== Meeting information == * #ubuntu-manual Meeting, 08 Jun at 18:11 — 19:57 UTC * Full logs at [[http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-manual/2013/ubuntu-manual.2013-06-08-18.11.log.html]] == Meeting summary == === Evaluating Raring === The discussion about "Evaluating Raring" started at 18:17. * ''LINK:'' https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApS28NMLnYJXdEdGQjRtUWtaOUZxREVzUldSOU5kc2c#gid=0 * ''ACTION:'' JimConnett will see to it that authors meet on irc once a month * ''IDEA:'' any thoughts on using Google+/hangouts for live sessions? (CrustyBarnacle, 18:28) * ''ACTION:'' hannie will send an email to the list about better cooperation author/editor * ''ACTION:'' CarstenG will look into this matter ;) === 2: How to get more contributors === The discussion about "2: How to get more contributors" started at 18:47. * ''ACTION:'' JimConnett and godbyk will look into the matter of getting more contributors === 3: Release schedule Saucy === The discussion about "3: Release schedule Saucy" started at 19:01. * ''ACTION:'' godbyk starts a mailing list thread on how we can get more contributors === 4 screenshots === The discussion about "4 screenshots" started at 19:11. * ''ACTION:'' ThomasC will try to revive quickshot === translations === The discussion about "translations" started at 19:17. * ''ACTION:'' godbyk will document responsibilities and processes for each type of contributor === 6: bug handling === The discussion about "6: bug handling" started at 19:26. * ''ACTION:'' hannie will start discussion on bug fixing on the mailing list === lubuntu === The discussion about "lubuntu" started at 19:32. * ''LINK:'' https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/msg04133.html == Vote results == == Action items == * JimConnett will see to it that authors meet on irc once a month * hannie will send an email to the list about better cooperation author/editor * CarstenG will look into this matter ;) * JimConnett and godbyk will look into the matter of getting more contributors * godbyk starts a mailing list thread on how we can get more contributors * ThomasC will try to revive quickshot * godbyk will document responsibilities and processes for each type of contributor * hannie will start discussion on bug fixing on the mailing list == Action items, by person == * CarstenG * CarstenG will look into this matter ;) * godbyk * JimConnett and godbyk will look into the matter of getting more contributors * godbyk starts a mailing list thread on how we can get more contributors * godbyk will document responsibilities and processes for each type of contributor * hannie * hannie will send an email to the list about better cooperation author/editor * hannie will start discussion on bug fixing on the mailing list * JimConnett * JimConnett will see to it that authors meet on irc once a month * JimConnett and godbyk will look into the matter of getting more contributors * Thomas * ThomasC will try to revive quickshot * ThomasC * ThomasC will try to revive quickshot == People present (lines said) == * hannie (139) * godbyk (87) * JimConnett (47) * jmarsden (39) * CarstenG (34) * c7p (31) * ThomasC (26) * CrustyBarnacle (22) * phillw (19) * cqfd93 (16) * meetingology (11) * Yorvyk (10) * TonyP (6) * ibere_SP (3) * Guest70970 (3) * Thomas (1) == Full Log == 18:11 #startmeeting 18:11 Meeting started Sat Jun 8 18:11:44 2013 UTC. The chair is hannie. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. 18:11 18:11 Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired 18:11 Do you want me to be chair for the moment? 18:12 Yes 18:12 ok, lets see who is attending, please give a sign 18:12 o/ 18:12 hi! 18:12 o/ 18:12 hi 18:12 o/ 18:12 Greetings from the Pacific Northwest! 18:13 Here is the link once more: http://pastebin.com/Cw5KU51h 18:13 howdy 18:13 o/ 18:13 Before we start, are there any newcomers? Could you introduce yourself? 18:14 hi, I'm phillw lubuntu QA / Testing Team Lead. 18:14 I'm noew to ubuntu-manual. A minor developer of Lubuntu. Some past LaTex experience. Interested in the proposed Lubuntu Manual work. 18:14 hi there! i'm ibere and i'm starting to help on lubuntu support team as a contributor. i'm active mainly on facebook lubuntu channel. 18:15 ah, phillw welcome to the club! 18:15 Howdy y'all :-) 18:15 welcome ibere_SP another lubuntu enthousiast :) 18:15 Hi, I'm the idiot that proposed the Lubuntu version of the manual 18:15 KEVIN! 18:15 (secretly using Lubuntu on his lappy....) 18:16 sry for that 18:16 ...maybe... 18:16 Yorvyk, we will talk about that later, ok? 18:16 Yep 18:16 * JimConnett is installing Lubuntu on a VERY old laptop even as we speak. 18:16 Ok, lets start with the first item on the agenda 18:17 #topic Evaluating Raring 18:17 I want to start with the authors phase. c7p could you tell something about that, please? 18:18 sure 18:19 author phase proceed with with some problems related to lack of authors 18:19 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApS28NMLnYJXdEdGQjRtUWtaOUZxREVzUldSOU5kc2c#gid=0 18:19 i think that was very vivid during editor phase where editors had to fill some gaps 18:20 yes, sometimes the line between autoring and editing becomes very thin 18:20 after this we gained 2 new authors if my memory preserves me right, something that's very important 18:20 c7p, I am sure you did everything to get as many authors aboard as you could 18:20 Hey, guys. Sorry I'm late. I lost track of time. 18:21 hey godbyk we just started the meeting. 18:21 one thing that was missing was communication between authors, but i think i'm to blame for that 18:21 hi kevin! 18:21 Hi Kevin! 18:21 * godbyk will read the backlog and get caught up. 18:22 godbyk, here is the link to the agenda items: http://pastebin.com/Cw5KU51h 18:22 c7p, communication via the mailing list or private emails? 18:23 If I could append to c7p's report... 18:23 both and live sessions too 18:23 So here is a point of improvement that Jim will handle 18:23 to all, jim is our new authors coordinator 18:23 yea maybe 18:23 The google docs spreadsheet just posted by hannie has a complete accounting of our current authors for 13.10 18:24 I felt disconnected from the other Authors/Editors... but, my own communication/reaching out could improve too. 18:24 Every author from 13.04 has been emailed, and every author replied (except for one, I think). 18:24 CrustyBarnacle, that is an important piece of information 18:24 We lost two in the process, so the spreadsheet clearly shows where we are ok, and where we are weak. 18:24 JimConnett, will you see to it that communication gets better? 18:25 Maybe authors could have a monthly IRC meeting, or similar, so they feel more like a community? 18:25 My goal is to connect the authors to the editors. I think this is an important piece to the puzzle we are missing. 18:25 jmarsden, good idea. Will you coordinate that? 18:25 i think live sessions would be ideal 18:25 +1 jim 18:25 We also have to recruit. I've already contacted OMG! Ubuntu! for some type of interaction as they have helped us before. No reply yet. 18:26 jmarsden, sorry, I meant JimConnett 18:26 hannie: Well, I expect to me more of an editor than author for Lubuntu related work... but if no one else volunteers, sure. 18:26 hannie: Ah, good :) 18:26 I can certainly explore an IRC meeting every month up to the due date 18:27 But right now, we only have a handful of authors, and I think our efforts should be equally focused between connecting existing authors and acquiring new authors. 18:27 any thoughts on using Google+/hangouts for live sessions? 18:27 JimConnett: For recruiting in the past, we've posted a list of 'job' openings on our website and then written a little press release about it that we send out to OMG! and others. 18:28 JimConnett: We can also post it on our Facebook page. We've gotten decent use out of that when we're looking for proofreaders, etc. 18:28 #action JimConnett will see to it that authors meet on irc once a month 18:28 * meetingology JimConnett will see to it that authors meet on irc once a month 18:28 #idea any thoughts on using Google+/hangouts for live sessions? 18:28 i think that we should contact translation teams to for new members 18:29 many of us are contributing ubuntu manual, because we learnt the project through translations 18:29 Aren't the translation teams part of the mailing list already? 18:29 what i mean is that translation teams are more close to project than the rest of community 18:30 CrustyBarnacle, we could use hangouts too 18:30 If they are, surely, they would have seen the need and stepped up as appropriate! 18:30 c7p, we will talk about translations later 18:30 JimConnett: Sometimes a person just likes to be asked. ;-) 18:31 not talking about translations but for new member recruits 18:31 but it's next on agenda so leave it for later 18:32 right. recruiting. don't we do that already using the mailing list? Everyone who needs help can find us on irc or the mailing list 18:32 Alright...so, for this part of our agenda....we have a proper accounting of authors for 13.10 18:33 The proposed schedule looks good as well. 18:33 ok, I suggest we go to the editors phase evaluation: 18:33 For Raring every chapter/section had an editor. Like we said before, the work for editors was sometimes more difficult 18:33 * JimConnett wonders if THIS time the developer teams will hold to their feature freeze commitment. 