#title #ubuntu-meeting Meeting Meeting started by geser at 19:05:16 UTC. The full logs are available at http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-12-05-19.05.log.html . == Meeting summary == *Review of previous action items *MOTU application: Julian Taylor ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JulianTaylor/MOTUApplication (geser, 19:16:47) *Core Dev application: Micah Gersten ''LINK:'' https://wiki.ubuntu.com/micahg/CoreDevApplication (geser, 19:41:19) Meeting ended at 20:14:04 UTC. == Votes == * Should Julian Taylor become a MOTU? For: 5 Against: 0 Abstained: 0 * Should Micah Gersten become an Ubuntu Core-Dev? For: 4 Against: 0 Abstained: 0 == Action items == * (none) == People present (lines said) == * geser (44) * stgraber (34) * micahg (32) * tumbleweed (23) * meetingology (22) * jtaylor (16) * jbicha (11) * bdrung (3) * cody-somerville (1) == Full Log == 19:05:16 #startmeeting 19:05:17 Meeting started Mon Dec 5 19:05:16 2011 UTC. The chair is geser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot. 19:05:17 19:05:17 Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired 19:05:34 Welcome to the Developer Membership Board meeting 19:06:17 #topic Review of previous action items 19:07:01 * Laney to document package set application process 19:07:07 what's the status of this? 19:07:17 looks done 19:07:38 geser: Laney isn't around ATM, but looks does 19:07:57 ok 19:08:17 * micahg to ping all packageset teams to get a description we can use for future changes 19:08:37 geser: not done yet, will try to have that finished before the next meeting 19:09:08 ok, is there a wiki page documentating the ones you got already a response? 19:09:22 I haven't sent out the initial mails yet :( 19:09:39 ok 19:09:59 * tumbleweed to create private DMB channel for realtime use during meetings 19:10:06 this is done 19:10:37 it's currently invite-only, so not useful for people with questions 19:10:44 (unless they get invited) 19:11:07 * jbicha to create a list of packages from the .modules files for the desktop-extra package set 19:11:33 did we get that list? (I haven't checked my mails today yet) 19:11:36 nope 19:11:38 and no sign of him 19:11:59 so the "desktop-extra" package set is on hold too, right? 19:12:00 oh, hang on, he's online again 19:12:31 I think I whoised him on the wrong network before... 19:13:12 ...anyway, not here now... 19:13:52 * bdrung waves. 19:14:09 in which timezone does he live? is it a time zone problem? 19:14:45 launchpad says US eastern 19:15:02 so both timezones shouldn't be too bad if he can connect from work 19:15:56 let's hope we get a list for the next meeting (to get this finally done) 19:16:35 #topic MOTU application: Julian Taylor 19:16:47 #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JulianTaylor/MOTUApplication 19:16:54 yeah, I'm not against discussing it on the mailing-list so we don't need jbicha to be at the meeting. If we have the list and everything before, we can probably just vote on it 19:16:55 jtaylor: your stage :) 19:17:10 I don't think the package set was controversial or anything, we really just needed the list :) 19:17:57 hi, most of you have probably already seen me hanging around in the various ubuntu irc channels 19:18:36 I have now been involved in ubuntu and debian for almost a year in various areas, packaging, bug triaging, education 19:19:07 I was recently involved in a few transitions and tasks in ubuntu, namely as-needed fixing, dh_python2 transition and mono 2.10 transition 19:19:30 I now want to apply for motu membership to relieve the sponsors from some work :) 19:20:19 'bout time :) 19:20:24 cool, so a few questions based on recent events :) are you subscribed to ubuntu-devel-announce and read it usually within 24 hours of an e-mail getting on there? :) 19:20:54 yes I'm subscribed to -announce and -motu and usually read it at least once a day 19:21:04 good 19:21:07 also -ubuntu-devel 19:21:20 (+ main debian lists) 19:21:31 now we're on alpha-2 release week and you have some universe packages to upload, what do you check and what do you do? 19:22:32 before alpha the archive is a soft freeze to not distrupt the iso building 19:22:45 but so far I know that should only affect main 19:23:07 nope, it doesn't, that's the tricky part :) 19:23:15 s/main/packages on CDs/ 19:23:26 s/CDs/images/ 19:23:34 and some flavours build from universe 19:23:58 * tumbleweed just wrote a tool to check that, I'd love reviews of it :) 19:24:07 basically anything that's seeded (be it main or universe) and that's not exclusively in the SUPPORTED seed 19:24:20 tumbleweed: I'd love to :) 19:24:31 tumbleweed: awesome! 19:25:04 [OT]: lp:~stefanor/ubuntu-dev-tools/on-images-876554 19:25:08 back to regular programming... 19:25:14 ah ok, should I be accepted I'll of course check up with expericend members before every action I do 19:25:31 jtaylor: so yeah, not touching anything on the ISO during a release week without poking the release team about it is the right answer, just be careful as we have quite a few of them in universe now 19:26:22 jtaylor: no worry, I've to remember myself about this too when it's time for a soft freeze 19:27:42 jtaylor: any ideas for dealing with bugs that remain unfixed forever? I suspect you doing your best to fix them all would lead to burnout rather than a real improvement... :/ 19:28:07 tumbleweed: invent cloning :) 19:28:42 yeah, we could use more jtaylors 19:28:53 I currently follow the procedure that when someone asks directly via email or irc about an annoying I try to get it fixed or at least on the right track 19:29:56 sure, I do that too. But then we just fix the issues raised by people who know ubuntu-developers... 19:30:27 jtaylor: are you aware of how to get the relevant changelog entries into a .changes file and verify they're in there? 19:32:21 hm dpkg-genchanges creates the changes files, and you can read them with a text editor 19:33:15 jtaylor: right, but how do you make sure that the relevant entries are in there? default is just the last entry 19:34:21 I don't know :/ 19:34:58 micahg: you mean, like when merging from Debian? 19:35:03 jtaylor: if you pass -v to dpkg-buildpackage (or debuild) with the last version uploaded, you'll get all the entries after that version 19:35:11 stgraber: yes 19:36:14 ah it passes that to dpkg-genchanges 19:36:37 not scanned the manpage fast enough ;) 19:36:57 jtaylor: right :) 19:37:20 any other questions? 19:38:22 * stgraber is ready to vote 19:39:18 * micahg is ready 19:39:20 #vote Should Julian Taylor become a MOTU? 19:39:20 Please vote on: Should Julian Taylor become a MOTU? 19:39:20 Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) 19:39:44 +1 [ I endorsed him ] 19:39:44 +1 [ I endorsed him ] received from tumbleweed 19:39:49 +1 19:39:49 +1 received from geser 19:39:51 +1 19:39:51 +1 received from stgraber 19:39:54 +1 19:39:54 +1 received from bdrung 19:39:57 +1 good packaging work, good interaction w/peers and community in general 19:39:57 +1 good packaging work, good interaction w/peers and community in general received from micahg 19:40:14 #endvote 19:40:14 Voting ended on: Should Julian Taylor become a MOTU? 19:40:14 Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0 19:40:14 Motion carried 19:40:18 that was easy 19:40:25 jtaylor: congratulations 19:40:32 jtaylor: congratulations 19:40:41 thanks :) 19:40:48 congrats! 19:41:09 #topic Core Dev application: Micah Gersten 19:41:19 #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/micahg/CoreDevApplication 19:41:22 * micahg moves to the other side of the table 19:41:23 micahg: your stage 19:41:31 ah yeah, right, he isn't a core dev :) 19:42:16 HI, I've been an Ubuntu developer for about 18 months now, working on various things, FTBFS, RC Bugs, Xubuntu, Mozilla stack 19:43:31 win 40 19:43:35 doh :) 19:43:49 and you helped keep 19:43:59 Chromium going! 19:44:10 I enjoy solving problems (getting pkg-config and cmake to play nice was fun) 19:44:16 micahg: what's the biggest difference between MOTU and core-dev in your eyes? 19:47:18 geser: Both are generalists, core-dev I believe is expected to know more about the possible impact of changes that updating a package can have on the rest of the archive, also be a driver of transitions and other release related activities (with consultation with the release team of course) 19:48:53 based on the comments in your application, I guess there is no need to ask you questions about policies :) 19:48:55 A core-dev is also a leader that tries to help other developers DTRT or fix other issues 19:49:30 geser: I still have plenty to learn :) 19:49:36 micahg: do you see any solutions to the latest-crack-in-PPAs issue you raise? 19:49:50 micahg: so are you subscribed and reading -announce? :P 19:50:48 tumbleweed: well, the -backports team seems to have new life thanks to you and broder, I recently became a member of that team as well, I think we can leverage -backports for some of those packages, as for others, I don't think I have an answer for it ATM 19:51:03 * tumbleweed isn't even part of the team, but shh 19:51:05 stgraber: yes, I post there sometimes as well :) 19:51:18 tumbleweed: you helped make tools :) 19:52:31 any other questions? 19:52:34 * tumbleweed is done 19:52:37 nope 19:53:13 #vote Should Micah Gersten become an Ubuntu Core-Dev? 19:53:13 Please vote on: Should Micah Gersten become an Ubuntu Core-Dev? 19:53:13 Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) 19:53:18 +1 19:53:18 +1 received from geser 19:53:20 +1 19:53:20 +1 received from bdrung 19:53:20 +1 19:53:20 +1 received from stgraber 19:53:22 +1 19:53:22 +1 received from tumbleweed 19:53:35 #endvote 19:53:35 Voting ended on: Should Micah Gersten become an Ubuntu Core-Dev? 19:53:35 Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0 19:53:35 Motion carried 19:54:00 I'm honored, thank you :) 19:55:15 My apologies for being late again, do we have enough time left in the meeting? 19:55:40 as jbichs is now here, let's get back to: * jbicha to create a list of packages from the .modules files for the desktop-extra package set 19:55:55 jbicha: I see you just mailed us 19:57:56 looks good, I just wouldn't move vinagre for now until it's been officially dropped 19:58:32 stgraber: yes, that makes sense 19:58:43 I'm guessing all the -sharp moving from -desktop and core are because of the drop of tomboy, gbrainy and banshee? 19:59:01 +1 19:59:10 I'm not comfortable with mono in there 19:59:59 micahg: why not? 20:00:25 micahg: I tend to agree with you, especially as we'll likely keep it in main as a common build-dep for a few packages in main 20:00:26 jbicha: it's an entirely different system of packages 20:00:32 micahg: I'm quite surprised it's not currently in core 20:01:08 jbicha: I'm fine with GTK/GLIB based apps and libraries 20:01:09 stgraber: maybe it's still in core? 20:02:00 jbicha: could be, I just assumed that if he wasn't in your list of stuff to drop from core it's because it currently isn't 20:02:23 stgraber: I think since Kubuntu doesn't use it maybe 20:02:27 micahg: you're proposing that the set description say "except Mono" ? 20:02:33 yeah, it's in core currently 20:03:06 and also in cli-mono 20:03:27 and some bits are in ubuntu-desktop 20:03:47 jbicha: no, I'd like it limited to GTK based apps/libraries, not cores of other stacks 20:04:01 * micahg remembers pulseaudio on the original list but not in this update 20:05:35 do you want to discuss this now or per mail till the next meeting and/or IRC with #ubuntu-desktop? 20:05:48 micahg: ok, are you saying no to mono, but banshee for instance would still be ok? 20:06:17 banshee would be fine as it's part of the gnome project and not in the default install 20:06:25 mono is a programming language that's not part of the gnome project 20:06:30 jbicha: yeah, since that's a GTK based app, I think that's fine + what stgraber said 20:06:31 ah ok, I don't have a problem with that then 20:06:54 I just misunderstand :) 20:06:59 in most cases I'm fine pulling some of the dependencies in the package sets, but pulling a whole language seems a bit too much :) 20:07:18 yeah, I'd like to limit it to things that are developed as part of the GNOME project and not their core dependencies (pulseaudio, mono) 20:08:52 are you ready to vote on the package set? or on the next meeting? 20:09:21 I'd rather have a new package list. I don't think it's blocking a lot of work at the moment and I'd rather have it done properly the first time around 20:10:01 maybe vote on the mailing list? 20:10:46 +1, I'd like a definition that limits this to GNOME developed apps as well (I think any external dependencies could be posed as an exception if it's worth adding) 20:12:25 ok, so next meeting it is 20:12:43 any other business? 20:13:13 any volunteers for chair? 20:13:46 geser: next one in alphabetical order, or just re-assign to cody :) 20:14:00 ok 20:14:04 #endmeeting Generated by MeetBot 0.1.5 (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot)