== Meeting information == * #xubuntu-devel Meeting, 17 Feb at 22:00 — 23:23 UTC * Full logs at [[http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2016/xubuntu-devel.2016-02-17-22.00.log.html]] == Meeting summary == === Open action items === The discussion about "Open action items" started at 22:02. * ''LINK:'' https://www.flickr.com/groups/ubuntustudiocreations/pool FWIW * ''LINK:'' https://wordpress.org/plugins/openid/ * ''ACTION:'' knome and branau to collaborate with setting up a wordpress instance for the wallpaper submissions by sunday, feb 21 === Updates and Announcements === The discussion about "Updates and Announcements" started at 22:34. * ''LINK:'' http://xubuntu.org/news/release/15-04/ * trusty point release tomorrow * knome moved a lot of the wiki pages to the new xubuntu wiki; the old ones are redirected correctly to both the wiki and the contributor docs * ''LINK:'' https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2016-February/011031.html * 2nd IRC testing session ran - not likely to run those again === Discussion items === The discussion about "Discussion items" started at 22:51. * '''USC replacement''' (22:54) * ''LINK:'' https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2016-February/004785.html * Mid March should be the the deadline for a decision regarding the USC replacement, taking in consideration the needed time to change the documentations and allow translators to work with it * ''LINK:'' http://appstream.ubuntu.com/xenial/universe/issues/index.html is the only bit I've seen that get's a hit from 'xub' * ''ACTION:'' pleia2 to schedule next meeting == Vote results == == Action items, by person == * branau * knome and branau to collaborate with setting up a wordpress instance for the wallpaper submissions by sunday, feb 21 * knome * knome and branau to collaborate with setting up a wordpress instance for the wallpaper submissions by sunday, feb 21 * pleia2 * pleia2 to schedule next meeting == Done items == * (none) == People present (lines said) == * knome (163) * flocculant (111) * pleia2 (82) * slickymaster (55) * bluesabre (44) * branau (23) * _Sponge (18) * krycek (10) * branau1 (9) * meetingology (9) * Nairwolf (5) * branau_ (3) * Guest79749 (2) * krytarik (1) * Unit193 (1) == Full Log == 22:00 #startmeeting 22:00 Meeting started Wed Feb 17 22:00:13 2016 UTC. The chair is slickymaster. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. 22:00 22:00 Available commands: action commands idea info link nick 22:00 Welcome all to the Xubuntu community meeting. The agenda is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings 22:00 Who's here for the meeting? 22:01 o/ 22:01 <_Sponge> o/ 22:02 o/ 22:02 o/ 22:02 \o 22:02 <_Sponge> I'm happy to volunteer to run the 16.04 Community Wallpaper contest, if anyone's interested. 22:02 o/ 22:02 o/ 22:02 #topic Open action items 22:03 Volunteers for running a 16.04 Community Wallpaper contest 22:03 so basically, here's where we are now: 22:03 knome, I think that is one of yours 22:03 bluesabre was seting up a webapp that would be used to handle the submissions 22:03 that's been set up, and i've worked with it a bit too, but... 22:03 <_Sponge> yeah ? 22:03 ...it's likely not what we want to use for submissions 22:03 x_x 22:04 what are the issues with it, knome? 22:04 so basically we'll need a new webapp, or we need to use something that is ready to use 22:04 <_Sponge> so it's broke ? 22:04 slickymaster, the biggest issues are that it doesn't really do what it is supposed to do, and there's a lot of overhead in the code 22:04 <_Sponge> flickr ? 22:05 flickr means the people submitting their images should have an account 22:05 <_Sponge> and ? 22:05 and it's not open source. 22:05 exactly 22:05 <_Sponge> most photographers do. 22:05 <_Sponge> mediagoblin ? 22:05 we aren't only looking for photographs, and we also are trying not to exclude people 22:06 the starting point with the webapp was that it would be accessible with a launchpad account 22:06 do we have a list of criteria for what we need? (I know we've talked about this a bunch of times) 22:06 licensing, preference for open source, etc 22:06 <_Sponge> yeah, but it's broke, right ? 22:06 which is something you pretty much need to contribute anything anyway 22:06 pleia2, for the webapp or the submissions? 22:06 knome: yes :) 22:06 yes to what? 22:06 they are one in the same 22:07 well 22:07 the webapp should support our criteria, or we should find something that does 22:07 i meant the submissions as in the images 22:07 but yeah, the webapp... 22:07 i'm happy if it's open source 22:07 <_Sponge> nme 22:07 if it can handle the voting, that's a bonus 22:07 <_Sponge> ** me too. 22:07 ubuntu uses flickr, I think ubuntu studio has been as well 22:08 the studio folks used flickr for theirs, but as knome pointed out it's not open source 22:08 Their last one was on flickr, yes. 22:08 https://www.flickr.com/groups/ubuntustudiocreations/pool FWIW 22:08 lubuntu do as well afaik 22:09 <_Sponge> Crumbs, 10 minutes in, and we've not changed anything, yet. 22:09 if we do flickr, then we might as well support all social media outlets - as long as we can access the submission somewhere... 22:09 <_Sponge> Xubuntu G+ ? 22:09 including google+, but not limited to 22:10 * _Sponge means the google community. 22:10 I'm going to draw the line there, using a bunch of services just makes it horrible 22:10 because we really don't want to lock in to any specific platform, especially if it's not controlled by us 22:10 <_Sponge> Who's in charge of the Xubuntu Gplus community ? 22:10 pleia2, i don't think that's optimal either. 22:10 either we use one proprietary, or we keep on track for writing our own 22:10 and i'm going to draw the line here - we won't use g+ 22:10 Something like that could be set up with WordPress pretty easliy 22:10 :) 22:11 _Sponge: a few or us have admin access, but the G+ has very poor image support these days, I don't think they even have the concept of licensing 22:11 and it's hard to collect for something like this 22:11 WordPress is open source :D 22:11 i believe that we should still write our own 22:11 knome: me too 22:11 +1 22:11 <_Sponge> yeah, do a wordpress :) 22:11 it would "only" need to support openid login (for launchpad), and uploads 22:11 knome you mean like completely custom? No frameworks period? 22:12 knome: that's fine - but it's almost b1 - how long do we wait? 22:12 frameworks are okay as long as they don't get in the way they did with the current one 22:12 which framework was used? 22:12 and will people be around right at the last minute to decide which we use 22:12 symfony2 22:12 * _Sponge wanders off to OSS bed 22:13 the problem was that bluesabre was the only one who really got familiar with it, and i would say even his level of familiarity wasn't very convincing 22:13 <_Sponge> night night 22:13 (sorry bluesabre!) 22:13 night _Sponge 22:13 night _Sponge 22:13 branau, what would you suggest? 22:13 cya _Sponge 22:13 flocculant, did raise a valid point, which is time 22:13 https://wordpress.org/plugins/openid/ 22:14 Looks like there's a WP plugin for openid logins 22:14 yeah, the xubuntu site certainly uses one (not sure which) 22:14 we are using that, but tbh, writing a wordpress plugin for the submissions itself sounds like a bigger job than creating the whole app from the scratch 22:14 I've done extensive work with WP and even done some custom plugin work for a few sites, so even if this plugin doesn't work, it shouldn't be too much work to get it up and running 22:14 knome: that's my worry too, but if branau wants to volunteer :) 22:14 pleia2, it's that one, plus some specific launchpad integration ones 22:15 knome: I think we'd run our own wordpress install for this though, not try to get the plugin accepted for xubuntu.org 22:15 pleia2, totally 22:15 we can even tear it down at the end and start new each cycle 22:15 pleia2: I'm happy to volunteer :D 22:15 I don't think we'd need a plugin for submissions though 22:15 branau, with what kind of schedule? 22:15 so it's not a long term maintenance problem, we can back up the photo submissions themselves somewhere static 22:15 A simple form should suffice. 22:16 would this require the user to have a login to wordpress? 22:16 (or openid) 22:16 and would they be able to review/adjust their submission? 22:17 i actually just read about the file uploads in wordpress, and the right way (tm) to do it... 22:17 that said, if it's not going to be long-term storage, i think we could just do with a simple form 22:18 without logging in 22:18 knome: I'm inclined to agree, but I also want it to be a decent experience for submitters, did it actually go through? are they on the list of nominations? 22:18 well, we likely want people to log in... 22:18 black hole submissions are not a good user experience 22:18 yes. 22:18 and no login means anybody can spam the site potentially 22:18 yep 22:18 with no way to block them 22:19 yep 22:19 branau1, did you drop out? what was the last comment you saw? 22:19 Sorry, I think I got disconnected a minute 22:19 4:15:51 PM - pleia2: […] o it's not a long term maintenance problem, we can back up the photo submissions themselves somewhere static 22:19 4:15:58 PM - branau: A simple form should suffice. 22:19 4:16:38 PM - branau: knome: Depends on when we need this. I work 9-5 usually so in the afternoons I'm generally free. 22:19 4:16:42 PM - branau: Weekends I have tons of free time 22:19 That's the last I saw 22:19 ok, i'll PM you what you missed 22:19 Thanks 22:19 #thirdWorldCountryInternet 22:20 ok, done 22:20 so my thought here is 22:20 the user logs in to wordpress using their launchpad account 22:20 along with the requirements we just set 22:21 now, to do things right, and since the user is logged in, they should use the built-in media manager in a way 22:21 which makes them agree to terms and licensing for the submission 22:21 but potentially extended in a way that allows them to select license/attribution/etc 22:21 in other words - a custom form that uses the media uploader 22:22 * pleia2 nods 22:22 Sounds good 22:22 once that's done, they should see their submissions - but only their submissions - on the admin - on another custom view 22:22 and edit them 22:22 again, if possible, via the built-in media manager 22:22 can I just say something here 22:22 yes 22:22 Also, UIF is March 10th. 22:22 Doesn't sound too tough to set up, I'd be willing to bet that half of these can be managed via plugins 22:23 krycek, these aren't default wallpapers, no need for UIF 22:23 branau, that's the problem; the plugins are designed to do what they do, not this custom case 22:23 it is now almost week 18 of 26, so we need to see this all up - then advertise it - hope to get people send things in - choose which one(s) we use - get that in the seed 22:23 flocculant, ack. 22:23 knome: Plugins can be modded :D 22:24 I'd be a lot more interested if we were in week 8 22:24 flocculant, if we start taking submissions on week 20, we can allow them for 2-4 weeks and still have time to drop them in the seed 22:24 flocculant, i know that isn't ideal, and my target is ASAP 22:24 flocculant: indeed, it's unfortunate that it's so late for an LTS 22:24 but here we are 22:24 maybe it'll make it more exciting :D 22:25 knome: right - so 2 weeks to get it all set up - and hope we get submissions 22:25 flocculant, if we don't, then there will be no community wallpaper package 22:25 :P 22:25 branau, true, but all that makes me think that it would be simpler to create our own 22:25 * flocculant just shakes his head - we should have had this discussion properly weeks ago 22:26 flocculant, actually, we did, then bluesabre took his time and the path didn't lead anywhere 22:26 not that I'm blaming anyone - I'm just as capable of shouting that we should be sorting something out 22:26 flocculant, but as pleia2 said; here we are 22:26 knome: ack - I know that :) 22:26 (and i'm not blaming bluesabre either) 22:26 :) 22:27 branau, so again about the schedule... do you think you could have a PoC setup for us this weekend? 22:27 branau: no pressure ;) 22:27 knome: PoC? 22:27 proof of concept 22:27 proof of concept 22:27 * knome high-fives pleia2 22:27 * flocculant types slower ... 22:27 Ah, you mean like a demo? 22:27 branau: yeah 22:27 yea 22:27 well, like a demo that can be iterated to the final version 22:27 knome, will you look into the WP plugins possibility with branau? 22:28 my point of view is that we should write our own, so i'm kind of reluctant to do that ;) 22:28 but i can help with it 22:28 Sure, where exactly would I host it? 22:28 I have a personal website 22:28 With unlimited storage 22:28 that works if you are willing to use that 22:28 might start with a personal site, we'll move to our community server when it's ready for production 22:28 Yeah, it won't be a problem 22:28 ^ what pleia2 said 22:29 and i can test it on my host once it's in a point where we start thinking of moving it to make sure it can be moved 22:29 * pleia2 thumbs up 22:29 Cool, if anyone else wants to contribute to it then I can get ftp credentials set up 22:29 branau, if you can be around in this channel, that would be *very* good 22:29 branau, i would actually prefer if we had a repository for it 22:29 knome: I usually am, just not actively. I have it open 22:29 can I action this knome, so we can move along? 22:29 i'm fine with bzr in launchpad or git in github 22:29 #action knome and branau will look into the WP plugins possibility with branau? 22:29 * meetingology knome and branau will look into the WP plugins possibility with branau? 22:30 knome: I was going to set it up in git, have a preferred VCS? 22:30 branau, i have a github account (knomepasi), that works 22:30 can we proceed? 22:30 And, Launchpad does git too now. 22:30 we tend to use bzr on launchpad, but it's not a blocker (I can use github too) 22:30 let me think for 30secs 22:30 krycek: indeed 22:31 and launchpad is open source, github is not ;) 22:31 heh 22:31 knome: I'm much more familiar with git, but I can set it up however you prefer 22:31 * pleia2 stops being a problem 22:31 branau, git works, no problem for me 22:31 yeah, git's fine 22:31 branau, so, to summarize: 22:31 let's be in touch (daily, if possible) 22:31 and if you need something, feel free to ping me 22:32 from finding a plugin to writing code 22:32 and from the webapp requirements to whatnot 22:32 #undo 22:32 Removing item from minutes: ACTION 22:32 let's set sunday night as the deadline for a PoC that is functional in some way 22:33 Got disconnected again 22:33 #action knome and branau to collaborate with setting up a wordpress instance for the wallpaper submissions by sunday, feb 21 22:33 * meetingology knome and branau to collaborate with setting up a wordpress instance for the wallpaper submissions by sunday, feb 21 22:33 Last I saw was let's stay in touch daily 22:33 ok, i'll paste you in PM again 22:33 Thanks 22:34 ok, moving on 22:34 #topic Updates and Announcements 22:34 Vivid was EOL on February 4th <- https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2016-January/000203.html 22:34 knome: what is a PoC ? 22:34 Nairwolf, proof of concept 22:34 almost two weeks now 22:34 ok 22:34 is there something we didn't cover with the EOL stuff? 22:34 branau: in which language you want to write this plugin ? Maybe we can talk about that later 22:35 Nairwolf, wordpress, so php 22:35 knome: we didn't website it in the end 22:35 Nairwolf: WP is strictly PHP as far as I know 22:35 I think that eveyrthing was taken care of, knome 22:35 ok, so, not for me 22:35 flocculant, as a blog article, yeah 22:35 thanks 22:35 but i've removed vivid from the support page 22:35 and from the docs startpage 22:35 yep 22:35 All PPA packages for vivid are gone too. 22:36 http://xubuntu.org/news/release/15-04/ 22:36 that's also up-to-date (since the beginning) 22:36 i think we're fine 22:37 anyone else has any update or announcement? 22:37 trusty point release tomorrow 22:38 #info trusty point release tomorrow 22:38 there's still time for some late testing 22:38 just 22:38 #info knome moved a lot of the wiki pages to the new xubuntu wiki; the old ones are redirected correctly to both the wiki and the contributor docs 22:38 slickymaster: I'll be randomly marking it ready at some point tomorrow - after another rebuild lands 22:39 knome: Got a template page for the meetings yet? 22:39 yeah, saw your ping to ochosi and bluesabre re that earlier today flocculant 22:39 krycek, no, and we only get the meeting output in moin markup 22:39 so let's keep the meetings archive in the moin wiki for now... 22:40 is that an update, announcement or just offtopic :p 22:40 a mixed of the three 22:41 * mix 22:41 mixed 22:42 anything else? 22:42 anything I've done is on tracker afaik 22:42 knome: anything we should talk about? 22:42 oh 22:42 Two article series to lead to the 16.04 LTS release 22:42 https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2016-February/011031.html 22:42 this is a thing 22:43 yes, it's a thing 22:43 so if anyone not pitching in wants to, please do 22:43 #info 2nd IRC testing session ran - not likely to run those again 22:43 totally 22:43 basially, the media manager stuff is almost taken care of except getting the answers from people 22:43 * pleia2 nods 22:43 for the other series (small details, faq-like series), we will likely need more ideas to choose from and writers too 22:44 as the mail says, the planning happens at http://wiki.xubuntu.org/website/series 22:44 and again, if any questions, i'm available here or via email 22:45 flocculant: sorry to hear the testing sessions didn't work out, but thank you for trying them 22:45 yup 22:45 more or less concurs with testing we get done tbh 22:45 :\ 22:46 *shrug* 22:46 i think it's great that we did the sessions 22:46 agreed 22:46 and tbh, if there is any motivation left, we should probably try to organize more later 22:46 not necessarily only for testing 22:46 most people aren't interested until they install a new version and something doesn't work for them - nothing new there :) 22:47 tbh people keep telling me they want videos, which breaks my brain, but I guess I understand 22:47 knome: not much of that tbh 22:47 pleia2: and absolutely none of that :) 22:47 we can do videos, but i don't know how they will help... 22:47 maybe next cycle we find someone who is not camera-shy to do that :) 22:47 they will just point to boring stuff (sorry flocculant, but i guess you agree) 22:47 i mean, meh 22:48 yup totally 22:48 testing *is* not exciting 22:48 knome: the point is that people want to see a video of someone clicking through and explaining step by step how to do it, on a video 22:48 can we move along? 22:48 a video doesn't make it exciting 22:48 knome: I hate videos, so I don't understand it, but it's totally a Thing 22:48 flocculant, maybe screencasts with no voice but overlays 22:48 slickymaster: I thought we were in discussions without the #discussion 22:48 anyway, just tossing that out there, as feedback from the social medias 22:48 lol 22:48 indeed 22:49 knome: possibly - but who'd want to watch someone adding a ppa for 5 minutes when it takes 30 seconds to read the words 22:49 pleia2: ^^ 22:49 #discussion 22:49 that worked then :p 22:50 flocculant, those who like the videos... 22:50 flocculant: the videos should probably be edited to skip through that kind of thing :) 22:50 pleia2: why? That's what it would be about 22:50 there are people in the world who are good at this stuff 22:50 hi, I just installed xubuntu and updated etc etc, all was fine until I rebooted and the top panel/taskbar has disappeared...can anyone help me sort it out please? 22:50 Guest79749: #xubuntu 22:50 Guest79749: we're having a meeting right now 22:50 ok ta, soz 22:51 #topic Discussion items 22:51 pleia2: there might be - but there appear to be 3 or 4 people active in *test* - not sure any of us are them :) 22:52 flocculant: fair enough, just tossing it out there 22:52 yea - understand that :) 22:52 it is a dry subject :) 22:52 install this - did it work? 22:52 :) 22:53 I know it's not in the agenda but there's something I'd like to ask which is what are our plans regarding USC replacement? 22:53 slickymaster: yeah, I was just asking about that before our meeting 22:53 pleia2: I'd love to have so many people testing that I had to manage it - as everyone should know 22:53 I'm asking this mainly concerning about the -docs side of this, because there will be a need for a lot of rewording 22:54 perhaps subtopic it 22:54 Ubuntu is making progress on using gnome-software as a replacement 22:54 slickymaster, no idea yet for the final decision 22:54 I haz quote 22:54 I think our decision needs to be gnome-software vs. synaptic 22:54 #subtopic USC replacement 22:54 pleia2, likely 22:55 [18:14:35] one, when will gnome-software actually replace software center? 22:55 [18:14:57] and two, I'm upstream + debian maintainer for 2 packages, can I sync them with ubuntu (with the appdata changes) even after the debian import freeze tomorrow? 22:55 [18:15:13] within days and yes 22:55 from today: 22:55 https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2016-February/004785.html 22:55 that's about fixing packages related to it 22:55 but work is being done 22:55 pleia2: yep - catalyst for the above quote from Laney 22:55 * pleia2 nods 22:56 and re USC or not 22:56 I think USC makes no sense for us 22:56 tbh, never did really :\ 22:56 but it worked so long as Ubuntu used it too 22:56 if USC has been more or less unmaintained for *a while* - would using it for 3 years unmaintained be that much of a problem for us? 22:57 I think so 22:57 slickymaster, what's your take on the deadline for the decision to make sure we have time to change the docs and allow translators to work with it? 22:57 until now vital problems have been fixed, with Ubuntu really pulling support we wouldn't even get that 22:57 mid march at the most knome 22:58 I also think there's a problem with the dependencies (python?) but I'm not positive 22:58 slickymaster, can you info that so it gets specifically saved to the minutes 22:58 pleia2: currently g-s still fails to see anything for me - so until it does - hard to decide 22:58 what exactly knome? the deadline? 22:58 on the other hand - I never use USC and am extremely unlikely to use g-s 22:58 flocculant: yeah, it may mean we go back to synaptic 22:58 slickymaster, yes 22:58 flocculant: same 22:58 same here 22:58 but we are not the regular users 22:58 knome: right 22:58 I use synaptic when I'm not sure of a package 22:59 knome: ack 22:59 when i'm not sure, i use apt-cache search 22:59 D: 22:59 yeah, I only use the cli 22:59 and synaptic afaik doesn't worrk with those bought things 22:59 no idea 22:59 I don't know if bought things are much of a thing anymore 22:59 though we can just tell that the people who have bought things they should install g-s 22:59 And there's translations to keep in mind. 22:59 right - that's probably the issue we need to worry about more for 'users' 23:00 pleia2: ok - really not sure - never did that :) 23:00 i don't think it's a majority of our users anyway 23:00 #info Mid March should be the the deadline for a decision regarding the USC replacement, taking in consideration the needed time to change the documentations and allow translators to work with it 23:00 I guess as a fallback position I would be happy with synaptic - plus a wiki page of some sort > if you need the things USC had - install g0s 23:00 slickymaster, great! 23:01 flocculant, wiki o.O? 23:01 flocculant, you don't mean docs? 23:01 :P 23:01 flocculant: +1 23:01 knome: whatever we want to call it - you know what I mean 23:01 yeah, that falls more on the -docs that on a wiki page 23:01 missing :) 23:01 flocculant, i don't ;) 23:02 knome: ok - so as long as it is written somewhere somehow - I am happy with that fallback position 23:02 hehe 23:02 great 23:02 also 23:03 who is assigned to tracking gnome-software progression in ubuntu so we can intelligently make this decision in a few weeks? 23:03 while slickymaster is happy with mid-march for docs we need input from bluesabre or whoever - likely that date is sooner 23:03 i don't think anybody can be assigned to make sure we make intelligent decisions 23:03 hey all 23:03 there he is 23:03 bluesabre: hi there :) 23:03 sooner the better flocculant 23:03 hey bluesabre (speaking of the devil) 23:03 trusty.4 +1 from me 23:03 of course, everything is ASAP 23:03 if thats the question 23:03 bluesabre: thanks :D 23:04 no it isn't :D 23:04 :D 23:04 or rather was earlier :) 23:04 USC bluesabre 23:04 what's your take 23:04 ? 23:04 bluesabre: basically slickymaster is happy with mid-march for docs if we use it - what about you? 23:04 or in other words, when do we need the decision about the default package manager for 16.04 from your point of view 23:04 ok 23:05 too early to tell since it's still not functional, right? 23:05 regardless what the decision is 23:05 but overall, if its good to go soon, I'll be +1 23:05 eg. when do you need to know how to change the seed 23:05 bluesabre: don't know about you - but it still shows nothing not installed 23:05 and isn't good at showing what I do have 23:05