you're right, but i hope they'll increase 20:28:21 StephenSmally: good question-- has the lack of a dev list kept the devs from posting more? 20:28:30 phillw: good point. Although I can see the dev list being obscure, and the lubuntu support list being quite obvious. But I'll shut up. ;) 20:28:43 An increase in traffic could make the list look more useful as it can be a bit quiet at times 20:29:05 gilir: Yorvyk how does xubuntu go about their lists? It's great to learn from others :) 20:29:29 Xubuntu has users and devel 20:29:30 or copy 20:30:57 Like everyvody but us they have a dev and user list 20:31:37 ok, let's start with 1 mailing list, we can always revisit this decision if we need, and make another one later 20:32:03 sensible decision. 20:32:09 could we, as we as we used to do, pop it as a vote on the mailing list for a vote? 20:32:19 -vote 20:32:36 oh boy 20:32:42 i'd rather not personally 20:32:44 phillw, I don't think it's enough important / strategic for a vote :) 20:32:52 okies :) 20:33:00 if anything i would suggest posting a poll somewhere (not on the mailling list) 20:33:09 gilir: #action someone to ask for a list on lists.ubuntu.com -- who will do this? 20:33:09 i don't want 20,000 messages with yays and nays in them 20:33:18 Lest just se if the devs start to make a lot of noise and take it from there. 20:33:23 * gastly sneaks in 20:33:26 [ACTION] gilir to request creation of a list on lists.ubuntu.com 20:33:26 * meetingology gilir to request creation of a list on lists.ubuntu.com 20:33:58 [TOPIC] A POC for maintaining Lubuntu FAQ pages 20:34:30 Hum is Mohi here ? 20:34:41 BRB 20:34:53 o/ 20:35:07 yes michaelrawson ? 20:35:31 what's a POC? 20:35:33 If the FAQ is a Wiki page, does it really need a designated person? everyone with an account can edit it... 20:35:37 gilir: 17:08:40 UTC, which was 3 hours, 27 minutes, and 34 seconds ago. 20:35:45 Point Of Contact 20:35:45 he seems to have vanished? 20:35:47 proof of concept 20:35:47 ? 20:36:04 ok let's move to the next one 20:36:11 I was chatting to him earlier in the day. 20:36:22 [TOPIC] non-PAE support future 20:36:54 ok, so there are news about non-PAE support 20:37:34 for now, the decision for ubuntu is to switch to PAE support by default, but to keep non-PAE available for 12.04 20:38:01 the non-PAE support will probably be removed for 12.10 20:38:13 o/ 20:38:46 an interesting statistics was given during the meeting : about 5 % of users who report bugs on Launchpad don't have PAE support 20:38:46 a surprising twist given linus' caustic opinion on the subject but c'est la vie 20:39:03 Does that mean the PAE kernel will be the one the ISOs boot from 20:39:32 I expect it to be less than 1% 20:39:36 or am i getting confused? 20:39:42 oh well, it's fine 20:39:52 my idea is to keep PAE by default on the live ISO, but using the non-PAE for alternate ISO 20:39:56 gilir: I wonder if that is people posting bugs from inside VMs with PAE emulation disabled?? :) 20:40:04 can't we just use general kernel? (probably there are problems, but i don't know'em) 20:40:18 jmarsden|work, I don't have this information ;) 20:40:26 gilir: that makes sense. 20:40:52 gilir: that sounds like a good compromise 20:41:03 Why not launch the live with non PAE, then install it if the cpu has support? 20:41:16 StephenSmally, it's better to keep what ubuntu uses, especially for such complex piece of software :) 20:41:50 gilir: you could argue that lubuntu was designed for old hardware such as this. 20:41:57 StephenSmally, the code to auto-detect the PAE support exist in the installer 20:42:12 michaelrawson: he did, that's why it is there on the alternate :) 20:42:13 i guess i'm confused about this: before was pae, now non-pae will be available too, but non-pae is going to disappear in the future? i.e. nothing is changing relative to the past? 20:42:14 StephenSmally, it's probably possible, but we will have to keep 2 kernel on the live ISO 20:42:22 mmm 20:42:32 right 20:42:44 but, it's only a problem of space on the CD, which is not so problematic of us 20:42:46 michaelrawson: not really designed for that, but works better on those 20:42:54 phillw: I was referring to his comment to stehpen, but confused now, so never mind me. 20:42:57 of us => for us 20:44:23 StephenSmally, I'll look at this possibility, it's a good idea :) 20:44:35 * wxl is confused. 20:44:35 thanks :-) 20:44:48 [ACTION] gilir to see if we can keep the 2 kernels on live CD 20:44:48 * meetingology gilir to see if we can keep the 2 kernels on live CD 20:45:08 so with this solution, nothing would change for 12.04 :) 20:45:25 * phillw keeps fingers crossed 20:45:47 [TOPIC] Quick Update on Q.A. Testing. 20:45:57 phillw, ^ :) 20:46:18 Hi, the QA team are setting up auto-testing of the more mundane things. 20:46:36 they are also liasing with Mozilla about a new testing scheme 20:46:51 this should take some of the drudgery out of testing RC's 20:47:31 But, in the process, they are after iso testing, concentrating on *Ubuntu* specific included apps. 20:47:53 o/ 20:47:55 as writing testcases for Banshee should get less priority than Rhythmbox, as rhythmbox is default one 20:48:12 StephenSmally: 20:48:30 i can't still get what Q.A. is... 20:48:44 quality assurance 20:48:52 more or less, testing 20:49:02 it's == to testing, to be simple :) 20:49:16 thanks 20:49:20 StephenSmally: Qualtity Assurance, before a milestone release is set upon the public, it is tested heavily against certain criterea 20:49:27 but reports go to the same place... 20:50:23 phillw, I saw that there are many efforts to make automated testing for this cycle 20:50:37 on the subject of them concentrating upon standard ubuntu stuff, they are also going to write up a system for adding non-standard ones. Which I think will be AbiWord & GnuMeric 20:51:21 i didn't request lubuntu specific stuff, mostly because I'm not sure we will have the time to look at them (the logs of the tests) 20:51:25 The updating of existing tests is on-going and they are due to write up how to make a new one in the coming weeks, 20:51:57 gilir: you can action that one to me :) 20:52:18 I'm really interested in how the auto-testing pans out across the whole of QA 20:52:24 does this explain why unity and compiz are installed with lubuntu 12.04? ;) 20:52:55 wxl, I would not know. 20:53:03 phillw, well, the problem it's when it failed, you have to analyze it and find what's going on 20:53:16 I've read that bit :) 20:53:18 wxl, it's bug 20:53:24 So they will do tests for Firefox, OOo, Thunderbird... not Chromium, Abiword, Sylpheed, ... if they automated installer testing (using preseeding?) for a variety of install scenarios, that would be good to have for Lubuntu... 20:53:36 * gilir should fix it today .... 20:53:59 the only other thing of note was the recent mail regarding Chromium failing to build since november last year? 20:54:07 gilir: understand, just didn't know if the root cause had something to do with this automation. 20:54:54 jmarsden|work: it is all pretty much developing week by week. I am keen to keep up to speed with it :) 20:56:13 phillw, what is currently automated ? Only ISO testing or is there some applications already ready for automated testing ? 20:57:12 gilir: jenkins has the list https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Precise%20ISO%20Testing%20Dashboard/view/Daily/ We're hoping to have the guy give us a run through after the holiday period 20:58:00 currently, it is only doing 'core' stuff. 20:58:41 ISO testing is not yet automated, it is the 1st priority for the new system. 20:58:44 phillw: OK... if you need a few test cases to try, installation testing for Lubuntu would be my suggestion :) 20:59:29 jmarsden|work: you will be pleased to know that now I have lubuntu 11.10 on piglet, I have all my VM's back :) 20:59:46 Oh, good, that's progress :) 21:00:12 phillw, I'll be happy if you keep an eye on this QA stuff :) 21:00:16 and my master iso is zsync, so I can chop my iso's over quite quickly 21:00:28 gilir: I'm more than happy to do so. 21:00:55 ok, I think it's time 21:01:07 nobody with emergency topic ? 21:01:08 gilir: it was hinted as to if there was a chance of you re-starting your weekly emails to the lubuntu tam? 21:01:15 nope just fix that bug gilir :D 21:01:54 phillw, which email ? the one to the release team ? 21:02:27 you used to send one to the lubuntu ML. We had to have stuff in by Thursday for you to include it on the Friday email? 21:03:24 I still make an update on Friday for the release team, you can still send me topics to add before it 21:03:56 oops, we are out of time. Can I pm you, please? 21:04:04 the organisation of the release team meeting changed, I'll do an email to the team about this 21:04:29 [ACTION] gilir to update how the release team is informed 21:04:29 * meetingology gilir to update how the release team is informed 21:04:44 #endmeeting Generated by MeetBot 0.1.5 (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot)