17:01:12 #startmeeting Ubuntu Studio development monthly 17:01:12 Meeting started Sun Sep 4 17:01:12 2011 UTC. The chair is astraljava. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot. 17:01:12 17:01:12 Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired 17:01:21 #chair astraljava 17:01:21 Current chairs: astraljava 17:01:30 Welcome everyone! 17:01:54 For starters, I'd like to say that I'm excited to see some new activity in this project. 17:02:00 o/ 17:02:17 Welcome all the new contributors, whole-heartedly! 17:02:26 Not forgetting the old ones, of course. :) 17:02:55 Okay, as you probably already recall now, you can find the agenda and all other related information at: 17:03:04 #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2011September4 17:03:29 But here's the agenda for today, anyway: 17:03:44 Call Meeting to Order 17:03:44 Old Business 17:03:44 website udpate - new website is impractical right now, ScottL will see about updating current one 17:03:47 thanks everyone involved in Beta1 testing, especially astraljava 17:03:49 New Business 17:03:52 XFCE migration - how is it going? 17:03:54 lightdm - is it working now with background? 17:03:57 new audience - musicians moving to and unfamiliar with Linux? 17:03:59 Beta2 testing is coming 17:04:02 new meeting schedule for twice a month (in contrast to once a month) for oneiric+1 ? 17:04:05 Goals for Oneiric+1 17:04:07 live dvd 17:04:10 lowlatency kernel 17:04:12 new UI or theme for xfce 17:04:15 new documentation 17:04:17 links/documentation on desktop/menu for new users? 17:04:20 how can we make is more simple, clean, easy for users? 17:04:22 Team structure / Strategy document 17:04:25 Any Other Business (all/anyone) 17:04:28 Next Meeting Time/Location 17:04:30 Next Meeting Chair 17:04:33 I think we're done with the first, so let's hit it on. 17:04:35 #topic Old Business 17:04:38 Hmm... did the bot die on me? 17:04:47 Oh good, there it is. 17:05:17 #subtopic website update 17:05:29 so, thats bagged for a while? 17:05:47 i was assuming the work load might be similar to fix the current one, or just drop in the new one 17:05:49 sorry, i'm a dork and i'm slow and stupid 17:05:52 scott-upstairs: Would you like to go on that one? 17:05:59 No worries, we knew. :D 17:06:02 the new one seemed so ready to go last time i looked 17:06:04 astraljava, sorry, i missed the topic 17:06:10 website? 17:06:11 website update 17:06:17 and my rationale was, it cant be *more* broken than what we have 17:06:53 suggestion is to use the "new" one that jorge made? 17:07:03 let me play with the old one first and test something 17:07:14 if its crap i'll see if i can get the new one over 17:07:22 is there a screenshot of the new proposal? 17:07:31 but i'm no expert with website and especially with part of the website in launchpad 17:07:36 falktx, hold one 17:07:38 one 17:07:39 on 17:07:41 i mean, i dont think we should waste time doing anything to the old one now 17:07:47 edubuntu guys seem to be happy with their blog-like website - you might want to try it 17:07:52 even if that means sitting on it for a bit 17:07:53 http://www.myhaiku.org/ falktx 17:08:13 shnatsel|busy: i like the blog like style 17:08:25 scott-upstairs: looks cool! 17:08:27 shnatsel|busy, we had consideredd various other things, like hosting our own, using wordpress, etc 17:08:27 but, we are already somewhat commited to this idea 17:08:55 but in terms of maintence we felt that staying with current hosting and drupal was the way to go 17:09:00 i'll see what i can do 17:09:09 yeah... thats true 17:09:25 scott-upstairs: let us know if we can do anything 17:09:37 i can put a drupal box online here, but i dont think thats the issue 17:09:45 moving the database over is a drag right? 17:10:04 holstein, the database will basically not really be needed i think because the new website doesn't really have any content 17:10:09 i think 17:10:22 COOL 17:10:24 scott-upstairs: I think too, this seems like pure html 17:10:29 that would be easier for us then 17:10:39 but my concern is the mechanics of making new pages....the old site has many pages but the new one doesn't 17:10:42 * falktx loves the new website proposal 17:10:45 scott-upstairs: good 17:10:47 i want to test on the old one and see if we can add new pages 17:10:53 i dont think we need a bunch of pages 17:10:54 without having to edit launchpad code 17:10:59 links to wikis 17:11:15 a one page clean site would be great right now 17:11:18 holstein: wikis suck. make them WISYWIG or use Google Docs. 17:11:21 i just want to know how to manipulate things before we drop one that kinda works and has content for one that has two pages and no content 17:11:23 scott-upstairs: I know a way around this, as I used it before 17:11:41 falktx, for which? 