18:34 I would like to see more cooperation between the author(s) and editor(s) of a chapter/section 18:35 How chould we improve that? 18:35 *could 18:36 Again, I think this comes down to communication. Everytime an author commits, we should immediately connect them with the editor. 18:36 Have Editor/s per section, instead of throughout the manual? That is, limit to a section? 18:36 CrustyBarnacle: Currently editors are assigned to specific chapters/sections just as the authors are. 18:36 CrustyBarnacle, some editors edit more than one chapter/section. That is necessary because we do not have enough editors 18:37 OK... 18:37 i think that meetings could help and also we could add a week between author and editing phase, where editor and author would have to cooperate 18:37 JimConnett, agreed. Better communication between author/editor 18:37 Evaluation final phase: was that phase ok? 18:37 it may sound silly, but it maybe a way to formalize that editor and author have to be in contact with each other 18:37 JimConnett: can bzr send email to the relevant editor when a commit is made to a given chapter? Some sort of bzr hook script? 18:37 I think editors and authors should be cooperating from the beginning 18:38 +1 bzr email 18:38 jmarsden: Possibly. I'm not too familiar with bzr hooks, but I'll look into it. 18:38 ok, I suggest one of us will put this on the mailing list 18:38 * godbyk has used svn hooks before, but not bzr or git hooks yet. 18:39 that sounds good 18:39 Are there any downsides to "reassigning" editors? 18:39 Early meeting of editor/author sounds like a good idea to help get started 18:39 godbyk, I get messages from LP as soon as a commit is done 18:39 JimConnett: To get notified about commits, I think every author and editor should be subscribed in the code branch to get an email from LP 18:39 #action hannie will send an email to the list about better cooperation author/editor 18:39 * meetingology hannie will send an email to the list about better cooperation author/editor 18:40 jmarsden: Yes, you have to subscribe you here: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/saucy 18:40 Are there still any questions about evaluation of raring? 18:40 hannie: So do I. But I get message as soon as anyone pushes to the branch. Can we make it so editors see commits only from their authors? 18:41 Maybe we can set the manual team here to get emails about commits 18:41 i 've spoken for authors, authors that are here can express themselves too 18:41 At the moment the team gets no emails... 18:41 CarstenG: That might get pretty noisy on the mailing list. 18:41 about how they evaluate the previous sereis 18:42 godbyk: I suspect you can if someone writes an appropriate hook script, but I am no expert on that. 18:42 Well, you can use filters to sort out such email in a special folder. 18:43 While I think the authors need to be writing NOW...authoring is a double edged sword 18:43 I guess every email program can do this. 18:43 For the moment I would say: if everyone gets a message when something is pushed he/she can see if it concerns his/her chapter and take action if necessary 18:43 If you author NOW, then features can (and will) change all the way to feature freeze, requiring re-authoring. 18:43 If you are going to mae everyone see all commits, I'd suggest doing it as a separate mailing list ubuntu-mainual-commits or similar 18:43 If you author a few days before the deadline, we're scrambling, and it puts editors in a difficult position. 18:44 +1 separate mailing list for commits (I just subscribed to saucy branch on launchpad) 18:44 JimConnett: Yeah, I think that's the crux of it. 18:44 I do not mind receiving a private message when things are pushed to LP 18:44 jmarsden: Well as I told, the usage of filters is very helpful here. 18:45 I say we start authoring, and editors are responsible for last-minute changes in feature/ui (making sure they are documented correctly). 18:45 Conclusion: we will have to find out if we can personalize the LP messages 18:45 Hannie: You ar not yet subscribed to the saucy branch... 18:45 Hello everyone! I'm sorry I am late. 18:45 CarstenG, oh, I will look into it later 18:45 CarstenG: Agreed but it's traditional to have a separate list for that stuff, and it avoids putting off newcomers to the mailing list who don't understand why they are seeing all these "wierd" messages :) 18:45 +1 18:46 If there are no more questions on this subject I want to move to the next item 18:46 Hello. I hope I didn't miss everything... 18:46 Guest70970, perhaps you can introduce yourself to us? 18:46 ok, if we can manage it to push these mails to another list... 18:47 #action CarstenG will look into this matter ;) 18:47 * meetingology CarstenG will look into this matter ;) 18:47 Yes hannie. I am Thomas Corwin. 18:47 ah, welcome thomas 18:47 #topic 2: How to get more contributors 18:48 I personally am not very good at this. Are there any suggestions? 18:48 hi TonyP 18:48 Hi TonyP 18:48 Sorry I'm late as usual 18:49 Hi Thomas and TonyP 18:49 Have we done enough in the past to get contributors, and what more can we do? 18:49 Good questions. 18:49 It's interesting that the idea of an Lubuntu version has got you at least 3 or 4 people here today... have you thought of a KDE version, an Xubuntu version, etc? Would thatr get you more folks from those flavours? 18:49 I'll be connecting with Kevin via email for the contact information, the whats, and the hows, with past avenues to put out a call for new authors/editors. 18:49 In the past, I think we've just posted on Facebook, tried to get a post on OMG!, and tried to get a post on Ubuntu Planet. 18:49 Then hope that people show up looking to help. 18:50 LUGs... anyone attend regularly to announce locally? 18:50 I joined following a message on the Ubuntu-uk loco list 18:50 I'm typing this from a LUG :) 18:50 #action JimConnett and godbyk will look into the matter of getting more contributors 18:50 * meetingology JimConnett and godbyk will look into the matter of getting more contributors 18:50 jmarsden: We've thought about that before, but weren't sure we'd get enough people to work on those spin-off manuals. 18:50 The translations teams would be also a good source of new contributors, or? 18:51 Could I add something to the agenda if there is time, hannie? 18:51 jmarsden, good suggestion to see if we can get people from other flavors willing to work for the manual 18:51 Guest70970, sure, go ahead 18:51 CarstenG: Yeah, we have quite a few translators who have stuck around to help with the English manual (hannie, c7p, cqfd93, etc.). 18:52 we 've to look on who will coordinate these spin-off manuals, not sure if we can make it 18:52 Anyone worried about resource dilution? 18:53 sorry huys, feeding time here, I'll read the scroll back later :( 18:53 JimConnett: I am. :) 18:53 s/h/g/ 18:53 phillw: No problem. Thanks for coming! 18:53 see you, phillw 18:53 We're already inviting authors/editors to one project...now we have Lubuntu, which is great, but is there really THAT much crossover? 18:53 Example...screenshots from Ubuntu are unusable. 18:53 ...unusable in Lubuntu. 18:54 Sory. I disconnected on accident... 18:54 sorry) 18:54 JimConnett, people from other flavors can help with the ubuntu manual as well: e.g. proofreading 18:55 Hopefully once people gain the basic skillset they can use it for multiple flavors... only way to know is to try, I think. 18:55 I'd be interested in how much of Troubleshooting can crossover the different flavors 18:55 I will do Wine for the different flavours. 18:56 And an editor for Ubuntu would need to have an installation of Lubuntu if the editor is going to properly fulfill their commitment. I have about 7 different VMs installed on my machine, so I can handle it, but others> 18:56 We need to do some research first to see if there are a great many differences between the flavors 18:56 There are. Just installed Lubuntu during this session. DVD/CD burning, Office applications (I could go on and on) are different. 18:57 let's put the talk on a foundation 18:57 hannie, i myself can say i learned a lot of Lubuntu reading Ubuntu manual. 18:57 ibere_SP, that is good to hear 18:58 same people will handle both manuals ? 18:58 or there would be "different" teams 18:58 That's a later topic, I think :) 18:58 After we are done with the important topics, i have a question.. 18:59 So, about this topic: will JimConnett and godbyk see to this? 18:59 The topic was: how do we get more contributors? 18:59 I'm already taking on a lot. Recruitment is my number one goal. I'd prefer someone else look into this. 18:59 If there are no more questions, I want to go to item 3 18:59 ...someone else look into the feasibility of crossover between Ubuntu and Lubuntu for authors/editors. 19:00 hannie: I can explain what we've done in the past and help brainstorm ideas for the future, sure. 19:00 JimConnett: I think hannie was talking about getting more contributors there. 19:00 Ok, I suggest we continue this via the mailing list (getting more contributors) 19:00 hannie: Sounds good. 19:00 JimConnett: I can do that in the next couple days, if thats alright. 19:00 Anyone who has an idea, please send it to the list 19:01 I'll start a mailing list thread on this topic after the meeting. 19:01 #topic 3: Release schedule Saucy 19:01 Have you all seen the schedule I proposed? 19:02 Is there a link to it? 19:02 #action godbyk starts a mailing list thread on how we can get more contributors 19:02 * meetingology godbyk starts a mailing list thread on how we can get more contributors 19:02 TonyP: http://pastebin.com/Cw5KU51h 19:02 Thanks 19:02 ....gives us authors ~ 3 months. That's good. Authors? Are ya'll good with that? See any issues> 19:03 Can't editors edit during the authoring phase, as soon as an author commits something?? 19:03 3 months sound like a good amount of time. 19:03 JimConnett: That's true.. but usually most of their work has to happen toward the end of that time as they have to wait for the developers to finish uploading their latest work. 19:03 The strict separating in time seems unnecessary 19:03 JimConnett, if the stretch is too long there is a danger of postponing work to the last minute 19:03 the amount of time isn't a real factor to tell, i agree with Kevin 19:04 jmarsden: They could as long as they avoid bzr conflicts and the like. (No one likes merging conflicts.) 19:04 Sure. Iwas thinking it would help the author/ewditor collaboration if they work together... 19:04 i think that there should be given one more week for authors (talking as past author coordinator), in previous series one more week was vital 19:05 There is no exclusivity in the schedule. We have to have a drop-dead date to keep the project on target. 19:05 I think authors and editors can start by rereading raring and see if it needs to be improved 19:05 jmarsden: Absolutely! If authors and editors are working together closely then there shouldn't be an problems with having both of them working at the same time. 19:05 agreed 19:06 c7p: So would we reduce the editing phase to just 1 week? Or is there something else that would need to be adjusted in the schedule to compensate? 19:06 i cant talk for editors, but i think we can amend the release date, no big deal 19:07 can we just list it as Writing Finishes / Editing Begins (both in the same week)>? 19:07 I was thinking that 2 weeks editing was little enough 19:07 c7p, so you agree with the schedule? 19:07 As an editor, a one week is too short. 19:07 I had a lot of problems with both the lasy two relaeases 19:07 c7p: Do you mean release the manual a week after Ubuntu has been released? 19:08 yep 19:08 The editors phase is 2 weeks now 19:08 hannie: Perhaps you should talk about the changes you made to this schedule. How does it differ from the raring schedule? 19:08 I'd like to keep those 2 weeks 19:08 that would go so if editors think that they need more time 19:08 The schedule does not differ too much from the raring schedule 19:09 There is only a slight overlap between the editing phase and the indexing phase due to 19:09 * JimConnett thinks we've tried SO HARD to coordinate software and manual release...that it would be a step back to propose any other release plan. 19:09 the ubuntu release schedule 19:09 * JimConnett has to leave in 21 minutes. 19:10 So, does the schedule needs any adjustment? 19:10 My vote is 'no'. 19:10 no 19:10 no 19:10 no 19:10 Ok, next: 19:11 #topic 4 screenshots 19:11 CarstenG, cqfd93 could you say anything about this? 19:12 I have a great experience in screenshotting 19:12 Well, I would do them again :-) 19:12 me too 19:12 Did you encounter any problems in the raring version? 19:12 Sounds like we have a screenshot team! ;-) 19:12 How automated is that process, and can it be made to work in Lubuntu too? 19:13 jmarsden: At the moment, the process isn't automated at all. 19:13 no problems 19:13 Right, CarstenG and cqfd93 will look after the screenshots 19:13 One bad thing was the Feature Freeze exeption with some icons... 19:13 jmarsden: You have to manually take each screenshot. 19:13 ah. I thought I saw something about a python tool to automate things...? 19:13 I REALLY like the fact that we have a dedicated team for screenshots. Keeps our shots uniform. 19:13 jmarsden: We had one once upon a time (Quickshot) but we haven't had any developers for it in eons, so it no longer works. 19:13 jmarsden: You mean Quickshot? 19:14 That does not work anymore... 19:14 CarstenG: Probably :) 19:14 jmarsden: I still think it'd be great if Quickshot could be revived as I think it did simplify things quite a bit. But that's just my opinion. 19:14 We would need a developer to update it to 13.10. 19:14 Otherwise Lubuntu could double the workload for the screenshot team... are they willing to tolerate that? 19:14 JimConnett: I agree. 19:15 So...Carsten and Sylvie, can we officially commit you both to the screenshots for 13.10? 19:15 jmardsen: no commitment has been made to Lubuntu yet.. separate topic/project 19:15 Well, the Lubuntu team should find a own screenshot team :-) 19:15 I could TRY to make a new version of Quickshot... I can't promise anything. 19:15 for ubuntu, yes 19:15 As long as there are no devolopers to adjust quickshot we will not use it 19:15 for Lubuntu, I don't know 19:15 CarstenG and cqfd93, are there any issues you encountered with screenshots? Anything we can do to make your lives easier there? 19:15 hannie: How badly broken is it? I could take a quick look, but I'm not volunteering tens of hours for fixing it... 19:16 ThomasC, it would be great if you want to give it a try 19:16 hannie, alright. I will work on it when i can. 19:16 jmarsden, it is outdated and needs a lot of rewriting 19:16 godbyk, I don't remember of any serious problems 19:16 Well, I had no big problems, only the grub screen I had to do in a VM... 19:16 #action ThomasC will try to revive quickshot 19:16 * meetingology ThomasC will try to revive quickshot 19:17 cqfd93: Great! 19:17 Great 19:17 CarstenG: Yeah, the GRUB screenshot is always a pain. 19:17 No more question about screenshots? 19:17 We have a new screenshot team: CarstenG and sylvie 19:17 ;-) 19:17 * JimConnett has documented Carsten and Sylvie as our highly-capable, super-intelligent screenshot team for Ubuntu 13.10. 19:17 one point ... 19:17 #topic translations 19:18 * JimConnett ...in the google docs spreadsheet 19:18 ah, CarstenG go ahead 19:18 If authors want to have new screenshots, they should do a first draft for them self. 19:18 +1 19:18 +1 19:18 Then we can make them right. 19:18 +1 19:18 +1 19:18 +1 19:19 CarstenG, I suggest authors can get help using the mailing list if they get stuck 19:19 Sure. 19:19 hannie, quick question 19:19 Next: translations 19:19 ThomasC, go ahead 19:19 One of the ideas I had the other day was to document the responsibilities and processes for each type of contributor (author, editor, translator, etc.) so that these things (e.g., 'you must take a draft screenshot') are more clear. 19:20 I'll try to work on that soon and get it added to the style guide. 19:20 * JimConnett has to leave in 10 minutes. 19:20 What features did Quickshot have, i am not familiar with it, but i am a novice developer. 19:20 godbyk, very good idea! 19:20 ThomasC: I'll email you some links and info about Quickshot after the meeting. 19:20 ThomasC: Suggest running it in a VM on the last version it works on, to see how it used to work? 19:21 ThomasC, I suggest we continue about quickshot using the mailing list 19:21 Thanks. I will after the meeting. 19:21 ThomasC: Maybe you can install a 10.04 in a VM an test it there? then you get a feeling of it... 19:21 Translations? 19:22 #action godbyk will document responsibilities and processes for each type of contributor 19:22 * meetingology godbyk will document responsibilities and processes for each type of contributor 19:22 Ok, now to item 5: Translations 19:22 I have to go... will catch up and send ideas/comments to mailing list... bye All 19:23 Are we happy about how translations work at the moment? 19:23 CrustyBarnacle, thanks a lot for attending. see you soon 19:23 See you Mario 19:23 For the French translation, yes! :-) 19:23 hasta luego 19:23 bye! 19:23 (Aside from my tardiness in getting them published? ;-)) 19:24 * godbyk promises to work on the French and Slovenian translations this weekend! 19:24 Dutch translations, only LTS 19:24 great! 19:24 Well, we have 3 languages on 100 % only some days after release of raring! Thats great. 19:24 CarstenG: Yeah, I think these translators are getting *too good* at their work! :-) 19:25 No more questions on translations? 19:25 For 13.04, both the French and Slovenian translations are about ready to be published. 19:25 So I have the idea to open the translation some time earlier. 19:25 How about the Spanish translation? 19:25 CarstenG: ? 19:25 So we can publish also translations in time with the release. 19:26 hannie: I haven't heard from the Spanish translation team yet. 19:26 Next: 19:26 CarstenG: Ah. Well, to do that we have to either fix Launchpad or stop writing/editing early enough for the translators to start their work. 19:26 #topic 6: bug handling 19:27 Well, in the last period of editing we mostly do fix typos, so the translators can handle this, too... 19:27 Do we have to assign bug fixing to members of our team? 19:28 At this moment some of us look at bug reports occasionally (I think) 19:28 hannie: How does our bug handling look at the moment? 19:28 I volunteer to help for bug fixing 19:28 Do we have a lot of bugs that need to be dealt with? 19:29 I would like to see more structure in the way we fix bugs. 19:29 I know I haven't been very studious about dealing with them lately. 