20:00:11 <MasterComputer> #startmeeting SII general meeting
20:00:11 <meetingology> Meeting started Sat Mar  3 20:00:11 2012 UTC.  The chair is MasterComputer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
20:00:11 <meetingology> 
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20:00:29 <MasterComputer> #topic Founding a Robotics Division
20:00:51 <Artir> Yeah, nobody expected the Artirian Inquisition. xD
20:01:14 <MasterComputer> Right, can I have a show of hands from everyone here, dears
20:01:19 <MasterComputer> ?
20:01:20 <Artir> o/
20:01:24 <Gentoolx> o/
20:01:25 <phillw> o/
20:01:33 <MasterComputer> JChapman?
20:01:35 * Silverlion only is here for counceling if needed
20:01:39 <MasterComputer> Coz_?
20:01:49 <MasterComputer> anyone else?
20:01:49 <JChapman> \o/ \o/ \o/
20:01:59 <phillw> benonsoftware: If so I may be 15-20 minutes late
20:02:01 <MasterComputer> ....note to self, keep JChapman away from vodka.
20:02:37 <MasterComputer> AlexAv, abhinav_signh?
20:02:45 <MasterComputer> SonicMatrix?
20:02:47 <MasterComputer> Anyone else?
20:02:53 * MasterComputer is still wondering where Jacky is...
20:02:57 <Coz_> Yes? sorry, I haven't been paying attention.
20:03:15 <MasterComputer> No worries, Coz_
20:03:20 <phillw> MasterComputer: I'm sure he said he could not make it?
20:03:31 <MasterComputer> then he said he could via library computer, phillw
20:03:44 <MasterComputer> Now, I think I've set the topic correctly...
20:03:59 <phillw> MasterComputer: okes, well you can start with the intro and hope he catches up
20:04:21 <MasterComputer> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mE2bYuxl-z6eAVcbi2ERocMGZOs31g6365_9j23VkgY/edit
20:04:22 <phillw> MasterComputer: use  #topic new topic
20:04:29 <MasterComputer> there's the agenda, folks
20:04:38 <MasterComputer> #topic Should we start a robotics division?
20:05:19 <MasterComputer> oh, everyone, do have a quick glance at the agenda, don't worry, we'll get to the really interesting bits soon...
20:05:47 <MasterComputer> #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mE2bYuxl-z6eAVcbi2ERocMGZOs31g6365_9j23VkgY/edit
20:05:54 <Gentoolx> I don't think that Robotics section is very feasible now.
20:06:02 <Artir> At this point, I wouldn't start a robotic division. When we have 50+ people in the channel (or a x2 increase in community)
20:06:06 <Artir> then we can think about it.
20:06:36 <MasterComputer> I am aware that such a division requires a large amount of physical resources, hence why I thought we should discuss it now, as it would take some time to do such a thing
20:06:54 <MasterComputer> and we have had a number of people more interested in hardware then anything else pass through here, after all
20:07:20 <MasterComputer> Artir, why do you think a larger community is needed for that, my friend?
20:07:31 <Artir> because we'd have more people to make another team
20:07:41 <Gentoolx> Indeed.
20:07:43 <benonsoftware> Hi all
20:07:47 <benonsoftware> Sorry I'm late
20:07:50 <MasterComputer> Phillw, what are your thoughts?
20:07:57 <MasterComputer> no worries, benonsoftware.
20:08:08 * MasterComputer sticks a happy octopus on JChapman's head.
20:08:11 <Artir> by the way, what's the state of the latest winty code?
20:08:11 * benonsoftware slept in a little
20:08:21 <MasterComputer> Stablizing, Artir, I think
20:08:40 <MasterComputer> I cant remember exactly, but I do think we're on track for a March 21st release for 0.1 of Winty
20:08:45 <MasterComputer> but we are disgressing
20:09:00 <MasterComputer> #topic How do we handle our public launch?
20:09:15 <Gentoolx> MasterComputer: Wintermute? Not SpeechControl?
20:09:44 <MasterComputer> This month, folks, we're supposed to be publically launching the Institute, and we do need to sit down and brainstorm ways of getting our name out there into the public eye
20:09:46 <phillw> I believe it is for SpeechControl
20:10:12 <phillw> MasterComputer: yes, with something more than a proof of concept?