17:11:56 scott-upstairs: we create a simple xml file containing the news, and a simple php function will auto-read-and-make pages from it (news only) 17:11:59 shnatsel|busy, how would we make them WISYWIG? 17:12:07 falktx, okay 17:12:16 scott-upstairs: AFAIK MoinMoin has a plugin for that 17:12:17 scott-upstairs: I've done it before, it's easy for me 17:12:25 shnatsel|busy: im talking about the current ubuntu wikis 17:12:28 they are what we got 17:12:39 anything we have local is a duplication of efforts 17:12:48 and would be confusing (in my opinion) 17:12:55 shnatsel|busy, are you saying we try to pull content from the wiki into the website and make is pretty then? 17:12:56 holstein: for user-editable content they totally suck. 17:13:04 shnatsel|busy: sure, but that ubuntu-wide 17:13:06 thast* 17:13:10 holstein: is it possible to put the wiki into an iframe? 17:13:11 its not something we can change now 17:13:11 * scott-upstairs thinks that edubuntu is doing that already 17:13:25 falktx, what is an iframe? 17:13:28 holstein: artwork team tried to work that around 17:13:48 scott-upstairs: a html frame (part of the site), rendered as the site, but that actually comes from another place 17:13:49 im sure we can, but we have to be sure the new user knows whats what 17:13:56 and why they are being redirected 17:14:02 then, we have to maintain both... 17:14:03 falktx, yes, i would like to do this! 17:14:06 holstein: they failed because Canonical doesn't care about community artwork team 17:14:12 shnatsel|busy: :/ 17:14:13 as holstein said, i don't want to duplicate effort 17:14:17 yup 17:14:20 we *cant* do that now 17:14:38 we dont have the resources to waste effort 17:14:46 we have wikis, and forums 17:14:59 it would be work to leave them, and implement something on our own 17:14:59 okay so that plan is i will see what i can do to move the new site, then work with falktx to see about using the iframe bit to display existing wiki information in the website 17:15:06 not that we cant do that at some point 17:15:06 s/that/the 17:15:13 holstein, ^^^ 17:15:17 scott-upstairs: i like that 17:15:26 even if its just links to the current stuff 17:15:29 thats fine with me 17:15:29 Okay, sounds good. Perhaps we should move on to other things now? 17:15:38 please 17:15:39 wait a bit 17:15:45 oh... :) 17:15:54 falktx: Go ahead. 17:15:54 we need to make sure the ubuntu wiki supports this 17:16:06 some site do, others don't 17:16:08 falktx, edubuntu is doing this already some how 17:16:17 scott-upstairs: website? 17:16:20 aye 17:16:30 please post an example link 17:16:47 https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuStudio 17:17:01 this also is apparently better at SEO as well 17:17:48 i haven't look at the source so i'm not sure, but they have all Ubuntu Studio edits too quickly (IMO) for copying of vast tracts of text to their servers 17:17:56 as long as it doesnt add an edit point, and we can handle the maintanence, im all for it 17:18:19 looks cool indeed 17:18:21 well, I don't think this is really easy stuff 17:18:33 we should contact them, they will surely help though 17:19:04 REALLY good example, our agenda for today: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2011September4 17:19:10 screenshots.ubuntu.com is just screenshots.debian.com, I'm pretty sure one can add a custom CSS to that system 17:19:22 scott-upstairs: I guess the new website would have a "wiki" tab that pushes the US wiki, right? 17:19:33 falktx, i don't really know 17:19:45 all links from edubuntu point to the real site 17:19:59 but let's discuss this after we get the new website up, that will take long enough already 17:20:02 ah, they are probably accessing the database and creating his own pages 17:20:21 #action scott-upstairs to look into moving the new site, and work with falktx re: using iframes for wiki access 17:20:21 * meetingology scott-upstairs to look into moving the new site, and work with falktx re: using iframes for wiki access 17:20:25 scott-upstairs: that is probably a custom mediawiki theme, or some other wiki engine 17:20:27 w00t 17:20:45 falktx: MoinMoin 17:20:52 ah, ok 17:21:02 http://moinmo.in 17:21:05 shnatsel|busy: we'll just need a custom theme to match the new website 17:21:07 Okay, just a side-note, could we finish our speaks with double-dots (..), so the chair will know we're done with the topic? 17:21:34 I mean, when you're done with your soap-box for the time, add that on an otherwise empty line. 17:21:45 okay 17:21:45 .. 17:21:50 .. 17:21:55 all good now I think 17:21:58 next please 17:22:00 Thanks, it will make the chair's life easier in the future, as we're growing now. 17:22:01 ;) 17:22:14 #subtopic Beta1 testing 17:22:30 Thanks for everyone involved! We got a (not-so) beautiful release for it. 17:22:44 #topic New Business 17:22:56 #subtopic XFCE migration 17:23:13 We have finally gotted rid of unity \m/ 17:23:19 :) 17:23:21 astraljava: were the fixed-menu pushed to the repos? 17:23:35 On the otherhand, our sessions still look like crap. 17:23:40 hehe 17:23:41 yay, congratulations astraljava for your efforts to accomplish this 17:23:46 hey, its a work in progress 17:23:47 Which leads to falktx's question, no it is not. 17:23:59 I'll try to get it done tonight. 17:24:01 * scott-upstairs was going to download a dialy image to test lightdm and menu 17:24:05 Weekend didn't really go as planned. 17:24:17 i'll wait a few more days then, astraljava please let me know when it is pushed so i can test 17:24:29 scott-upstairs: Will do. 17:24:47 they should appear in the oneiric-changes mailiing list 17:25:16 .. 17:25:19 We will need to look at how our session integrates with XFCE desktop. 17:25:44 I can look into this too, but are there others who could assist (or better yet, take over?) 17:26:01 didirock helped me last time with 'ubuntu-classic' (i.e. gnome-panel) vs. 'ubuntu' (i.e. unity) 17:26:07 I never got a working ISO install, so I don't know how it looks. can someone explain in detail what is the issue? 17:26:27 falktx, when you select your user name it defaults to some other session that xfce 17:26:31 astraljava: it would be nice to get the xubuntu guy help 17:26:35 falktx: http://astraljava.kapsi.fi/(X)ubuntu_studio_cropped.png 17:26:36 you have to select xfce for it to work 17:26:38 i could do that prolly 17:26:45 i have no idea how to do it on my own 17:26:51 uh, ugly 17:26:54 That's how it looks like now. There are no studio icons, no desktop wallpaper etc. 17:26:59 but if someone will help, i'll try and organize it 17:27:10 I think I can help 17:27:19 Didrocks helped me with that already 17:27:21 astraljava: can't we just copy xubuntu-default-settings there? 17:27:26 holstein: shnatsel|busy: Excellent! Can we assign this task to you? 17:27:31 sure 17:27:35 astraljava, that link was for the menu 17:27:47 shnatsel|busy: just let me know what i can do... and take it easy on me :) 17:27:49 astraljava: Switch default X session? OK, assign me to the bug. 17:27:54 scott-upstairs: Sure, but you can see that none of the standard icons aren't replaced by ours. 17:28:10 shnatsel|busy: The thing is, we only have XFCE session in the greeter. 17:28:13 oh, i thought you meant that for the xfce session 17:28:18 So none of our stuff will be loaded. 17:28:36 astraljava: you have some custom stuff beyound XFCE? 17:29:22 shnatsel|busy: Yes, our theming should have stuff that replaces the standard stuff. But we can discuss about that on our own channel after the meeting. 17:29:29 astraljava: I've worked only with gnome-session and switching sessions in LightDM, I've never configured xfce4-session 17:29:55 oh, and switching them in GDM too, obviously... 17:30:01 shnatsel|busy: Okay, but are you willing to look into that? 17:30:24 falktx: Good question, one that I don't have an answer to at this moment. 17:30:33 astraljava: OK, I'll try 17:30:48 shnatsel|busy, that would be awesome 17:30:58 shnatsel|busy: Let's just be vocal about it on the channel, so others can chime in if you get stuck. 17:31:03 cory should have _something_ done, perhaps we should email him ? 17:31:16 scott-upstairs: about XFCE? 17:31:19 aye! 17:31:27 i think he wanted to kill it right? 17:31:34 #action holstein and shnatsel|busy to look into utilizing studio icons etc. on desktop session. 17:31:34 * meetingology holstein and shnatsel|busy to look into utilizing studio icons etc. on desktop session. 17:31:36 if cory has something started no point in shnatsel|busy having to rediscover anything 17:31:48 wont hurt to ask \ 17:31:55 i'll send him an email then 17:31:56 scott-upstairs: Good point, so can you ask him? 17:31:56 I think xfce is just not using the US theme 17:32:08 if it uses the theme, the icons will look good, i guess 17:32:17 #action scott-upstairs to ask Cory about any pending work on theming the session 17:32:17 * meetingology scott-upstairs to ask Cory about any pending work on theming the session 17:32:22 he said something about it's easy because xfce uses an XML file 17:33:01 ..'s ? 17:33:01 custom icon themes in XFCE?! do they have any link to sessions at all?! 17:33:51 hm, confused 17:34:09 I was talking about the screenshot, were the icons are not right 17:34:15 shnatsel|busy: I believe that's what should get done while you select a session in the lightdm greeter. 17:34:29 .. 17:34:51 ...or rather, after you've selected it, and logged in. 17:35:05 But again, we can discuss the technicals on our channel afterwards. 17:35:07 .. 17:35:28 astraljava: in GNOME it's just a default setting. It's not dependent on sessions (however sessions could change that before Natty) 17:36:02 I know this for sure, xfce uses some different icon names than gnome, so a little symlinks will be needed in the US icon theme 17:36:27 which would be easy? 17:36:29 right? 17:36:40 and that would give us our current icons in XFCE? 17:36:42 that would be nice 17:36:43 astraljava: I've ported Humanity to LibreOffice. No more icon porting for me. 17:36:46 yes 17:37:00 i think a good goal would be to change as little as possible 17:37:05 holstein: I did that for kxstudio kde-gnome compatibility 17:37:10 when folks fire it up, it looks like gnome2-ish 17:37:15 yep 17:37:22 holstein: that is the point I guess 17:37:31 falktx: for now at least 17:37:34 have the interface looking like in previous releases 17:37:39 the least amount of change 17:37:55 i like the look/feel anyways 17:38:01 and i think others do too 17:38:15 shnatsel|busy: Noted, thanks. 17:38:19 let's discuss this at length later 17:38:21 .. 17:38:23 I personally think that US should not invent its own themes; I'm a strong believer in division of labor 17:38:32 So let icon designers do the icon set 17:38:43 +1 17:38:44 and we should make the distro, not icon sets 17:38:46 sure 17:38:51 i can identify with that 17:39:00 package and integrate apps, etc 17:39:22 need some ".." 17:39:23 do like Ubuntu did - just use elementaty icons with minimal mods 17:39:24 's 17:39:29 faenza ftw! 17:39:57 Maybe we shall add theming and branding for discussion in later meetings, then, as this seems to have some controversy in opinions. 17:39:58 falktx: fancy but not intuitive and the whole experience breaks when you meet an icon that's not from faenza 17:40:01 .. 17:40:06 astraljava++ 17:40:29 i hope we can speed things up because i will need to be going rather soon 17:40:37 we're already +40 minutes 17:40:39 #subtopic lightdm 17:40:53 eek, 40 mins 17:40:55 Like mentioned already, no it is not using the new background yet. 17:40:55 anyone testing the lightdm background fix falktx did? 17:41:08 oh, is that what you need to push astraljava as well? 17:41:08 #action astraljava to drop in the background for lightdm greeter 17:41:08 * meetingology astraljava to drop in the background for lightdm greeter 17:41:15 .. 17:41:21 let me know when as with the menu astraljava , i'll test 17:41:21 .. 17:41:32 #subtopic new audience 17:41:46 This is a huge one, and as we're pressed on time, shall we move onwards? 17:41:59 well, we could just say what it is 17:42:10 i think we have all agreed right? 17:42:14 new users? 17:42:19 new users! 17:42:20 maybe not... 17:42:27 let's say that the idea is to support musicians who are new to linux 17:42:31 I agree it's new users 17:42:39 but hold comments until a later meeting 17:42:44 yup, new users to linux/audio 17:42:47 .. 17:42:50 we need to nail this down though 17:42:53 and i think that does 17:43:11 seems like so many decisions hinge on this target audience 17:43:21 keepint to the musician new to linux is fine 17:43:24 Right, so let's discuss that on October's meeting, so that we get it right for the next cycle. 17:43:26 that gives us a goal 17:43:26 Artists too! 17:43:37 shnatsel|busy, aye! good point 17:43:38 And photographers 17:43:52 i can go there too 17:44:07 .. 17:44:20 #action move new audience to October's meeting 17:44:20 * meetingology move new audience to October's meeting 17:44:31 #subtopic Beta2 is coming 17:44:46 subscribing to the iso testing is how to help with that right? 17:44:54 The testing will happen on around 20th to 22nd of September. 17:44:59 holstein: That is correct. 17:45:00 sept 22 17:45:04 cool.. 17:45:09 oh, sorry, you already got it :) 17:45:24 Everyone is encouraged to do that, so please, if you can spare time for it, that'd would rock! \m/ 17:45:29 http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ 17:45:33 wow, ~2 weeks from beta to final release? 