19:29 Well, I think who is interested in bug fixing, should join the group https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual-bugs 19:29 Can you get an automated summary of open bugs emailed to the mailing list, monthly or even weekly? To provide visibility to the team on what needs fixing? 19:29 I am in favor of letting authors/editors take care a bugs that affect their chapter 19:29 *car of 19:30 * care of (oops) 19:30 Alright...I need to leave. Thanks for all the ideas and everyone's participation today. Look to the mail list in the next week for information about recruitment and author-editor coordination. Great to be a part of this project. 19:30 If you are subscribed there, you get emails about all bugs... 19:30 JimConnett, thank you for being with us. see you 19:30 jmarsden: Good idea. I'll have to look into that, too. 19:30 jmarsden, good idea 19:30 ...also, my new email address is jim@jimconnett.com. Both old and new email addresses work, but I'm going to be moving to the new address for this project. Have a great day. 19:31 I suggest we continue discussion on bug fixing using the mailing list 19:31 see you 19:31 hannie: Sounds good. 19:31 #action hannie will start discussion on bug fixing on the mailing list 19:31 * meetingology hannie will start discussion on bug fixing on the mailing list 19:32 Last topic: 19:32 #topic lubuntu 19:32 finally we get at lubuntu ;) 19:32 Did we scare off all the Lubuntu guys yet? ;-) 19:32 hannie: can i add a topic? it would help me greatly... 19:32 * jmarsden is still here :) 19:32 And i want to help with Lubuntu! :) 19:32 godbyk, I think your explanation on the different possibilities was great 19:33 o/ 19:33 so, we have 3 lubuntu people here 19:33 Thanks for sticking with us, guys. Sorry it took so long to get to this topic. 19:33 Yorvyk, what do you think of the suggestions godbyk wrote on the mailing list? 19:34 One moment, see if I can open that email.... 19:35 Basically he confirmed what I'd thought 19:35 sry dc 19:35 https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/msg04133.html 19:36 * phillw is back 19:36 Sorry I'm in a pub and I'm going to have to move to another area. BRB 19:36 phillw: Just in time! :) 19:36 So are you interested in going with the PDF-only route? 19:37 Could other flavors make manuals under the umbrella of the Ubuntu Manual Project? 19:37 hannie: I don't have any problems with that. 19:37 godbyk: does the pdf version retain links? 19:37 phillw: Yes. 19:38 that would kill two birds with one stone and reduce our workload for a small team! 19:38 excellent :D 19:38 Currently, the Ubuntu Manual project uses LaTeX for our work. 19:38 With LaTeX, we generate PDFs. 19:38 In addition to the free PDFs, we also offer printed editions of the manual that we currently publish through CreateSpace. 19:39 is there any move to doodle planned? 19:39 I would stick with PDFs, unless there is demand for something else 19:39 I think there is enough interest in a Ubuntu Manual-derived Lubuntu Manual that we should figure out how to make it happen -- do we do it as a fork of the Ubuntu Manual bzr repository, or as a sudirectory of it, or even with #ifdef like handling of the chunks of the LaTeX that need to differ between the two? 19:39 We do not currently offer other ebook formats though this is something I'd like to try to do in the future. 19:39 sticking to pdf makes things easier I think 19:39 hannie: +1 19:40 jmarsden: I would probably just have a lubuntu-manual bzr repository and you can pull across the existing framework and files that you're interested in sharing. 19:40 phillw: doodle? 19:41 godbyk: ubuntu-doc are evidently going to be using it. 19:41 godbyk, phillw, Yorvyk may I suggest we work out a plan of close cooperation and publish lubuntu under the umbrella of the ubuntu Manual Project? 19:41 phillw: Ah, I haven't heard anything about it. Do you have a link? ubuntu-doc is using Mallard at the moment. 19:41 hannie: I think that sounds like a good idea. 19:41 godbyk: I'll dig the links out for you l8er :) 19:41 That is what I was hopping for, with out placing too much burdon on you. 19:42 phillw: No problem. Thanks! 19:42 Yorvyk: We have a little bit of downtime between releases, so it's a good time to sort this out. :) 19:43 godbyk: OK. I can probably set the bzr stuff up if no one else beats me to it :) Maybe we can have a "vendor" subtree with the ubuntu manual sources in that we can sync from the Ubuntu Manual bzr tree from time to time, or something like that. 19:43 phillw, Yorvyk does your lubuntu team have a mailing list or irc channel? 