20:10:33 <MasterComputer> from what I've been told, we are on track for a Speech Control release later this month
20:10:52 <MasterComputer> Ideally, we should launch with Speech Control's first public release, no?
20:11:02 <Gentoolx> Perhaps.
20:11:28 <Coz_> Besides the website, interested parties should be contacted, things like bloggers, magazines, news websites and the like. I think that PR should be started as soon as possible.
20:11:42 <Gentoolx> It depends what will we have in the SpeechControl.
20:11:43 <MasterComputer> nothing is set in stone yet, so we can still move the date if need be
20:12:04 <Silverlion> phillw: pm pls
20:12:53 <Coz_> I do not expect most of the contacted parties to respond, but anything we can get is good.
20:13:10 <Gentoolx> Coz_: As soon as possible but not earlier - too early start can broke our reliability.
20:13:16 <MasterComputer> well, I would say we should only contact them when Speech Control is ready to launch
20:13:29 <Gentoolx> Yup.
20:13:41 * Silverlion raises his hand
20:13:47 <Coz_> As early as possible is as soon as we have something to show.
20:13:48 <MasterComputer> we shouldnt work on estimates and maybes for this, we need a concrete date
20:13:55 <MasterComputer> yes, Silverlion?
20:14:03 <phillw> MasterComputer: I'd rather all the sections "behind the scenes" like wiki, forum, secure IRC are in place and have good information before we go public.
20:14:22 <MasterComputer> also a good point, phillw
20:14:25 <Gentoolx> MasterComputer: The problem is that we can't reliably contact with Jacky.
20:14:39 <Gentoolx> Without this it is hard to predict our progress and set dates.
20:14:43 <Silverlion> as you all may know i have quite experience on the field of PR and established connections twice to get PR set up for the Institute.
20:14:43 <MasterComputer> I know, gentoolx.
20:14:57 <MasterComputer> We are aware, Silverlion.
20:15:32 <Coz_> I wasn't =P I'm new in this.
20:15:45 <Silverlion> phillw and I have been able to establish quite a success in bringing Lubuntu in public speech by blogging and putting news on to our contacts
20:16:00 <MasterComputer> good! :D
20:16:42 <MasterComputer> moving onto the next topic, if everyone's finished?
20:16:50 <Silverlion> I dont know how much my word counts in here but if I had something to decide on here I'd try to addapt that one
20:16:57 <Coz_> I'll be back in a moment.
20:17:38 <phillw> MasterComputer: as you know, myself and Silverlion do still co-ordinate on stuff.
20:18:05 <MasterComputer> I know, phillw
20:18:45 <phillw> and yourself and Jacky can out vote me, But to launch without having the I's dotted and T's crossed would be suicide. We did once before, we cannot do it again
20:19:23 <phillw> JChapman: sorry about that... I'll go ask what happened.....
20:19:42 <MasterComputer> phillw, our previous launch was Jacky trying to build up enthusiasm without consulting me
20:19:48 <MasterComputer> and what happened with JChapman, phillw?
20:19:54 * Silverlion finally sees his words falling into the right ears
20:20:02 <phillw> MasterComputer: getting him a cloak
20:20:05 <MasterComputer> ah right
20:20:12 <MasterComputer> Now, next topic
20:20:20 <MasterComputer> #topic how do we grow our community?
20:20:39 <MasterComputer> Gentoolx, dear, would you care to describe the small problem the Development Division has been having?
20:20:52 <MasterComputer> in regards to total developers?
20:20:57 <JChapman> any cheap advertising maybe gumtree
20:21:14 <Silverlion> JChapman: my words ;)
20:21:15 <JChapman> in our county
20:21:27 <Coz_> Back.
20:22:02 <MasterComputer> true, true
20:22:07 <MasterComputer> and wb Coz_
20:22:21 <phillw> o/
20:22:27 <JChapman> maybe approach a few of he bigger websites maybe even youtube and get some links to our website put up and about the net
20:22:30 <Gentoolx> Briefly, the problem was that new members were left alone and this discouraged them.
20:22:37 <MasterComputer> thus, we lost them
20:22:40 <benonsoftware> I'll be back in 5 minutes, just ping me if I'm needed for anything
20:22:46 <MasterComputer> okies
20:23:04 * MasterComputer can't remember if Coz_ is a developer
20:23:10 <Gentoolx> We need more active connection between members of the team.
20:23:20 <MasterComputer> what do you suggest, gentoolx?
20:23:21 <Coz_> Not yet. I mean, I have only downloaded and compiled most of the code, but I haven't actually programmed anything.
20:24:14 <Coz_> I did talk to Jacky, and I'm waiting until he uploads code or his internet issues get better.
20:24:42 <MasterComputer> JChapman, that would be very costly...
20:25:00 <MasterComputer> Coz_ do feel free to poke Gentoolx about any code issues, and poke me about any of the theory behind it
20:25:37 <MasterComputer> Artir? Do you have any ideas in regards how to grow our community and keep it active?
20:25:43 <Coz_> Gentoolx: I have used mailing lists with good sucess in the past, for communication between devs.
20:25:53 <Coz_> MasterComputer: thanks.
20:26:00 * benonsoftware is back
20:26:03 <Gentoolx> MasterComputer: Well, besides good documentation and nice introductory articles on the wiki some members of the team could do something like mentoring.
20:26:10 <JChapman> not necessarily  an email simply asking a few places maybe even giffgaff they would its only an email worth a try anyway
20:26:16 <MasterComputer> I think Jacky mentioned that he wanted ML's up
20:26:21 <MasterComputer> you have a point, JChapman
20:26:30 * phillw it is the egg & chicken. Until and unless we have infrastructure for SII linking to itself internally and provide a professional 1st visit, then any attempts to garner more devs will fail. The web is full, as MasterComputer, of failed projects. We have to show we are not yet another one.
20:26:35 <Artir> maybe a forum?
20:26:38 <phillw> not for us - but to others.
20:26:49 <phillw> Artir: we are getting one :)
20:26:51 <Artir> its more handy than mailing lists, imho
20:26:56 <Artir> and easier to see for newcomers
20:27:00 <Artir> (and more organized)
20:27:16 <MasterComputer> I know, phillw, but we have had periods of luck...which then soured.
20:27:20 <Artir> new people could just come, register and post here and there and maybe become team members later on
20:27:47 <phillw> Artir: That is why I asked that any launch be put off until we are ready to go out screaming and shouting "WE ARE HERE"
20:28:00 <Silverlion> People, we cry around here that we do not get people to the project ... It would cost me two minutes, then we would have akgraner & bkerensa - two of the most important people in news area around here.  They both have pledged to help ... They just need the information!
20:28:45 <JChapman> well giffgaff have a hierachy scheme where the more you help out other people and solve problems you can work your way up to admin and sometimes be hire for maney at the end of it
20:28:48 <MasterComputer> it's developers we're short on, Silverlion. PR people would be very handy as well, but if we have nothing to show, then there's no point in PR, no?
20:29:18 <Silverlion> yeah. but what about saying that we need some help?
20:29:18 <phillw> Until & Unless, the wiki, forum etc is up and running it is suicide to launch for either members, show our wares or ask for devs.
20:29:25 <Silverlion> ????????????????????????????????????
20:29:58 <MasterComputer> good question, Silverlion
20:30:02 <MasterComputer> and good point, phillw
20:30:33 <Silverlion> well then phillw ... what are you waiting for then *hides*
20:31:01 <MasterComputer> I would suggest we finish implementing the infrastructure, and then, Silverlion, make your calls and get us some devs.
20:31:37 <MasterComputer> oh, by the way, I am working on a 'Welcome to the S.I.I' PDF for new members, hopefully this should be helpful to hopeful members.
20:31:54 <MasterComputer> thoughts, people?
20:31:56 <Coz_> What would be the standard path to become a developer?
20:32:06 * phillw I did not change the topic.... but it is good to see that people realise that the two are totally dependant on each other.
20:32:31 <MasterComputer> well, to answer that question, Coz_...
20:32:32 <phillw> Coz_: I mentioned it on the admin lead in.
20:32:56 <phillw> but psych and dev have their own answers
20:32:58 <MasterComputer> #topic What should our membership policy be?
20:33:24 <Coz_> phillw: Admin lead in?
20:33:27 <MasterComputer> Coz_ your more or less considered an S.I.I developer if you work on it's code and show some level of commitment.
20:33:51 <JChapman> a minimum age would be a start
20:33:51 <MasterComputer> Gentoolx has been here for around a year, now. Jacky was the first developer
20:34:07 <Gentoolx> Coz_: Speaking shortly: make some commit proposals that will be accepted.
20:34:39 <Gentoolx> Coz_: Of course if you don't know what needs an improvement you can ask.
20:34:58 <Gentoolx> As I see Jacky commited new, more concrete TODO file.
20:35:01 <MasterComputer> fair point, JChapman, though I would like to add to that it should really only apply to people in positions which can do us a lot of damage
20:35:04 <MasterComputer> IE: Administration
20:35:25 <Artir> regarding that PDF, we should have another two for dev and psych/design
20:35:33 <phillw> Coz_: you apply for a team, have a chat with them - then you either get a yes, or a no.
20:35:34 <Artir> description, how to get in.
20:35:52 <MasterComputer> I was thinking of it being a more of "Which Division should I choose to join?" section in the PDF, Artir
20:36:01 <MasterComputer> but, the thing is, what makes a member, a member?
20:36:30 <MasterComputer> what does one need to do to get, say, trust enough to have an account on our Google Apps and an email address from us?
20:36:34 <Artir> someone who.. collaborates with the project in any way the community appreciates, could be
20:36:55 <MasterComputer> Could you elaborate, Artir?
20:36:59 <JChapman> have a quarantine area for new recruits maybe
20:37:19 <MasterComputer> you mean a sort of trial period, JChapman?
20:37:29 <JChapman> yes exactly
20:37:47 <MasterComputer> Hmmm
20:37:48 <phillw> that is a problem, we have seen it fail - very badly.
20:37:53 <Artir> for example, if someone comes in, commits some code, does some design, helps with the website or any task benefiting the SII, would be a member
20:38:17 <MasterComputer> then what (if anything), Artir, differates a member from an occasional poster?
20:38:18 <Artir> but in order to get the sii mail, that'd be like a second tier
20:38:32 <MasterComputer> I am thinking, perhaps we should have a system similar to Ubuntu membership?
20:38:44 <MasterComputer> How does that work, for the record, phillw? (As you have one...)
20:38:48 <Artir> like continued work for X time gets you a membership
20:38:59 <Artir> plus a community voting
20:39:16 <MasterComputer> true.
20:39:38 <MasterComputer> Coz_ can we talk in PM when we're done here, my friend?
20:39:40 * phillw regardless of the AI side, it will be quite a long while before Wintermute can sort the wheat from the chaff. For the email side, we have had rules enforced upon us to maintain the googel-edu system. I see no reason not to use them globally.
20:39:59 <MasterComputer> can you elaborate, phillw?
20:40:21 * MasterComputer thinks JChapman is going to kill him for smoking so much
20:40:55 <Coz_> MasterComputer: Ok.
20:41:15 <JChapman> we should assign a couple of people to be admins over that part and look at there work and decifer who would be a threat to the organisation before they get access to an email
20:41:57 <MasterComputer> the trouble, JChapman, as we learnt with Micheal...is who admins the admins?
20:42:05 <MasterComputer> :P
20:42:38 <phillw> MasterComputer: Sorry, I was on a support ... but similar to Ubuntu Membership - just without a 'Council', it failed Ubuntu Beginners Team totally. We do not have a council, we are in touch with each other. when the person from one of three primary areas decides that they are read, then the other 2 will already have interacted with them.
20:43:01 <JChapman> possibly chat logs between them to look for teamwork and attitude to work
20:43:03 <MasterComputer> Artir, can you also PM me after this meeting, my friend?
20:43:10 <Artir> ok
20:43:23 <MasterComputer> That could consitute an invasion of privacy, JChapman
20:43:38 <MasterComputer> which, thanks to our multinational nature, is a complete headache to handle
20:43:41 <MasterComputer> am I right, phillw?
20:43:56 <JChapman> only if they haddent accepted to it before hand
20:43:57 * phillw I have seen two failed models of each extreme, but taking the best from each - IMHO, is the way forward.
20:44:30 <MasterComputer> agreed, phillw. It's just that we need to take our middle-ground approach and put it into stone
20:44:31 <Silverlion> we do have a forum dont we?
20:44:40 <MasterComputer> Jason is working on it, Silverlion
20:45:02 <MasterComputer> #topic How do we get funding?
20:45:08 <Silverlion> as soon as we have it "in stone" as you say. we could set sections like bulletin boards
20:45:09 <phillw> MasterComputer: I personally would block anyone who had not actually taken the the time to create a launchpad address and validate a Code of Conduct.
20:45:24 <phillw> It is not perfect, but it keeps the spammers away :)
20:45:38 <MasterComputer> Ok, yes, I know, we havent launched, but I would like us to look at ways of crowdsourcing funding.
20:45:54 <MasterComputer> the servers and projects dont pay for themselves, I'm afraid
20:46:07 <MasterComputer> and we can only go so far donating our own money to the cause
20:46:17 <phillw> I'll elt you all discuss that. i can run the server costs.
20:46:44 <MasterComputer> phillw, I would prefer that, if we had alternate ways of doing so, you didn't put a strain on your own wallet
20:46:46 * Silverlion keeps quiet for the moment
20:46:48 <MasterComputer> hence this topic
20:47:07 <MasterComputer> So, how would everyone feel about a kickstarter page for us?
20:49:05 <MasterComputer> Artir? Gentoolx?
20:49:29 <Coz_> Does anyone have experience with funding?
20:49:50 <MasterComputer> I have some experience, but not with crowdsourcing
20:50:01 <Coz_> Better than none.
20:50:13 <MasterComputer> Well, is anyone against the idea of funding?
20:50:28 <MasterComputer> We are F/OSS after all, and money+F/OSS upsets some people....
20:50:28 <Artir> Atm the only expense is the server we have the site in, right?
20:50:52 <MasterComputer> true, but we are expanding, Artir, and sadly some of those are costly.
20:50:53 <Artir> and I remember we had a paypal account for the sii
20:51:03 <Artir> don't know if any money got in there
20:51:08 <Coz_> I think it's a good idea, as long as the expenses are detailed and people understand that we can't guarantee results.
20:51:23 <phillw> Artir: is that account registered in USA?
20:51:38 <MasterComputer> I would like to actually have the Institute offer it's developers (Gentoolx, Coz_) a paying job, rather then a hobby.
20:51:45 <Artir> well, if we are to launch a funding campaign, it'd have to be backed by a proposal: i.e. it's to buy new hardware, ice cream, wathever
20:51:49 <MasterComputer> phillw, that was my personal account
20:52:00 * benonsoftware votes for ice cream :D
20:52:04 <Artir> xD
20:52:14 <phillw> MasterComputer: which you cannot use
20:52:32 <MasterComputer> myself and JChapman have been working on a design for ATLAS, which we will cover soon
20:52:35 <Artir> if wintermute or any softwre isn't able to run smoothly in our computers, we may consider getting new metal
20:52:38 <MasterComputer> now we cant, no, phillw
20:52:40 <JChapman> i scream for ice cream
20:52:42 <Artir> but until then, we can do fine with what we have.
20:52:51 <MasterComputer> JChapman, I'll scream at you in a minute...
20:52:56 <phillw> Now, if everyone would shut up for a couple of minutes, I can explain how it has to work.
20:53:06 * MasterComputer listens
20:53:13 <phillw> but you must promise no interruptions until I finish
20:53:22 <MasterComputer> nothing from me, I promise.
20:53:27 <JChapman> promice
20:53:42 <Coz_> benonsoftware: Well, I do like icecream.
20:53:58 <phillw> thesii.org is going to be put forward for trade mark in USA
20:54:19 <phillw> thesii.org already has google.edu status
20:54:44 <phillw> thesii,org has Rule 503 in USA
20:55:07 <phillw> putting any monies into the USA system really messes things up
20:55:32 <phillw> putting monies into a UK account does not have such problems
20:56:00 <phillw> to get the UK account going I need the trade-mark details from USA
20:56:16 <phillw> They have been applied for and will be granted
20:56:42 <phillw> Jay is just recovering from a near fatal car-crash
20:57:24 <phillw> Both he, and Derrick (who you will very rarely see) are concentrating on Jay getting better.
20:57:34 <phillw> Be patient.
20:57:47 <phillw> And now, you may reply
20:57:59 <MasterComputer> thank you, phillw
20:58:07 <MasterComputer> Jason's op is today, no?
20:58:13 <phillw> yes
20:58:42 <MasterComputer> And also, quick question, couldnt we get around that problem by having a bank account in both the US and UK?
20:59:08 <MasterComputer> or would that present the same problems
20:59:09 <MasterComputer> ?
20:59:28 <phillw> MasterComputer: no, if we have USA getting donations from a company would remove our 503 status
20:59:52 <MasterComputer> I see, so any finaicial side must be kept out of the US?
20:59:56 <phillw> That could possibly include
21:00:04 <phillw> my parents company.
21:00:15 <phillw> MasterComputer: yes, it must.
21:00:42 <MasterComputer> and finally, phillw, could we give money to Jacky via the UK bank account?
21:01:02 <phillw> MasterComputer: we can.
21:01:06 <MasterComputer> and he send us money (or a US company doing so) without problems, so long as the bank account is in the UK?
21:01:38 <phillw> I'd have to check on how it would go USA --> UK
21:01:50 <MasterComputer> Okies
21:02:00 <MasterComputer> #topic Project BEAST
21:02:00 <phillw> It is not something I thought would happen any time soon :)
21:02:12 <MasterComputer> Okies, boys and girls, now we get to the fun part; new things!
21:02:23 <MasterComputer> Artir, JChapman, everyone else still alive, I trust?
21:02:46 <phillw> o/
21:02:49 <JChapman> just about
21:02:52 <Artir> o/
21:03:01 <Gentoolx> o/
21:03:22 <Coz_> Not zombie yet.
21:03:25 <MasterComputer> goody
21:03:27 <Artir> Project BEAST in a nutshell: get a pimped up server, was it?
21:03:33 <MasterComputer> Nope, Artir
21:03:42 <MasterComputer> BEAST is...simple
21:03:54 <Artir> whoops
21:03:55 <Artir> that was ATLAS
21:04:05 <MasterComputer> basically put, BEAST is a way for a machine to understand and manipulate emotions
21:04:53 <Artir> I see those projects dependant on Wintermute, which currently is quire incomplete.. so I'd rather wait before starting something new.
21:05:09 <MasterComputer> This is just simply a notifcation of what to expect in the future, dear
21:05:27 <MasterComputer> Next up is Project PHANTOM, which is verrryyy interesting
21:05:36 <MasterComputer> and something I was going to task Robotics to deal with, but meh
21:06:04 <MasterComputer> it's a large string of equipment which is rather...unqiue....
21:06:25 <MasterComputer> #topic Any Other Business
21:06:40 <phillw> MasterComputer: so they are on "would like to do" list? At present, let us concentrate on the "must do list"?
21:06:50 <MasterComputer> I would advise you all have a read through of the project proposals when you have a minute.
21:06:59 <MasterComputer> Now, is there anything else?
21:07:12 <MasterComputer> Artir, dear, where have you been? You keeping wandering off...
21:07:39 <phillw> MasterComputer: yes, the chair posts up the meeting notes so people can find them.
21:07:44 <Artir> I kinda lost my interest, as I economics replaced my time for SII stuff...
21:08:02 <phillw> 2nd decide when next meeting is.
21:08:05 <Artir> But I've been reading the emails and that
21:08:15 <MasterComputer> think you'll regain your interest, dear?
21:08:26 <Artir> well, not at the beginning since the last  mail reconfiguration, seems the forwarding got broken
21:08:28 <Artir> hopely
21:08:46 <MasterComputer> And yes, last thing, Coz_, Artir, AlexAv, JChapman, Gentoolx, Phillw...when would the next meeting be convienant?
21:09:09 <phillw> hit us on the mailing list :)
21:09:10 <Artir> in two weeks, same hour?
21:09:19 <MasterComputer> Good idea, Artir.
21:09:21 <Coz_> Artir: that seems fine with me.
21:09:23 <phillw> +1
21:09:25 <Gentoolx> I agree.
21:09:35 * benonsoftware should be able to make it
21:09:35 <MasterComputer> Goody, see you all again in two weeks.
21:09:39 <MasterComputer> #endmeeting