17:45:33 hopefully we will not have so many respins this time as well 17:45:44 falktx, that's the way the schedule fell this cycle :( 17:45:56 :( 17:46:09 For those un-aware of the release schedule, check: 17:46:10 i think we can avoid FFe's if we file bugs against things like lightdm or the menu to fix things also 17:46:14 #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricReleaseSchedule 17:46:48 which technically wouldn't need a FFe or other anyway 17:46:52 .. 17:46:58 scott-upstairs: FFes are not too big of a problem for us, when most of the changes we do only affect us. 17:47:04 .. 17:47:17 Anything else for New Business? 17:47:24 there was something 17:47:28 Oh sorry. 17:47:32 xsane to whatever is used now 17:47:37 #subtopic new meeting schedule 17:47:45 simplescan? 17:47:51 are we on simplescan? 17:47:56 yes 17:47:57 this is non-important i think 17:47:59 simplescan 17:48:03 but it came up on the mailing list 17:48:08 Ubuntu changed 3 releases ago 17:48:16 doo eet! 17:48:19 i think when we have time, switching to simplescan too would be a good idea 17:48:21 We can do the change. It's not a big problem, I think. 17:48:25 ewww, yeah we should probably do likewise 17:48:29 astraljava: if its easy 17:48:36 it's easy 17:48:47 #action astraljava to look into replacing xsane with simplescan 17:48:47 * meetingology astraljava to look into replacing xsane with simplescan 17:48:48 remove line from seed, add line to seed 17:48:48 just changing the seed and getting luke to update the metas 17:48:55 i cant find that email... there were a few more suggestions 17:49:02 holstein: yep, from me 17:49:03 Yep, we'll just have to check the dependencies. 17:49:05 .. 17:49:05 that was the easiest, and most relavant though 17:49:12 shnatsel|busy: COOL 17:49:13 holstein: "last call for oneiric seeds" thread 17:49:18 what were the others? 17:49:31 2 others? 17:49:35 darktable 17:49:44 holstein: Darktable, photo seed, something else 17:49:53 MyPaint 17:50:01 maybe thats whats up... i have no experience with those 17:50:09 holstein, shnatsel|busy, can you figure out what you want and talk to astraljava after the meeting about including them? 17:50:17 sure 17:50:17 .. 17:50:21 Thanks! 17:50:25 no problem :) 17:50:26 I also propose to replace nautilus-image-converter with Phatch: photobatch.stani.be 17:50:26 http://packages.ubuntu.com/oneiric/phatch 17:50:26 That Nautilus extension is useless because Ubuntu Studio has switched to Thunar anyway, and Phatch is a praised and useful app. 17:50:41 scott-upstairs: np 17:50:43 Now, I mentioned that we should start having meetings more often for the next cycle. 17:50:54 astraljava: sure 17:50:57 Maybe every week is a little too much. 17:51:00 twice a month? 17:51:00 But bi-weekly? 17:51:05 astraljava: I suggest weekly 17:51:10 maybe the 1st and 3rd sundays? 17:51:13 +1 more meetings 17:51:26 shnatsel|busy: If we can commit to that, then I'm all for it. 17:51:29 if we need more, we can go weekly 17:51:30 twice a month sounds cool to me 17:51:31 Shall we vote on that? 17:51:33 can we start with two meetings a month (bi-monthly) and see how it goes? 17:51:41 shnatsel|busy: cool? 17:51:44 scott-upstairs: I'm with you 17:51:46 same time of day as this? 17:51:56 scott-upstairs++ 17:51:58 craigs63: i can check the schedule here, but thats a good point 17:51:58 craigs63: That can be adjusted. 17:52:08 maybe a different time for the 2nd meeting 17:52:14 for those who cant make this meeting 17:52:19 We can always agree on the next one in a current meeting. 17:52:36 Yeah, holstein's got the point. 17:53:15 So, we agree on bi-weekly meetings, the first one to be scheduled in October's meeting. 17:53:23 i like that 17:53:27 #action bi-weekly meetings, the first one to be scheduled in October's meeting. 17:53:27 * meetingology bi-weekly meetings, the first one to be scheduled in October's meeting. 17:53:36 maybe email the mailing list to give available times for everyoen? 17:53:37 .. 17:53:40 i can check availablility here, and try and field some times 17:54:04 scott-upstairs: Absolutely, chair will have to be more active than the (presently lacking) one has been, sorry. :-/ 17:54:08 Well, bi-weekly means not necessarily falling on the 1st Sunday. 17:54:16 Yep, that's the point. 17:54:20 yeah, we can rotate the chair 17:54:35 i dont mind doing stuff like that too, since i cant do much other stuff 17:54:35 Like for instance Xubuntu-devel has the other on Sundays, and the other on Mondays. 17:55:10 astraljava: i think you're doing great :) 17:55:12 I think we agreed on rotating the chair just for motivational purposes, but that can be discussed later. 17:55:18 .. 17:55:41 #topic Goals for Oneiric + 1 17:55:48 #subtopic live dvd 17:55:52 i think we table that til later 17:55:59 til after oneiric 17:56:03 table live dvd? 17:56:11 live DVD is not for now right? 17:56:18 would that simplifiy our situation at all? 17:56:21 can we talk if this is the direction we want to go for oneiric+1? 17:56:22 So far it seems that we have agreed to switch to having a live dvd instead of the alternate install 17:56:22 or make it worse? 17:56:38 holstein: we gotta test it during Oneiric at least, and start it now - or we'll never do it 17:56:43 Well, the topic says "Oneiric + 1" 17:56:49 i think if making a live DVD is easier for us for the oneiric release, lets do it 17:56:57 otherwise, i dont want to 'rock the boat' 17:57:01 holstein, not for oneiric, never will happen 17:57:08 scott-upstairs: yeah? 17:57:10 hmmm 17:57:22 We don't have time for official live dvd, for sure. 17:57:23 i mean... i think its the way to go 17:57:30 but can we agree as a group that we want to do a live dvd for oneiric+1? 17:57:32 But if someone wants to do that as a hobby, by all means. 17:57:39 scott-upstairs: yeah 17:57:45 i want that for 12.04 17:57:45 +1 from me 17:57:55 0 17:58:02 not now, unless it drastically simplifies the process 17:58:15 astraljava: we can talk about it for sure 17:58:19 holstein: The talk is on the release _after_ Oneiric. 17:58:22 i can see either wat 17:58:24 way* 17:58:39 but, i think if the new user is the target, the alternate installer is a drag 17:58:42 Please keep that in mind. 17:58:51 Okay, so far we're +2. Any other votes? 17:59:00 +1 17:59:06 That was already in. :) 17:59:13 oh... hehe :) 17:59:20 falktx: craigs63: shnatsel|busy: others? 17:59:25 Going LiveDVD for Oneiric //means starting now 17:59:28 +1 17:59:45 Okay, that one pushed it over the brink, we're going with that then. 17:59:55 \o/ 18:00:00 #action switch to using live dvd for Oneiric + 1 18:00:00 * meetingology switch to using live dvd for Oneiric + 1 18:00:04 I can help, surely 18:00:20 but I need to ask permission for a custom build 18:00:39 .. 18:00:40 Of course, we will have to keep track on how that progresses from early on, and have alternate as an easy fallback in case things turn awkward. 18:00:43 UbuntuStudio 11.10 +KXStudio repos (updated apps and some new) 18:00:43 .. 18:00:59 it's like a UbuntuStudio Remix 18:01:03 hehe 18:01:17 shnatsel|busy, i would like to work very closely with you on the live dvd 18:01:17 we could always have, and encourage community spins 18:01:30 scott-upstairs: awesome! 18:01:36 holstein: Sure, but we're discussing official spins here. 18:01:44 and get falktx in the mix too 18:02:00 astraljava: sure, but we cant have kxstudio pacagkes in an official spin 18:02:03 Images that are spinned by Canonical services. 18:02:13 we cant add non repo pacakges right? 18:02:36 holstein: If I make one, I would have to host it. So hosted on kxstudio sourceforge, a US-remix makes sense I guess 18:02:39 holstein: I know, that's why we're not including KXStudio in the discussion directly. We can, of course, utilize falktx's excellent knowledge and experience on the matter. 18:02:52 cool 18:02:52 astraljava: ^ 18:03:16 falktx: Noted. 18:03:22 well, we are at an hour... thats pretty much it? 18:03:23 Can I get any ..'s ? 18:03:24 astraljava: also note that, using PPAs, we are free to do/add anything 18:03:33 holstein: Did we ever limit ourselves to an hour? 18:03:35 astraljava: including VST plugins 18:03:38 astraljava: nay 18:03:42 just sayin 18:03:45 Sure. 18:03:49 .. 18:03:50 i think scott-upstairs needs to split 18:03:57 falktx: Yup, but we cannot, as Ubuntu Studio. 18:03:59 i'm good for a bit more 18:04:02 cool 18:04:03 me too 18:04:04 Right, moving on. 18:04:12 #subtopic lowlatency kernel 18:04:18 Anyone checked this recently? 18:04:21 i'll spearhead this 18:04:24 i guess we still need it right? 18:04:32 astraljava: I know, but a community image can, that's the cool thing about it 18:04:33 I guess... 18:04:33 yes, we need it and we will have it for oneiric 18:04:47 scott-upstairs: w00t 18:04:48 i was relying on persia, i'll be more persistent with him 18:04:51 abogani usually did this 18:05:06 what happened to him? 18:05:06 falktx he made the package, yes 18:05:10 but i am doing it now for him 18:05:19 and if i can't get persia to commit to anyting 18:05:20 yeah, he doesnt want to maintain it anymore 18:05:36 i'm going to start pushing extremely hard in #ubuntu-motu to review the package in REVU 18:05:44 scott-upstairs: let me know 18:05:50 i plan to move heaven and earth as much as i can to make this happen 18:05:52 ill mention it to the graners :) 18:06:03 #action scott-upstairs to make lowlatency move forward 18:06:03 * meetingology scott-upstairs to make lowlatency move forward 18:06:09 .. 18:06:09 we don't need UKT input for this, just MOTU 18:06:12 .. 18:06:19 can we skip to launchpad and lbueprints ? 18:06:20 .. 18:06:26 scott-upstairs: Sure. 18:06:28 i feel it's very important 18:06:57 scott-upstairs: Did you include it in the agenda?I'm not seeing it. 18:07:02 I did 18:07:07 astraljava: refresh :) 18:07:15 it's down close to bottom 18:07:16 shnatsel|busy: Ahh, thanks. 18:07:26 shnatsel|busy, should probably table this topic anyways 18:07:37 I feel that US needs more organized workflow inside the project 18:07:41 #action skipping a few items, will postpone to October's meeting. 18:07:41 * meetingology skipping a few items, will postpone to October's meeting. 18:07:52 #topic Improving workflow 18:08:06 #subtopic Use a public specification tracker (LP blueprints?) 18:08:08 for example, there's this LiveDVD initiative, but nobody except those who visit the meetings know about it 18:08:12 shnatsel|busy: scott-upstairs: Go ahead. 18:08:24 shnatsel|busy: actually, its been emailed around a few time 18:08:28 there's no place which lists plans for next release 18:08:30 etc 18:08:41 or keeps things organized and easy to update 18:08:42 i think there are, but there are many places 18:08:50 the wikis get fragmented 18:08:54 and duplicated 18:08:57 there needs one, open, easy to maintain place 18:09:02 but this would be a good way to keep it all together and let people know exactly where to go and update 18:09:02 its not clear, thats for sure.. i can agree 18:09:11 I have a writeup on that considering different options 18:09:15 http://elementaryos.org/journal/how-see-what%E2%80%99s-our-sleeves 18:09:16 shnatsel|busy: i like that 18:09:25 We ended up using LP blueprints 18:09:29 i've been exploring some blueprints as well and coming to grips with them and specifications 18:09:29 and that really worked 18:09:40 the thing I love about blueprints is that not only they provide a convenient way to track plans and proposals (we have LiveDVD proposal but it's not written down anywhere, the todo list exists only in my mind, etc), but they also make those plans visible to the public. 18:09:55 http://elementaryos.org/journal/how-see-what%E2%80%99s-our-sleeves really worked - people not involved in the project started picking up blueprints and working on them 18:10:19 shnatsel|busy: what does that mean to us though? 18:10:25 what would i do to use that? 18:10:50 * holstein looking at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ 18:10:59 holstein: here we come to the next, closely related topic 18:11:07 holstein: workflow guidelines 18:11:09 :) 18:11:27 #subtopic Write/update workflow guidelines 18:12:03 holstein: if you take time to read the blog post behind the link above, you'll see that first it explains the concept of a blueprint, why they are needed and how to use them 18:12:14 holstein: then it explains the desired workflow 18:12:15 sure, i'll give it a look 18:13:20 holstein: that ensures tjat proposals are seen and plan listings are available for anybody to read 18:13:42 +1 18:14:00 holstein: moreover, community contributors can pick up certain tasks 18:14:14 sure, i like the idea 18:14:21 +1 18:14:25 im sure it works well 18:14:34 we are just so wiki-centric 18:14:36 A needless +1 18:14:41 This is just a given. :) 18:15:02 I actually thought it will happen, but I was surprised nevertheless when a stranger came and did lots of work that I planned for myself but wrote down to a blueprint anyway 18:15:15 shnatsel|busy: Are you willing to drive this issue, so that every member of the team gets familiar with it, and it starts to see actual usage? 18:15:56 shnatsel|busy: maybe you can talk me through setting one up sometime 18:16:00 astraljava: I hope that my journal post (link above) is sufficient 18:16:15 I can explain any details you need 18:16:18 i can help those who want to create one as well 18:16:39 astraljava: we also need a way to communicate with the audience 18:16:54 astraljava: to make all that openness work 18:17:02 website comments! 18:17:16 falktx: blog-centric website! 18:17:24 +1 18:17:30 falktx: posts in newsblogs about us! 18:17:33 yeah, but it might be a little late 18:17:36 i mean, we can do that 18:17:44 but, we need to start over on the site 18:17:56 OMG!Ubuntu! is a good way to give visibility to something. 18:17:56 and its been *so* long that the currrent one has be borked 18:17:58 holstein: the new proposal allows comments 18:18:04 I will add that as an item for a later meeting, we will not have time for it today. 18:18:07 i hate to take on a new system, and start over 18:18:12 we can make a blog site that is not at our current website 18:18:16 like OMGUbuntu 18:18:27 at this point, i want something new/funtional even if its wrong 18:18:31 scott-upstairs: what happened to jorge (creator of the site proposal) ? 18:18:45 falktx: busy :/ 18:18:48 new job? 18:18:49 falktx, jorge moved to japan and is too busy with a new job 18:18:49 something like that 18:18:53 .. 18:19:00 he checks in occaionally though 18:19:04 and i like that site 18:19:07 is it possible to have the his website sources? 18:19:09 scott-upstairs: somebody gotta take up where he left 18:19:13 i remember us talking about blogs back then though 18:19:37 I'm willing to keep working on the site, but I need sources... 18:19:39 shnatsel|busy, are you suggesting we make dedicated blog site or roll it into whatever website we end up with? 18:19:50 can we remember why we didnt do a blog? 18:20:13 i like the former because it can be split between people 18:20:15 scott-upstairs: make the main US website blog-centric for now and use newsblogs to promote the project as well 18:20:15 The topic, however isn't on the website, now. Can we discuss that later on? 18:20:30 absolutely ... 18:20:31 .. 18:21:08 I guess we already covered the next subtopic, then. 18:21:24 To sum up, we need workflow guidelines to be written, and lots of deduplication, switching to more user-friendly services, etc 18:21:24 #topic Any other business? 18:21:34 Sorry, shnatsel|busy, please go on. 18:21:52 shnatsel|busy: im all for that, and will help anyway i can 18:22:01 duplication is a drag 18:22:04 Agreed, we're lagging behind in that one. 18:22:11 and when i think about cleaning up our wiki's, i get sad 18:22:24 And a good thing to keep in mind with this is that it's not contained in a devel cycle timeframe. 18:22:24 i would much rather implement something we would like and move forward with that 18:22:28 holstein: then drop it. 18:22:43 shnatsel|busy: drop what? 18:22:57 holstein: blueprints + links to whatever services where the full specs are stored 18:23:03 holstein: that's the core 18:23:11 holstein: bug tracker rocks 18:23:14 drop the wiki he's saying 18:23:21 yeah.. but can we? 18:23:27 holstein: you also need a blog, that's a website affair 18:23:33 scott-upstairs: would we just clean out the wikis? 18:23:44 will someone delete them for us? the pages? 18:23:52 anyways... for later... 18:23:55 i'm sure we can do something 18:24:11 we're pushing 90 minutes, i gotta go 18:24:11 lets just say, this is a good idea for now, and see where it goes 18:24:13 holstein: if you don't like them, don't link to them from main US wiki page 18:24:24 ok 18:24:25 .. 18:24:31 Right, so to cut it short, any other business that hasn't been discussed yet? 18:24:39 delete the wiki? and have the webpage with a wiki contained? 18:24:50 shnatsel|busy, i would like to work with you again on the work flow, blueprints, blog direction and develop a good plan to move forward 18:24:59 scott-upstairs: awsum 18:25:26 scott-upstairs: I already did much of that for elementary, so I think we can reuse lots of stuff 18:25:30 #action scott-upstairs to drive the usage of blueprints etc. with shnatsel|busy, astraljava (and others who so inspire) 18:25:30 * meetingology scott-upstairs to drive the usage of blueprints etc. with shnatsel|busy, astraljava (and others who so inspire) 18:25:49 If not, then I'm going to close this meeting. 18:26:07 Next meeting is... 18:26:29 October 2nd. 18:26:35 17000 UTC. 18:26:38 oops 18:26:43 1700 UTC, of course. 18:26:51 On #ubuntu-meeting. 18:27:11 great meeting all... thanks 18:27:23 #topic Next Meeting Chair 18:27:29 Any volunteers? 18:27:48 astraljava: im always up for it assuming im home 18:27:56 holstein: Thanks. 18:28:13 #action holstein to chair the next meeting, unless something surprising happens 18:28:13 * meetingology holstein to chair the next meeting, unless something surprising happens 18:28:18 #endmeeting