== Meeting information == * #xubuntu-devel Meeting, 05 Jan at 22:00 — 00:12 UTC * Full logs at [[http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2018/xubuntu-devel.2018-01-05-22.00.log.html]] == Meeting summary == === Open action items === The discussion about "Open action items" started at 22:08. * ''ACTION:'' : bluesabre and ochosi to get on with it and include xfpm 1.6 === Discussion === The discussion about "Discussion" started at 22:12. * '''Artful Point 1 iso''' (22:13) * '''18.04 wallpaper contest''' (22:18) === Schedule next meeting === The discussion about "Schedule next meeting" started at 22:27. === Discussion #2 === The discussion about "Discussion #2" started at 22:27. * '''Xfpm''' (22:44) * ''ACTION:'' bluesabre JackFrost to package and upload xfpm * '''Other Xfce components/releases''' (22:46) * ''LINK:'' https://git.xfce.org/apps/xfce4-taskmanager/ * '''gtk-theme-config status quo''' (23:14) === blueprints status === The discussion about "blueprints status" started at 23:28. * '''devel blueprint''' (23:29) * ''LINK:'' https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-indicator-plugin/2.3.3-1 * ''ACTION:'' bluesabre to reach out to pidgin devs regarding system themes * ''ACTION:'' flocculant to mail list(s) re 17.04 EOL and draft blog post == Vote results == == Action items, by person == * bluesabre * : bluesabre and ochosi to get on with it and include xfpm 1.6 * bluesabre JackFrost to package and upload xfpm * bluesabre to reach out to pidgin devs regarding system themes * flocculant * flocculant to mail list(s) re 17.04 EOL and draft blog post * JackFrost * bluesabre JackFrost to package and upload xfpm * ochosi * : bluesabre and ochosi to get on with it and include xfpm 1.6 == Done items == * (none) == People present (lines said) == * flocculant (168) * ochosi (151) * knome (34) * bluesabre (31) * JackFrost (15) * pleia2 (11) * meetingology (8) * krytarik (1) * ubottu (1) == Full Log == 22:00 #startmeeting 22:00 Meeting started Fri Jan 5 22:00:36 2018 UTC. The chair is flocculant. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. 22:00 22:00 Available commands: action commands idea info link nick 22:00 so then - who's here :) 22:00 o/ 22:01 * flocculant waits for tumbleweed :p 22:04 o/ 22:05 we can go for it still if we think it's worth it - if not I'll just do an Announcement and finish :p 22:06 * flocculant waits some more 22:06 still on my way, i'll be around in about 30 (sry) 22:06 can postpone for 30 if that helps 22:07 o/ 22:08 I'll move on then 22:08 #topic Open action items 22:08 bbiab -> 22:09 (sry, don't irc and drive) 22:09 yup - we'll still be going perhaps 22:09 I know that one too :D 22:09 sure 22:09 bluesabre to change seed for GNOME/MATE apps transition before FDF - that's done 22:09 flocculant to send a proposal on improving panel configuration - that isn't 22:09 there's an xfce related task for me, let's talk later 22:10 and I'm not sure I've got time to look tbh - nor sure I've the energy to deal with the inertia 22:10 regarding panel conf that is 22:10 yea - I know 22:11 bluesabre and ochosi to get on with it and include xfpm 1.6 - not sure what the status is on that, from what ochosi said in channel recently I'm assuming not, so 22:11 #action : bluesabre and ochosi to get on with it and include xfpm 1.6 22:11 * meetingology : bluesabre and ochosi to get on with it and include xfpm 1.6 22:11 that's action items done 22:12 #topic Discussion 22:13 nothing on the agenda, but ... 22:13 maybe discuss it all under other then 22:13 get the bureaucratic things done 22:13 #subtopic Artful Point 1 iso 22:14 I've been waiting to see when this would appear 22:14 we've now got respun iso's to test to cover lp 1734147 22:14 Launchpad bug 1734147 in linux (Ubuntu) "corrupted BIOS due to Intel SPI bug in kernel" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1734147 22:15 -release are planning to release next Thursday, 25th January 22:15 great 22:15 by the end of the weekend I will have mailed list(s) about that and done facebook 22:15 if others can do g+ and twitter then that'll be great 22:16 sure thing 22:16 thanks :) 22:17 pleia2: just a channel ping - or would you like an e-mail? 22:17 channel ping is fine 22:17 k 22:18 #subtopic 18.04 wallpaper contest 22:18 knome: you want to repeat what you just said in ot :p 22:19 oh - didn't see that action hiding at the bottom of the meeting page :p 22:19 yes, so i need one more testing day to make sure the changes in the plugin work as expected 22:19 after that we're free to open the contest right away 22:19 the announcement blog article and all other content is ready, thanks to flocculant and others 22:19 and I can volunteer to test stuff as required 22:20 yup 22:20 it also needs to be a day when i have time and energy ;) 22:20 but it will be sooner than later 22:20 yea ofc 22:20 if you can do this weekend, I'll be around, but work gets busy for me next week 22:22 weekend is hard, but let's see 22:22 maybe later on sunday my time 22:22 like 20UTC or so 22:22 ok :) 22:22 hm, that might be airport time 22:22 ah we'll see 22:22 I can be around then if you need knome 22:22 well it's jiggly 22:22 i'd like a few people, but i'll announce 22:23 :) 22:23 anything else on that now? 22:24 nope 22:24 thanks for getting that prepped, knome \o/ 22:24 it's pretty much all ready except that testing 22:24 well, on announcish side 22:24 it can now hold any number of contests at the same time 22:24 that's cool 22:24 and archives neatly 22:24 :) 22:24 so that's improvements 22:26 ochosi wanted to go through a couple of things I believe, so I'll schedule and then we can resume 22:27 #topic Schedule next meeting 22:27 next up on the merry-go-round is ... 22:27 bluesabre \o/ 22:27 #topic Discussion #2 22:27 winner 22:27 :) 22:28 :) 22:29 everyone can now wander off to the foyer for some light refreshment - or the rest of their day - while we patiently see if Simon makes it here :) 22:30 :) 22:31 * pleia2 beer o'clock 22:32 :) 22:41 beer o'clock already..? 22:41 east coast this week ;) 22:41 hi ochosi :) 22:42 #chair ochosi 22:42 Current chairs: flocculant ochosi 22:42 not completely sure what you wanted to discuss - only half read them - so #topic away in your own time 22:43 so regarding xfpm, i've done my part and fixed the concerns that people mentioned and released 1.6.1 (which is a stable release, the 1.5 series was unstable/dev) 22:43 so what has to be done is packaging and uploading 22:44 so that action would be for bluesabre and Unit193 (aka JackFrost in the season) 22:44 #subtopic Xfpm 22:45 #action bluesabre JackFrost to package and upload xfpm 22:45 * meetingology bluesabre JackFrost to package and upload xfpm 22:45 like that :p 22:45 so there were some issues, namely xfpm support for desktops 22:45 and that has been implemented 22:45 plus i went through buzgilla and cleaned up a lot of reports and bugs 22:45 so 1.6.x should be fine 22:46 anyway 22:46 let's move one 22:46 on 22:46 ochosi: blueprints? 22:46 #subtopic Other Xfce components/releases 22:46 ok :p 22:47 i've done another release of the panel (4.12.2) and i've been discussing another release of xfce4-settings with bluesabre 22:47 both will improve multi-monitor handling 22:47 so i think we should include them 22:47 I'd agree 22:47 for xfce4-settings, some testing may help 22:47 the patch has already been merged to the 4.12 branch 22:47 but it needs to be put in our staging PPA 22:47 many of the issues I read on 'forums' are multi-monitor 22:48 yeah, both of those patches help 22:48 one (panel) helps to keep the panel on the primary monitor, which you can define in xfce4-settings (xfce4-display-settings, to be exact) 22:48 ochosi: staging? that's now 'artful qa' 22:48 or do you mean experimental? 22:49 which is what I have 22:49 and the other one is in xfce4-settings and tries to keep displays in their position when disconnecting and reconnecting them 22:49 sry, i always get confused with the PPAs these days... 22:49 :) 22:49 ochosi: I remeber the aging bit in staging and know I don't use it :D 22:50 aging bit? 22:50 st aging 22:50 ah lol 22:50 sry, i'm slooooow 22:50 beer o'clock and all 22:50 :) 22:51 so anyway, for the time being, we would need to package at least the settings update as a patch 22:51 debian patch that is 22:51 and put it in the experimental/aging PPAs 22:51 :) 22:51 and for the panel there's yet another patch that knome really wants and it's nice to have and not critical 22:52 it basically sorts the separator up at the top of the list along with "launcher" in the panel's "add item" dialog 22:52 i already pushed it to the 4.13 branch and may also push it to the 4.12 branch if there's going to be another maintenance release 22:52 i have to check if there is more to backport 22:52 I have a mental note: experimental is where I push all the (fun) things, staging is what I upload to every time I upload something to unit193/xfce (Well...Almost.) 22:54 regarding the other components, here's what i see coming up: 22:54 * potentially another xfce4-notifyd maintenance release 22:54 funny that knome wants seperator at the top of the list - I remove them from panel completely unless asked to check something 22:54 * potentially a xfce4-taskmanager gtk3-only release (probably not many additional features) 22:55 flocculant: well the argument makes sense as it's one of the few plugins that you may wanna use multiple times (same as launcher) 22:55 ^ what ochosi said 22:55 yea - I can understand the argument for it 22:55 * potentially a clipman maintenance release 22:56 * if needed, another xfpm maintenance release 22:56 quite a lot then 22:56 nice :) 22:56 well that's just what i see coming, if we need more i need to knw 22:56 know 22:56 so i also wanted to bring up this topic so we can discuss what we want or need to focus on 22:57 i've been more active again upstream recently so i can try to get the most out of it for 18.04 22:58 7 weeks to feature freeze I think 22:59 ochosi: these things I'm assuming you'd want testing? 22:59 mostly for taskman, the rest would be just maintenance/bugfix, so nothing too critical there 22:59 ok 22:59 but much depends on my own free time/energy 22:59 taskman doesn't seem to hard for testing 23:00 and yea - understood :) 23:00 yeah, it's fairly easy 23:00 libxfce4ui also needs a new version uploaded/tested 23:00 ochosi: is taskman actually available git? 23:00 although again, no dramatic changes 23:00 sure 23:00 https://git.xfce.org/apps/xfce4-taskmanager/ 23:00 ok - I can grab that 23:01 i also have a development branch somewhere, where i dropped all the gtk2 ifdefs 23:01 and libxfce4ui there is one pending at the ppa 23:01 waiting for buildfarm to start I'm assuming 23:01 I'm running that one now. 23:02 ochosi: well if there is a specific one you'd rather I used - point me to it and I will ofc 23:02 yeah, it should be fine, but we should also try to get it in 23:02 flocculant: will do as soon as i've cleaned it up. i had a branch with CSD/headerbar (which will make some ppl in here whine) and gtk3-only, i think that's where i want to continue 23:02 okey doke 23:02 plus i'm wondering if we need other graphs there 23:03 or improved graphs 23:03 but we'll see 23:03 ping me when you want me to take a gander at it 23:03 kewl, will do 23:04 ok, that's that subtopic from my side 23:04 JackFrost: anything to add? 23:04 anything you think needs updates? 23:04 ochosi: did you think more on that tooltips thing on taskmanager? 23:04 I don't know what I'd be adding. 23:04 an #action 23:04 :D 23:04 or an #info 23:04 flocculant: that'd be one thing i could/would fix, not sure if i'd do it in the current stable series 23:05 right 23:05 it has been like this for ages tbh 23:05 and the UI ways to fix this are not very gtk2-ish 23:05 but we'll see 23:05 maybe i can come up with a simple idea 23:05 the main thing is i want to avoid i18n 23:05 yea I guess so - it just hit me the other day when the mouse got left when I went to work and the tooltip was still there hours later :D 23:05 and fixing it without adding new strings sucks 23:05 :) 23:06 at least probably 23:06 but we'll see 23:06 want to move on ? 23:06 floor's still your one :p 23:06 JackFrost: dunno, if you feel there's a problem somewhere or bugs (like you raised concerns against xfpm 1.6)... 23:07 i myself need to make the jump to 18.04, i am lacking overview a little of what we have already changed... 23:07 Yeah but that was a long time ago, so you either fixed them, couldn't fix them, or ignored them. :P 23:07 things like xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin vs. indicator-sound 23:07 IIRC, one of the fixes was in elementary-xfce-icon-theme. 23:08 and whether to add xfce4-notification-plugin to the panel by default 23:08 mmm 23:08 JackFrost: alrighty, that's fine then. just want to avoid things falling through the cracks 23:08 or clipman-plugin 23:08 then I might try and find energy to do what I'd been actioned to do if you're going to look at panel 23:08 but that may be knome's topic from before 23:08 xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin*, and yeah there's nothing wrong with that one, less fragile than xfce4-indicator-plugin+indicator-application. 23:09 yeah, xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin to 23:09 too 23:09 is all of that in our default session already? 23:09 ochosi: can we make that an #action (panel that is) 23:10 Yes, I believe so. 23:10 flocculant: you mean the panel config? 23:10 yea 23:10 knome: is that what you wanted to discuss earlier..? 23:10 I was going to look at one thing - but if it's more general then it can be more than 1 person :p 23:11 yeah, just want to make sure now 23:11 :) 23:11 if we're adding things - then the thing I was ignoring is more useful maybe :) 23:12 we should be replacing xfce4-indicator-plugin and indicator-application with xfce4-statusnotifier-plugin 23:12 and indicator-sound with xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin 23:12 ochosi, outside the meeting, yes 23:12 and should be discussing whether to keep indicator-messages 23:13 and whether to add things like clipman or notifyd 23:13 knome: ok, then let's do that later 23:13 i'm fine with moving on then 23:13 Eh, nah don't add them. 23:13 ochosi: that's never really worked for me - but then I never use anything (other than tbird) which lived there 23:13 ochosi, and it was basically only needed between me and flocculant too :) 23:13 flocculant: Pidgin works with it, which we ship. 23:13 ochosi: move on then :) 23:14 yeah, it's pidgin and thunderbird 23:14 anyway, let's move on 23:14 JackFrost: right - 'then I never use anything' was where I was going there 23:14 i have one last topic, and then i pass the floor back to you gusy 23:14 guys 23:14 #subtopic gtk-theme-config status quo 23:14 right 23:15 so currently gtk-theme-config is broken and useless (fairly) 23:15 this stuff between you 2 I did read :p 23:15 it works ok for gtk2 but not at all reliably with gtk3 23:15 so i started an investigation into whether it can be fixed 23:15 in the generic way that it was working before 23:15 for "most themes" 23:15 i'm somewhere between 30 and 50% there 23:16 hard to judge 23:16 and i can't say what the outcome will be 23:16 but in general it's possible that we may need to drop it 23:16 it's also possible that it will be hard to rewrite until FF 23:16 and which freeze do we need to decide by? 23:16 FF I assume? 23:16 or alternatively it may only work with "some themes" and we will have to decide whether that's "enough" 23:17 the problem is that it's hard to test 23:17 mmm 23:17 point 23:17 latest FF 23:17 point is we need to keep it on our radar a bit 23:17 that's like saying that we have a text editor that sometimes works 23:17 but anyway, i will keep you updated about my progress 23:17 soory - meant I had a point :p 23:17 well it's not as critical as a text editor luckily :) 23:18 but yeah, it's a bit of a can of worms 23:18 partly due to the complexity of gtk theming 23:18 if we had something else we knew 'sometimes' worked - we'd likely ditch it - especially on something for 3 years 23:18 anyway, we'll see 23:18 yea I understood that much 23:18 just wanted to get everyone on the same page 23:18 yup 23:19 there are still quite a few open issues on all blueprints btw 23:19 that could either be the next topic or we discuss it offline and move on 23:19 worst case scenario from my pov is we lose it 'now' but it makes a triumphant return between LTS's :p 23:20 Also, I've been going with "Wait and see" with xfce4-indicator-plugin from Debian, but since it's not really part of the desktop so much anymore, I'd like to just sync it and say "bummer" to the ones not using ayatana indicators. 23:20 right 23:20 ochosi: yup - probably need to be more proactive at not gapping meetings by weeks then 23:20 JackFrost: that's ok if it's not in our default session anymore imo 23:20 Well, not great for upgrades at all, but.. 23:20 i agree 23:20 I'm happy for it to be next topic if others want to btw ochosi 23:21 flocculant: yeah, but you know, life... i just don't have enough time :/ 23:21 oh right 23:21 if you want to move on to sleep we can do it another time :) 23:21 I was meaning I'm in no hurry to #endmeeting 23:23 right, just wanted to make sure no-one else is 23:23 :) 23:23 since we're already 25mins over the scheduled time 23:24 well that's only some historical thing :) 23:25 when everyone is drained or gone and I'm here alone I'll end meeting :D 23:25 * ochosi goes to the loo to return and find out if anyone else is still awake 23:25 ochosi: if you've time now to 'say' things then go for it - if nothing else it gets minuted 23:26 Right, so I'll sync it, unless bluesabre says otherwise. 23:28 #topic blueprints status 23:29 #subtopic devel blueprint 23:29 so what i see there are some things that are stuck at packaging level 23:29 regarding elementary-xfce i think everything that needed to be done at source level has been done 23:29 it just needs the packaging updates to be carried out too 23:30 regarding parole, don't think that's going to happen this cycle (again) 23:30 too busy with xfce 4.14 23:30 should be blocked I guess 23:30 and pidgin, that depends on bluesabre's time, but tbh i'm sceptical as it would probably have to go through upstream 23:30 or postponed.. 23:30 :) 23:30 regarding xubuntu-core, JackFrost? 23:31 appstream could be low-hanging fruit for almost everyone, i personally know i don't have the time 23:32 the mate packaging things also seem a little stuck 23:33 gtk-theme-config is in progress, thunar custom actions is a little stuck (cause i'm afraid of not finding generic enough solutions without adding depends) 23:34 I'm here now 23:34 hi bluesabre 23:34 hi flocculant 23:34 welcome to the party :) 23:34 ochosi: I assume the Mate stuff is also waiting on others 23:34 flocculant: indeed, got moved to the mate packaging team in debian and died 23:35 :) 23:35 so some of that bp stuff is just not up to date then 23:35 normal enough :) 23:36 I'll try to make some updates to those soon 23:36 ochosi: as far as the core stuff goes - I think it only goes only the list because stubborn xubuntu 23:36 bluesabre: wasn't pointing fingers :( 23:36 flocculant: I have a menulibre release right around the corner, hoping you and others might be able to kick the tires 23:36 bluesabre: ofc 23:37 and if it fixes things - I'll try and reproduce ... 23:37 often I can't 23:38 bluesabre: i think something like a "release radar" would help 23:39 to know what'll come up soon 23:39 that could be some awesome page at dev.x.o 23:40 bluesabre: ACK syncing xfce4-indicator-plugin from Debian, perhaps breaking upgrades? 23:40 ochosi: like the qa one - which you can just type things to 23:40 JackFrost: yeah, let's go ahead with that 23:41 We can figure out how to minimize damages as we go 23:41 xfce4-power-manager (1.6.1-1) UNRELEASED is actually in experimental vcs. 23:42 what's the story with fonts? 23:43 people were getting exercised about that iirc 23:43 probably pending on my time 23:43 k 23:45 more on that bp? 23:46 flocculant: the fonts is related to the surprising tons of fonts they added to all flavors and main at the tail end of 17.10 23:46 yea I know 23:46 we had hoped to reduce that clutter 23:46 right 23:46 bluesabre: chances of pidgin stuff to happen this cycle..? 23:47 I know I trimmed a whole bunch out locally - then at some point I let and update in and they all came back 23:47 https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-indicator-plugin/2.3.3-1 23:48 * flocculant remembers now - I'd lost some xubuntu-foo with a ppa:purge and they came back then 23:48 ochosi: still at a maybe, but time is running out 23:48 that's why i'm asking :) 23:49 *point* 23:49 at this place - ~7 weeks to FF, maybe we could be knowing which we'll ignore 23:50 well not we - you all :p 23:50 right 23:50 Still not sure of the full code requirement, could be minutes, could be hours 23:50 There's got to be some reason that feature doesn't yet exist 23:51 it's gnome? 23:51 :p 23:52 maybe ask upstream before you pour hours into it? 23:52 yeah 23:53 Will reach out to see what the consensus is... no need to build a patch if upstream doesn't want it 23:55 an email to their ml or a ping in their channel may suffice 23:57 sure thing 23:57 #action bluesabre to reach out to pidgin devs regarding system themes 23:57 * meetingology bluesabre to reach out to pidgin devs regarding system themes 23:59 timeout bug on that bp is set wishlist 00:00 I guess dev.xo. ignores importance? 00:00 knome: ^^ 00:01 hmm... 00:02 importance on what specific work item? 00:02 well - I guess what I mean is if importance is wishlist, could be ignored 00:03 a bug 00:03 right... 00:03 i guess so 00:03 :) 00:03 :) 00:04 anything else from you bluesabre on the previous topics? 00:04 there were some packaging questions (dunno if you read the backlog) 00:04 otherwise we can also close the meeting 00:04 ochosi: not yet, haven't had a chance to catch up 00:04 :) 00:05 elementary-xfce we'll fix on the the package release 00:05 ochosi: I'll be sending you some icons I'm interested in pulling in 00:05 ready for xfpm 00:05 sure 00:05 ready for ind-plug 00:05 sounds good 00:06 anything else anybody needs from me? 00:06 bluesabre: not me :) 00:07 go eat :D 00:07 or sleep or whatever ;) 00:07 :D 00:07 already eating 00:07 bluesabre: quickly - not sure if you saw but iso's up for artful point release 00:08 flocculant: that's good 00:08 apparently so ;) 00:08 are they being released immediately or do we have a few days for spot checks? 00:09 thursday next 00:09 great 00:09