19:43 Yorvyk: I think it would it would be better for us go the manual route, and drop doodle. That means we just have wiki and lubuntu-manual to concentrate on. 19:43 hannie: #lubuntu and #lubuntu-offtopic here on Freenode 19:43 jmarsden, I should address you too, sorry 19:44 phillw: +1 19:44 hannie: And the lubuntu-users mailing list 19:44 ok 19:44 there is a lubuntu-wiki-docs team at https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-wiki-docs 19:45 hannie: Would you prefer we use ubuntu-manual mailing list for discussion as Lubuntu Manual ramps up, or use other channels so we don't add "noise" for those doing the Ubuntu Manual?? 19:46 jmarsden: For now, let's use the ubuntu-manual mailing list. 19:46 Ok with me. phillw, does that work for you? 19:46 jmarsden: If it gets to be too much then we can look into a new mailing list. 19:46 OK with me. 19:46 jmarsden, yes, that would be very convenient 19:46 The ubuntu-manual mailing list and IRC channel are fairly low-traffic, so I don't think it'll be a problem. 19:46 jmarsden: we can use the lubuntu-wiki-docs one for getting the ideas across 19:47 sending a copy to our mailing list is fine 19:47 OK. 19:47 but If the ubuntu-manual team are happy with us using their good offices, that's great :) 19:47 I mean, i know its not my part to do so, but i can make a channel named #lubuntu-manual for now, and someone else can set it up eventually. 19:48 So, shall we continue our discussion on cooperation through our mailing list? 19:48 BTW I downloaded the Ubuntu Manual bzr tree and installed tools and built the PDF last night, just as a starting point... 19:48 ThomasC: I think we're okay using #ubuntu-manual for now. 19:48 jmarsden, that is great 19:48 jmarsden: Ah, cool. Did you encounter any problems? 19:48 we do similar with lubuntu-quality, where a lot gets cc'd to ubuntu-quality, but we can still discuss pure lubuntu things amongst ourselves and not clutter up peoples' inboxes. 19:48 I'd rather stick with ubuntu-manual for now so people don't get isolated in to too many small groups 19:49 godbyk: The script seems a little odd in places but I worked through it. The info on your web site assumes using a non-packaged version of texlibe, I';d prefer update it to recommend using packages now that they do in fact work. 19:49 *texlive 19:49 Are there still any questions before I close this meeting? 19:49 hannie: I have a few 19:49 jmarsden: I'd love to heard your feedback. I think we encountered problems with the Ubuntu packages when it came to translations. 19:50 godbyk: Ok, will post to the ubuntu-manual mailing list which I just subscribed to. 19:50 ThomasC, go ahead 19:50 jmarsden: Thanks! 19:50 godbyk: Apparently someone needs to approve me :) 19:50 jmarsden: I just did 19:51 Thanks. 19:51 godbyk: ditto :) 19:51 I was going to propose a possible full chapter about Wine on ubuntu. I wanted to add explanations about adding prerequisites, as well as have compatability issues that are common listed there, with some trouleshooting. 19:52 phillw: Approved. :) 19:52 thnx 19:52 ThomasC, we should not make the wine section too comprehensive (that is just my opinion) but 19:52 ThomasC: Having an entire chapter on Wine might be a bit much. We'd like to keep it a 'getting started' guide so it doesn't get too large. 19:53 you must write what is necessary for the users to understand how wine works 19:53 Alright. Another idea i had (if this one was blew out of the water) was create a tiny "enhanced" manual that would contain Wine on Ubuntu, LuBuntu, and Kubuntu. 19:54 I can create it an compile it off-bzr locally. 19:54 ThomasC: So a short, self-contained guide for Wine? 19:54 ThomasC, of course you can always publish a manual on Wine yourself 19:54 That is correct. But we could leave the basics in the manual, possibly. 19:55 "Getting started with Wine in Ubuntu 13.10" - sounds workable to me, but I'd suggest you keep the sources and tools within the Ubuntu Manual project, just create a separate PDF. 19:55 Yes, the basics in the manual are fine 19:55 ThomasC: That's a possibility. 19:55 Ill make an entirely new folder then. 19:55 and put it up in a revision 19:56 At one point we'd discussed having spin-off guides. For example, an installation guide, a Wine guide, and so forth. 19:56 I think it is a completely different story to start publishing separate manuals on special subjects 19:56 But we've never gotten around to actually doing it. 19:56 hannie: I agree. 19:57 I think that each guide would need to have its own authors, editors, etc. 19:57 Shall we leave this for later? I think we have discussed enough for the moment 19:57 I mean, you don't have to publish it with the Ubuntu manual, its just a proposition of an idea. 19:57 and yes. 19:57 If there are no more questions, I will close the meeting 19:57 I'm done. 19:57 #endmeeting Generated by MeetBot 0.1.5 (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology)